So in the the current campaign im running( a home brew) one of the paladins has become quite enthralled by a feamle antipaladin npc. I'm looking for clever ways to twist and bend those feelings into something to help drive him crazy. As it bstands right now the kinda have a secert relationship ie: they only meet in private or in guise.
The real kicker is thatshe works for the bbeg in the game. I have consider having the bbeg comand her to kill said paladin leanding to a one on one battle, but I feel there is so much possible with these two. So any ideas would be apprecatied.
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Depends on how nasty you want to be.
If you want to be super nasty, have her manipulate him into promising to be her protector and pander to the "knight in shining armor" complex.
Then, later in the game, have her show up at the side of her boss fighting against the party....
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Hé knows of her allegence to bbeg and that hasnt deter him yet
Have he ask for his help with getting out of the deal she have the BBEG. And see if she Can trick him to push the borders of good behavior for the "greater good".
And remember the paladin May suffer but the player should have fun;)
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If he knows of her allegiance to an evil enemy and doesn't stop associating with her, then he isn't a paladin anymore. He's willingly associating with evil. Has he bothered to use detect evil on her at all? If he suggest the paladin does because he doesn't want to know it hints at the fact that he realizes that she might be evil. And is further reason to lose his power.
Quote: Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good. However, before proceeding you should discuss out of play with the player about what will happen if he continues to associate with evil.
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Claxon wrote: If he knows of her allegiance to an evil enemy and doesn't stop associating with her, then he isn't a paladin anymore. He's willingly associating with evil. Has he bothered to use detect evil on her at all? If he suggest the paladin does because he doesn't want to know it hints at the fact that he realizes that she might be evil. And is further reason to lose his power.
Quote: Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good. However, before proceeding you should discuss out of play with the player about what will happen if he continues to associate with evil.
Lol she is an antipaladin of Asmodeous no detection needed. I'm not looking to make him fall cause that would spoil the fun for both of us.
I have kicked the idea of the head to head fight at her lords demand, but seemed very expected. I was hoping for an out of the box Idea for their little tell. I have also considered her telling her lord that she wont fight the paladin then he slays her, so that he has even more reason to hate bbeg and the guilt of her life on his hands.
Does she know HIS affiliation?
First, in the paladin description a paladin cannot associate with evil characters except when trying to defeat a greater evil. Iomedae (or the like) don't care how hot, heavy, acrobatic, or adventurous that association is. It ain't supposed to happen, period.
But let's talk classic tropes. Good boy/evil girl plots go one of threeways; boy gets corrupted by the evil dirty whore, girl is "cleansed" and converted by the magic of his 'holy rod', or they fight to the death with lots of angst. Please save discussions on the obvious sexism of these traditional tropes for the end of the thread when the mods lock it, we have plot to discuss.
She's evil, pure and simple. She has an aura of evil following her and gave herself over to the forces of hell in a very literal and magically-binding sense. The only excuses the naked paladin has is that he's trying to convert her or pumping her, repeatedly and vigorously, for information about BBEG, and/or trying to convert her.
But you don't intend a fall, and you clearly don't have a particular path of death/redemption/corruption plotted out, so here's a plot that keeps things going while leaving forks in the roads:
Drop more baddies in the way. She and he stop just having midnight trysts and guilty banging and actually go questing together against bigger, badder enemies. This can require anything from minor to major plot revisions and/or murdering and replacing the BBEG (probably with her, lolbetrayal) to keep it going, but on the path she can be a source of information, fellow hack'n'slasher, or cut-scene assistant ("I'll hold off these gibbering hordes of undead! You take care of the lich who is making them!") on all kinds of side-quests that involve scenery-chewing bad guys who she or BBEG want dead. On the run she'll be constantly coming up with "quicker, easier ways" of solving problems, trying to steal and keep evil magic stuff he wants to destroy, embarrassing him by loudly making jokes about their "horizontal team-ups"/inviting other hot party members to "group activities," and negotiating with evil things he just wants to kill.
Meanwhile, he can choose if he watches her get away with murdering unhelpful peasants and the like, embarrasses her in front of other people by being a buzzkill, or some combination of the two.
Edit: Baddies. Here's a list of critters that can cause problems that a paladin and an anti-paladin would both hate.
Corpse-lord: Undead guy is trying to create legions of walking dead and blot out all life because reasons which includes all living slaves. Evil gal (or boss) want slaves to keep producing new slaves because even if you USE undead, you need a renewable source of bodies long-term.
Macguffin: Evil guy (any kind) has evil artifact, antipaladin claims he is planning to destroy world with it, he may be just keeping it around and antipaladin is lying. Paladin wants to destroy it, antipaladin wants to steal it.
Dangerous Alliance: Evil guy is going to betray BBEG, antipaladin sees it coming. She can't take the army out to stop evil guy but she can take a band of adventurers. This weakens BBEG a bit, but keeps him from being betrayed and murdered.
Dangerous betrayal: As above, but antipaladin is planning on setting the two evils against each other. Paladin is okay with it because evil v. evil is good, she's okay with it because she's got a plan to take over/gets off on war/wants revenge on one or both of the evils/is just a real b@%&%.
Evil Onions: Antipaladin is attacking evil minions of BBEG to appear like she is betraying him for paladin-redemption thing, is secretly planning to corrupt paladin and turn him to BBEG's side, is secretly-secretly planning to strike BBEG down and rule the galaxy as husband and wife, is secretly-secretly-secretly hedging her bets to see if good is stronger than evil and if she should switch sides, is secretly-secretly-secretly-secretlyohmygodit'sgotmei'mbeingsuckedintotheeve nthorizonaaaaaaagh-*
Eff Tee Ellz: Goblins squeal just as good as humans, and she loves the squishy noises they make when she put 'em on pikes. Killin' good, killin' evil, it's all for the lulz.
She has played thé part of major source of info. As thé bbeg just looks at thé party as a minor annonce right more them thé real threat to his power they will one day become. She is lawful evil to à tee so she shouldbt be hacking innocent people, but an disagreement on what to do with à child pickpocket could be fun. The beat part is there hasnt been à physical side to their little love story, à couple (dates or interactions) but she always leaves him hanging. She does understand hé is à paladin of Srenea, and like to point out that their vids have even worked together before.Thanks for thé opinions and advice keep them coming .
Do I smell auto-correct?
Anyway, lawful evil will still happily torture the hell out of a peasant who isn't forthcoming enough with information or kill someone after they answered questions to "maintain operational security" and prevent them from squealing.
Also, why would you tell me that? NOW I can't keep repeatedly thrusting my terrible innuendo into such a warm, inviting thread.
Other fun:
-The characters debate ethics.
Plague-zombies are headed for a village to kill and convert the peasants. Antipaladin suggests the party simply forcibly evacuate all but the local criminals and send them (now homeless refugees who will likely be enslaved) away. Then she intends to use the local criminals as bait for firetraps which will kill the mindless creatures. The criminals will have to be cut-up a lot so the zombies can smell the blood and will undoubtedly die in the fire, agonizingly.
Illegal slave-takers are raiding the area. She intends to kill the slavers (yay!), free the citizens who have been illegally taken (yay!), and enslave any surviving non-citizens herself (boo!).
A rebel force is planning a murder-sacrifice ritual to conjure up a powerful demon. Antipaladin doesn't have any evil plans here, except torturing one of the cultists for information. She uses it as an opportunity to talk about all the good that evil does (wait, wut?) while the paladin has the opportunity to point out the similarity between kidnapping innocents for sacrifice and a system which does the exact same thing for devils, except in a more orderly and regimented fashion.
Kill a village of orc raiders. Lots of orc widows and orphans left over. What do? Antipaladin suggests a simple solution (murder, or "giving them a good ownerhome that would teach them to be productive members of society").
Anyway, all I know for certain is eventually the paladin falls. Divine grace only lets you make so many reflex saves before a pit trap works.
How about the Anti-pally brings him gifts, that are either scrying devices or other somehow subtley bad for the party to have, just knick-knacks or items stolen from the BBEG. And of course, if they get a certain distance from the paladin have them go boom!
So paladin can decide to trust his GF, and accept the gifts, then the devices can work compromising the party and that sort of thing. If Pally notices they are bad things to keep around and decides to get rid of them, a few days later that village is filled by a poisonous gas. Ta-da! Now the party can investigate the cause of this. And depending on how astute the paladin is, this could happen two or three times before it all becomes clear what is at play. Of course, is the gf involved in the plot? Maybe she is, or maybe she's being played by the BBEG, maybe she offers further assistance but is her help REALLY helpful, or is it part of the broader plan? Basically by this point, you have a whole sub-plot you can shape however you'd like :)
DMJB83 wrote: She has played thé part of major source of info. As thé bbeg just looks at thé party as a minor annonce right more them thé real threat to his power they will one day become. She is lawful evil to à tee so she shouldbt be hacking innocent people, but an disagreement on what to do with à child pickpocket could be fun. The beat part is there hasnt been à physical side to their little love story, à couple (dates or interactions) but she always leaves him hanging. She does understand hé is à paladin of Srenea, and like to point out that their vids have even worked together before.Thanks for thé opinions and advice keep them coming . You can hand-wave it if you like, but Antipaladins are chaotic evil.
She can feed him information about (other) evils, and so use him to get rid of obstacles to her boss's plans, or to her plans.
I agree that there is very high chance of falling in here. At some point he needs to be warned, and at some point make a choice. There will be consequences.
Have her tell him she's pregnant. He'll want to protect her no matter what whether it's true or not.
Torchlyte wrote: DMJB83 wrote: She has played thé part of major source of info. As thé bbeg just looks at thé party as a minor annonce right more them thé real threat to his power they will one day become. She is lawful evil to à tee so she shouldbt be hacking innocent people, but an disagreement on what to do with à child pickpocket could be fun. The beat part is there hasnt been à physical side to their little love story, à couple (dates or interactions) but she always leaves him hanging. She does understand hé is à paladin of Srenea, and like to point out that their vids have even worked together before.Thanks for thé opinions and advice keep them coming . You can hand-wave it if you like, but Antipaladins are chaotic evil. OP can house-rule it. Hand-wave implies the decision was made irrationally or without much thought, and there is nothing to suggest that's true in this case.
Weirdo wrote: Hand-wave implies the decision was made irrationally or without much thought, and there is nothing to suggest that's true in this case. In my mind at least, hand-waving only implies that you're ignoring something because it's inconvenient.
In any context I have run across it is a negative term, so it would be easy to misunderstand your meaning.
Brother Fen wrote: Have her tell him she's pregnant. He'll want to protect her no matter what whether it's true or not. 1. Have her actually get pregnant.
2. Secretly (from the Paladin anyway) perform dark rites on the child in the womb to become a Fext.
3. Have her leave the child with the paladin and disappear.
4. Watch as the paladin loves and cherishes the child.
5. Wait X years until the child becomes an immortal undead horror...
6. ???
7. Profit!
Or replace the Fext part with the the child being a vessel for a powerful devil soul. The look on your players face in like 30 sessions or so when the child has grown will be priceless.
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Here's the question: Does she love him? If it's genuine love, both eros and agape, then it's far stronger than her allegiance to any evil (which is an inferior force), ultimately.
Perhaps she might sacrifice herself at the last minute, a la Darth Vader for Luke, knowing that she'll likely go to eternal punishment anyway—which would constitute a real sacrifice. Might redeem her, might not, depending on how you want to go with it.
Alternately (if you're feeling particularly insidious), she might do so, knowing she'll be resurrected ... and then she'll have him completely hooked, because he then might well be inclined to do evil for her even as she did good for him—only to find she's been playing him all along. Mua ha ha.
Frankly, though, while you're free to run your game however you like, carrying on a romantic/sexual relationship with an anti-paladin is self-evidently beyond ridiculous for a paladin. It de facto condones what she is. He should have gotten warning twinges when growing to like her ... warning bells when he first kissed her ... and his powers should have drained away with the essence he left inside her that first time.
"Women ... weaken ... legs!"
[Edit: "The beat part is there hasnt been à physical side to their little love story ... "
Didn't see this before. Very good, then. Carry on. :) ]
My group encountered something similar years ago: Merelyth was an occasional foe of my paladin Rashid; she debuted, I believe, as a 5th level anti-paladin when he was still at 1st level, which allowed her to be his superior for quite some time. (I believe he caught up at ... hmm ... 8th level, if I'm not mistaken, and was 10th when she was 9th.) Their flirtation became fascination ... but, ultimately, other parts of the campaign drew us away from that storyline.
A good idea would have her play the maiden in distress card- there is someone after her and only the paladin and his friends can rescue her. Maybe she "accidentally" gets kidnapped by a barbarian tribe. The thing is, the barbarians are decent people who are at odds with her master, and she is setting them up to be executed by the PCs, who believe they are just saving a poor defenseless person.
This is one example, but there are thousands of ways she could manipulate the party in to doing her boss's dirty work, and in the process allow her boss to stay more in the shadows.
boring7 wrote: Do I smell auto-correct?
Anyway, lawful evil will still happily torture the hell out of a peasant who isn't forthcoming enough with information or kill someone after they answered questions to "maintain operational security" and prevent them from squealing.
Also, why would you tell me that? NOW I can't keep repeatedly thrusting my terrible innuendo into such a warm, inviting thread.
Other fun:
-The characters debate ethics.
Plague-zombies are headed for a village to kill and convert the peasants. Antipaladin suggests the party simply forcibly evacuate all but the local criminals and send them (now homeless refugees who will likely be enslaved) away. Then she intends to use the local criminals as bait for firetraps which will kill the mindless creatures. The criminals will have to be cut-up a lot so the zombies can smell the blood and will undoubtedly die in the fire, agonizingly.
Illegal slave-takers are raiding the area. She intends to kill the slavers (yay!), free the citizens who have been illegally taken (yay!), and enslave any surviving non-citizens herself (boo!).
A rebel force is planning a murder-sacrifice ritual to conjure up a powerful demon. Antipaladin doesn't have any evil plans here, except torturing one of the cultists for information. She uses it as an opportunity to talk about all the good that evil does (wait, wut?) while the paladin has the opportunity to point out the similarity between kidnapping innocents for sacrifice and a system which does the exact same thing for devils, except in a more orderly and regimented fashion.
Kill a village of orc raiders. Lots of orc widows and orphans left over. What do? Antipaladin suggests a simple solution (murder, or "giving them a good ownerhome that would teach them to be productive members of society").
Anyway, all I know for certain is eventually the paladin falls. Divine grace only lets you make so many...
Yeah auto correct hell. I was typing form a cell phone lol. Thats some intresting ideas
Torchlyte wrote: DMJB83 wrote: She has played thé part of major source of info. As thé bbeg just looks at thé party as a minor annonce right more them thé real threat to his power they will one day become. She is lawful evil to à tee so she shouldbt be hacking innocent people, but an disagreement on what to do with à child pickpocket could be fun. The beat part is there hasnt been à physical side to their little love story, à couple (dates or interactions) but she always leaves him hanging. She does understand hé is à paladin of Srenea, and like to point out that their vids have even worked together before.Thanks for thé opinions and advice keep them coming . You can hand-wave it if you like, but Antipaladins are chaotic evil. Yeah sorry at our table a long time back we house ruled all antipaladins le instead of ce evil, too us seem to fit the class better. Ce is for psycho murderers not a dark knight with codes and ethics.
Brother Fen wrote: Have her tell him she's pregnant. He'll want to protect her no matter what whether it's true or not. Wow I have inttenionally left the phsyical side to a min, but that makes me reconsider.
I won't help you torment your paladin. Honestly, I think it's a cheap shot to single out paladins for mistreatment.
Unless, of course, you have out-of-game player buy-in that she's cool with being led down the path of evil.
Jaelithe wrote: Here's the question: Does she love him? If it's genuine love, both eros and agape, then it's far stronger than her allegiance to any evil (which is an inferior force), ultimately.
Perhaps she might sacrifice herself at the last minute, a la Darth Vader for Luke, knowing that she'll likely go to eternal punishment anyway—which would constitute a real sacrifice. Might redeem her, might not, depending on how you want to go with it.
Alternately (if you're feeling particularly insidious), she might do so, knowing she'll be resurrected ... and then she'll have him completely hooked, because he then might well be inclined to do evil for her even as she did good for him—only to find she's been playing him all along. Mua ha ha.
Frankly, though, while you're free to run your game however you like, carrying on a romantic/sexual relationship with an anti-paladin is self-evidently beyond ridiculous for a paladin. It de facto condones what she is. He should have gotten warning twinges when growing to like her ... warning bells when he first kissed her ... and his powers should have drained away with the essence he left inside her that first time.
"Women ... weaken ... legs!"
[Edit: "The beat part is there hasnt been à physical side to their little love story ... "
Didn't see this before. Very good, then. Carry on. :) ]
My group encountered something similar years ago: Merelyth was an occasional foe of my paladin Rashid; she debuted, I believe, as a 5th level anti-paladin when he was still at 1st level, which allowed her to be his superior for quite some time. (I believe he caught up at ... hmm ... 8th level, if I'm not mistaken, and was 10th when she was 9th.) Their flirtation became fascination ... but, ultimately, other parts of the campaign drew us away from that storyline.
She is very stricken by him as well, so yes it is being played as an affection that is both ways. It was werid what started as her show up to mock him after a minor scuffle with some of her lords underlings, and to kinda give the careful whom you mess with speech. Then their back and forth banter kinda took a flirty turn, and has got to the point where they and a Hush Hush date to a play in town.
One way to play would be to do like the Paladins series by David Dalglish. Two friends who are each a paladin of opposing dieties, When the paladin of Karak is told his god wants him to kill his friend he can't do it. He eventually becomes a paladin for Ashur after fighting his friend and when asks cor death is instead given mercy and forgivness. He doesn't go all goody happy instantly when a man attempts to lawfully arrest him he cuts off his arm and in the fight caused by that cuts a farmer in half.
Ashur=Sarenae
Karak=Asmodeous
I know its the "easy" way but Sarenae is all about redemption and forgivness anyway.
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Claxon wrote: If he knows of her allegiance to an evil enemy and doesn't stop associating with her, then he isn't a paladin anymore. He's willingly associating with evil. Has he bothered to use detect evil on her at all? If he suggest the paladin does because he doesn't want to know it hints at the fact that he realizes that she might be evil. And is further reason to lose his power.
Quote: Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good. However, before proceeding you should discuss out of play with the player about what will happen if he continues to associate with evil.
That's okay. The associates bit doesn't actually cause a Paladin to fall.
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Ashiel wrote: Claxon wrote: If he knows of her allegiance to an evil enemy and doesn't stop associating with her, then he isn't a paladin anymore. He's willingly associating with evil. Has he bothered to use detect evil on her at all? If he suggest the paladin does because he doesn't want to know it hints at the fact that he realizes that she might be evil. And is further reason to lose his power.
Quote: Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good. However, before proceeding you should discuss out of play with the player about what will happen if he continues to associate with evil.
That's okay. The associates bit doesn't actually cause a Paladin to fall. Until the associate bull rushes him into a pit.
Yes, it's still funny.
I'm all for tormenting paladins. it appears that neither of them really follow their code, if their actively flirting with the other side, and contemplating bumping uglies. SO, i suggest that they both fall (rise in her case?). He is associating with someone whose wholly evil, a woman with a soul blacker than the nightmares of azathoth... and she's doing the same. if they both lose their powers, as their deities get pissed at them, they'll just be fighters without bonus feats. then, they might adventure together for a bit, but the anti-pally will have to choose between her lust for power, and her love for the pally, and the pally will have to choose his companions, or his lover. the key is forcing him to choose.
also, i'm well aware that that last post had no text in it... tiny buttons and a possessed phone. nuff said.
I’d love to play or DM a Paladin in this scenario.
You do need to make clear what will make the Paladin fall. For example, I wouldn’t rule that any of the actions so far would warrant a fall in one of my games. As long as he is pursuing a conversion or redemption of the antipaladin, this plotline can be a lot of fun.
I also don’t agree with screwing over the paladin either. For my tastes, I’d pursue scenarios where the paladin has to thwart her plans, and may even have to fight her, but he’s fighting non-lethal, and she’s outright trying to kill him.
IF he is able to turn her to the path of righteousness, the conflicts do not end either. Her former allies may not take such an act kindly, or may want to stop her from revealing more secrets. They may send high level assassins to wipe out such an embarrassment.
The BBEG may also have loved ones or items that are important to the anti-paladin to ensure her loyalty. If she were to betray him, a loved one may be targeted for death as well. So before she can leave her current organization, the paladin would need to secure the safety of such loved ones.
Gray wrote: I’d love to play or DM a Paladin in this scenario.
You do need to make clear what will make the Paladin fall. For example, I wouldn’t rule that any of the actions so far would warrant a fall in one of my games. As long as he is pursuing a conversion or redemption of the antipaladin, this plotline can be a lot of fun.
I also don’t agree with screwing over the paladin either. For my tastes, I’d pursue scenarios where the paladin has to thwart her plans, and may even have to fight her, but he’s fighting non-lethal, and she’s outright trying to kill him.
IF he is able to turn her to the path of righteousness, the conflicts do not end either. Her former allies may not take such an act kindly, or may want to stop her from revealing more secrets. They may send high level assassins to wipe out such an embarrassment.
The BBEG may also have loved ones or items that are important to the anti-paladin to ensure her loyalty. If she were to betray him, a loved one may be targeted for death as well. So before she can leave her current organization, the paladin would need to secure the safety of such loved ones.
so, the party has to exfiltrate the family of the anti-pally, and secure their safety, against someone with the resources to perform greater divination spells and the ability to teleport a platoon of bearded devils anywhere on the planet. that would prompt the party to come up with a clever way to hide the family, and then force them to defend the family when the BBEG proves smarter than them and sends the affore mentioned platoon of devils to kill them. that sounds like fun.
Paladin fall is after all a class feature. *cough*
boring7 wrote:
Until the associate bull rushes him into a pit.
Yes, it's still funny.
With a paladin's CMD? Doubtful. ;D
Gray wrote:
You do need to make clear what will make the Paladin fall.
I disagree. In improv, especially when joint storytelling, the most important part is agreeing on what causes the unfortunate things to happen to a participant. It isn't necessary to lay out, beforehand, what causes the paladin's fall. Doing so takes away the sense of danger from performing risky actions: "Is this finally too far?????" Much of the player's mental energy is then focused on either avoid that line, or creatively bending it so as never to fall. What is more fun is if the DM and player have a conversation after each game where Something Questionable happens. When they both agree if/that the character finally crossed the line- that's when it happens. Player's happy because they get a say in a major story development for their character. DM's happy because the player's happy and hopefully they made a tale they can repeat again and again.
I wish I could give OP scenarios, but I need more than 'he's a Pally and she's an anti-Pally'. What drives him and her? The more fleshed out their motivations, the more fodder there will be to make a great story. The crux is that you want him to make very difficult decisions: decisions where he loses no matter what he chooses. Others have touched on this, but they will be generic scenarios unless we know more.
Gratz on creating a game for your player that has undoubtedly already increased the depth of fun they are having while playing!
If the antipaladin is stricken with him, isn't she in just as much danger of falling herself?
Blakmane wrote: If the antipaladin is stricken with him, isn't she in just as much danger of falling herself? "This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark ends. An antipaladin’s code requires that he place his own interests and desires above all else, as well as impose tyranny, take advantage whenever possible, and punish the good and just, provided such actions don’t interfere with his goals"
So if the Antipaladin wants the paladin, that would fall under "own interests and desires above all else", considering that the antipaladin is placing the paladin above literally all else (powers included by risking frequent contact just to get snuggly).
Otherwise she could just be lying to help her master.
Or, you can argue it like my brother whenever his Antipaladin is threatened with losing his powers "F--- the code, I'm chaotic! I don't follow rules!". From there, we'll either move on or waste an hour trying to argue out the paradox of a chaotic character having a code of rules to follow (but that's just us).
havoc xiii wrote: Any updates on this? To buy sometime to sort out the next move of BBEG and the Anti-pally pally sitiution, I had the anventure lead the team to a diffrent pocket reality. Plan is kinda while they are secure an artifact BBEG is also after in that reality 5 years or so will pass in theirs. Therefore BBEG has a stronger foothold on the world and antipally has the whole women scorn and left behind thing going. At least thats where I'm leaning.
I too am curious, for fairness' sake, if the OP is tracking the chance the PALADIN ends up the one "corrupting" the antipaladin and causing her to fall from "grace."
The Shaman wrote: I too am curious, for fairness' sake, if the OP is tracking the chance the PALADIN ends up the one "corrupting" the antipaladin and causing her to fall from "grace." Yes I have considered the possibilty of him turning her, but feel if that happens it has to be in a dramtic way ie: not just show up and have turned a leaf and is now a good guy. Considered her turning against her master in a hope of saving the paladin( if iI can arrange such confrontation)only to have her killed and maybe redemded and resureacted by his goddess. Thats why I started this post so many ways to take this story that I cant decide.
Well, Rome wasn´t built in a day. I reckon it may be a long plan, just like her conversion of him (or does she simply not care about "converting" as long as she´s having fun)?
The Shaman wrote: Well, Rome wasn´t built in a day. I reckon it may be a long plan, just like her conversion of him (or does she simply not care about "converting" as long as she´s having fun)? At this point neither has activly tried converting the other. Both have just seemed to enjoy having the other around. Theres some things they agree upon and some they dont, but conversion or combat have neither started yet. He has infromed the party if combat does ensue with her it will be him and her one on one they arent to get involved.
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