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Well, if you're all having fun, my first advice is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
My other thought is...there's plenty of monsters that don't attack Armor Class, although I can't think of any off the top of my head. These could function as excellent "support" monsters.
My final thought is, worst comes to worst, have a gentleman's agreement to sell your armor for a higher value than normal and use the extra cash to kit up with more interesting stuff (potions, scrolls, supplies, etc.)
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Incorporeals...
*cackles madly*
The heavier armors all have Armor Check Penalties (minuses to skills like Stealth and Climb and Acrobatics) as well as slowing characters' speed. You might check and see if those are being applied correctly.
Also, those armors have a maximum dexterity they'll stack with, so they may be double-dipping on armor bonuses. Full plate, for example, applies a -6 to Dexterity- and Strength-based skills and has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +1, so if your barbarian has a Dexterity over 13, they can't apply their full Dexterity bonus along with the armor bonus.
What Lucky7 said, have fun with it.
However, minor nitpick, Barbs aren't proficient in Tower Shields. And Full Plate, you should be higher level before that's available, but if you're enjoying it, just enjoy it!
What Lucky7 said, have fun with it.
However, minor nitpick, Barbs aren't proficient in Tower Shields. And Full Plate, you should be higher level before that's available, but if you're enjoying it, just enjoy it!
That's not really minor, tower shields have a -10 penalty if non proficient.
AC doesn't scale as well as attacks as you level. In 2-4 levels time, enemies should have no problems hitting those ACs.
Random aside: how did you buy full plate as a first level character?
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If your GM feels sadistic, he can always try the Rust Monster.
Last I checked, you're still vulnerable to fire, magic missile, shocking grasp, traps (some), touch attacks, sleep....
How is the barb proficient?
Other than that i see no actual problem here.
Yeah, a fighter with dex 12 full plate and tower shield has AC of 24 and can obtain this by lv2 most often, sometimes lv1. If he does, his attacks suffer some from the -2 that the tower shield gives to your attack rolls, and their damage is less cause of using a one handed weapon.
And like other's have mentioned, after the initial AC boost of buying good armor, armor goes up slowly and always costing gold or feats. Low levels are just wonky and the game is more normal at lv3+, lv 2 and especially 1 are really swingy, with how good you are dependent on your gear and lucky dice more than anything.
So I'd say he should be more happy that he doesn't have the barb with reach and combat reflexes that kills all the goblins before they even reach the barb.
If characters aren't proficient in the armor or shields they employ, the armor check penalty on their equipment also applies to any attack rolls they make.
That Barbarian is not proficient with either Full Plate or Tower Shields without spending feats, which means he has a whopping -16 to his attack rolls. Which means even with a 1st level Barbarian with 20 Strength and Rage, and even a Masterwork Weapon and Weapon Focus, his attack rolls are still at a whopping -6, which means even with rolling a 19, he's hitting AC 13 at best. That's not even including the flat -2 attack penalty that Tower Shields employ, which makes this even worse.
Same argument goes for the Cleric. Granted, Clerics can contribute with spells and Channel Energy, it's only 1st level, which means both their spell repertoire and their Channel Energy uses are extremely limited.
Sure, their AC is high, but they don't do jack all for contributing to combat because of it, which means they're playing turtle tactics, something which a smart enemy/creature can learn to ignore after a round or two without repercussions from the turtlers.
I say the GM lets them roll with it. Have the bad guys get smarter and realize that their increased armor only means they can be dealt with last, because they otherwise pose no significant threat. When the casters are the first to die because the other "tanks" aren't keeping the threat, they'll learn their lesson, that turtling is just a bad thing to do in a game like Pathfinder.
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We can help!
The OP said "an armored hulk barbarian."
The SRD says "An armored hulk gains proficiency in heavy armor."
Using the level 1 feat of Tower Shield Proficiency, the character now takes a -2 penalty to attack in this setup of Full Plate + Tower Shield.
Eventually, the lack of one feat and uncanny dodge and trapfinding that are lost with the archetype may or may not make a difference. Given the AC of this character, losing uncanny dodge is likely not an issue.
The party listed probably does not have trapfinding anymore, but that isn't usually a make-or-break ability.
You real problems will come when you try to Climb/Swim/Ride/whatever in that setup. But with the party getting potions/scrolls/spells eventually [or temporarily sticking the gear in a Handy Haversack], this is not an insurmountable set of problems.
Edit: changed "NO penalties" to "a -2 penalty" per subsequent info from ChessPwn below [and re-checking the book and forum].
And as for what you should do, the answer is enjoy the adventure with a couple of characters being unhittable. Intelligent attackers in a level or 2 will quickly decide to pick on other party members rather than attack the metal can (assuming they can indeed get to the squishiest members).
The OP said "an armored hulk barbarian."
The SRD says "An armored hulk gains proficiency in heavy armor."Using the level 1 feat of Tower Shield Proficiency, the character now takes NO penalties to attack in this setup of Full Plate + Tower Shield.
No, you still take the -2 to your attacks for using a tower shield.
High AC via armor is not as effective as it looks outside early levels. Creatures and spells that target the touch AC easily pierce it (Something every DM that has put a dragon or giant up against a gunslinger or alchemist has learned.) Once your party starts seeing enemies that use Scorching Ray, Acid Arrow, or Corrosive Touch your heavily armored allies will suddenly start feeling pain.
Incorporeal and ooze enemies are a couple example of creatures that often target touch instead of normal AC. One shadow with its strength draining touch and suddenly the barbarian will he horrified as his strength becomes less than the party's witch.
As Swarms with Evasion hinted, swarm creatures also get around AC. On their turn, they automatically hit any creature in their squares and no amount of AC can prevent this. (And just to make things worse, swarms take only partial or no damage from weapons.)
Additionally, high AC does nothing to help saves. In fact, heavy armor likely to hurt you with reflex saves. Breath weapons, spells, and magical traps usually force victims to make saves instead of relying on AC. At low levels, there are few things a barbarian hates more that a spell caster opening with Color Spray. Also, enemies that explode on death are devastating to him and the cleric since reflex is probably weak for both of them. (Remember full plate limits Dex bonus to at most +1 to their reflex saves.)
And last but not least Combat Maneuvers. Intelligent enemies can see that a direct fight does nothing. PC's tend to have a CMD about equal to a lot of CR appropriate larger monsters have as their CMB. Tripping or bull rushing them into a hazard are very valid techniques.
Edit: Also that's part of the reason heavy armor is supposed to be so expensive is to prevent 1st levels from usually having it that early.
(Remember full plate limits Dex bonus to at most +1 to their reflex saves.)
This isn't true, max dex on armor is only for AC, and nothing else. If you are in full plate with +5 dex you still get all 5 to your reflex save even though you only get +1 to your AC.
(Remember full plate limits Dex bonus to at most +1 to their reflex saves.)This isn't true, max dex on armor is only for AC, and nothing else. If you are in full plate with +5 dex you still get all 5 to your reflex save even though you only get +1 to your AC.
Oops, you're right. I misread that one.
Tower Shield Proficiency says:
"Benefit: When you use a tower shield, the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength and Dexterity-based skills."
After having read the feat and the Table: Armor and Shields, I don't see any -2 for Shield, Tower.
However, in verifying ChessPwn's post above, I now see under the actual description linked in the table for Shield, Tower:
"When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance."
Also smart enemies could be making use of their (likely) 30' movement + ranged/spell attack to stay out of your 20' movement with heavy/medium armor.
If you're having fun, just leave it be. Armor class doesn't scale particularly well in the long run and "the PCs are crazy badass" is a fine thing to run with for a while, just change it up when things get old.
So rather than completely changing everything so the PCs are challenged everywhere just pepper in a handful of fights where enemies target the PC's saving throws or Touch AC for variety. Any time the PCs are ahead on WBL you can bring them back to normal by just slowing the drip feed of loot for a bit.
He could have you and your compatriots captured and your stuff stolen. I've done that to "fix errors" in my early days.
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Rust Monster.
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He could have you and your compatriots captured and your stuff stolen. I've done that to "fix errors" in my early days.
Rust Monster.
Careful. Outright taking away (or even destroying!) the most expensive things they own by far might just tilt someone pretty hard. It almost reminds me of those wicked level-down traps you see in JRPGs.
I suggest you don't worry too much and move on. Armor Class is really, really easy to stat early on. Super front loaded. Pouring all of your gold into AC makes you unhittable at first, but each boost after that requires magical enhancements with exponentially growing prices. The scaling of monster accuracy by CR will eventually catch up.
Until then, a gentle sprinkling of hazard will do well to remind the barbarian that he is not invulnerable. (That's a different archetype altogether.) Touch attacks, effects with reflex and will saves, etc. All the stuff people have suggested upthread. Just make sure to give him plenty of encounters that allow the player to enjoy that super-tank fantasy that they clearly desire.
Also smart enemies could be making use of their (likely) 30' movement + ranged/spell attack to stay out of your 20' movement with heavy/medium armor.
At 1st level, the move restriction on heavy armor will stick you at 20 feet [though Rattleingpython does have some good points about avoiding that].
At 2nd level, using Armored Swiftness (Ex), an armored hulk moves at 25 feet instead of 20.At 5th level, using Improved Armored Swiftness (Ex), an armored hulk moves at 30 or 40 feet instead of the 20 or 30 racial norm, even in heavy armor.
Tower Shield Proficiency says:
"Benefit: When you use a tower shield, the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength and Dexterity-based skills."After having read the feat and the Table: Armor and Shields, I don't see any -2 for Shield, Tower.
However, in verifying ChessPwn's post above, I now see under the actual description linked in the table for Shield, Tower:
"When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance."
It's in the tower shield entry
Edit: 'When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance.'