I'm actually quite interested to know whether the figment familiar is intended to work with the shaman, since a witch (and by logical extension also the unlettered arcanist and familiar adept) is excluded from taking one. I guess that the principal argument for enforcing the ban would be that the familiar-needed-for-spell-preparation is in play as some sort of balancing factor, but unlike the witch's familiar the shaman's doesn't actually store the spells known, so it's not like you're risking the investment of scrolls and borrowed spellbooks. Besides, having a dream guide, possibly representing the primal nature of your soul or your personal spirit, seems very much in line with the shaman's flavor!
So is the shaman's familiar (or I guess I should say spirit animal) allowed to take this archetype, or was it just written before the ACG classes really got any traction (seems like those classes are slow to get into the player companion line?)?
Carnivalist & Eldritch Guardian combine nicely.
Share Sneak & Combat Feats (in particular Teamwork Feats).
Outflank, Precise Strike. Paired Opportunists. Combat Reflexes
Evolved Familiar to get reach...
hm...
Human:
1 Fig1 Outflank, Combat Reflexes
2 Fig2
3 Rog1 Precise Strike
4 Rog2
5 Rog3 Improved Familiar
6 Rog4
7 Fig3 Evolved Familiar
8 Bra1
9 Fig4 Paired Opportunist, Power Attack
I recommend a Pseudodragon for reach and until then a hawk with the mauler archetype.
I'm actually quite interested to know whether the figment familiar is intended to work with the shaman, since a witch (and by logical extension also the unlettered arcanist and familiar adept) is excluded from taking one. I guess that the principal argument for enforcing the ban would be that the familiar-needed-for-spell-preparation is in play as some sort of balancing factor, but unlike the witch's familiar the shaman's doesn't actually store the spells known, so it's not like you're risking the investment of scrolls and borrowed spellbooks. Besides, having a dream guide, possibly representing the primal nature of your soul or your personal spirit, seems very much in line with the shaman's flavor!
So is the shaman's familiar (or I guess I should say spirit animal) allowed to take this archetype, or was it just written before the ACG classes really got any traction (seems like those classes are slow to get into the player companion line?)?
This was written before the ACG even came out. In fact, I wrote the figment juuuust before I officially started with Paizo, and so before I had a pdf copy of the ACG (if you're wondering, the bloodrager part was added later in development). If it was being written post-ACG, it really shouldn't work with the shaman either, since a dream guide does make sense, but it wouldn't be a figment of the shaman's imagination (but hey, a dream guide from your spirit/patron as you've described is fertile ground for a new familiar archetype, I think!). That said, like a lot of things that call out classes by name, it doesn't have the shaman listed.
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What's the best rogue build you can assemble with a familiar?
Getting a familiar will take you 2 feats with this book (Iron Will, Familiar Bond -- as a non-casting rogue you won't need Improved Familiar Bond) which is MUCH better than the one you get via rogue talent (i.e. Prerequisite: Advanced talents, major magic talent, minor magic talent; Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a familiar [...] effective wizard level is her rogue level –4. )
A rogue with a familiar could as well take the Far-Roaming Familiar feat (retain your empathic link to your familiar regardless of distance, and at short distances, even through lead) --> a rogue with this and a cape of mountebank could be a serious infiltration freak and no prison would hold him/her... :)
Of course, the Mauler familiar archetype would mean a good flanking buddy, so extremely good combo for damage-oriented rogues!
Emissary familiar archetype grants the master a Will save reroll once a day, so extremely good for rogues.
Finally, my favorite is the Decoy familiar achetype (not for damage builds but there's no end to the fun I'd have with this...) In case you don't know, a decoy can transform into a perfect likeness of its master... and since Familiars share all skill ranks with the master, this means the rogue can effectively show up at meetings with a perfect twin for a diplomacy assist, or send the familiar down the hall to open a locked door, etc. etc. etc. or even use....... WANDS!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
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Great combo! wow! (I get the sharing of combat feats... but how do you share Sneak feats?)Carnivalist & Eldritch Guardian combine nicely.
Share Sneak & Combat Feats (in particular Teamwork Feats).
Carnivalist shares sneak attack with it's familiar, so both you and your familiar use the same sneak attack dice.
a humble NPC build for kobolds; note the familiar is the Mauler archetype.
Kobold Rider
LE female humanoid (reptilian) adept 2/warrior 1
Str 10, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10
Initiative +2; Senses: Darkvision 60’; Perception +1
HP 15 (2d6 plus 1d10+3)
AC 19; Touch 13; Flat Footed 17 (Armor +3, Dex +2, Natural +1, Shield +2, Size +1)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +3
Weakness: Light Sensitivity
Melee mwk shortsword +6 (1d4)
Ranged mwk shortbow +6 (1d6)
Spells (CL 2; concentration +3)
1st Bless, Burning Hands (DC 12), Obscuring Mist
0th Detect Magic, Guidance, Resistance
Skills Perception +5, Ride +6, Stealth +10
Feats Boon Companion, Weapon Finesse
Gear: mwk studded leather, mwk heavy shield, x10 scrolls: 1st Cure Light Wounds (x3), Cause Fear (DC 12), Comprehend Languages, Protection from Good (x2), 2nd Mirror Image (CL 4), Bull’s Strength (x2), mwk leather barding, mwk shortsword, mwk shortbow, 20 arrows
Familiar: Goaty McHornandhooves
HP 7
AC 15
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +3
Melee +4 gore (1d6 +4)
Feats Power Attack
Before combat: Bless, Protection from Good on both kobold and familiar, Bull’s Strength on both kobold and familiar, Resistance on both kobold and rider. Kobold now has +1 to all attacks, +2 to melee weapon damage, AC +2 (versus good), all saves +1 (+3 versus fear effects). Familiar now has +3 on gore attack, +2 to damage, AC +2 (versus good), all saves +1 (+3 versus fear effects).
In combat: Kobold stays at range as much as possible; uses cover and difficult terrain to his advantage. If not killed at range but enemies advance, use Obscuring Mist and then buff more: Mirror Image on familiar, Guidance on familiar. Once melee is inevitable if all buffs are up goat attacks with +8 on first attack dealing 1d6+6 while kobold attacks with shortsword +7 dealing 1d6+2.
Not a bad mini-boss or elite guard to use in a kobold-themed adventure. You could use this general build with a little tweaking to represent a master and familiar, a cavalier, a paladin or even a ranger.
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uh........ I'm starting to think this book has solved all the rogues' problems... did anyone notice Carnivalist grants sneak attack to the familiar? I'm sure most of you know this but for those who are a bit late to the party like me... just wow! a Mauler archetype familiar here means your rogue is always in flank (Mauler is Medium sized) and applies his sneak attack 3 more times per round (say if your familiar is a cat with claw claw bite...)
Yes, only 3d6 sneak at level 10 instead of 5d6, but you apply it all the time, and your kitty cat does it too... so rogue with TWF gets it 3 times, cat gets it 3 times... that's 18d6 right there on a full attack...
"Sneak Attack (Ex)
A carnivalist gains this ability starting at 2nd level. The sneak attack damage dealt is 1d6 points at 2nd level, and increases by 1d6 points every 4 carnivalist levels thereafter. A carnivalist's familiar can also deal sneak attack damage as appropriate to foes as long as it is within 30 feet of her (though only Small and larger creatures may flank enemies, as usual)."
EDIT: ninja'ed by Imbicatus! LOL
Do remember you need 3 levels of Carnivalist (or Eldritch Guardian + Carnivalist) to get Mauler medium-size.
Is the Carnivalist the same as in Animal Archive?
this is all way more impressive than what got me excited.
I got happy for my bloodrager with a protector familiar because it would be a fairly large hp buff. I'm pretty simple sometimes.
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Contributor
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Easy 5-step process to make any familiar a top-notch mauler!
1. Be an alchemist
2. Get Feral Mutagen
3. Get Tumor Familiar
4. Get Evolved Familiar (pounce)
5. Give your raccoon his drink
I would add a sixth step of watching your foes perish, but I presume they're dead already from the sight of a mutagen-enhanced giant raccoon.
Weird, that mutagens AND extracts count as spells for share spell's purposes. Now I know why.
EDIT: Note that homunculist doesn't gain a tumor familiar specifically, so while it gains a bunch of evolutions for free, it doesn't give the ability to feed your familiar your mutagen. :(
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Normal is shape-changing effects, polymorph subschool section. You get nothing for going from Small to Medium. +7 at level 3. That effect should have also said it was a polymorph effect.All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.
Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.
That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?
Excellent! this means the familiar has been polymorphed into a different Medium sized creature, which means we can then cast Enlarge Person (not with the polymorph descriptor) via Share Spells on the Medium sized familiar to make it Large, right?
Cat Sith on hind legs for a natural reach of 10 ft? :)
quote "They’re capable of easily walking balanced on just their hind legs and wearing magic boots." unquote
:)
This carnivalist idea is getting better and better... plus the carnivalist seems to retain trapfinding... hmmm... :)
major magic "enlarge person" rogue talent or should I make a one level dip into wizard? looks like a dip in inevitable unless you wish to wait to level 8 and 10 for minor magic and major magic rogue talents...
...and dip improves your Will save by 2 and gives you a bunch 0 and 1st level spells..
Q: Now what type of wizard (school and archetype) would one recommend for a Wizard 1 / Rogue (Carnivalist) 19 with Cat Sith Mauler Archetype familiar?
Very interesting...
Ok, I think I'm going to have to get this book and make an albino tengu with a white battle chicken familiar.
You could go Spirit Binder Wizard + Carnivalist Rogue into Arcane Trickster. Not sure how good the familiar will be after not advancing it with AT, though...
Nevermind, the Spirit Binder does not mix well with any other class.
Purple Dragon Knight, I don't think that would work since polymorph says "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
The only wiggle room would be trying to say it's a polymorph effect, but not a polymorph spell. But literally every rule under the polymorph header says polymorph spell, including all the stat adjustments. So you've have to be both very pedantic and read very selectively.
There's also another rule in the CRB that prevents stacking two effects that change size, no matter what they may be, for instance in enlarge person itself:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
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You could go Spirit Binder Wizard + Carnivalist Rogue into Arcane Trickster. Not sure how good the familiar will be after not advancing it with AT, though...
Nevermind, the Spirit Binder does not mix well with any other class.
AT doesn't improve familiars... otherwise yes it would be a sick combo, especially with Impromptu Sneak Attack
I think I have to look into Feral Hunter's with the crocodile domain and a mauler.
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Purple Dragon Knight, I don't think that would work since polymorph says "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
The only wiggle room would be trying to say it's a polymorph effect, but not a polymorph spell. But literally every rule under the polymorph header says polymorph spell, including all the stat adjustments. So you've have to be both very pedantic and read very selectively.There's also another rule in the CRB that prevents stacking two effects that change size, no matter what they may be, for instance in enlarge person itself:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
..but, but, but.... I thought this wording was only to prevent stacking of Enlarge Person and Righteous Might (i.e. spells that basically alter your size). Righteous Might has the same wording btw: "Magical effects that increase size do not stack." [sad eyes... hoping that a polymorphed creature could still benefit from Enlarge Person... ;) ]
Be an aberrant bloodrager with a defender tumor familiar. At level 1 the familiar kann increase your AC. From level 5 on you can split damage between you and the familiar while the familiar has fast healing 5.
For added fun: Make it a dwarf and take an octopus as tumor familiar which you attach to your chin so the tentacles come out of your beard to defend you using bodyguard.
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Purple Dragon Knight, I don't think that would work since polymorph says "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
The only wiggle room would be trying to say it's a polymorph effect, but not a polymorph spell. But literally every rule under the polymorph header says polymorph spell, including all the stat adjustments. So you've have to be both very pedantic and read very selectively.
Found it... you are right Sir!
"You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
However, the Mauler's Battle Form is a supernatural effect, not a spell-like effect! Huzzah!!!
Huzzah? right? :)
However, the Mauler's Battle Form is a supernatural effect, not a spell-like effect! Huzzah!!!
Huzzah? right? :)
I recently had the same issue with growth domain and Wildshape from Goliath Druid which wildshapes you into ahumanoid. I think by RAW it should work but there seems to be this standpoint: no you may never ever ever benefit from two polymorph effects you evil rules bending power gamer...
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Think of ALL the other ways to abuse the Mauler familiar archetype, what with shared feats, your BAB, Bull's Str and the like. Do you really need TWO size changes?
Frankly I just love making kobold NPCs with them! Adept 2 and you've got a familiar; Boon Companion and it's your level. Now add a ton of Warrior levels! You're full BAB -1, you have a couple 1st level spells, and you don't have a ton of feats but every combat one you have your Medium sized mount/familar has!
Kobolds riding swooping dinosaurs, riding medium-sized comp... dinosaurs with poisoned bites, or just riding medium sized rats that get a Climb AND Swim speed on top of their standard move...
OR... what about a mite with Vermin Empathy and a vermin familiar/Mauler archetype? It's normally got a crab familiar; now it's riding a medium sized crab of it's own, empathising with 2 more giant crabs and has Adept 2/warrior X behind it. This thing is firing poisoned crossbow bolts with vital strike from the shore of an underground lake and anyone foolish enough to get within reach of the crabs suffers x2 claw +14 (1d6+6 plus grab). Crab CMB is like +14 too and if the victim gets grabbed they're taking that damage plus drowning if it can move them far enough.
OMG that sounds awesome!
Familiars and their archetypes may be great for the heroes, but they're fantastic for the villains! Now you've got 2 viable combatants for the CR of one.
Think of ALL the other ways to abuse the Mauler familiar archetype, what with shared feats, your BAB, Bull's Str and the like. Do you really need TWO size changes?
Frankly I just love making kobold NPCs with them! Adept 2 and you've got a familiar; Boon Companion and it's your level. Now add a ton of Warrior levels! You're full BAB -1, you have a couple 1st level spells, and you don't have a ton of feats but every combat one you have your Medium sized mount/familar has!
Kobolds riding swooping dinosaurs, riding medium-sized comp... dinosaurs with poisoned bites, or just riding medium sized rats that get a Climb AND Swim speed on top of their standard move...
OR... what about a mite with Vermin Empathy and a vermin familiar/Mauler archetype? It's normally got a crab familiar; now it's riding a medium sized crab of it's own, empathising with 2 more giant crabs and has Adept 2/warrior X behind it. This thing is firing poisoned crossbow bolts with vital strike from the shore of an underground lake and anyone foolish enough to get within reach of the crabs suffers x2 claw +14 (1d6+6 plus grab). Crab CMB is like +14 too and if the victim gets grabbed they're taking that damage plus drowning if it can move them far enough.
OMG that sounds awesome!
Familiars and their archetypes may be great for the heroes, but they're fantastic for the villains! Now you've got 2 viable combatants for the CR of one.
I am so thrilled to see all the cool combinations you guys are coming up with like the mite riding a crab. One of my goals was to make some of the less-chosen familiars come out to play for different reasons, both flavor and mechanical (here's one example—bats are really cool, but the bonus to Fly makes them a less likely choice; however, for the synergist witch, the ability to gain blindsense and fly is among the best of the animals).
Xethik, are you concerned about BaB progression with Spirit Binder?
It's not clear to me whether "A soulbound familiar has the base attack bonus and base saving throws of the loved one’s favored class (using the spirit binder’s level as its level)." should only include Wizard levels, or if it's meant to be character level, like all other familiar BaB/save advancement. I assume the "stacks with wizard levels" clause in other familiar classes would still count, so Carnivalist would be fine.
That Familiar bonus feat at 1st level has a lot of dip potential.
Ooh good call on that Carnvalist text. As minoritorian mentioned, Carnivalist 2/Snakebite 1/Spirit Binder 1/AT X would be interesting. Not sure if a higher master BAB would override the Spirit Binder BAB clause, but hopefully.
Straight Carnivalist might be better, though. Better BAB and Strength on your Mauler. I can imagine the street magician with the monkey and minor magic. Except his monkey is something much worse in disguise.
Of course, Enlarge Person not working dents this a bit, but I think there's something worth looking into.
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here's one example—bats are really cool, but the bonus to Fly makes them a less likely choice; however, for the synergist witch, the ability to gain blindsense and fly is among the best of the animals
Excellent combo... the player who's playing small-sized tiefling witch in my party will love that one...
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here's one example—bats are really cool, but the bonus to Fly makes them a less likely choice; however, for the synergist witch, the ability to gain blindsense and fly is among the best of the animalsExcellent combo... the player who's playing small-sized tiefling witch in my party will love that one...
Apparently the "protean, voidworm" gives him everything the bat gives and more... so he's going with that with improved familiar at level 7
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voidworm abilities granted to synergist... please correct me if this is wrong:
at level 7 if you take Improved Familiar you are able to get the following:
- darkvision 60 feet
at level 8 you get:
- fly 60 feet (good maneuverability): the synergist can fly for a total of 1 minute per witch level she possesses per day while in symbiosis. This duration need not be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute intervals;
- darkvision 60 feet;
- Additionally, during symbiosis the synergist gains a single natural attack of a type possessed by its familiar. The attack deals 1d6 points of damage if a primary attack
(1d4 for Small synergists) and 1d4 points of damage if a secondary attack (1d3 for Small synergists). (i.e. in this case d4 for bite or d3 for tail slap - assuming the d6 for bite is a typo)
at level 11 you get:
- fly 90 feet (good maneuverability): unlimited
- blindsense 30 feet;
- darkvision 60 feet.
at level 14 you get:
- all natural attacks (bite + tail slap)
- fly 120 feet (good maneuverability): unlimited
- blindsense 60 feet;
- darkvision 90 feet;
- Resistance 20 to acid, electricity and sonic.
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Apparently the "protean, voidworm" gives him everything the bat gives and more... so he's going with that with improved familiar at level 7here's one example—bats are really cool, but the bonus to Fly makes them a less likely choice; however, for the synergist witch, the ability to gain blindsense and fly is among the best of the animalsExcellent combo... the player who's playing small-sized tiefling witch in my party will love that one...
Yep, the initial archetype specified animal only. With that no longer being the case, Improved Familiars are going to add more, but bat is still really solid if you don't go Improved Familiar.
Duettist with a Thrush or Raven Sage familiar looks like it would be fun. Trade it out for a Sith Cat or a PseudoSphynix at higher level.
Then again, I always liked the sassy familiars.
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Mark, can you comment on whether Improved Familiars are meant to be excluded from most of these new Archetypes? It seems like an oversight, like Cavalier mounts not being able to take archetypes because they don't share spells.
Between spending a feat, losing your familiar bonus (+4 Init, etc,) and losing the archetype bonus, Improved Familiar is looking thin.
In a magical world, you would also comment on the Improved Familiar caster level pre-reqs for non-arcane classes that get familiars. Hopefully just acknowledging that "effective wizard level" meets the pre-req.
Thanks!
My comments here are just my personal opinions as the author, not binding errata in any way. That said, I think that Improved Familiar is an incredibly strong option no matter what (indeed, the dominant option, and I've rarely if ever seen a familiar that didn't go improved at some point). So I wouldn't be too upset if there were now more reasons not to go Improved Familiar. Variety with cool options whichever way you go, adding more choices that are both effective and cool, makes the game more fun, I think, and making the best option better doesn't do so as much.
@Second question, that's one for the rules in general. I think that's it's probably at least true for something like Eldritch Heritage, but it's admittedly an interesting possible FAQ for everyone else.