Investigating the disappearance of Aroden

[Sciguy]

I've seen lots of conjecture about the fate of Aroden, the god of Humanity, but I really don't care what the answer is. It's a mystery and I like that it's THE QUESTION of the Pathfinder RPG. However, I think it would be a lot of fun for my players to investigate the disappearance and eventually come to their own conclusions organically. So the question is, how would my players go about the investigation.

Let's assume for a moment that the cleric and paladin refugees from Aroden who were taken in my Iomedae have tried all of the the direct methods of divination. We even know that Iomedae went and talked to Pharasma personally and didn't get anywhere. We also also presume that he's dead when in fact he is only missing.

I've been compiling a list of what we know from various Paizo sources that we can take more or less as fact. For example, we know that prophecy had Aroden appearing in 4606 AR in Cheliax, and that he simply didn't show. I've also been compiling a list of possible sources of information, like Pharasma herself and possibly Arazni the Harlot Queen, who was Aroden original herald before being forced into lichdom. And finally I've got a few related mysteries that may provide clues, e.g. the Eye of Abendego and the Worldwound.

I'm looking for an Occult Mythic game (which I realize don't typically go together), and I'm wondering if there are any angles or bases I've missed. Like I said above, the actual fate of Aroden is irrelavent, I'm looking for ways for player characters to discover the truth, whatever it may be.

Thanks!

[Darius Darkblade aka Legionare]

Errr pretty sure its mentioned somewhere he has passed through the boneyard. Pharasma had him jump line so all the other gods couldnt get to him for some reason. Anyone able to back me up on this? Its been to long since i hunted aroden lore down.

[Sciguy]

The only reference I've found is that Pharasma revealed it through her clerics. It's probably the truth, but it could also be PR on the Church of Pharasma's part to help maintain order. And even if it is true, death for a god is a different affair from the death of a mortal.

All of that said, I want to sow enough doubt that if the players end up wanting to investigate on the assumption that he might have been god-napped instead, they can be free to go in that direction. I fully expect them to start with the assumption that Aroden is dead, though.

[loc]

In a book of shattered star his death was predicted by a cleric of Grotius

[Sciguy]

loc wrote:

In a book of shattered star his death was predicted by a cleric of Grotius

I'm still waiting on my copy of Shattered Star to come in, but I'll definitely be on the lookout for that info. Depending on the exact circumstances, that cleric may be a lead in the PC's investigation.

[loc]

It's in book 4 of the path. You will find him.

[Haldrick]

Occult could bring up stuff which claims to get around normal prophecy,
Séances, Spirits, ancient lore.

The Knights of the Ioun Star know a lot about him. Aboleths (good luck to the party getting them to talk). Thassilonian ruins/records or Azlanti ruins themselves. The Mordant Spire Elves

These spring to mind

[D6-shooter]

Got my own pet theory. Aroden's existence as the God of Humanity involved the expectation that he would lead all of humanity into a golden age that would last for centuries, if I recall. However, perhaps it seemed to him - being a god, and thus more aware of things to come - that at the end of the prophesied period for the Golden Age of Humanity, things would decline. Think of it: centuries, perhaps even millenia of relative peace and prosperity for all of mankind across all of Golarion. And, by implication (to my thinking) no new discoveries, no need to hone society against ills from within and without. In short, the coming of the Golden Age would sew the seeds of its own undoing. Humanity would eventually become complacent, and as above, note that the period of prosperity came packaged with an expiration date.

This is the way I've always considered it: Aroden knew that if he brought the world into this Golden Age, humanity would be unprepared to deal with the horrors coming from Beyond and from within at the end of the grace period that he could grant, the likes of which would render the whole Golden Age a mistake. Bound by fetters of fate and prophesy that even he could not easily resist, he went to the only resident deity with Prophesy in her portfolio: Pharasma.
He made a pact with her on the eve of the prophesy's fulfillment: In order to undo the prophesy, it would require her to sacrifice that aspect of her portfolio, and would also require him to sacrifice his very being. Believing that, in the long run, this would be the best thing for Humanity, he went through with it.

Pharasma lost access to much of her powers of prophesy (a fact jealously guarded by the very highest among her faithful), and Aroden lost his life. The Age of Lost Omens, and the disappearance of Aroden, are - to my mind - the result of assisted suicide. Humanity, without its patron deity or the powers of Prophesy to lead them, would be forced to face the darkness alone, and thus either learn to conquer it or be conquered by it.

The Golden Age of Humanity quietly promised strife afterward. By trading his life to allow the strife to come first, he offered humanity the best thing that he could: A chance to establish an Age of Heroes, and to prove themselves worthy of it.

That's my interpretation of events, at any rate.

[Sciguy]

I mean, I want to let my players figure out what happened to Aroden. I plan to give them odd bit of disparate information, a few red herrings, and maybe even some outright incorrect folklore to encourage them to get their brains working on conspiracy theories. Once they get to that stage, I'll start guiding them along whichever crazy theory I like the most or makes the most sense. If they get too lost and confused, then I'll worry about creating an answer to start leading them toward.

What I'm looking for is avenues of investigation. This is what I have so far:
-Pharasma knows more than she's letting on, so I thought to have the PCs quest to retrieve an artifact from Asmodeus capable of forcing a god to answer a question directly before it crumbles to dust.
-If the Echo of Lost Divinity is the passed on soul of Aroden, dragging it to the Dimension of Time might allow the PCs to see what happened.
-No one knows Aroden better than Arazni, the Harlot Queen of Geb. The PCs could go and entertain her in return for more info about Aroden.
-The Worldwound makes sense since the demons there were probably just waiting for an opening to invade Golarion, but the Eye of Abendego seems odd. Maybe investigating it's eye could reveal what's keeping it going and in turn, how it's related to Aroden's death.
-Iomedae is likely still trying to piece everything together as well and even if she has no information, she could provide some backup.
-The Starstone is what granted Aroden and the other Ascended divinity, so investigating it could reveal a clue.
-Attempts to enter the Akashic Record meet with failure, but they get a lead that a single "page" of the record is floating around somewhere.

I have lots of really cool, higher level ideas. I'm just not sure how to keep the players busy until they get enough levels and mythic tiers to actually accompish those crazy goals.

[Nathan Nasif]

Gather info from mortal beings that lived through Aroden's time. Liches, the else at of dragons, etc.

[Goth Guru]

Ex Libis is a group that hoards evidence of history. To join you have to prove that you value truth above all things.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

[Christopher Dudley]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

I don't recall the passage in the novel, myself, but thought someone cited Death's Heretic as a source on that one, as well.

I like the suicide theory, but I think it's also possible that Pharasma agreed to keep Aroden's soul safe because she got word of events to come. Asmodeus had planned the long con centuries ago, once he heard of Aroden's golden age. With a gentle fiendish nudge here and there, he was able to interfere with the prophecy to plunge the greatest empire on Golarion into such desperate straits that they would accept his supremacy.

However, saving a god's soul is one thing, but there's a lot of divine power that has to go somewhere. So as Aroden was murdered by Asomdeus's interference in the middle of his manifestation, his divine power was present on the material world. The only way to keep it from destroying everything around it was to turn it back on itself, in a perpetual circle, creating an inexhaustible hurricane out on the ocean.

Just a hypothesis.

[LazarX]

Christopher Dudley wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

I don't recall the passage in the novel, myself, but thought someone cited Death's Heretic as a source on that one, as well.

I've read Death's Heretic several times. Nothing at all about Aroden or anything looking like Aroden in it.

[Christopher Dudley]

LazarX wrote:

Christopher Dudley wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

I don't recall the passage in the novel, myself, but thought someone cited Death's Heretic as a source on that one, as well.

I've read Death's Heretic several times. Nothing at all about Aroden or anything looking like Aroden in it.

OK, then I must have misunderstood the citation. My apologies.

[RuyanVe]

The upcoming AP #100 has an article about Aroden. You should find lots of details about him in there to derive more quests from the info presented.

Also, hunting down a high-ranking priest of Groetius to get some more details about the prophecy made could be the level-up phase of your plot arc.

Another thing could be the cyclops and their Flash of Insight ability--maybe a long stretch 'til there, but you could build upon it. Maybe the ruins of Ghol-Gan, close to the Eye hold tidbits of information or the Saoc Brethren) could be researched.

Ruyan.

[Slithery D]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

"Echo of Lost Divinity"

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Slithery D wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

"Echo of Lost Divinity"

That's the guy! thanks for remembering! :)

[Yakman]

as someone mentioned, the western knights of the Ioun are probably the best bet for good knowledge of Aroden.

Easy cheesy ways to set up plot devices for them - went underground in Cheliax and are protected by a rogue Hellknight commander, disappeared into the depths of the Rahadoumi deserts, the last member of the order consumed the Thuvian-immortal flower and is currently an anchorite of repute in the southern mountain monastery of XXX, their ancient library can only be unlocked by a key held by the ancient dragon YYY who was Aroden's mount at the Battle of ZZZ...

[Herald]

I keep hoping that there will be reveled a ancient Azlanti monastery in the Crown of the world with Occult Mystics and the like there who may eek out clues to Aroden. (Not that they have to explain how he died though, just maybe clues to his life.)

Plus it would be fun to use them in a sort of Cthulhu/Pulp fiction sort of way. Vril guns and the like.

[Kyrand]

Sciguy wrote:

I have lots of really cool, higher level ideas. I'm just not sure how to keep the players busy until they get enough levels and mythic tiers to actually accompish those crazy goals.

Two suggestions here:

-- Research has to start small. First, they research as much as is commonly known, which gives them breadcrumbs to follow to bigger and better sources, which are obviously more difficult to use. For example, the PCs might, at low-levels, go from town to town, getting permission to go through wizards'/churches' libraries until they get the hint about a lost library rumored to have more complete and/or accurate information... or rumors of a being they can try to find and bargain with. Rinse and repeat as necessary until they start being ready for the big plans.

-- One of the main issues with research even today: funding. All of the methods to find such information run pretty hefty rates. Sometimes you have to take a random dungeon crawl mission to help pay for it. This can also help by spacing out how much they discover, as well as providing a nice playground for dropping clues, items, etc. that actually turn out to be important in the later stages of investigating. Bonus points if discovering the source of the thing that's been helping them for so long makes them pause to consider its continued use (ex. a minor artifact that's been leaking secrets to them or pointing them to bigger clues turns out to be from Norgorber... do they keep using it, and risk whatever he's planning, or play it safe and go back to doing it the hard way?)

[LazarX]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Slithery D wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

D6-shooter wrote:

...

I think there's a servant of Pharasma in her court that looks exactly like Aroden, if I believe my old foggy memory on Inner Sea Gods... could it be he died, was judged, lost all memory, and his soul now serves as a servant of Pharasma?

"Echo of Lost Divinity"

That's the guy! thanks for remembering! :)

It however constantly denies having any connection to Aroden.

Speaking of which, Iomedae still has some lingering resentment for Pharasma not giving her a headsup on the incident.... not even to her own priests... the ones actually connected to prophecy all going insane when the prophecy failed.

[Therrux]

If you still need a good starting point why not have them as part of the pathfinder society dedicated to uncovering the truth about Aroden's death. They get funding, and you can make it so they are seen as the mulder and scully of the organization. They will eventually deal with some big s*!#, but they are seen as a joke that will never uncover the truth by the rest of the society. Plus it gives them easy access to resources that they might not normally be able to have as basic adventurers.

As for a way of uncovering the truth, you could have them obtain pages and sections of the book of the damned scattered throughout the campaign while they are investigating lead. A completed book will most likely have the truth in it. I would suggest reading about it in Hell Unleashed for how to use it.

[Sciguy]

I like everyone's ideas so much! Thank you for giving me great starting points and inspiration.

Kyrand wrote:

Two suggestions here:

-- Research has to start small. First, they research as much as is commonly known, which gives them breadcrumbs to follow to bigger and better sources, which are obviously more difficult to use. For example, the PCs might, at low-levels, go from town to town, getting permission to go through wizards'/churches' libraries until they get the hint about a lost library rumored to have more complete and/or accurate information... or rumors of a being they can try to find and bargain with. Rinse and repeat as necessary until they start being ready for the big plans.

-- One of the main issues with research even today: funding. All of the methods to find such information run pretty hefty rates. Sometimes you have to take a random dungeon crawl mission to help pay for it.

There are lots of old abandoned churches of Aroden that have been taken over by cultists and monsters. Seems like a great and cheap way to combine a dungeon crawl and a fact-finding mission.

Therrux wrote:

If you still need a good starting point why not have them as part of the pathfinder society dedicated to uncovering the truth about Aroden's death. They get funding, and you can make it so they are seen as the mulder and scully of the organization. They will eventually deal with some big s#+&, but they are seen as a joke that will never uncover the truth by the rest of the society. Plus it gives them easy access to resources that they might not normally be able to have as basic adventurers.

I really like the idea of being part of a special Pathfinder team. I had the thought that, typically people have to petition and apply to be members of the Pathfinder Society. It might drop the a hint that they're special if instead, their regional venture captains specifically seek them out to recruit them and send them to Absalom to receive their mission. They could also use their PFS connections to pay for the research materials, instead of having to handle the GP themselves.

LazarX wrote:

Speaking of which, Iomedae still has some lingering resentment for Pharasma not giving her a headsup on the incident.... not even to her own priests... the ones actually connected to prophecy all going insane when the prophecy failed.

For obvious reasons I don't want gods directly intervening in the affairs of mortals, but Iomedae would definitely want to know whatever the players discover

Nathan Nasif wrote:

Gather info from mortal beings that lived through Aroden's time. Liches, the else at of dragons, etc.

Oh, don't worry, I'll definitely have my players pay Arazni the Harlot Queen a visit. The palace in the capital of Geb seems like an incredbily fun (and hazardous) place for an adventure.

[Brother Fen]

I'm currently running a mythic campaign to find the answer to this very question.

[QuidEst]

I'm working in a fake answer to my campaign. I've got a mythic entity of chaos and deception posing as an emissary of him, showing up in dreams and visions as his holy symbol, a great eye atop a pyramid of light. Its goal is tricking the foolish humans into freeing it to the material plane, making bargains and claiming they're ushering in their age of glory by helping him bring Aroden's back.

Gravity Falls spoilers:

For those of you who watch the show, yes, I just made Bill Cipher in Pathfinder. Yes, he has the voice.

[Goth Guru]

QuidEst wrote:

I'm working in a fake answer to my campaign. I've got a mythic entity of chaos and deception posing as an emissary of him, showing up in dreams and visions as his holy symbol, a great eye atop a pyramid of light. Its goal is tricking the foolish humans into freeing it to the material plane, making bargains and claiming they're ushering in their age of glory by helping him bring Aroden's back.

** spoiler omitted **

Did he destroy his 2D home to become a god? That's my take on his hidden origin.

New Aroden theory. He ascended to a higher plane so he could make radical changes. When he discovered that heaven on Glorion would destroy it, he channeled his power into the star stone so many new gods could succeed where he failed.

[Yakman]

Kyrand wrote:

Sciguy wrote:

I have lots of really cool, higher level ideas. I'm just not sure how to keep the players busy until they get enough levels and mythic tiers to actually accompish those crazy goals.

Two suggestions here:

-- Research has to start small. First, they research as much as is commonly known, which gives them breadcrumbs to follow to bigger and better sources, which are obviously more difficult to use. For example, the PCs might, at low-levels, go from town to town, getting permission to go through wizards'/churches' libraries until they get the hint about a lost library rumored to have more complete and/or accurate information... or rumors of a being they can try to find and bargain with. Rinse and repeat as necessary until they start being ready for the big plans.

just make sure you use the fun research system from SHIFTING SANDS

[Liz Courts]

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."
"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

"What about women?"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

Is...is that a Bomango reference?!

[Liz Courts]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

Is...is that a Bomango reference?!

Bomango was not the originator of that sequence...you'll have to go a bit farther back than that. ;)

[Cole Deschain]

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

...

I love our Community Ninja.

[Liz Courts]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

"What about women?"

Example one, and example two.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Liz Courts wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

"What about women?"

Example one, and example two.

They gained immortality instead of dying? (although in one case.. not such a good deal)

...but good to know. The success rate of women in that endeavor is slightly better than men's. :)

[Alleran]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Liz Courts wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

"What about women?"

Example one, and example two.

They gained immortality instead of dying? (although in one case.. not such a good deal)

...but good to know. The success rate of women in that endeavor is slightly better than men's. :)

Except there's no indication that either Iomedae or Arazni know. So essentially, one tried and died and became the Harlot Queen, while another might have never found out at all?

[Purple Dragon Knight]

one became demigoddess and the other a full on goddess... but yeah I have no idea if they ever learned of the fate of Aroden...

[Kerney]

Alleran wrote:

Except there's no indication that either Iomedae or Arazni know. So essentially, one tried and died and became the Harlot Queen, while another might have never found out at all?

Milani is another canidate who might know, and considering her portfolio she might know something or be involved.

[DominusMegadeus]

Liz Courts wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Liz Courts wrote:

"Many men have tried to find out what happened to Aroden...so many, but none has succeeded."

"They tried and failed, all of them?"
"Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

"What about women?"

Example one, and example two.

One wound up as a petty tyrant who will never age out of office, crushing anyone who disobeys under her steel boot...

and the other is a lich. :P

[doctor_wu]

inner sea faiths introduced alters as magic items for those of the faith. The book suggested worshippers of allied dieties could gain bonuses as well. This brings up many questions.

1. What happens to alters when the diety dies?

2. Iomeade early on used churches of aroden but is slowly redocarted also from inner sea dieties.

3. I can in my home games at least see granting from an altar of aroden and granting bonuses to iomeade worhispperrs.

[Brother Fen]

Pharasma knows.

[lucky7]

DominusMegadeus wrote:

One wound up as a petty tyrant who will never age out of office, crushing anyone who disobeys under her steel boot...

You wanna know the sad thing? I didn't realize you were trying to lead us to think that was Arazni.

I just read that and went "Yup, that's Iomedae."

[DominusMegadeus]

lucky7 wrote:

DominusMegadeus wrote:

One wound up as a petty tyrant who will never age out of office, crushing anyone who disobeys under her steel boot...

You wanna know the sad thing? I didn't realize you were trying to lead us to think that was Arazni.

I just read that and went "Yup, that's Iomedae."

Brilliant.

Honestly, her clergy tend towards the stuffy, stick-in-the-mud Paladins people hate to play with, so I don't lose sleep over any bad publicity she gets from that scene in Wrath. I vehemently disagree with Sarenrae's values, but I still find her a preferable Good deity.