What the heck would Craft(eggs) do? It doesn't need a craft skill to just lay them...Peter Carl Fabergé did take the Feat Skill Focus (Craft Eggs) :-)
Peter_Carl_Fabergé
Linkified. You must be from Germany.
Here's the english version
Here's a sample egg
/cevah
The druid could also confuse people by wild shaping into an eagle and having the eagle take the druid's shape. Who's the real druid now?I thought of a combo last night: druid with bear animal companion with eagle familiar decoy archetype and druid takes telepathic bond feat.
Now the druid can be in two places at once, running a meeting with the fey court at one end of the forest and staking out a goblin lair with the party at the other! :)
So many npc / villain options too!
Have you read this thread since you posted this?
It's all "oceans Eleven" and "bestiality" now. With monkeys!
What have you done.
On a more serious note. What was your intention with the Mauler archetype's size increase? Tiny to medium gets a +8, or did you have something else in mind? I understand you're not providing a FAQ, but at my table we tend to go with RAI over RAW except when it prevents something cool from happening.
Rule of cool wins out.
The druid could also confuse people by wild shaping into an eagle and having the eagle take the druid's shape. Who's the real druid now?I thought of a combo last night: druid with bear animal companion with eagle familiar decoy archetype and druid takes telepathic bond feat.
Now the druid can be in two places at once, running a meeting with the fey court at one end of the forest and staking out a goblin lair with the party at the other! :)
So many npc / villain options too!
Have you read this thread since you posted this?
It's all "oceans Eleven" and "bestiality" now. With monkeys!
What have you done.
On a more serious note. What was your intention with the Mauler archetype's size increase? Tiny to medium gets a +8, or did you have something else in mind? I understand you're not providing a FAQ, but at my table we tend to go with RAI over RAW except when it prevents something cool from happening.
Rule of cool wins out.
As I mentioned, it should use the polymorph table for size changing effects. To my recollection, nothing ever uses that monster size advancement table except for a GM advancing monsters, as a guideline (since sometimes it produces really weird results).
So again, based on the polymorph rules the Tiny to Small change nets your familiar a +4 Str bonus, a -2 Dex penalty and provides no change to Con. So, for example an Owl familiar with the Mauler archetype at level 3 has a natural strength of 7 (+1 to Str at 3rd level) and it's battle form makes it Str 12, Dex 15. Since familiars naturally make attacks based on Str or Dex, whichever's better, it has 2 talon attacks with their master's BAB, +2 (Dex) and dealing 1d8+1 each!
If the master is, say, a kobold fighter (eldritch guardian)3 with a bite attack that he's weapon focused in, he's riding the bird is so:
Melee x2 talon +6 (1d8+1)
Melee bite (from master who also has Weapon Finesse) +7 (1d3+1) and shortsword +7 (1d4+1)
Avg damage/round: 16
Yeah, I like everything that's happening here.
You do know that fighters don't get those feats, right? They get the proficiency. If they had the actual feats, then they'd be able to retrain them out (either via their class ability or the retraining rules).
Who would want Martial Weapon Proficiency (short bows) when they could have Power Attack instead (and they don't even happen to use short bows)?
As such, your familiar doesn't get them I'm afraid.
If they could retrain out of them - they would just get the same options to pick from again, namely their proficiencies. A Wizard can't retrain their Scribe Scroll to anything nor can an Alchemist retrain Brew Potion despite them being feats.
But you are right - weapon proficiencies aren't actually feats when granted by classes. (Half-elfs however do get the feat as a racial trait!) But it doesn't really matter - outsiders get Martial proficiency for free and most familiars have decent Natural Weapons.
However!
Consider the following line of the Armour Proficiency feats:
You are skilled at wearing medium armor.
Prerequisite: Light Armor Proficiency.
Benefit: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Normal: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Special: Barbarians, clerics, druids, fighters, paladins, and rangers automatically have Medium Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.
Thoughts :)?
They do not get the feat.
Darn. That'll teach me for trusting the Core Rules!
Of course. Everyone knows that the only trustworthy sources are anonymous internet posts with no explanation or citation. Relying on anything else is just asking for trouble. I mean, come on.
Indeed!
As I mentioned, it should use the polymorph table for size changing effects. To my recollection, nothing ever uses that monster size advancement table except for a GM advancing monsters, as a guideline (since sometimes it produces really weird results).The druid could also confuse people by wild shaping into an eagle and having the eagle take the druid's shape. Who's the real druid now?I thought of a combo last night: druid with bear animal companion with eagle familiar decoy archetype and druid takes telepathic bond feat.
Now the druid can be in two places at once, running a meeting with the fey court at one end of the forest and staking out a goblin lair with the party at the other! :)
So many npc / villain options too!
Have you read this thread since you posted this?
It's all "oceans Eleven" and "bestiality" now. With monkeys!
What have you done.
On a more serious note. What was your intention with the Mauler archetype's size increase? Tiny to medium gets a +8, or did you have something else in mind? I understand you're not providing a FAQ, but at my table we tend to go with RAI over RAW except when it prevents something cool from happening.
Rule of cool wins out.
I understand you mentioned before. The problem is the size change from small to medium relies upon the polymorph effect being used. Battleform gives a +2 to Str in addition to all other size bonus'. So in playtesting did your players just add 6 to the Str of their tiny familiars when going to medium size or am I missing something. +6 to Str isn't enough to make any of the base familiars combat viable, hence my confusion.
My apologies for not being more clear.
As I mentioned, it should use the polymorph table for size changing effects. To my recollection, nothing ever uses that monster size advancement table except for a GM advancing monsters, as a guideline (since sometimes it produces really weird results).
You sure about that? Maybe you should check with the other developers. It wouldn't be the first thing that was changed from what the original writers intended.
I'm very entertained by the idea of an Eldritch Guardian archer with a Mauler monkey familiar. Just drop a spare bow and quiver on the ground and the monkey can be doing just as much Rapid Shot/Multishot nonsense as you!
Consider a range-focused PC with an Emissary familiar. This thing sits on their shoulder providing either a +1 to their attack or a +1 to their save every round while they happily plunk away with their chosen ranged attack. They get 2 shots at a Will save (decent for rogues) and once a day they can throw you a strength surge or whatever from a Domain power. It's like having a targeting system in your ear.
Also if you want an archetype that appears to be legal for an improved familiar, look at the School familiars. This archetype doesn't seem to modify anything. Also take a look at the Evocation school familiar's greater power. It seems to suggest that, if you act quickly you might load up your familiar with multiple low level damage spells.
Now obviously it can only release 1 at a time, but imagine a familiar loaded up with say three empowered burning hands spells dealing 5d4+10 each. You could then jump into a room, unleash a fireball, if you're high enough level drop a quickened burning hands AND your familiar could drop one of its burning hands as well. That's... kind of ridonculous.
Anyway if you've got an improved familiar and an arcane school focus, this might be a way to go.
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I'm very entertained by the idea of an Eldritch Guardian archer with a Mauler monkey familiar. Just drop a spare bow and quiver on the ground and the monkey can be doing just as much Rapid Shot/Multishot nonsense as you!
Ok I've heard this many times before... can monkeys really wield weapons by RAW?
Edit: mauler archetype monkey in battle form i.e. medium size with bow in his hand = planet of the apes?
for PFS I think it's a no. Outside PFS I don't think there's any ruling.
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I'm very entertained by the idea of an Eldritch Guardian archer with a Mauler monkey familiar. Just drop a spare bow and quiver on the ground and the monkey can be doing just as much Rapid Shot/Multishot nonsense as you!Ok I've heard this many times before... can monkeys wield weapons by RAW?
By default no. However, familiars are much more intelligent than companions, and are specifically sentient. A monkey has the necessary limbs for wielding a weapon, and the Eldritch Guardian shares all combat feats with their familiar. Weapon Proficiency is a combat feat.
By default no. However, familiars are much more intelligent than companions, and are specifically sentient. A monkey has the necessary limbs for wielding a weapon, and the Eldritch Guardian shares all combat feats with their familiar. Weapon Proficiency is a combat feat.
Weapon Proficiency may be a combat feat, but it's not typically one an Eldritch Guardian possesses.
The free proficiencies from your classes are NOT feats! Therefore, your familiar does not get them, even with the archetype.
So take a feat as the fighter for the monkey. Fighters usually have feats to spare anyways.
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So take a feat as the fighter for the monkey. Fighters usually have feats to spare anyways.
Alternatively, save yourself the feat and have the familiar retrain its feat out for proficiency. In can do that with its higher intelligence. Takes a little money and time, but is usually a better deal.
It never occurred to me that a familiar could retrain like a PC. Not sure how well it is supported rules-wise, but that is an interesting thought.
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You do know that fighters don't get those feats, right? They get the proficiency. If they had the actual feats, then they'd be able to retrain them out (either via their class ability or the retraining rules).
Who would want Martial Weapon Proficiency (short bows) when they could have Power Attack instead (and they don't even happen to use short bows)?
As such, your familiar doesn't get them I'm afraid.
If they could retrain out of them - they would just get the same options to pick from again, namely their proficiencies. A Wizard can't retrain their Scribe Scroll to anything nor can an Alchemist retrain Brew Potion despite them being feats.
But you are right - weapon proficiencies aren't actually feats when granted by classes. (Half-elfs however do get the feat as a racial trait!) But it doesn't really matter - outsiders get Martial proficiency for free and most familiars have decent Natural Weapons.
However!
Consider the following line of the Armour Proficiency feats:
Thoughts :)?You are skilled at wearing medium armor.
Prerequisite: Light Armor Proficiency.
Benefit: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Normal: See Armor Proficiency, Light.
Special: Barbarians, clerics, druids, fighters, paladins, and rangers automatically have Medium Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.
My thoughts are:
This FAQ addressed the fighter's class ability to learn a new feat in place of another feat. The FAQ clarified that the weapon and armor proficiency feats cannot be retrained that way. I would treat this ruling with extreme prejudice in regards to anything not related to the fighter's ability to retrain combat feats.
The fighter DOES have those proficiencies, and the Eldritch Guardian explicitly states that the familiar can use any combat feat possessed by the Eldritch Guardian.
Look at the headings for the following feats. The heading clearly indicates that they are Combat feats:
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Combat)
Armor Proficiency, Heavy (Combat)
The idea that somehow, a fighter cannot share martial weapon proficiency with his familiar because he's good with ALL martial weapons instead of just ONE is completely ludicrous, and an obvious misinterpretation of a FAQ that is not applicable to this case.
I don't think it's possible. Technically, Alertness is not a feat that the familiar possesses, but it grants it to the master under certain conditions. You would need to burn a feat to give proficiency, which is actually slightly painful in this case since you lose 2 levels worth of fighter bonus feats.
That said, the look on the GM's face when the 6th level fighter + monkey fire off 8 arrows per round before Haste? Priceless.
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Avoron: this is in the context of fighter retraining. This FAQ is not a holy document that was meant to address any future inventions of the design team: it was meant to address the fighter's ability to swap feats at certain levels. "Does not grant" is not equal to "does not possess", as silly as it might look at first glance. In essence, the FAQ clarifies that martial weapon or armor proficiency feats do not enter the "feats pool" of the fighter for purposes of retraining. They CERTAINLY count for the purpose of meeting feats or PrC prerequisites! They count, therefore they exist, therefore they are shared to the familiar.
Serisan: there's nothing in the monkey familiar stats that leads me to believe they can wield weapons. I've never attempted to stat out a monkey familiar OR baboon animal companion so maybe there's a corner rule in one of the books I don't know about?
As GM, I'd probably say no they can't wield weapons. They don't really use their thumbs and fingers the same way as people do.
But it seems like 3.x had a magic glove that provided opposable thumbs to allow creatures to wield weapons. Hmm... Not sure now. That may have been a house creation.
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So any word on what a 'living' homunculus is or if you can have a tumor familiar and a familiar at the same time? I have a fun idea that I'd like to show off, but I need rulings on this. As far as I can tell, it'd mean they were constructs with the 'half' construct template, but that doesn't really make perfect sense.
As GM, I'd probably say no they can't wield weapons. They don't really use their thumbs and fingers the same way as people do.
But it seems like 3.x had a magic glove that provided opposable thumbs to allow creatures to wield weapons. Hmm... Not sure now. That may have been a house creation.
An alchemist could use a Tentacle (no fingers) to wield a bow/gun/sling. It works as well as an actual arm. A monkey seems better off than that IMO.
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So any word on what a 'living' homunculus
I've been holding off because this one is more complicated. I can't comment in a way that's more than speculation to the homunculist because my clarification was cut, likely but not certainly to copyfit. However, I will post a rundown of how it started, but I'm using my Rogue Eidolon alias because as much as my clarifications weren't official FAQs before, this is completely and utterly unofficial. With that out of the way, here's the rundown of how it went (and how I'll run it in my games):
Life Given Form (Ex): If the homunculist takes the Improved Familiar feat, he may only select the homunculus. Despite being of type construct, a homunculist’s homunculus is actually a living creature with 10 Constitution, losing all construct traits.
In other words, you could take Improved Familiar to get a homunculus, but if you did, since your special creation is alive, you get a living creature with 10 Con and no construct traits. With this text gone, now if you take Improved Familiar and select homunculus, you're going to get the non-living one by RAW, but hopefully that at least resolves the ambiguity about what's supposed to happen if you don't do that.
An alchemist could use a Tentacle (no fingers) to wield a bow/gun/sling. It works as well as an actual arm. A monkey seems better off than that IMO.As GM, I'd probably say no they can't wield weapons. They don't really use their thumbs and fingers the same way as people do.
But it seems like 3.x had a magic glove that provided opposable thumbs to allow creatures to wield weapons. Hmm... Not sure now. That may have been a house creation.
True, but I don't think the tentacle should work either.
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An alchemist could use a Tentacle (no fingers) to wield a bow/gun/sling. It works as well as an actual arm. A monkey seems better off than that IMO.As GM, I'd probably say no they can't wield weapons. They don't really use their thumbs and fingers the same way as people do.
But it seems like 3.x had a magic glove that provided opposable thumbs to allow creatures to wield weapons. Hmm... Not sure now. That may have been a house creation.
So does that mean a Blue Ringed Octopus can wield weapons?
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So any word on what a 'living' homunculusI've been holding off because this one is more complicated. I can't comment in a way that's more than speculation to the homunculist because my clarification was cut, likely but not certainly to copyfit. However, I will post a rundown of how it started, but I'm using my Rogue Eidolon alias because as much as my clarifications weren't official FAQs before, this is completely and utterly unofficial. With that out of the way, here's the rundown of how it went (and how I'll run it in my games):
** spoiler omitted **...
I do appreciate you commenting on this, even if it's not official since intent is pretty important and I don't play PFS so I'm not going to NEED this info to do anything with. So it's a construct but with no construct traits (which would work fine for me, since it's a created life form)? Does it gain the traits of its base type (animal in the case of hedgehog?)
Also while I've got you here, what's the word on 'alternative' familiars, such as the three main types:
Homunculist' Homunculus
Alchemist/Bloodrager Tumor Familiar
Standard Familiar (from the feat, arcane bond, etc)
Can one character have more than one of these (since at the very least, tumor familiar has different text and works differently in several different ways). Me myself, I figured the Homunculist's homunculus and standard familiar were basically the same, but tumor has some different text that makes it seem different from the others.
I just want to make sure my guide is 100% accurate, so I don't want to be giving advice that isn't great.
True, but I don't think the tentacle should work either.An alchemist could use a Tentacle (no fingers) to wield a bow/gun/sling. It works as well as an actual arm. A monkey seems better off than that IMO.As GM, I'd probably say no they can't wield weapons. They don't really use their thumbs and fingers the same way as people do.
But it seems like 3.x had a magic glove that provided opposable thumbs to allow creatures to wield weapons. Hmm... Not sure now. That may have been a house creation.
Would you think twice about a monkey picking pockets or using slight of hand, actions I personally think require more hand use than a weapon? The official listing for monkeys Body Type is "Biped (hands)" so the game thinks they have hands for game rules. [Animal Archive] It also points out that they can use all slots of magic items. That's include gloves.
So does that mean a Blue Ringed Octopus can wield weapons?
Myself, I'd allow them to underwater. They are amazing creature that can use tools. However, the RAW is that they are of the Verminous body type and aren't counted as having hand.
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So any word on what a 'living' homunculusI've been holding off because this one is more complicated. I can't comment in a way that's more than speculation to the homunculist because my clarification was cut, likely but not certainly to copyfit. However, I will post a rundown of how it started, but I'm using my Rogue Eidolon alias because as much as my clarifications weren't official FAQs before, this is completely and utterly unofficial. With that out of the way, here's the rundown of how it went (and how I'll run it in my games):
** spoiler omitted **...
I do appreciate you commenting on this, even if it's not official since intent is pretty important and I don't play PFS so I'm not going to NEED this info to do anything with. So it's a construct but with no construct traits (which would work fine for me, since it's a created life form)? Does it gain the traits of its base type (animal in the case of hedgehog?)
Also while I've got you here, what's the word on 'alternative' familiars, such as the three main types:
Homunculist' Homunculus
Alchemist/Bloodrager Tumor Familiar
Standard Familiar (from the feat, arcane bond, etc)Can one character have more than one of these (since at the very least, tumor familiar has different text and works differently in several different ways). Me myself, I figured the Homunculist's homunculus and standard familiar were basically the same, but tumor has some different text that makes it seem different from the others.
I just want to make sure my guide is 100% accurate, so I don't want to be giving advice that isn't great.
If I was just going to shoot completely RAI as to the type, with no basis in the text, I might say it would be type Animal (augmented construct) because you as a homunculist are just that badass. You created an actual animal in your lab. You go!
Homunculist's homunculus says it functions in all ways as familiar, so tumor is really the odd man out. That said—good news!—Tumor is in the Pathfinder RPG line, so if you give it a separate thread and get enough FAQ clicks (to be clear, only include Tumor + regular familiar in it so that it is a question about the Pathfinder RPG line of books), I can get that one answered for you in a FAQ!
Would you think twice about a monkey picking pockets or using slight of hand, actions I personally think require more hand use than a weapon? The official listing for monkeys Body Type is "Biped (hands)" so the game thinks they have hands for game rules. [Animal Archive] It also points out that they can use all slots of magic items. That's include gloves. ...True, but I don't think the tentacle should work either.An alchemist could use a Tentacle (no fingers) to wield a bow/gun/sling. It works as well as an actual arm. A monkey seems better off than that IMO.As GM, I'd probably say no they can't wield weapons. They don't really use their thumbs and fingers the same way as people do.
But it seems like 3.x had a magic glove that provided opposable thumbs to allow creatures to wield weapons. Hmm... Not sure now. That may have been a house creation.
I would probably be ok with stealing something. It's not really hand use it is thumb use. A lot of weapon use is going to involve pushing, twisting, rotating, and levering actions. The thumb is necessary for that.
Monkeys do have a thumb, but iirc it is their smallest and weakest digit because they really don't use it that much. Try using a bow with your thumb by your index finger rather than wrapped around the grip. Heck just try using a steak knife to cut you steak while leaving your thumb up next to your index finger. Not necessarily impossible, but very difficult. Definitely not very strong or secure.
Since it is a fantasy game, I don't know that I wouldn't allow it, but I would be leaning that way. If the group was one that tried to include a fair amount of logic and reasoning in their game world, I would disallow. If it was a more laid back group that just wanted to do what sounded neat, I would probably allow it to work.
But I certainly think a tentacle should not work. They pull and grasp tremendously. But without bones there is a very severe limit to the forces they could apply in any other direction. But it is a fantasy game and there is already a precedent for allowing them to work. { sigh } For some reason I was not consulted.
What about a spear weilding chimp?
Mildly interesting. I would never deny that apes and monkeys are primitive tool users. I saw nothing in that video to indicate or imply 'wielding' as we are currently using the term in the context of combat with a weapon.
Couldn't you just give an ioun stone that gave them proficiency in a weapon?
Under the animal type, there's this little sentence that could take some wind out of the sails of those who wish for a monkey archer pal:
"Proficient with its natural weapons only.[...]"
There is a blog post on intelligent animals. This is from the attached thread.
In the end, if you want monkeys in your game wielding greatswords and using wands, thats fine. Its your game (Core Rulebook, page 9). The rules are relatively unclear so we left that door open at this time. Its not really what I envision the druid being about (and there are serious power balance issues to be considered, which is why many consider the druid to be terribly unbalanced), but for now anyway, the rules leave it open.
The rulings on this where left open, letting the individual DM's to allow/disallow weapon/wand use. There IS no right answer. I suggest anyone that's curious to check out the blog and thread if interested.
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For those who want familiars to wield weapons via Eldritch Guardian archetype, I've come to the realization that in the absence of a FAQ that lets monkeys wield weapons, you might want to go the way of Decoy instead of Mauler familiar archetype, although you'll have to wait to level 11 before your familiar is effective. It is limited to 11 minutes per day however, so extremely limited.
However, at level 11, as per alter self the decoy takes the humanoid type, and the size increase from tiny to small gives +4 STR. Above and beyond that, the alter self spell gives the decoy another 2pt. of STR or DEX, depending on size, so that's good news for those who wish to make an archer build - i.e. go halfing go!
"Small creature: If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity.
Medium creature: If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength."
In addition the humanoid type gives the decoy this:
"HUMANOID
A humanoid usually has two arms, two legs, and one head, or a human-like torso, arms, and a head. [...]
Proficient with all simple weapons, [...]"
Therefore, those who insist that martial proficiency is not passed to the familiar still have the option of making a build based on a simple weapon (heavy mace, longspear, light crossbow, etc.)
The question is: can the decoy assume humanoid shape only once per day or in increments of 1 minute?
Alter Self does not give you proficiencies. It is a Transmutation Polymorph spell. This gives you proficiency in the natural attacks of the creature only. So, no joy about proficiency in all simple weapons.
/cevah
I'm not quite sure, but since the Mauler Familiar Archetype replaces "speak with animals" and "speak with master", Improved Familiars do not qualify for the Mauler Archetype;
This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.
Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).
Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).
Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their Kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).
Why not? it only stops them from speaking.
We seriously need an answer on if different 'kinds' of familiars can be owned by the same character, and if so, if taking a feat for familiars effects all of them. It might just affect familiars that are 'actual' familiars, unlike the Homunculus and Tumor Familiar, although from everything I've seen, Tumor Familiars are treated like normal familiars for most things.
Because Homunculist can get a Homunculus familiar as a class feature (that gets some nice bonuses), a tumor familiar, AND a regular familiar with either Eldritch Heritage or Familiar Bond.
I'd love to make a 3x familiar build, but I might post a very nice Homunculist build later.
You can only have one familiar. Read eldritch heritage the read the wizards arcane bond.