What is the logic behind taking a 5-foot step?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Some background:
I recently GM’d a game where my party was attacked by Giant Crabs (Dad-a-chum?). One of the party members is a lance user, so the sneaky bastard would get 5 (10?) feet away from one of my crabs and attack it; then, when the crab attempted to get close (thus leaving his threat area) he would perform the corresponding AoO; the next turn he would just step back taking a 5-foot step action to avoid provoking an AoO, wash, rinse and repeat (my crab did get to connect a couple of hits tho).

Now, the situation described above got me thinking, what is done differently when performing a 5 foot step, as opposed to just moving 5 feet?

I mean, I understand its a tactical movement to avoid provoking AoO but, why would restricting your movement to 5 feet per turn prevent your enemy from attacking you?; do you move slower than normal?; are you more mindful of your opponent’s movements thus preventing him taking advantage of your movement?

I ask this because I want to know if it would be logical for any creature (my crabs) to take advantage of this benefit, regardless of its intelligence or its strategic training (or lack thereof).

The action as described in the PRD does not assign any special qualities or requirements for this action nor does it require any feat or minimum ability score.

I might just be overthinking this, but I don't want the behavior of my Giant Crabs to be unrealistic (yeah, I read what I just wrote >.<)


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If that is the only movement the crab do in the round then it is 5-ft and do not provoke.


Related to this, I want to know why faster and larger creatures don't get a bigger equivalent of the 5-foot step -- for a Giant that is twice as large in linear dimensions (including tall in this case) and twice as fast as we are, taking a 10-foot step should be equally minor as taking a 5-foot step for us, yet only a very few abilities generally NOT found on larger creatures allow for greater movement equivalent to a 5-foot step (Outslug Sprint is the only one that comes to mind, but I could almost swear I have seen another).


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Why didn't your crab 5ft back next to him and not provoke the AoO? Once you've closed in on someone you're pretty able to stick on to them.

Silver Crusade

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From how I understand it, when you do a regular move, you're actively breaking away from the other person and focusing on moving a large distance. This can be seen as either turning your back and high-tailing it or back-peddling very fast to put as much distance as possible which would naturally put you a bit off-balance leaving you open to an AoO. Considering each round is equivalent to 6 seconds and a normal movement speed is 30 feet, that means you're going 5 ft/s. That's actually fairly fast so a character is having to really commit to the movement which would compromise their defenses in one way or another.

A 5-foot step is more akin to the natural flow of combat while remaining engaged and wary of your foe(s). To answer the original question, the Giant Crab is fully intelligent enough to take a 5-foot step because the only intelligence such a movement needs is a basic sense of self-preservation. After all, a Giant Crab doesn't move around with both claws wide to the side. If engaged in combat it would be probably be holding one or both claws somewhat protectively in front of itself unless it was moving a fair distance to attack someone, in which case it would probably do something akin to a charge with holding it's claws up and at the ready to hit at the end of movement. It may not be smart enough to 5-foot step with the intent to flank with another unless it's specifically written in their tactics, but it can certainly 5-foot step for whatever reason to not provoke an AoO.

Edit:
If you want to see how a crab doing a 5-foot step looks like, take a look at this video. If you ignore the crazy flipping of the character to get behind the crab, the crab is always trying to circle and pivot at an optimal distance with a claw usually held in front in order to protect itself. During this pivoting/shuffling movement the player never attacks because he knows that the crab could attack at any moment/is protecting itself, meaning he isn't getting any AoOs because it would leave him too open to attack. When they're both circling/strafing each other is a perfect example of two enemies in combat with each other both taking 5-foot steps in a round since in the mind's theater both combatants should be doing their actions at roughly the same time during the 6 seconds (turns are only an abstraction needed to make the combat system work).


From what i have heard, a character is constantly bouncing about their square, technically occupying the entire square over 6 seconds. So a 5ft step is akin to merely making one or two quick retreating steps into the next square, without fully moving an entire 5ft.
Animals of any intelligence naturally circle and move to get the best position, lunging and feinting to expose vulnerabilities in their foes, it is not unreasonable a crab would move like a fighter, deliberately, not rushing about defenceless. Animals have self preservation and generally natural combat talents.
Oozes are a different matter, they have no sense of, well, anything but hunger, they would rush in full speed, heedless of their survival in most cases.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Related to this, I want to know why faster and larger creatures don't get a bigger equivalent of the 5-foot step -- for a Giant that is twice as large in linear dimensions (including tall in this case) and twice as fast as we are, taking a 10-foot step should be equally minor as taking a 5-foot step for us, yet only a very few abilities generally NOT found on larger creatures allow for greater movement equivalent to a 5-foot step (Outslug Sprint is the only one that comes to mind, but I could almost swear I have seen another).

Pretty simple answer for that one; it would completely screw melee characters thanks to the way full attacks an mobility work.

Fighter Guy: I close to melee range.

GM: The Giant makes an attack of opportunity. Then his normal full attack. Then takes a ten foot step back.

Fighter Guy: I move ten feet (eating another AoO) and only make a single attack because I moved more than five feet.

GM: The Giant makes a full attack, then takes a ten foot step back...


The tarrasque probably shifts more than five feet when breathing, but yes, good point.


Ever watch an MMA fight? A UFC octagon is 30' across and it's typically the big movements that would provoke AoOs, as it were. Minor shifting about, a la 5' step, are very easy to defend such that the opponent would not see an opening.

Scarab Sages

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The crab would also be doing a five foot step and should not have provoked.


I'm having trouble understanding your initial description OP.

If you have someone using a reach weapon (like a lance) they can attack at 10ft distance but not 5ft (assuming normal medium creature). What I'm unclear about is what you're trying to describe happening afterwards.

So the reach weapon user moves up to the crab while being 10ft away and attacks. On the crabs turn he moves 5ft (not provoking AoO) and full attacks the weapon user. The weapon user must now move 5ft away in order to use his reach weapon, though doing so does not provoke an AoO. This exchanges continues until 1 dies.

The only other thing that could happen is the weapon user "sneaks" into position and the crab doesn't attack him first. Instead the weapon user attacks at 5ft steps away. Now the weapon user is 2 squares away, the crab moves 10ft provoke an AoO and then attacks the fighter. Then our 5ft step dance continues again.

In scenario two the only problem is that the crab ignored the weapon user and so he was able to get an attack unanswered, but at the expense of not making an attack on a turn he could have.

The Exchange

A giant crab has a Swim speed, and chaps with lances usually don't. Crab should have backed the guy up into the water, where the guy can't 5ft step but the crab still can... Depending on the terrain available, of course.


The 5ft step represents footwork a character can perform simultaneously as they perform other actions during their turn. Unlike regular movement which is much more reckless. For example, moving 10ft back probably means that you do somewhat turn around to move, since you can't really move at 100% speed when walking backwards.

And just like the rest of the people here, I'm wondering why the Crabs didn't 5ft step as well.

I'm also staring to wonder if exchanging a move action for another 5ft step (10ft in total without provoking an AoO) would cause much balancing problems or not?


Wow, I hadn't had the time to check this post because... life, but I didn't expect so many replies, thank you all.

Aziraya Zhwan wrote:
A 5-foot step is more akin to the natural flow of combat while remaining engaged and wary of your foe(s). To answer the original question, the Giant Crab is fully intelligent enough to take a 5-foot step because the only intelligence such a movement needs is a basic sense of self-preservation.

I gotta say, Aziraya Zhwan's interpretation was really compelling; it really addressed my concern and explained at length how he thinks it is supposed to work, thanks dude, I'm really convinced this is how it is supposed to be played.

Claxon wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding your initial description OP

I think the confusion here lays in the way that I use this mechanic, allow me to elaborate. When I use this mechanic I "call it" beforehand, and I ask the same of my players, otherwise I assume it is just a regular move action which provokes AoO. Now, I wouldn't call this a house-rule, I just assumed that was the right way to do it, but I've noticed that the lot of you just assume that if a creature moves 5 feet and attacks he's performing a 5 foot step action (which is fair now that I think about it because he would have already used his move and standard actions).

Cheers!


I've always saw a 5ft step as a quick dart or a cautious step in a particular direction that is too quick to open up an AoO and it doesn't require any focus so you don't look away to open up an attack either. Maybe mindless creatures wouldn't bother with a 5 ft step but I see no reasoneed animals wouldn't be able to make them....did-a-chuck


There was one time where a couple characters got into a duel. They were 20 or so feet away. Instead of charging at each other, they began to approach with 5ft steps because they wanted to get a full attack on each other instead of one charge attack. This I think is an intentional design by the rules. This slow approach of two swordsmen is seen all the time in movies. They slowly circle towards each other taunting, and when they finally get close enough they go at it.

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