How hard is it to hide a skeleton?


Advice


I'm building up a NPC in a campaign that I'm GMing, this NPC is a White Necromancer.

His archetype gives him an undead companion, similar to animal companion rules.

His companion is a Skeleton named Reginald, Reginald is intelligent, and can communicate telepathically with the White Necromancer.

My question is, if Reginald wears full plate armor, full helm included, how hard will it be for people to know he is a skeleton?


Might be quite hard, but if they are so close they can look inside the helm/visor, the game is up.


Read up on the disguise part of the CRB. The most important part is:

"Your Disguise check result determines how good the disguise is, and it is opposed by others’ Perception check results. If you don’t draw any attention to yourself, others do not get to make Perception checks."

He's at a -2 but otherwise shouldn't have too much trouble.

It's not obvious whether you can take 20 on disguise, but a previous developer thought it was reasonable in this thread so if you take that as a good enough ruling, have the necromancer/skele take 20 every morning on their disguise check. Fluff it as prayer/study or similar. You'll probably only get into trouble if you make it too obvious to your players: otherwise they don't even get checks. With skill ranks and the take 20, guards etc only taking 10 will not be an issue either.


You Can wrap him in fake meat and let him were a mask as well. It would be a disguise check and then bluff to Throw off Those that get suspicious. I would let folks use perception, sense motive, heal or knowledge (relegion) to see that somthing is wrong.


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My skin hides mine pretty well.


Hats of disguise are pretty cheap.


^ this.

Since Reggie is intelligent, a hat of disguise is a great option. It grants a +10 on disguise checks, which in combination with full skill ranks and a masterwork disguise kit, should push the opposed perception DC well into "don't bother rolling" territory.

If Reggie doesn't have disguise, invest in a Headband of Intellect with Disguise as the attached skill.


It doesn't quite work this way. You cannot change your creature type. A centaur wearing one could turn into a lamia or medusa, but not a human. The skeleton could turn into a vampire or lich i'm thinking.


A skeleton could mimic a ghoul with that hat, which is explicitly described to look like an exceptionally pale elf so long as they don't feed, which skeletons shouldn't. There's even a feat for ghouls pretending to be human. Civilized Ghoulishness, was it?


Disguise Self can't change creature type, but the Disguise skill can.

The +10 to disguise checks is a secondary effect that bypasses the normal limitations of Disguise Self with a skill check.


Also, undead is not an exclusive creature type. A creature can be Humanoid (undead) or Dragon (undead) or whatever.

If a hat of disguise can make a skeleton look like a Vampire (which look like normal versions of their original creature type) then it can certainly make them look like not-vampire versions of their original creature type. The difference is extremely negligible.


Isn't there a spell that grows flesh on a skeleton?

Radiant Oath

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Just make sure Reginald has a plan for when he...comes out of the closet! :P


Simple, just stuff him in the closet with all the other skeletons


There are also racial masks that negate the -2 for disguising yourself as another race as long as people don't get too close.

Even if your GM says a hat of disguise won't let him look like a human, just make him look like a zombie.

Zombies do not have to be rotten, the classic zombie is decayed because the necromancer has to rob graves for his raw materials. If you poisoned someone and raised them minutes after death would create a zombie that still looks alive.

If your GM debates that, point out to him how many crypt scenarios have zombies in them that are centuries old. Either decay stops upon zombification, or you have to get into how long a zombie lasts before it becomes a weaker skeleton.


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Not that hard. Its not that heavy and once you don't need to worry about bone and ligaments they fold pretty easily.

Erm.. or so i heard.


Edymnion wrote:

There are also racial masks that negate the -2 for disguising yourself as another race as long as people don't get too close.

Even if your GM says a hat of disguise won't let him look like a human, just make him look like a zombie.

Zombies do not have to be rotten, the classic zombie is decayed because the necromancer has to rob graves for his raw materials. If you poisoned someone and raised them minutes after death would create a zombie that still looks alive.

If your GM debates that, point out to him how many crypt scenarios have zombies in them that are centuries old. Either decay stops upon zombification, or you have to get into how long a zombie lasts before it becomes a weaker skeleton.

The White Necro has access to tons of spells that can maintain a corpse at relatively clean or healthy looking conditions, however, I am unsure if those spells are useful on undead targets, typically they would not, but the white necro does have a feat that allows undead humanoids to be treated as humanoids, for the purpose of spell resistance.

It also allows mind effecting spells to effect undead targets.

The feat is called "Necrotic Spell" but the d20pfsrd has it incorrectly listed with the "Siphon spell" description.

It is in the White Necromancer Expanded book.


Just have 'Reggie' put on his chain coif backwards. Anyone that really needs to look THAT close into someone's personal space will see chainmail over the eyes. It will be a little strange, but something non-magical and unskilled that could take care of it. Just don't have him shake hands.


Doomed Hero wrote:
Also, undead is not an exclusive creature type. A creature can be Humanoid (undead) or Dragon (undead) or whatever.

Wot?

This is absolutely wrong.

Undead is a type. There is no Undead (Dragon) or any such. A skeleton made from a dragon corpse is simply Undead. It retains none of the special qualities of the Dragon type, Undead supersedes all of that.

Humanoid Skeletons are not affected by spells that target Humanoids, because they're no longer Humanoid in Type.

The closest that come to this is certain templates like Vampire which have the Augmented subtype and end up as Undead (Augmented Humanoid/Fey/Whatever), but even then the Augmented subtype doesn't DO anything, it just makes a note of what the creature used to be for posterity's sake.


Here is a theoretical occurance, let me know if you guys think it would work.

Conditions:

1. The White Necromancer being discussed has the ability to craft a "hat of disguise".

2. The White Necromancer has a feat that causes his spells to effect undead humanoids as humanoids.

3. The White Necromancer crafts a "hat of disguise" for the purpose of disguising his skeleton.

Does that hat work on Reginald, if it is crafted using the White Necromancer's magic?


No.


Use disguise other

More expensive but it lasts 10 min/lvl and affects creature touched instead of humanoids.

Wands or potions -- your friend has a "condition"

You got bluff right?


He has a... *scratches head* ... SLIGHT case of anorexia?


"He is self-conscious about his appearance ever since that fight with a ghost and he hates to be touched -- it's a culture thing, I've never understood it myself but he gets really upset about it."

With disguise other it should be enough. Just have a high caster level and maybe extend it. Caster level 20 extended would be 400 minutes which is to say 6 hours and 40 minutes. That's a pretty good amount of time.


Alternately you could get him a ring of continuation and just cast the spell once each day to disguise him.


Abraham spalding wrote:

Use disguise other

More expensive but it lasts 10 min/lvl and affects creature touched instead of humanoids.

Wands or potions -- your friend has a "condition"

You got bluff right?

"This functions as Disguise Self."

Not seeing how you've overcome that there "can't change creature type" clause. It's the exact same spell except you can cast it on someone else instead of just yourself.


And finally as a bizarre twist:

Turn him into a Whovian Angel -- he only moves when no one looks!


Your necromancer is already hiding one skeleton inside him. Why can't he just do that with the other one?


When I played a necro, I used the full plate trick, and my GM let me roll with it as my really quiet bodyguard. It all depends on your GM and your effort. Not so much what you do, I think, but how much effort you put into it.

For example, if you've got a maxed out skill of Profession: Taxidermist, a masterwork tool (expert taxidermy kit), prop bottles of booze, and say your zombies are just really really drunk guys (I know you're talkin a skelly, I'm just saying for example), then your GM would have to be a dick pf the highest caliber to look at all the detail, the burned skillpoints on an otherwise useless skill, and go "Nope, they can tell".

So whatever plan you come up with, put effort in it, put resources in it, and most importantly, make sure the GM notices you're not half @$$ing it, and you should probably be okay.


Rynjin wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

Use disguise other

More expensive but it lasts 10 min/lvl and affects creature touched instead of humanoids.

Wands or potions -- your friend has a "condition"

You got bluff right?

"This functions as Disguise Self."

Not seeing how you've overcome that there "can't change creature type" clause. It's the exact same spell except you can cast it on someone else instead of just yourself.

Can't change creature type -- can change subtype. Go ghost. Ghosts don't have to be evil, and could have a reason to be out and about.

I thought the problem people were having was getting the spell to stick.

This funeral Mask however helps if you actually want to appear living while being a skeleton.


One big issue with the "full plate trick": Skeletons aren't proficient in armor.

So I'm not sure a -6 to its attack rolls is worth the disguise factor.


Undead Companions are a class function of the White Necromancer.
The animated undead maintains any proficiencies it had in life. (within reason)


Buy a cart and a closet?

Have him wear a robe a carry a big scythe?


How hard is it to hide a skeleton?

Not that hard at all, especially if the bones aren't wired together or anything, just dig a hole and bury it or replace a wall with bones on the inside if you want to do the classics.

Personally I think it is better to get rid of skeleton's entirely instead of leaving evidence, but it isn't as easy as you might think. The acid bath is a fine in theory but it actual practice it screws up the plumbing and there is almost always a knuckle or ankle bone that isn't completely dissolved by the acid, and when the plumber finds that it can lead to embarrassing questions. The best thing I've found is to get a band say and spend the hours it takes to convert the skeleton into bone dust (be sure to wear a mask, a skeleton is a lot of bone dust) and spread the dust around town.

Ooops, just read your post. Forget I said anything, I know nothing about disposing of the remains of my victims. Not that I have any victims, but if I had any victims, then I would know nothing about getting rid of their skeletons.


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Have Reggie wear a black body suit with a white skeleton painted on it, so he looks like a man wearing a bad skeleton costume. A perfect double bluff.


Rynjin wrote:

One big issue with the "full plate trick": Skeletons aren't proficient in armor.

So I'm not sure a -6 to its attack rolls is worth the disguise factor.

Nope.

Undead Type wrote:
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

That's why the bestiary skeleton wields a scimitar without penalty. Bestiary ogre skeletons wear half plate. There's even an archer skeleton that gets proficiency with the longbow and relevant feats.

Basically, undead retain any armor or weapon proficiencies they had in life.


Rynjin wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:
Also, undead is not an exclusive creature type. A creature can be Humanoid (undead) or Dragon (undead) or whatever.

Wot?

This is absolutely wrong.

Undead is a type. There is no Undead (Dragon) or any such. A skeleton made from a dragon corpse is simply Undead. It retains none of the special qualities of the Dragon type, Undead supersedes all of that.

Humanoid Skeletons are not affected by spells that target Humanoids, because they're no longer Humanoid in Type.

The closest that come to this is certain templates like Vampire which have the Augmented subtype and end up as Undead (Augmented Humanoid/Fey/Whatever), but even then the Augmented subtype doesn't DO anything, it just makes a note of what the creature used to be for posterity's sake.

You're right, I was thinking of subtypes.

PRD wrote:

The creature's type changes to undead. It retains any subtype except for alignment subtypes (such as good) and subtypes that indicate kind.[/url]


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Funeral Mask makes them count as their previous type for illusion and transmutation spells and specifically calls out alter self and disguise self as examples.


Doomed Hero wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

One big issue with the "full plate trick": Skeletons aren't proficient in armor.

So I'm not sure a -6 to its attack rolls is worth the disguise factor.

Nope.

Undead Type wrote:
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

That's why the bestiary skeleton wields a scimitar without penalty. Bestiary ogre skeletons wear half plate. There's even an archer skeleton that gets proficiency with the longbow and relevant feats.

Basically, undead retain any armor or weapon proficiencies they had in life.

Zombies actually don't retain weapon proficicencies, skeletons have a specific clause that lets them.

However, unless your skeleton was already proficient, it doesn't get it.

If you make a Skeleton of a Commoner, or a Rogue, and so on, no dice.


Rynjin wrote:
If you make a Skeleton of a Commoner, or a Rogue, and so on, no dice.

Not much of a limit. Just don't do that.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Funeral Mask makes them count as their previous type for illusion and transmutation spells and specifically calls out alter self and disguise self as examples.

OP, there's your answer.


Doomed Hero wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
If you make a Skeleton of a Commoner, or a Rogue, and so on, no dice.
Not much of a limit. Just don't do that.

You're limited by what's available.

Of ll the classes in the game, only four (Fighter, Cavalier, Warpriest, and Paladin...5 if you count the Samurai as a separate class) have Heavy armor proficiency.


Warrior and Aristocrat do too.

Plus whatever archetypes you care to find -- all in all I think the lesson is "Know the body before you make a skeleton."


Although the OP has received a viable answer to his question, I think it is worth pointing out that his skeletal companion would have to spend a feat to wear Full Plate.

Grave-Bound Archetype wrote:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A skeletal companion is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).


Okay, got an idea. Take your skeleton, tar and feather him. Really get that tar on thick. Hot tar clings. It isn't going to come off easily, and Reginald is going to be keeping that tar for himself inside the suit. You can go a bit easy on the feathers, but you may want to concentrate them around the face and what would be hair.

Allow to cool. Shape it a bit to more accord with a normal human form.

Suit him up. The bluff is that your compadre was tarred and feathered by the villain (or someone who it is convenient to say would tar and feather a brave knight or whatnot.)

Poor sir Reginald's mouth was damaged in the tarring, he cannot speak. He is very sensitive about his horribly warped and tarred body, so he stays under the plate. Occasionally a feather will get out, this only reinforces the story.


Or just be like, "Yeah it's a skeleton." And just deal with the crap as it hits the fan.

I mean, honestly, fighting bandits or fight in people who attacked you without justifiable provocation in self-defense.

In the end of the day, exp and loot is exp and loot. It's not like the GM isn't gonna find SOMETHING for you to fight.

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