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Pathfinder: Kingmaker Announced!


Paizo Licensed Products General Discussion

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Paizo Employee Director of Licensing

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atheral wrote:
As far as not using iconics, isn't that the iconic barbarian on the left of the header image on the website?

BOOM. At this point Amiri will be a possible companion. New characters are being made to fill out the party. More on Iconics to come . . .

Paizo Employee Director of Licensing

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CorvusMask wrote:
So this is confusing .-. I thought that Obsidian was doing something Pathfinder related, if they aren't thats disappointing. Second thing to be confused about is that whats up with new studio composed of veterans from random not that notable games? Like Avellone is most notable of bunch, but apparently their game is adaption of AP instead of original touch so I don't think his writing style will come through as much as normally?

While Owlcat may be newer, it's members, and the company it is a part of have had a lot of video game success. Avellone's writing style will come through. It will also definitely have the Pathfinder feel.


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This is good. Nival made some of my fav games back in the day, and a lot of staff are Russian, so the Slavic feel of the setting won't be overlooked. Their portfolio is mostly strategy games with some RPG elements, though good - I am not sure how well they will translate their skill in into RPG.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Most people who know me here, know me for my Kingmaker expansions. I ran a Kingmaker game for roughly 6 years. We finished book 5. However due to personal reasons my party split up before we could play book 6.

As a longtime Kingmaker GM, I idly wondered what it would be like to be a player in such a campaign. I even dreamed of a CRPG where I could create a character that began running a Kingdom alongside the Pathfinder iconics.

This is an actual dream come true, I'm so excited about this game.

Now who do I talk to about getting Hargulka's Monster Kingdom into the game?


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I'm definitely... well cautiously optimistic would be overstating it. Anxious?
I mean, a Pathfinder CRPG is basically everything I want in a game, but I have so many concerns with this.

For one, what is this fixation with the River Kingdoms? IMO it's one of the least interesting parts of the setting. One of the main complaints I heard about Pathfinder Online from non-PF people was that it was bland/generic (and part of that was gameplay, but I definitely saw people saying they felt like the art direction/environment felt like nothing in particular). This is a game that out of the gate is going to face comparisons to Baldur's Gate and Pillars of Eternity, so why is it based on one of the most generically-Eurofantasy, non-story-driven campaigns?

I'm also not a fan of RTwP, although I imagine I'm in the minority. It was a clunky system in the early 2000s and it's a clunky system now - and games like Divinity: Original Sin show that turn-based RPGs can succeed in the 2010s. It's especially weird given that these are ex-Nival devs - a company that was mostly known (at least in my circles) for turn-based games like Silent Storm and HoMMV.

Lastly, the art so far is just... huh? That main promo image they have on the website - if it weren't for Amiri and that goblin in the shadows, I wouldn't have known it was anything to do with Pathfinder. Obviously there are only a handful of images so far, but the first thing I noticed was "boy there are not a lot of women here" followed by "wow EVERYONE is white." Literally, in the 2 promo illustrations (and 1 character customization concept art) we have so far, there is exactly 1 black man, and 0 black women and nonblack POC. And with Russian devs, I can't help but worry about whether the game will reflect Pathfinder's embracing of the queer community. Jessica Price reassured me on Twitter that "[Paizo is] working closely with them to make sure it's true to our company values" and I mean, I trust her, but... show me, because what we've got so far doesn't look much like Golarion to me.

Hopefully I'm wrong and it'll be great.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Michael Kenway wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Looks good hope it gets a console release.
At this point it will be for PC. May be expanded.

Please do. I would by this in a heartbeat.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Michael Kenway wrote:
Michael Monn wrote:
I hope it gets a Linux release.
Undecided

Let me throw in another voice for a Linux release.

And, if it's available on all of Windows, Mac, and Linux, in a few years you can get it in a Humble Indy Bundle and give it a second life.


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Cautiously excited about this - the Kingmaker campaign I ran is near and dear to the hearts of all of my friends, and the chance to recreate some of their characters in the game would be awesome. Curious to see what character customization is like.

Since this obviously shares some blood with NWN, I'm also very curious what custom content will look like. I'm hoping that modding/customizing will be possible and not too hard. At the very least, one of my friends is going to want me to make a mod for Happs Bydon to be a recruitable character - he's the father of her character's children, after all. XD

Hopefully the devs recognize the amount of additional lifespan player-created content could give this game, at least.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This looks cool. I hope its better than Tides of Numenera.

EDIT: Also, awesome that its been under wraps for so long as there is going to be a demo at Paizo Con.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I'm certainly looking forward to this, it's long overdue for there to be a PF CRPG. However, not a fan of the pausible RT. The Kickstarter cRPG renaissance has shown there's a good market out there for turn based. Even the best of the pausible RT games fall in the middle of the pack IMO.

That being said, i'm sure I'll buy the game, but it might not be top of my list to play for a while.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I'm also curious how they'll implement the Kingdom making rules. Even with the revised rules from Ultimate Campaign, I found that it was quickly too easy for the PC's kingdom to make any check.


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Michael Kenway wrote:
Armenius wrote:
Kingmaker? Ehhh, If it's not real time with pause or has co-op I'll get it otherwise I'll pass (which really means I'll only guy one copy because my girlfriend will get it either way)
It will be real-time with pause. No finalized decision on co-op.

This really kills my interest. I've never seen that system work period since it was created for Darklands. It always made in-combat movement effectively non-existent. It doesn't have any actual benefit to merit losing movement working either.

Whenever people praise Darklands, BG, PST or NWN it's never the combat that is praised (encounter design yes, combat no).


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I'm still willing to give this a go for the fact I need a fix while I'm between actual tabletop sessions.

Developer, Owlcat Games

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Most people who know me here, know me for my Kingmaker expansions. I ran a Kingmaker game for roughly 6 years. We finished book 5. However due to personal reasons my party split up before we could play book 6.

As a longtime Kingmaker GM, I idly wondered what it would be like to be a player in such a campaign. I even dreamed of a CRPG where I could create a character that began running a Kingdom alongside the Pathfinder iconics.

This is an actual dream come true, I'm so excited about this game.

Now who do I talk to about getting Hargulka's Monster Kingdom into the game?

One of the developers here. I can't tell you much about the actual game because MARKETING, but what I wanted to tell you is:

One, we have several tabletop Kingmaker campaigns running in the office, at various stages of the AP.
Two, the DMs, myself included, did read Paizo forums in general and your conversions in particular and incorporated the ideas into their games.
And three, your conversions were AWESOME and thank you for your work!

As for what, if anything, from your work has found its way into the CRPG - well I guess you'll have to wait and see.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So anyhoo, interesting that they use troll design from bestiary 1 cover instead of the more boar like design you see more often in most pathfinder material these days .-. Or was that design used in kingmaker's art as well?

Also, interested in knowing how faithful it is to ap. Like, I'm currently playing in the kingmaker campaign so I don't know much about it, but like is game gonna include everything from ap, only ap content, new content and ap content and does it include anything from material related to Stolen Lands/River Kingdoms/Brevoy/Kingmaker? Like, for example, song of silver has bonus npcs for old aps including kingmaker, so I would assume that npc wouldn't make appearance in this one since I doubt everything tangetially related would be adapted into this?(though if you guys add new serial killer npc to the game, that'd be waste since song of silver has that covered already xD)

Silver Crusade

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Cotoff wrote:


One of the developers here. I can't tell you much about the actual game because MARKETING, but what I wanted to tell you is:
One, we have several tabletop Kingmaker campaigns running in the office, at various stages of the AP.
Two, the DMs, myself included, did read Paizo forums in general and your conversions in particular and incorporated the ideas into their games.
And three, your conversions were AWESOME and thank you for your work!

As for what, if anything, from your work has found its way into the CRPG - well I guess you'll have to wait and see.

Great to see you here !

And glad you guys play Pathfinder. :)
But please tell us why there will be no turn-based combat ?
When you play the Pen&Paper game you see how it works and it is only the natural decision to use it instead of real-time with pause.

Look at Divinity:Original Sin 1+2 ! That's the way to go. The turn-based combat, the interaction with the world and manipulation of it. (i.e. breaking a barrel with oil, set the oil on fire, then throw an enemy into it.) The dialog with NPCs and of course the game master mode.

Don't copy it but use it as an inspiration how to do it good and right !


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worldhopper wrote:
And with Russian devs, I can't help but worry about whether the game will reflect Pathfinder's embracing of the queer community. Jessica Price reassured me on Twitter that "[Paizo is] working closely with them to make sure it's true to our company values" and I mean, I trust her, but... show me, because what we've got so far doesn't look much...

So... is casual racism in suspecting specific people of homophobia just because they are Russians OK these days? Flagged your post to check.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CyberMephit wrote:
worldhopper wrote:
And with Russian devs, I can't help but worry about whether the game will reflect Pathfinder's embracing of the queer community. Jessica Price reassured me on Twitter that "[Paizo is] working closely with them to make sure it's true to our company values" and I mean, I trust her, but... show me, because what we've got so far doesn't look much...
So... is casual racism in suspecting specific people of homophobia just because they are Russians OK these days? Flagged your post to check.

"Soviet government is homophobic" and "Soviets overwhelmingly support and approve of their government" are facts.


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CyberMephit wrote:
worldhopper wrote:
And with Russian devs, I can't help but worry about whether the game will reflect Pathfinder's embracing of the queer community. Jessica Price reassured me on Twitter that "[Paizo is] working closely with them to make sure it's true to our company values" and I mean, I trust her, but... show me, because what we've got so far doesn't look much...
So... is casual racism in suspecting specific people of homophobia just because they are Russians OK these days? Flagged your post to check.

No, I was more concerned about whether there were actual potential legal issues with including LGBT representation, given Russia's propaganda laws. Wasn't the Overwatch holiday comic banned there over the Tracer reveal?

I don't actually know if that even applies to games developed in Russia for other markets or only games released in the Russian market, but it was a thought that came to mind.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
archmagi1 wrote:

This looks cool. I hope its better than Tides of Numenera.

EDIT: Also, awesome that its been under wraps for so long as there is going to be a demo at Paizo Con.

Hey, Tides of Numenera was great xD Unless you meant you want it to be even better game then, sure yeah :D

And yeah, gotta agree that I would prefer turn based combat.

ALSO, speaking of iconics, is that halfling Lem with blue cloak instead of red one or just halfling who looks suspiciously similar to Lem?


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Quote:

No, I was more concerned about whether there were actual potential legal issues with including LGBT representation, given Russia's propaganda laws. Wasn't the Overwatch holiday comic banned there over the Tracer reveal?

I don't actually know if that even applies to games developed in Russia for other markets or only games released in the Russian market, but it was a thought that came to mind.

Cheers, actually I wasn't aware of the Overwatch story and turns out the legislation has gotten worse just in recent years. The game likely won't be out for until after the next election though so anything's possible.

And the thing to keep in mind about the Overwatch story is that only the Russian-language version was banned, content in foreign languages was still available. So I think there are legal hoops which can be jumped - e.g. it's entirely possible that queer content will be cut out from the Russian release but not the international one. And the final product probably won't carry a 'made in Russia' label because I think it's decided by the publisher, so it will probably count as imported and localized. I believe this may have been the HoMM V publishing model.

Developer, Owlcat Games

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Mythrael wrote:


But please tell us why there will be no turn-based combat ?
When you play the Pen&Paper game you see how it works and it is only the natural decision to use it instead of real-time with pause.

I can tell you that we had long, heated discussions on the merits of both approaches, with team members arguing and even switching sides multiple times. We made a decision to go with real-time in the end, and rest assured we didn't make it lightly.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cotoff wrote:
Mythrael wrote:


But please tell us why there will be no turn-based combat ?
When you play the Pen&Paper game you see how it works and it is only the natural decision to use it instead of real-time with pause.
I can tell you that we had long, heated discussions on the merits of both approaches, with team members arguing and even switching sides multiple times. We made a decision to go with real-time in the end, and rest assured we didn't make it lightly.

Like, I do believe you guys did discuss it for long time, but I'm in the camp who still doesn't get the decision. Like, only appeal to real time and pause crpgs I can see is "All popular crpgs had real time and pause as well!" I mean, yeah, its faster than turn based, but thats pretty much only benefit I see to it.

Anyhoo, noticed the kingdom building concept looks pretty similar to sheet from player's guide so thats nice. Does game also use hex exploration from ap or does it skip hexploration in favor of Baldur's gate style "Here's a map, go to east/west/north/south from the map" thing?


Ronin_Knight wrote:
Ok this has awesome potential, I just have to hope it has a console release otherwise it's going to really hurt my wallet.

Publisher and developer aren't huge and influential, and let us be fair, these types of games are a niche market compared to AAA companies and their titles... so I doubt there will be a console release, as it usually involves extra fees for dev kits and other licenses to the console makers, which is extra resources and time, no to mention development and porting. In other words, I think we'll see kingmaker on PS and XBox only if it's successful on PC and there will be a market for it on consoles.

Now, I do hope it will get to steam at least.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Cotoff wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Most people who know me here, know me for my Kingmaker expansions. I ran a Kingmaker game for roughly 6 years. We finished book 5. However due to personal reasons my party split up before we could play book 6.

As a longtime Kingmaker GM, I idly wondered what it would be like to be a player in such a campaign. I even dreamed of a CRPG where I could create a character that began running a Kingdom alongside the Pathfinder iconics.

This is an actual dream come true, I'm so excited about this game.

Now who do I talk to about getting Hargulka's Monster Kingdom into the game?

One of the developers here. I can't tell you much about the actual game because MARKETING, but what I wanted to tell you is:

One, we have several tabletop Kingmaker campaigns running in the office, at various stages of the AP.
Two, the DMs, myself included, did read Paizo forums in general and your conversions in particular and incorporated the ideas into their games.
And three, your conversions were AWESOME and thank you for your work!

As for what, if anything, from your work has found its way into the CRPG - well I guess you'll have to wait and see.

I am always honored to see people use the work I did for my home campaign and incorporate it into their own campaigns. I've heard from people all over the world who have made use of some part of my expansion packs. To know that my game design made into home campaigns of game designers is heartwarming. I'm touched, and I can not wait to see what this game brings.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I went from super excited to terribly disappointed reading this thread. Real time combat means I won't play it. I'll probably still buy a copy (so I guess it doesn't matter), but that's a terrible let down. :(


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Not a fan of real time combat at all. However, the witcher isn't exactly awful. I guess we will see.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Real time with pause is great. Pillars of Eternity is one of the best games to come out the past few years, IMO, and if it is a similar RT combat like it then I'll be happy as a hippo. Divinity Original Sin's combat turns were fine and all, but it was a bit more of a timesink to get through combats.


archmagi1 wrote:
Real time with pause is great. Pillars of Eternity is one of the best games to come out the past few years, IMO, and if it is a similar RT combat like it then I'll be happy as a hippo. Divinity Original Sin's combat turns were fine and all, but it was a bit more of a timesink to get through combats.

Aye, if there's a system like in pillars that allows to fast forward or slow down to 0.5 speed, plus the active pause system, and maybe a visual representation of "virtual rounds" - then it's just Turn-based on crack.


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I have to say I'm in the opposite camp than most people. I like real time combat. In fact, the faster the combat the better. Turn based combat just seems to drag on over long for me, and as someone with 2-6hrs a week to play games, spending 30minutes to an hour on a single fight is way too long.
Also, to answer the why Kingmaker question, I suspect it has something to do with innovation. Alot of games that just stick to the formula wouldn't get far without a key innovation. Without nemesis Shadow of Mordor would be an Arkam Clone no one cared for. Without invasions and brutal gameplay the Dark Souls games wouls just be another third person RPG. Without kingdom building this game could be pushed aside for any other RTwP game or any western RPG for that matter. Not saying the Civ. Games don't count but to flawlessly blend those elements together with deep story and rpg adventuring is gonna be a difficult task that can also prove rewarding and put this adventure on the map.
I really like that we're going with a single player game and hope it feels really in depth Golarion. If this works I think the next adventure should be set some place less generic, like Varisia or Cheliax, or even Numeria or the Worldwound.
Otherwise, awesome, really looking forward to this.


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I played NwN I on a server quite a bit, without the option to pause. Usually it worked out because:

* Six real-life seconds are a long time if you only have to click an enemy or pick a single spell from a quickslot.
* The PCs acted moderately smart on their own: Switch the enemy after kill, walk close enough to cast a spell, fight back when standing still and being attacked.
* You were able to queue actions.
* The graphics were quite clear, so you could get an impression of the situation quickly.

So I felt in control most of the time. Lags and badly visualized obstacles were issues, but actually not so relevant in normal combat - just when running away. In singleplayer I had the pause key which made it nearly as manageable as turn-based.

I am not sure how they want to combine pause and multiplayer, but maybe they will come up with something smart. Well, making it singleplayer from the beginning definitely helps... :D


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worldhopper wrote:
For one, what is this fixation with the River Kingdoms? IMO it's one of the least interesting parts of the setting.

For one it's not just River Kingdoms, it's Stolen Lands, right between the Slavic-esque Brevoy, the Barbaric Numeria and River Kingdoms. Also River kingdoms are very different from one another. Not to mention this is a good chance to flesh out a region which arguably gets the least love from paizo. Nethys knows when we will be getting a new book on Brevoy, not even mentioning poor, poor old Iobaria.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
I went from super excited to terribly disappointed reading this thread. Real time combat means I won't play it. I'll probably still buy a copy (so I guess it doesn't matter), but that's a terrible let down. :(

Ah, Steve, I knew you're a paleoconservative. ;-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Keydan wrote:
worldhopper wrote:
For one, what is this fixation with the River Kingdoms? IMO it's one of the least interesting parts of the setting.
For one it's not just River Kingdoms, it's Stolen Lands, right between the Slavic-esque Brevoy, the Barbaric Numeria and River Kingdoms. Also River kingdoms are very different from one another. Not to mention this is a good chance to flesh out a region which arguably gets the least love from paizo. Nethys knows when we will be getting a new book on Brevoy, not even mentioning poor, poor old Iobaria.

"It's not just River Kingdoms, it's this specific mostly uninhabited part of the River Kingdoms" isn't actually better. It's also based on an Adventure Path. I'm sure there will be some changes and some expanded areas, but I'm not exactly expecting an act devoted to exploring Numeria.


Keydan wrote:
worldhopper wrote:
For one, what is this fixation with the River Kingdoms? IMO it's one of the least interesting parts of the setting.
For one it's not just River Kingdoms, it's Stolen Lands, right between the Slavic-esque Brevoy, the Barbaric Numeria and River Kingdoms. Also River kingdoms are very different from one another. Not to mention this is a good chance to flesh out a region which arguably gets the least love from paizo. Nethys knows when we will be getting a new book on Brevoy, not even mentioning poor, poor old Iobaria.

So again... Western & Central Europe, which is not exactly a unique RPG setting. (And I doubt we will be seeing much of Numeria, on account of the tech stuff.)

I mean, I wasn't expecting any of the super genre APs like Carrion Crown or Iron Gods or Strange Aeons, because they do want to give an idea of what Pathfinder in general is like, but... why not Runelords, or Crimson Throne? Or heck, wouldn't Jade Regent be uniquely suited to a BDesque party-based, story-focused game?

Captain Kuro wrote:
Without kingdom building this game could be pushed aside for any other RTwP game or any western RPG for that matter. Not saying the Civ. Games don't count but to flawlessly blend those elements together with deep story and rpg adventuring is gonna be a difficult task that can also prove rewarding and put this adventure on the map.

Um, Fallout, World of Warcraft, Pillars of Eternity, and Tyranny have all featured base-building elements in the past couple years? Or coming at it from the other angle, turn-based kingdom-building strategy games with strong RPG adventuring/questing/leveling elements are kind of a big thing - see Endless Legend, Age of Wonders, and of course Heroes of Might & Magic. (And heck, I think I'd rather have these guys recycle their HoMMV work, rebrand it with Pathfinder stuff, and release it under the guise of a Pathfinder TBS, actually - but that's more out of my sadness at the current state of the Might & Magic franchise.)


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SheepishEidolon wrote:


I am not sure how they want to combine pause and multiplayer, but maybe they will come up with something smart. Well, making it singleplayer from the beginning definitely helps... :D

Wait, was it confirmed no multiplayer at all, or did they just mean it was a campaign and not an MMO?


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worldhopper wrote:


So again... Western & Central Europe, which is not exactly a unique RPG setting.

More like central and eastern Europe. Name a CRPG with Slavic themes from the last 10 years that isn't Witcher.

Also, about the AP. As far as I understand it, why so may people like kingmaker and praise it, isn't for the story or the uniqueness. It wasn't so much a good AP because it was good the way Crimson Throne was, so much as it was a great sandbox with enough space to form it into anything you want, tweak what you want and add anything you want without breaking it. For a DM it was an a AP that you could make your own just by using it as a template, and if you read Kingmaker section on forums - that's exactly what many people did. War, intrigue, general murderhobo adventures, high stakes, west march... it has space for any kind of game. Play up the pending civil war in brevoy, the Mivon-Restov confrontation, the Pitax power game, the barbarians, the centaur invasion, the dragon-riddled mountains, the creepy cyclopean ruins and old ones mythos, the old taldor expansion, the crypts of first men in the region, the remnants of elven presence, the prevalence of the first world, the mendev crusaders that pass through, the galtian revolution seeding into new countries. There is plenty of space and hints for all of this in the AP by itself... One of few Paiso APs that give this freedom to the DM from the get go, and from what I read - devs are scouring the forums for ideas as we speak.


Keydan wrote:
worldhopper wrote:


So again... Western & Central Europe, which is not exactly a unique RPG setting.
More like central and eastern Europe. Name a CRPG with Slavic themes from the last 10 years that isn't Witcher.

Well if we're going to exclude one of the most prominent & popular fantasy RPG franchises of the last decade... And if they actually wanted to do "Slavic themes," Reign of Winter is a way better choice, given that's pretty much the entire basis of the story.

Anyway I'll give you Brevoy as Eastern Europe, but River Kingdoms has always struck me as essentially being Avistan's Rhineland (right down to the geography).

Keydan wrote:
Also, about the AP. As far as I understand it, why so may people like kingmaker and praise it, isn't for the story or the uniqueness. It wasn't so much a good AP because it was good the way Crimson Throne was, so much as it was a great sandbox with enough space to form it into anything you want, tweak what you want and add anything you want without breaking it. For a DM it was an a AP that you could make your own just by using it as a template, and if you read Kingmaker section on forums - that's exactly what many people did. War, intrigue, general murderhobo adventures, high stakes, west march... it has space for any kind of game. Play up the pending civil war in brevoy, the Mivon-Restov confrontation, the Pitax power game, the barbarians, the centaur invasion, the dragon-riddled mountains, the creepy cyclopean ruins and old ones mythos, the old taldor expansion, the crypts of first men in the region, the remnants of elven presence, the prevalence of the first world, the mendev crusaders that pass through, the galtian revolution seeding into new countries. There is plenty of space and hints for all of this in the AP by itself... One of few Paiso APs that give this freedom to the DM from the get go, and from what I read - devs are scouring the forums for ideas as we speak.

Which is also why it's uniquely unsuited to a videogame. It's already a rough transition from the "if you can imagine it and the GM's down, you can make it happen" atmosphere of tabletop to the "we can only program so many options" limitations of a CRPG; converting an AP that relies so heavily on GM creativity is only going to exacerbate that. I get that it gives them more room to put their own stamp on it, and it's good they're pulling ideas from GMs here, but my worry is it'll just end up with PF people going "well those really weren't the hooks I wanted to follow" and non-PF people going "so is this trying to ride on Game of Thrones' coattails or Pillars of Eternity's or both?"

Also, it feels like a missed opportunity to take one of the more linear APs, the ones that are otherwise good stories but get rated down for being too railroady, and convert it to a medium that by default is more comfortable with that kind of storytelling.

Silver Crusade

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The problem with railroads is that the year is 2017 and playing a linear game feels a little weird when Dark Souls, Skyrim and Witcher 3 are around and we live in the age of procedural survival sandbox.


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River kingdoms as a whole have a West-Central European feel to it, as a whole but the region in question only has 2 powers in play. Mivon, a meritocratic semi-eastern-european city state with an interesting system of power based on duels and martial prowess... and Pitax which is pretty much a kleptocratic state rulled by mafia-esque noble families, with most notable features being drugs, trade and art, with a distinct Italian feel.

My point was - there is a lot ob blanks that can be filled with any kinds of fun side quests that can scratch any itch.

Linear stories can be fun, games like these shine hte msot with an open world to explore and paint your own adventure. Also boosts their replayability.


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Kingmaker is a popular AP and a sandbox single player rpg with a strong story built around building an entire kingdom is unique even with the glut of crpgs is my answer to why kingmaker.

Grand Lodge

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I read it as the flexibility for Avellone and the dev team to be creative with the story.. couldn't be very creative with CotCT without pissing people off.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh okay see I wanted to play a Pathfinder Adventure Path built as a video game, not Avellone and the dev team be creative with a sandbox adventure set in Golarion.

Guess I'll keep hoping for that Obsidian CotCT that isn't very creative so as not to piss me off.

Dark Archive

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It would be nice though if the game did acknowledge that Stolen Lands is right next to the place with robots, lasers and alien horrors xD I mean I doubt ap does that since it doesn't fit the theme and Golarion in general has strange issue of bordering countries not affecting each other much.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Emerald Spire has some issues, but what's great is that it's in the River Kingdoms near Ustalav and Numeria along a road leading to the Worldwound, and it has the evil outsiders, undead, and robots to prove it.

Grand Lodge

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I'm confident that there's more great Pathfinder content to be written and don't feel the need to only relive the prior AP's word-for-word. I anticipate Paizo folks will be involved in development and direction, so if it's not just "Kingmaker again, but digital!" I will be happy with new Pathfinder level-of-quality adventuring. If it IS word-for-word, great as well... if they do more APs, it would be another way to experience the AP's I won't get to play/GM on paper.

I also hope that this is just the first of many releases. And, Kingmaker, being sandbox, would also be ripe for adding DLC.

We'll see. It's tough to win with video games... look what happened with Sword Coast. In any case, I remain optimistic.


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worldhopper wrote:


Lastly, the art so far is just... huh? That main promo image they have on the website - if it weren't for Amiri and that goblin in the shadows, I wouldn't have known it was anything to do with Pathfinder.

How come? Couple of iconics, recognizable artwork and even the main villain of the first chapter of Kingmaker, Stag Lord, is there. I would have known it was a Kingmaker CRPG just based on that image alone.


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Gorbacz wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I went from super excited to terribly disappointed reading this thread. Real time combat means I won't play it. I'll probably still buy a copy (so I guess it doesn't matter), but that's a terrible let down. :(
Ah, Steve, I knew you're a paleoconservative. ;-)

I cut my teeth on Wizardry, Ultimate and Bard's Tale. Why can't it be like them? :p

I bet they won't even have a proper manual, will they?

Silver Crusade

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Steve Geddes wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I went from super excited to terribly disappointed reading this thread. Real time combat means I won't play it. I'll probably still buy a copy (so I guess it doesn't matter), but that's a terrible let down. :(
Ah, Steve, I knew you're a paleoconservative. ;-)

I cut my teeth on Wizardry, Ultimate and Bard's Tale. Why can't it be like them? :p

I bet they won't even have a proper manual, will they?

Or a spinning paper wheel copy protection mechanism? I mean, they were kind of cute.


Toadkiller Dog wrote:
worldhopper wrote:


Lastly, the art so far is just... huh? That main promo image they have on the website - if it weren't for Amiri and that goblin in the shadows, I wouldn't have known it was anything to do with Pathfinder.
How come? Couple of iconics, recognizable artwork and even the main villain of the first chapter of Kingmaker, Stag Lord, is there. I would have known it was a Kingmaker CRPG just based on that image alone.

Only one iconic. I don't think that's Lem in the back - outfit is wrong (compared to Amiri's which was recreated exactly) and anyway they didn't mention him upthread when they were talking about Amiri being confirmed and that other iconics were under consideration.

I'll admit to not recognizing the Stag Lord, having not played Kingmaker. That said, he's kind of weirdly placed off to the side in the image, so I imagine most non-PF people and PF players who haven't run Kingmaker will make the same assumption I did - that he's a random druid/ranger/barbarian kind of guy.

I also don't think the artwork is that recognizable? I mean, I'm not gonna be like "all Pathfinder art is Wayne Reynolds" (although it would have been cool to get him for the box art) but compositionally it's pretty different from most Pathfinder art, and not just because of the aspect ratio. Also, the character design is kinda spotty once you do include iconics like Amiri. Some characters, like that half-orc who I assume is a magus, look right at home, but that Sarenrite guy in the back sticks out like a sore thumb, and the half-elf is throwing me off, too, for reasons I can't pin down.

Anyway, the main things that jumped out at me right away with the main image were that a) there were twice as many men as women (just in the main party - add in the brigands and the ratio gets even further off) and b) literally everyone in the image is white or white-coded. It's jarring when you compare it to pretty much every other major piece of Pathfinder art. I mean, I'd expect it from most other fantasy games, but I thought the idea was to advertise to people outside the PF community that Pathfinder isn't another generic fantasy game?

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