advice on clerics


Advice


I really like the "support" role in rpgs and wanted to make one. I liked the idea and what I saw from clerics; upon further reading of forums it seemed like most people agreed that clerics made GREAT buffers and GREAT out of combat healers. and that if i wanted an IN-comat healer i should roll a life oracle.

I understand what they meant about all the buffs or debuffs but I dont see what makes clerics so good about out of combat healers. if anything the spontaneous healing power makes them better in combat healers than anything.

plz help, i know theres somethin im not seeing. thanks!


It's more that healing in combat isn't usually recommended because doing something else to cause or prevent damage would be even better.

Life oracles are mostly recommended as healers because they are so good at healing with less than standard actions. Which leaves them with standard actions to still do those more useful than healing things.


So as a cleric I should be buffing, then smacking stuff with my hammer? or just keep buffing. but ultimately save all my "cures" for after combat?


Cures and channeled energy are useful in-combat, it's just that a lot of people look at it from the perspective that the quicker the enemy is dead, the less damage they can inflict, so they focus on spells that support that. Unless you're engaging in some sort of competition, you can play your character however you want. =]

Personally, I think Clerics make very good healers in-combat, when the situation calls for it, but utility spells like Sanctuary or Command are usually more helpful in the midst of combat. Once you get Selective Channeling, healing becomes much better, btw, so if you want to go that route, make sure to grab it as soon as you can. Healing the enemy on accident is sure to get you dirty looks from your party.


My advice is take what is written in the ‘optimization’ forums with a grain of salt.

Clerics make very good healers (IN and out of combat) and buffers, and people willing to play one are welcome in most parties.

There are many roles a cleric can take on. This guide explains many of these roles and is well worth a read. Having said all that, the best way IMO is to just go ahead and make a cleric that you think will be fun for you. Then dive in!

Good luck!


Also remember your Summons. Summons are some of the most useful spells in the game. At least, after a few levels (Summon Monster at lv. 1 is very underwhelming.)

At its very basic, a summoned monster can absorb numerous attacks that would otherwise hit your allies, saving you considerable amounts of healing. It adds another ally attacking enemies in the battlefield, allowing for battlefield control and to set up flanking. But most importantly, look closely at the spell-like abilities of the more powerful celestial (Or fiendish, depending on your patron deity) creatures you can call upon. This essentially allows you to cast one spell in order to cast multiple other spells.

One big thing to note is that you'll need cover to summon in-combat. Summoning spells take 1 round to cast. Not a full-round action, one entire round. Meaning you start at your turn, and finish at the beginning of your next turn. During that time, you are open to enemy attacks, which could cause you to lose concentration and lose your spell if you take a nasty would and/or fail your concentration check. But the results are almost always worth it.


Spindoc wrote:


I understand what they meant about all the buffs or debuffs but I dont see what makes clerics so good about out of combat healers. if anything the spontaneous healing power makes them better in combat healers than anything.

Channeling is what makes clerics out of combat healers. Why waste a feat on selective channeling when you can just do it with no enemies around? Why heal for 1d8+5 damage when a good command spell can remove the need entirely?

The big reason life oracles are favored for healing is that any overhealing they do provides temporary hp meaning that a channel made at the start of combat provides a nice defensive buffer that can absorb one or two hits. If this channel is made into a move action it can be efficiently attacked with another buff spell.

Ultimately healing in and of itself is a highly inefficient strategy and is best kept in the back pocket for emergencies. For the most part as a support cleric you want to be buffing while attempting to position yourself into places where you can provide flanking bonuses and maybe do some damage here adn there to finish off weakened opponents.


Yours is mined wrote:
Clerics make very good healers (IN and out of combat) and buffers, and people willing to play one are welcome in most parties.

Indeed.

I actually like playing clerics. Partly its for these reasons and constantly helping other party members makes you really popular.

I also like their flexibility. Not only can they heal and buff, but they are good offensively against some sorts of creatures, notably undead if you channel positive energy.

I like to select domains [fire is a favorite] that give you more offensive capacity as well.

Finally, decent armour and ability to hit things means its no disaster if you wind up fighting hand to hand.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I love clerics. Str of 14 is enough to attack. Buffs, summon and defend. Channel is after combat heals


Yes healing in battle as a cleric is a bad idea 90% of the time because 1) you will almost never heal as much health as the enemy will take away, 2) healing out of battle costs you the same resources as in battle, and so on. Some builds like envoy of balance or variant channels that buff while giving moderate heal are worthwhile or even optimal but these must be looked at on a case by case basis. Even those clerics whose mainstay is channeling in battle for support reasons must be careful for they must conserve resources and it frequently is very feat intensive.


Prayer and Bless are classic buff spells, but at mid levels your Greater magic Weapon/ Magic Vestment can be handy as well. Best of luck with your support Cleric build.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

First define support better than buffing and healing.

Think on it...how else can support be done? Perhaps providing more attacks for your hammers in the group. Trigger loaded mention summoning and cuuniyevo mentioned the spell command. Some people dont realize those are forms of support.

Summoning provides an extra target which can take a shot or 2 in place of the team....no healing needed. They also come with spell like abilities to buff with spells like aid to save your spells. They also can be summoned straight into flank to help your hammer hit easier. Some can also smite to help bring in more damage. Lastly some come with auras which debuff enemies.

Command spells. How does a jedi mind trick count as support? Say it is round 2. Mob moves to your fighter and takes 1 swing since he moved....hits the fighter pretty hard. Now your fighter full attacks and didnt quiet drop him. Its now your turn before critters. You could throw out a useless buff for 1 round and see if your fighter can weather the full attack and heal him later....or you could command the critter to drop or approch you....provoking an AoO and possibly killing the critter without him doing more damage to the fighter. Means less healing and more attacks from your fighter. Giving a fighter another attack is supporting him.

So defining support as buffs and heals is an extremely limiting definition and limits how your thinking. Redefine it correctly and a whole new world opens up.


Life oracles are indeed a lot better at in-combat healing, I think. If you play an elf, half-elf, or aasimar you can use your FCBs to improve your channeling by 50%. You can also cast Cure spells as swift actions, and give temporary hit points with your healing.

Even clerics can get good action economy with channeling, though. With Quick Channel you can channel as a move action, and with a Quick Runner's Shirt or a Ring of Protected Life you can channel as a swift action. Granted, it costs resources to do all that.


I believe the idea that you always have something better to do in combat then healing is great in theory, not so true in practice. A selective channel at 3rd level can be healing 4D8+4 to allies. There are lots of occasions when a 3rd level cleric does not have anything more useful to do. This is equally true at other levels.

If your party has a good damage dealer, keeping him/her on her feet can be your best move. You may not be able to keep up with the opponents damage output, but it can still be the best option.


Haldrick wrote:

I believe the idea that you always have something better to do in combat then healing is great in theory, not so true in practice. A selective channel at 3rd level can be healing 4D8+4 to allies.

Where on earth do you get 4d8+4?

Silver Crusade

There are not many ways of powering-up channels. How does a 3rd level cleric get 4D8+4 (average 22) HP healing? Standard would be 2D6 (average 7). Even an Aasimar using the FCB & owning the very expensive Phylactery of Positive Channeling would only channel for 4D6+1 (average 15) HP. In few words, please explain how you got that number.

What Haldrick says about in-combat healing is true: sometimes it is the best thing to do. It's just that frequently there are better options. If one is totally focused on healing one can easily not notice these other options. Remember that preventing incoming damage is usually the most efficient way to heal. Actual healing is what you have to do when you fail to prevent the incoming damage in the first place.

Just yesterday I played a (first level) PFS scenario in which in-combat healing via channels made the difference between success and utter defeat. Usually, though, there are better things for a cleric to do.

Silver Crusade

Hey, I have a question that relates to the OPs original question.

How should a capable in-combat healer respond to stupid actions by allies?

Example: Party faces several big, nasty, grabby oozes with reach.

Cleric shouts, "Hey, those oozes are big and nasty, but also slow. We've locked them down so they can't move. We have lots of room to maneuver. Just stay back, and we'll safely kill them all from a distance with missile weapons. So long as you don't move close to them they can not hurt you! "

One party member ignores this advice and decides to charge the oozes. The first ooze takes it's AoO, rolls a 20, confirms, crits the character, then grabs and envelopes him. Party member is now in danger of death, and never got a chance to attack. Idiotic loose cannon begs for a rescue.

So, what's the best course of action? Is it better to risk the other party members, the non-stupid ones, to save the idiotic loose cannon? Or it better to let the idiot die, and hope the player learns a lesson and creates a non-idiot for their next character? If one rescues the idiot, one teaches him that his actions have no consequences ... Please posit an actual dangerous situation, where a rescue attempt is 50% likely to kill 1-3 more characters. Opinions?


To add to the above, don't heal if you're just patching up some wounds or topping off characters. It becomes far more important to heal if your primary combatants are close to falling below 0. Losing another damage dealer or spellcaster can be a devastating loss in combat. A downed character means there's damage not being done, or enemies attacking characters they shouldn't be. You lose out on action economy (More characters means more things being done in a round) and the most basic battlefield control. (Character there makes it harder for monsters to go around him, and represents a target to attack. No threat means more attacks on others of the party.)

Status is your friend when you get high-enough level to spare a casting. Keep a constant tally of where everyone's at, and note how hard certain monsters are hitting to judge when your allies need a heal.


Magda: Honestly, that seems like a sort of situation where you might be just as well off by responding in character.

Maybe you don't want to risk your party for one person who recklessly ran into battle, but can your character just let this person die, even if it is their own fault?

Silver Crusade

Agreed, an in-character response is the only way to handle it.

So how many times is it appropriate to rescue said idiot? Each time it happens it puts the entire party at risk. I'm usually soft-hearted about such things, but there's a limit. Particularly when it puts others at risk ...

I bring this up because my new character is encountering more than his share if such idiocy. His special power is to lock down foes, so they are immobilized. He'll say things like, "The [some horrible big monster] is locked down. It can't move at all. Just stay back from [some horrible big monster] and it can't hurt you at all. Our friendly archer over there can easily kill it." Yet characters (players? I don't think it's an RP thing ...) keep being stupid & moving close to the immobile foe, then get in trouble and need a [difficult, dangerous, painful, and expensive] rescue.

At what point does one say, "We're done letting your stupidity endanger us all!" ?


I'm clearly in the minority, but I don't agree Clerics are all that great. Let me explain:

•Buffing - In a low/no magic game, Cleric buffs are *amazing.* But most people don't play those games, because the game isn't good at supporting it without a LOT of modification, and most GMs aren't looking to make their hobby into their career. So what you more often find is that you have this huge spell list with tons of options that are majorly bad because most buffs you can throw out will not stack with the magic items that everyone is going after (namely, the "big 6").
Also, cast times are a real pain when your job is buffing. Standard Action spells are fine, but if you have to stack a few to really matter, then half the combat is missed because you were busy prepping for combat. Buffing your party means lots of spells burned and actions used. Buffing yourself requires at least 2 rounds of sitting there chanting instead of actually participating. And, finally, the few spells that are actually really good and always worth casting to buff the party? Not Cleric-exclusive. You could be doing these buffs on a stronger caster.

•Debuffing - Given the Divine spell list, this option is stronger than buffing as a strategy. Clerics have a lot of really nice offensive spells to choose from.
Here's the problems: Your alignment can very easily cut you off from a lot of this offensive goodness. Yes, most people typically "cop out" with a Neutral alignment, but most groups aren't looking for a Negative Energy channeler - they want the Positive Energy for potential healing.
Here's the other problem with being a "Bad Touch" Cleric; most of your good debuffs are SoS/D spells, which means they do nothing when the enemy makes their save. No one likes watching their entire turn wasted because of a fizzled spell, and the game does not support strong ways to increase your save DCs.

•Healing - You *can* do this role, and you can do it pretty well. But as other have said already, "active healing" is a poor tactic, as killing the enemy faster is always the best way to prevent damage done. Healing up after combat with stupid-cheap wands will always be superior to preparing and/or converting spells into Cures.
Also, as others have said already, Life Oracles are much better at emergency heals than Clerics are. Much much better.

•Summoning - This is a pretty solid tactic, but you aren't great at it. It requires going through lots of specific hoops in order to get your Summons down to a Standard Action cast time, and even then, your list of potential summons is butchered by your alignment restrictions. A solid tactic that you are totally capable of doing, but is always done better by another class.

•Necromancy - Finally, the one thing you can do well. Very well! But you must channel negative energy instead of positive (already covered that this isn't what most people who want a Cleric in their group are looking for) and it can be very hard to deal with all that undeath following you around in role-play situations if you're not willing to totally hand-wave away the awkwardness it should (rightfully) bring to every situation.
Also, it can be expensive to boot.
Also, Oracles arguably do it better.
/headdesk


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Avoron wrote:

Magda: Honestly, that seems like a sort of situation where you might be just as well off by responding in character.

Maybe you don't want to risk your party for one person who recklessly ran into battle, but can your character just let this person die, even if it is their own fault?

It is definitely best to let the idiots kill themselves off. You can always pick up a more reliable party member at the nearest tavern. Plus the treasure splits better with less people. In fact, I'd say letting a reckless idiot get killed is the *only* in character option for most adventurers.

Edit @ Neo2151: You're severly underselling the Cleric on a lot of that. The simple fact that they *can* do all of those things is already amazing. Those arcane casters aren't going to be removing your ailments and stat damage (some exceptions apply). And enemies aren't any more likely to make their saves against a Cleric's SoS/SoD spells, then most other classes. There's also plenty of useful necromancy spells that don't have the Evil tag (which may not matter in the first place) and are still very effective.

Sure Shamans are better than Clerics in virtually every instance (save base fortitude saves I guess?), but that's more the result of cleric getting practically no real class features in the transition to Pathfinder.


I should clarify that I don't think Clerics are a *bad* class (the only bad classes, IMO, are Fighters, Monks, and Rogues).
I just think if you're looking to fill any of the roles they can fill, you'll always have a better option available.

Divine Self-Buffer? Paladin, Inquisitor, and Warpriest are all superior to Cleric.
Party Buffer/Healer? Oracles and Shaman are both superior to Cleric here.
Debuffing? It's a risky strategy for anyone, but Arcane tends to do it more reliably.
Summoner? Arcane just simply does it better, whether it's a Conjurer, a Summoner, an Arcanist, etc.
Necromancy? You're pretty good here, but get to deal with all the roleplay issues. Aaaand Oracle does it better.

And if the default argument in their favor is that, "you can do all those things!" Well, you really can't. It's possible, sure, but being unfocused in your goal tends to increase the odds that you won't have prepared the right tool for the job when you need it. (It's why Wizards automatically have Scribe Scroll, after all.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

HEALING:
The don't heal in combat thing is basically a myth based on optimization theory (The theory being that if you do anything other then have your dominated minion save-or-suck things while you count treasure, your doing it wrong). Healing in combat is frequently your best option, and can make the difference between needing 6000gp worth of diamond dust for a raise dead and restoration, or spending that gold on sweet sweet magic items. If you select healing domain, your healing can generally keep up with damage just fine, with a very minimal resource expenditure.* Out of combat healing is handled best by any class capable of using a wand of cure light wounds. Channel energy varies based on group size and combat tactics, but can be great when used at the right time.

SUMMONING:
Summoning is great as a cleric. It uses up some feats, and spells, but your generally really well set up to make the most of your summons. Be aware of the rules related to alignment (chaotic clerics can't summon archons) and some of the other finer rules related to aligned templates and such (bypassing DR/magic is harder then it was in 3.5) Since you have the ability to heal easily, take a look at monsters with high HD, and abilities like Rage. An augmented, smiting, raging, celestial wolverine is a wonderful thing.

DOMAINS:
This is where some of your most amazing abilities come from. Check out the touch of luck ability for the luck domain. It can turn the hated dual wielding kukri fighter into the most ass kicking member of the party. Travel domain is incredible. Healing domain automatically empowers all cure spells. Destruction domain gets an aura that auto confirms crits. etc. Also take careful note of some of the domain spells such as mislead for the luck domain. Just be sure to pick domains that complement each other.

Finally, remember that the CoDzilla days of 3.5 are mostly over. Cleric is still one of the most powerful classes, but you need to pick one or two things to be good at and focus on those at the expense of other options. For example, you can make a great melee cleric, but even with the fire domain, you aren't going to be a great evoker because you will lack the high wis, feats, spell slots, etc.

Figure out what you want to do, then look at options that will allow you to do it well. Reading the optimization advice is good, but it generally only applies to a specific play style that may or may not match your play style. Play the way you want to play.

*Note, things like playing with max hp at every level, or 30 point buy can make healing much less effective.


There's a big difference between "never heal" and "healing isn't usually worth it". A good cleric will certainly heal from time to time in combat. However those times are exceptional and thus don't really deserve speccing around.


Summoning as a cleric can be just as good as summoning as a wizard or arcanist.
Summoner still wins on that front, but if they didn't that would be pretty irritating, you know, given their name and all.

Debuffing as a cleric, in my opinion, is better than debuffing as an arcane caster. Variant Channeling alone is one of the strongest debuffing options in the game, and it only takes two or three feats to become optimal, allowing you to focus on other options with your actual spells at high levels.

Liberty's Edge

Neo2151 wrote:

I should clarify that I don't think Clerics are a *bad* class (the only bad classes, IMO, are Fighters, Monks, and Rogues).

I just think if you're looking to fill any of the roles they can fill, you'll always have a better option available.

Divine Self-Buffer? Paladin, Inquisitor, and Warpriest are all superior to Cleric.
Party Buffer/Healer? Oracles and Shaman are both superior to Cleric here.
Debuffing? It's a risky strategy for anyone, but Arcane tends to do it more reliably.
Summoner? Arcane just simply does it better, whether it's a Conjurer, a Summoner, an Arcanist, etc.
Necromancy? You're pretty good here, but get to deal with all the roleplay issues. Aaaand Oracle does it better.

And if the default argument in their favor is that, "you can do all those things!" Well, you really can't. It's possible, sure, but being unfocused in your goal tends to increase the odds that you won't have prepared the right tool for the job when you need it. (It's why Wizards automatically have Scribe Scroll, after all.)

That said, the cleric can do any of these as necessary. The mild mannered support cleric can buff himself into a combatant, the bad-touch debuffer can repair damage and lift conditions...

Many classes can perform the individual tasks as well or better, but none can take 15 minutes of prayer and fill a totally different role as required.


Healing is usually not considered ideal for combat because it is very difficult to heal enough damage to make up for the damage dealt by the enemy. There are exceptions to this rule such as the higher level spell heal, or using a healing spell on a bleeding ally to prevent further bleed, or simply stabilizing someone about to go down - though there is a cant rip which can do that at a range.

The idea goes like this - if you can buff the party in an optimal manner you can cause a 4 round fight to become a 3 round fight. In doing so, you effectively can "heal" all the damage that would have theoretically been done on round 4 by negating it. Some classes are better at breaking this rule, such as a life oracle who can often both heal and buff as opposed to one or the other.

Ultimately we are discussing theory here though. Just like how an optimized rogue can be of great benefit to a party, exceeding what common theory crafting would imply, and just like how a high level wizard can get shut down very quickly due to his limited pool of spells and limited number of scrolls, a healing cleric can still be quite useful. Probably not the most useful thing in the fame, but plenty useful. Theory does not always translate to reality at the table.


Melkiador wrote:
There's a big difference between "never heal" and "healing isn't usually worth it". A good cleric will certainly heal from time to time in combat. However those times are exceptional and thus don't really deserve speccing around.

I would say that you are already set up for healing if you channel positive energy, and thus turn any cleric spell into a healing spell. Heavy armor proficiency and combat casting would help you operate as a tank in melee in general, or dodge, mobility and travel domain, and you can fly around the battlefield (especially when you get fly spell at level 5). If you take the healing domain, you can basically always outpace the monsters ability to win in a hp attrition battle. With a feat or two (select channel, quick channel) you can keep the whole party and a few summons in the battle and avoid using expensive stuff like potions. Throw in spells like shield other and you get powerful options.

Picking healing as one of your domains is a fairly big investment, but a feat or two and a few spells or channels isn't much of an investment and that will make you an EXCELLENT healer. You would still also be able to play one or two other roles as well.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I would say a domain and feats are a pretty big investment. There are so many other good options of each. And without all of that you can still heal in a real emergency.


Magda Luckbender wrote:
So how many times is it appropriate to rescue said idiot? Each time it happens it puts the entire party at risk. I'm usually soft-hearted about such things, but there's a limit. Particularly when it puts others at risk ...

Again, depends on the character. But certainly have a limit. I say give him ONE last warning. Scream, rant, get really, REALLY angry, and let him know the next time he endangers himself, you aren't doing ANYTHING to help him, and encourage the group to do the same. If you can get everyone behind your decision, let the problem handle itself next time. And if he somehow survives, refuse to heal him of any injuries.


Magda Luckbender wrote:

Hey, I have a question that relates to the OPs original question.

How should a capable in-combat healer respond to stupid actions by allies?

Example: Party faces several big, nasty, grabby oozes with reach.

Cleric shouts, "Hey, those oozes are big and nasty, but also slow. We've locked them down so they can't move. We have lots of room to maneuver. Just stay back, and we'll safely kill them all from a distance with missile weapons. So long as you don't move close to them they can not hurt you! "

One party member ignores this advice and decides to charge the oozes. The first ooze takes it's AoO, rolls a 20, confirms, crits the character, then grabs and envelopes him. Party member is now in danger of death, and never got a chance to attack. Idiotic loose cannon begs for a rescue.

So, what's the best course of action? Is it better to risk the other party members, the non-stupid ones, to save the idiotic loose cannon? Or it better to let the idiot die, and hope the player learns a lesson and creates a non-idiot for their next character? If one rescues the idiot, one teaches him that his actions have no consequences ... Please posit an actual dangerous situation, where a rescue attempt is 50% likely to kill 1-3 more characters. Opinions?

How about you try roleplaying with some people with intelligence? You have my sympathies.

The game is usually more enjoyable when the PCs support each other. However, your group may be an exception.


Put your Charisma to 7 and stick 2 fingers up at the rest of your party expecting you to be channel-bot...!!

Freeing you to focus on far more entertaining cleric roles....

Grand Lodge

You could roll evangelist cleric and grab varient channel. My groups learn fast im no heal bot....ever again. Hell I roleplay a cleric who gets annoyed when he has to cast cure spells. When asked to fix stupid player mistakes I just role play that I dont prepare cure spells. They learn fast to respect ever HP they have.

Silver Crusade

Oh, I never play a cleric as a heal-bot. I am looking for advice on how to best handle this sort of stupidity. It keeps happening in PFS play at random tables, so it's not always the same player. It seems there's a certain subset of players who will always rush an enemy if they can, no matter how stupid it is to do so. The last time it happened my character performed a very risky heroic rescue, but that was bad because the idiot learned nothing from it: I should have left him to die.

I've never had this problem in PFS play beyond level 5+. Only at low levels, where it keeps happening.

PFS rules against PvP don't allow one to trip the idiot as he goes past, even to save him from himself. Several times I've wanted to do just that. Perhaps suggest some clever way to cause the 'stupid charge loose cannon' PC to certainly die right after the first stupid rush, so we're not tempted to rescue him? Other ideas?

How do you teach someone that their best tactical option is sometimes, "Sit on your hands and do nothing until the time is right."


Cuuniyevo wrote:
Once you get Selective Channeling, healing becomes much better, btw, so if you want to go that route, make sure to grab it as soon as you can. Healing the enemy on accident is sure to get you dirty looks from your party.

One player discovered this at my table during an encounter with some giant spiders. That was one mighty frustrated paladin.


Magda Luckbender wrote:


How do you teach someone that their best tactical option is sometimes, "Sit on your hands and do nothing until the time is right."

I don't have the answers for the larger issue that your question addresses. I did however have a versatile channeling cleric based off rulership portfolio and just elected to daze the person. he was not happy but he finally learned after a short conversation. Simply put all he had to do was to wait till one of the full casters did their job and he eventually saw this.

Silver Crusade

That's great! Had my cleric had such a daze option that's exactly what I would have done, several times!

Grand Lodge

Magda-
I had an experience with a teenager who would wonder off to new areas while the team was fighting. He was trying to initiate 2nd combat and wipe us all. His excuse was, "My character is very impatient."
The group then told him both out of character and in character that this sort of behavior is not liked at PFS tables. He shrugged us off and kept doing it. I gave him 1 more warning that this kind of trolling typically get characters killed and if there was not strict PvP clause his character would have been killed off by mine already since he clearly is trying to kill the whole group. Afterwards he took the lead and began running ahead of the group right into a BBEG who knocked him out in the first round. We left him unconscious but stable the rest of the session everyone refused to help him and was quiet sad when the DM decided to not kill him. But he did sit out for a good hour with an unconscious character.

Perhaps let them remain unconscious for the rest of the session. Will easily teach them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A cleric is also far more then a buff/debuff/healing bot. They are the direct representatives of their deity, and channel the deity's will according to its dogma and the cleric's own judgement. They can be expert diplomats and fonts of knowledge, heavily armored smiters of evil or good (heavy armor prof is not a bad feat to invest in, especially if you have a low dex,) relieve a comrade's fear or pain or misery through the application of healing magic, and cause their enemies to implode from the inside out. You can raise people from the dead!

The true key in playing a cleric is to consider them OUTSIDE of combat. Everybody seems to focus on the mechanics without considering the roleplaying side of being the will of god. As for players that do stupid things, it's not PvP if you refuse to heal someone. Selective channeling works nicely at not benefiting other players. Perhaps you are a cleric of Abadar, who charges payment for his healing services by gaining a larger share of the treasure in return for his blessings. Or you are a servant of Calistra, and sponsor young mena and women to go into sacred prostitution as a means of bettering their lives. Maybe that player who wanders off finds themselves spending gold at your newly founded brothel. Or as a servant of Erastil, you channel your energy into making people be able to defend themselves by teaching the ways of nature an the hunt.

Another way of lessening the healing duties is by using spells like imbue with spell ability to drop on demand healing for people. Or convince them to take ranks in Use Magic Device and use cure light wounds wands, or potions themselves. Low cost one shot and charged items, especially if you make them, help the cleric out by not having to overload on support magics. Many of the domains also add in nice offensive magics that make you the equivalent of any arcane caster. Storm or Fire just being two that come to mind. How about a cleric of Gozreh with Fire and Water, or Fire and Ice? Healing domain also allows you to eliminate undead wholesale. Oh wait I forgot to take mass heal to eliminate those nasty vampire assassin/ninja/warpriests of Urgathoa. But wait, I have it as a domain spell. Poof! No more nasty vampire assassin/ninja/warpriests.

Last but definitely not least, clerics (and oracles) have the one of the best spells in the game. Blade Barrier. Combine it with spiritual weapon and spiritual ally, and you have awesome force choppiness the mage wishes they could do. Let them putter about with fireballs and lightning bolts, and have yourself get caught in the area of effect. You can heal the damage and the party, and then you have the experience to use spell immunity and can run right up to a foe and tell the wizard to fireball you! Shout BLOOD FOR GORUM! and swing your greatsword high as the wizard's flames burn the vile heretics to ash!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I have a contrast story about being a heal-bot.

I went to a local gaming club and my regular game was cancelled and there was nothing else I could get involved in so joined in the PFS game. Then I thought of Pathfinder as D and D, killing things and wasn't too enthusiastic- my view of pathfinder has improved.

I hadn't played D and D for... decades, or not regularly. So I joined the lvl 1-3 group and made a cleric as they lacked one.

Here is me with an underpowered character and with a limited [at best]knowledge of the game. It turns out I made a large contribution to the success of the session by healing and healing and healing. Because it was a large group and I had selective channel healing in combat proved very useful, which isn't what people on this thread have found but was the case then. I enjoyed it much more than I expected.

I have normally been happy to heal PCs. It makes you popular and promotes co-operation.


Well I can talk from experience when I say clerics are one of the most complete classes, I play a dwarf cleric and a human oracle as well.

My intake on the whole healing in-combat being a waste compared to crowd control and summoning, is that a player should always analyze every situation in a case bu case, sure there are effective options ffor preventing damage, but sometimes a well placed heal can simply allow your damage dealer or your wizard to take his/her next turn.

I don't agree with the whole healing in combat sucks, simply because many new players that read this forum take it by heart and only abide by that rule, instead of keeping their options open and choosing to act wisely according to the situation

As an example, the cleric in a group I DM at is always being critized for his lack of healing, even outside of combat, he says he is not a healbot, yet one of the two paladins in our game has saved the party quite a couple of times with a good placed channel positive energy. I don't remember the last time the cleric cast a cure spells and we're already at lvl 10. For me that's just wrong.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / advice on clerics All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.