Goblinworks Executive Founder
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No taunt mechanic planned or expected for the reasons listed in the Ryan quote Nihimon posted. Fighters get a bunch of ways to crowd control on Opportunity, but the creature AI is largely ignoring crowd control right now. Ultimately, we're looking more at ways for a Fighter to be able to actually interdict opponents from getting past than faking it with taunts.
Maybe using knockbacks like the Ogres seemed to be doing on me? :)
Goblin Squad Member
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For now, F1 targets you for your heals (and if you're in a party, the other F keys target party members). We'll probably have smarter targeting for beneficial spells eventually (there's design for having to do some kind of override to attack friendlies and being unable to buff/heal hostiles, which should help if all PvE enemies are treated as hostiles).
It is not expected that heals (if they are positive energy based) may damage undead?
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Goblin Squad Member
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No taunt mechanic planned or expected for the reasons listed in the Ryan quote Nihimon posted. Fighters get a bunch of ways to crowd control on Opportunity, but the creature AI is largely ignoring crowd control right now. Ultimately, we're looking more at ways for a Fighter to be able to actually interdict opponents from getting past than faking it with taunts.Maybe using knockbacks like the Ogres seemed to be doing on me? :)
At work so I don't have my books with me but what's that feat that prevents a person from passing them? Do Not Pass? Shield Wall? Zone of Control? I believe it is in the APG.
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Goblin Squad Member
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At work so I don't have my books with me but what's that feat that prevents a person from passing them? Do Not Pass? Shield Wall? Zone of Control? I believe it is in the APG.No taunt mechanic planned or expected for the reasons listed in the Ryan quote Nihimon posted. Fighters get a bunch of ways to crowd control on Opportunity, but the creature AI is largely ignoring crowd control right now. Ultimately, we're looking more at ways for a Fighter to be able to actually interdict opponents from getting past than faking it with taunts.Maybe using knockbacks like the Ogres seemed to be doing on me? :)
Well you can grapple if you're talking table top.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just pointing out that the feat Goad exist in Pathfinder Online.
just add Intimidate mechanics, Charisma mechanics into Hate.
Maybe something similar to the dazzling display feat chain.
Edit I was mistaken: The feat name is Antagonize:
Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and has a DC equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. Before you make these checks, you may make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on these Diplomacy or Intimidate checks equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn. The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.
Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?
Well the fights aren't scripted events like a theme park, so how you handle an encounter should be up to you. I would imagine some AI could respond differently to certain tactics. Not sure how involved they will get with it, but that would be my guess. That makes 'threat' generation or 'hate' much harder to predict based on the monster you're fighting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?Well the fights aren't scripted events like a theme park, so how you handle an encounter should be up to you. I would imagine some AI could respond differently to certain tactics. Not sure how involved they will get with it, but that would be my guess. That makes 'threat' generation or 'hate' much harder to predict based on the monster you're fighting.
The fights I've seen on streams are basically exactly like theme park fights. There is no difference whatsoever.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The fights I've seen on streams are basically exactly like theme park fights. There is no difference whatsoever.I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?Well the fights aren't scripted events like a theme park, so how you handle an encounter should be up to you. I would imagine some AI could respond differently to certain tactics. Not sure how involved they will get with it, but that would be my guess. That makes 'threat' generation or 'hate' much harder to predict based on the monster you're fighting.
You're judging what the game will be like on an alpha build that just started?
edit-
Let me delve into this a little deeper. Trinity in theme park is expected that every encounter can be completed by every group that encounters it. Boss fights fall inline with that. Trinity is how design balances it all out. They do this because there are expected results and everybody wins. Well the expectation is that everybody wins. In a sandbox environment that's not necessarily true. You won't always be expected to complete every challenge in a formulaic way. It very well could be very fluid. He mentioned CC being a big component of the fighter and said that it wasn't working really yet. That I imagine should show a little more control in future gameplay as far as handling encounters go.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You're judging what the game will be like on a pre-alpha build?The fights I've seen on streams are basically exactly like theme park fights. There is no difference whatsoever.I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?Well the fights aren't scripted events like a theme park, so how you handle an encounter should be up to you. I would imagine some AI could respond differently to certain tactics. Not sure how involved they will get with it, but that would be my guess. That makes 'threat' generation or 'hate' much harder to predict based on the monster you're fighting.
What differences in basic combat can you be envisioning that would make them very different from theme park combat? It's the same stuff. Even just conceptually, what could be all that different from Everquest, SWTOR, LOTRO, WoW, any of them? You aggro some mobs and use various abilities to kill them. They usually run towards you and try to hit you. You either stand toe to toe with them, or kite them, or CC them, or root them, or AE them, or whatever.
What's going to be different?|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There may, indeed, be a bunch of weapons that you can get that don't have models yet and may be invisible. (I suspect that the presents I snuck around and gave out didn't have models and I felt bad about that on realizing :) ).
In regards to missing weapons not sure if this might help or not. 292 Fantasy Weapons (Unity Asset Pack)
At work so I don't have my books with me but what's that feat that prevents a person from passing them? Do Not Pass? Shield Wall? Zone of Control? I believe it is in the APG.No taunt mechanic planned or expected for the reasons listed in the Ryan quote Nihimon posted. Fighters get a bunch of ways to crowd control on Opportunity, but the creature AI is largely ignoring crowd control right now. Ultimately, we're looking more at ways for a Fighter to be able to actually interdict opponents from getting past than faking it with taunts.Maybe using knockbacks like the Ogres seemed to be doing on me? :)
Stand Still. It's related to Combat Reflexes. I was also thinking we should try to include it. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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There really isn't a problem with the "Trinity"
the roles exist because they are viable roles across nearly every spectrum of gaming. You don't call your guy who lays down suppression fire the Tank, but his benefit to the group is the same.
The only problems I have ever seen with the "Trinity" is when games take it too far and make it impossible to perform a function without the "Trinity".
The Trinity is popular because it works.
Just make it to where we can have groups full of Wizards and have a viable playstyle.
My favorite Set-up in PF TT is the following:
High AC/Martial character
High DMG/ Ranged or martial character(Get your Flank on)
Healer
Crowd Control.
In Tabletop the most powerful classes are the ones that can shape the battlefield and directly effect it without giving the enemies a save.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Stephen implied that Melee should get attacks/abilities that could keep the mobs from reaching other players in the group, i.e. some sort of collision-blocking? Not sure if this will be simply some kind of a stun rather then actually standing in the way. Maybe melee gets something like "Hold the line" which is like an elongated collisionbox stretching out from both sides of the melee, effectively blocking the mob from getting past it. This would require much more positioning and strategy amongst partymembers then a Stun ability though. But could open up all sorts of tactics.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What differences in basic combat can you be envisioning that would make them very different from theme park combat? It's the same stuff. Even just conceptually, what could be all that different from Everquest, SWTOR, LOTRO, WoW, any of them? You aggro some mobs and use various abilities to kill them. They usually run towards you and try to hit you. You either stand toe to toe with them, or kite them, or CC them, or root them, or AE them, or whatever.
What's going to be different?
I don't know what they're actually implementing so I can't say for sure.
But perhaps certain mobs are programmed to go after healers because they are a little smarter and know that the healer is the threat. Or maybe not and they have animal intelligence.
But to your specific point, this game will not have a point person to hold all the aggro so everyone else in the group doesn't have to worry about being attacked.
The difference between those games you mentioned and PFO is that PFO is intended to be a sandbox game. The ones you listed are Theme Park games and all use Trinity to balance out their scripted boss fights.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Stand Still. It's related to Combat Reflexes. I was also thinking we should try to include it. :)At work so I don't have my books with me but what's that feat that prevents a person from passing them? Do Not Pass? Shield Wall? Zone of Control? I believe it is in the APG.No taunt mechanic planned or expected for the reasons listed in the Ryan quote Nihimon posted. Fighters get a bunch of ways to crowd control on Opportunity, but the creature AI is largely ignoring crowd control right now. Ultimately, we're looking more at ways for a Fighter to be able to actually interdict opponents from getting past than faking it with taunts.Maybe using knockbacks like the Ogres seemed to be doing on me? :)
yeah, I think that is the one. They still have to be close enough to you to make it work. You can't pull them from a distance with that feat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There really isn't a problem with the "Trinity"
the roles exist because they are viable roles across nearly every spectrum of gaming. You don't call your guy who lays down suppression fire the Tank, but his benefit to the group is the same.
The only problems I have ever seen with the "Trinity" is when games take it too far and make it impossible to perform a function without the "Trinity".
The Trinity is popular because it works.
Just make it to where we can have groups full of Wizards and have a viable playstyle.
My favorite Set-up in PF TT is the following:
High AC/Martial character
High DMG/ Ranged or martial character(Get your Flank on)
Healer
Crowd Control.In Tabletop the most powerful classes are the ones that can shape the battlefield and directly effect it without giving the enemies a save.
This. Technically you could still use a Trinity style tactic. I'm guessing because the game is just getting underway in development. But I can absolutely see a fighter containing mobs through CC. The mobs might still be trying to go for the DPS or healers, but the other members of the group can stun, slow or impair the mobs from reaching the target.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?
The big problem with the Trinity is that you get into a feedback loop that leads you to make a Tank that can mitigate a truly ridiculous amount of damage - the kind of damage that would nearly one-shot a caster, for example. You have to do that because the whole point of the Trinity is to make sure the Tank is taking all the damage. There might be games that want to spend the time and resources to develop different combat mechanics for PvE vs PvP, but I don't think PFO is one of those given its budget. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to kill a Tank in PvP if they mitigated against other players the same way they would have to mitigate against 6 Ogres beating on them?
I expect - and very much look forward to - parties where there's a quick run-down of assignments before a combat. I think this is fairly standard at the tabletop isn't it? I think that's the natural way to deal with things in PvP, too. Eventually, those assignments don't even need to be voiced anymore, if the group has a lot of experience working with each other.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?The big problem with the Trinity is that you get into a feedback loop that leads you to make a Tank that can mitigate a truly ridiculous amount of damage - the kind of damage that would nearly one-shot a caster, for example. You have to do that because the whole point of the Trinity is to make sure the Tank is taking all the damage. There might be games that want to spend the time and resources to develop different combat mechanics for PvE vs PvP, but I don't think PFO is one of those given its budget. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to kill a Tank in PvP if they mitigated against other players the same way they would have to mitigate against 6 Ogres beating on them?
I expect - and very much look forward to - parties where there's a quick run-down of assignments before a combat. I think this is fairly standard at the tabletop isn't it? I think that's the natural way to deal with things in PvP, too. Eventually, those assignments don't even need to be voiced anymore, if the group has a lot of experience working with each other.
I'm not sure this is completely accurate. I've only see this as the case in WoW. Other MMOs tend to just go with defensive abilities and Heavy Armor. WoW is the only one I have seen so far that went with Massive HP, Critical hit Reduction, percentage based damage reduction as PASSIVE abilities plus the normal damage mitigation abilities seen in other MMOs. Tanking in WoW involves inserting your left ear to the tab key and rolling your face until your right ear touches your backspace key. Rinse and Repeat until the battle is concluded.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The difference between those games you mentioned and PFO is that PFO is intended to be a sandbox game. The ones you listed are Theme Park games and all use Trinity to balance out their scripted boss fights.
The fact that PFO has sandbox elements doesn't mean the pve combat is substantially different "just because". Your example, the AI going after healers, really has nothing to do with sandbox vs theme park.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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What differences in basic combat can you be envisioning that would make them very different from theme park combat? It's the same stuff. Even just conceptually, what could be all that different from Everquest, SWTOR, LOTRO, WoW, any of them? You aggro some mobs and use various abilities to kill them. They usually run towards you and try to hit you. You either stand toe to toe with them, or kite them, or CC them, or root them, or AE them, or whatever.
What's going to be different?I don't know what they're actually implementing so I can't say for sure.
But perhaps certain mobs are programmed to go after healers because they are a little smarter and know that the healer is the threat. Or maybe not and they have animal intelligence.
But to your specific point, this game will not have a point person to hold all the aggro so everyone else in the group doesn't have to worry about being attacked.
The difference between those games you mentioned and PFO is that PFO is intended to be a sandbox game. The ones you listed are Theme Park games and all use Trinity to balance out their scripted boss fights.
This feels like something of a debate so I'm only going to pop my head in briefly to say:
"What differences in basic combat can you be envisioning that would make them very different from theme park combat? It's the same stuff. Even just conceptually, what could be all that different from Everquest, SWTOR, LOTRO, WoW, any of them? You aggro some mobs and use various abilities to kill them. They usually run towards you and try to hit you. You either stand toe to toe with them, or kite them, or CC them, or root them, or AE them, or whatever.
What's going to be different?"
With a definition this broad it is very difficult to say what will be mechanically different - what you are describing here is every killing mechanic in every game ever. However, if we narrow the definition to be more useful, as Quietus does:
Its about tactics. The important goal we have for PvE is that the monsters do not behave significantly differently from the way that players would behave - much like monsters in tabletop which are controlled by the GM (effectively an omniscient player). Our monsters will have tactics of their own as well as responding to the attacker's tactics. They will not blindly follow aggro lists, but instead will react to certain types of play. Its impossible to see this in the current builds because there is very, very little AI right now. I believe they currently have ONE aggro list for each encounter, passed between the monsters. So first player to tag a monster is going to get them all on him almost indefinitely.
What we want to achieve with monster AI is a system where playing the PvE game is not radically different from playing the PvP game. This is where the distinction lies between PFO and the games mentioned above.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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What we want to achieve with monster AI is a system where playing the PvE game is not radically different from playing the PvP game. This is where the distinction lies between PFO and the games mentioned above.
This is one thing I am really looking forward to seeing. :)
Yes and no, Soves. When somebody is doing "AoOish" things, they are more vulnerable to certain attacks, and feats may be available to make those attacks even nastier.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not sure this is completely accurate. I've only see this as the case in WoW. Other MMOs tend to just go with defensive abilities and Heavy Armor.
You may have played more MMOs than I have. WoW may be the most over-the-top about it, but Vanguard was definitely up there, and EverQuest 2 has a straight up Mitigation stat and passive stats for Block, Parry, Dodge.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Its about tactics. The important goal we have for PvE is that the monsters do not behave significantly differently from the way that players would behave
Are monsters going to prioritize healers and squishies then? I would actually love to see that, and then think on ways to give more tankish characters abilities that make it not only possible to pull the attention of NPCs, but intelligent players.
A really basic example is in SWTOR tanks had abilities that would redirect a lot of the damage from an allied target to themselves as well as mitigating a portion of the damage being dealt.
This allowed actual PvP tanks because they could stick this ability on squishy/high priority targets.
I'm not advocating that exact ability necessarily but things like that, that make their role more viable in PvP.
Then you can have tanks without a threat mechanic.
Well, there is Shield Other.
For the non-Pathfinder folks, that's a cleric spell where you take half the damage an ally takes. Handy if the ally is in the thick of things and you're chilling out on the sidelines.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What we want to achieve with monster AI is a system where playing the PvE game is not radically different from playing the PvP game. This is where the distinction lies between PFO and the games mentioned above.This is one thing I am really looking forward to seeing. :)
My guess is what Nihimon mentioned already: You die easily if you solo, whereas you're more effective in groups. Perhaps that's one key to PvE mob AI, to respond to groups of players patterns and composition of skills/roles?
Ha! found it, you little b*... interesting article, need to re-read it: AI Architectures: A Culinary Guide (GDMag Article)
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Yep, to second Tork, the goal with creature AI* is that it doesn't teach you wrong for PvP. Ultimately, we may never get the mob AI to the point where it's at all mistakable for a player (and we don't WANT all AI to be an uber-hard PvP-style battle), but the hope is to get it to behave somewhat similarly. For example, if a player wouldn't drop everything she was doing to pound on the fighter while he's being healed, a mob shouldn't either; the mob should try to take out the healer. We don't want you to have to use fundamentally different tactics and builds to engage in PvE vs. PvP; PvE may wind up much easier than PvP, but at least you're learning the right kinds of lessons.
So what are those tactics?
With the core four roles, the intention is something like this:
- The Fighters hit the front lines and try to tie up as many targets as possible with CC and body blocking. They hit hard enough that you can't just ignore them (and they hit even harder if you're provoking Opportunity trying to ignore them).
- The Clerics are behind the Fighters. They're tough, but not as tough as the Fighters, so they can take hits, and they're a little more mobile than the Fighters. They try to intercept anyone rushing past the Fighters to get to the squishier characters and slow them down long enough for the squishies to reposition. When they're not catching strays, they heal and buff, or lob focus attacks at the other team's midline.
- The Wizards are in the back, making a terrible nuisance of themselves with CC, debuffs, and direct damage. The enemy would love to paste them, but they're fast and their team is running interference for them so they can hit and then move (possibly running far enough back that the enemy wastes a lot of time trying to chase them down while the other allies are doing damage).
- The Rogues are hitting any enemy that's focused on someone else, and then fading back and running when they capture someone's attention. They do the best DPS in the game against a target that they can sneak attack, but possibly the worst in a stand up fight (different sneak attack types change this slightly), and they have the greatest access to evades to instantly get out of range.
* The AI is, in fact, dead simple right now so isn't accomplishing any of that at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... What we want to achieve with monster AI is a system where playing the PvE game is not radically different from playing the PvP game. ...
This is more true than you may realize. Last night, I was out in the woods, trying my best to kill some NPC archers without being killed. I killed one at the same moment his buddy killed me. The result was an achievement, "Player Killer 1".
I'll try to duplicate the results again (to be able to report it as a bug), of course, but in the meantime it sounds like PvE currently really is similar to PvP.
:P
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Are there currently any slows/grapples/etc that slowdown or stop your character when you are getting attacked? I notced little ? images popping up above my health bar just not sure what they are since they only have a ?. However, I could have sworn in a fight last night when I got ganged up on that they locked me donw so I couldn't move.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Are there currently any slows/grapples/etc that slowdown or stop your character when you are getting attacked? I notced little ? images popping up above my health bar just not sure what they are since they only have a ?. However, I could have sworn in a fight last night when I got ganged up on that they locked me donw so I couldn't move.
There are indeed, and by heavens its brutal! There is a stacking slow debuff that some of the bandit archers apply. The animations/effects are all wrong for it so you just seem to stop dead or slide forward very slowly, but it basically means DEATH right now if you are trying to get away.
I just paralyzed a demon twice in a row with a tanglefoot bag at level nine. He just can't roll good Reflex saves.
What I'm gettin' at is we need tanglefoot bags in the game. ;D
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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The little question marks that appear to the left and right of your health bar are buff/debuff indicators. They get colored chevrons on top and bottom with a size based on how big your current stack of buffs and debuffs are. I think from left to right they're Attack, Defense, Resistance, Speed. Slowed is a Reflex defense and Speed penalty, so you'll probably get similar stacks on either side of your health bar when you're being Slowed. (The color on the chevrons indicates which of three channels the debuff is on, which will make more of a difference once effects are in to clear debuffs from different channels).
Meanwhile, the colored question marks that appear in the curve of your health bar indicate states. There should be six of them in total, but you'll only see the ones you have on you at the moment, and you can mouse over them to see what state they are (frequently Opportunity, Distressed, or Unbalanced). They're scheduled to be tweaked to be easier to notice, as they're your clue that you can use an attack with a conditional effect (on top of that attack lighting up in your bar).
All of them should get actual images instead of question marks hopefully soon.
As I noted somewhere else, creatures tend to ignore crowd control because their AI hasn't been taught about it. They may be affected by Slowed (and it should at least make them easier to hit). Players can suffer Knockdown, but I don't think the animation on it is really working (so it basically just freezes you for the duration). I'm not sure whether Interrupt works on creatures, but it should work on players. None of the other crowd controls (like Immobilize) are working yet, but should be pretty soon.
Slowed is meant to cap at 50% and multiply your armor speed penalty (not add to it) so even a heavy armor wearer would move at 33% of normal speed at worst, but I think it's currently uncapped and stacking additively to your armor penalty, so it's really easy to slow a heavy armor wearer to zero or almost zero speed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are there currently any slows/grapples/etc that slowdown or stop your character when you are getting attacked? I notced little ? images popping up above my health bar just not sure what they are since they only have a ?. However, I could have sworn in a fight last night when I got ganged up on that they locked me donw so I couldn't move.There are indeed, and by heavens its brutal! There is a stacking slow debuff that some of the bandit archers apply. The animations/effects are all wrong for it so you just seem to stop dead or slide forward very slowly, but it basically means DEATH right now if you are trying to get away.
I got hit with that hiking crosscountry last night. If I hadn't been a full-tilt sprint when I ran past them (and thus a good ways away before the attack landed), they would very likely have caught up to me and killed me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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All resistances on the character sheet include the bonus for activating the first keyword. For example, +2 physical resistance for Light, Medium, and Heavy armors (so the base numbers are 5, 15, and 25). Similarly, I believe everyone should be doing 45 base damage with the +0 starter weapons (40 + 5 for the base keyword).
So putting this together, the new scaling appears to be:
Weapon base damage = 40 + 5/minor keyword + 20/major keyword
Cloth physical resistance = 0
Light/medium/heavy armor physical resistance = 5/15/25 + 2/minor keyword + 8/major keyword*
Max 4 minor keywords. 1 major keyword at T2 ("Masterwork") and a 2nd at T3.
Guessing here:
Light/medium other resists = 0 **
Cloth other resists = 2/minor + 8/major **
Heavy other resists = 5 + 2/minor + 8/major **
*I'm guessing at the 8, but everything so far has been 4 minor = 1 major
**Enchantments may increase these further?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just wanted to say a little something.
I got to play for awhile today, switching between Wizard and Fighter.
The game so far has met my expectations and then exceeded them a bit. I love that there are so many skills that lends itself so much specialization and versatility. I wish the server were a bit more stable, but combat seems similar to other games, and I like that there is collision detection, which aids tactical elements.
A few things that need addressing:
Parties
- Party bugs with losing the party hp bars.
- Stamina/Power added (maybe a thin line) to party bars.
- A better way to get back to your party, perhaps displaying them on the larger map, so you can find them easier after death.
Nodes
- I feel like nodes, most of them, break immersion a bit, or just look really really out of place. The "Shiny Rocks" look like cairns, the magical essences look like save points from FF, and the wilderness nodes like like mini fairy lands, or backyard displays.
I feel like you are going to address a lot of the issues that I have above this in the next build from what Lee said today, so won't list those.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Hello !
Excellent first impressions for me.
One little detail bothered me a lot though : When you are using the right click to move your character, the mouse cursor automatically comes back to the centre of the screen. It was very annoying for me, because I had a tendency to lose track of my mouse cursor by accident, and I really need it to use my combat skills.
(Yes people, I know, using the keyboard is better, but I can't, and since we can use the skill bar with the mouse, it should work as intended)
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Goblin Squad Member
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When you are using the right click to move your character, the mouse cursor automatically comes back to the centre of the screen.
It felt wrong to me, too. When using Mouse-Look (hold left mouse button) or Mouse-Move (hold right mouse button), the cursor should disappear at its current spot, and then reappear in the exact same spot when you release.
Releasing from Mouse-Look or Mouse-Move should not count as a click of anything under the mouse - I accidentally targeted party members a few times because of this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like that GW are consciously trying to break away from the trinity for good _reasons_. Tactics, learning, teamwork, options and opportunity abound for smart, sneaky and adaptable characters... profit is likely to follow ;-)
If you want to keep aggro on a character, let them build aggro first and have them actively manage their threat then communicate to their team mates (pre-arranged would be better) to support. I saw this today with the T7V team who were purposefully starting to build team experience with pulls, aggro, limits and skills. Lots of communication and experimenting with different methods, lots of death too. Having battles that aren't all about the pew-pew and button mashing, but something more tactical and adaptable where required (but still action packed and fun) could be what the genre has been crying out for. So even though the trinity might still be there in theory, how they do what they do needs to be more active and reactive (and engaging for everyone.) It might be more a duo-approach now with aggro-magnet + support team. As the AI gets better, new methods will need to be developed by us to deal with the increased NPC smarts.
Finally, I have seen a lot of things to like in the streams to date and nothing that is a dealbreaker. While there is a lot of room for improvement, that has always been the expectation with lean development practices. We still are NOT at MVP yet and that is awesome!
Happy hunting to all you alpha peeps!
- Jascolich
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon rubs bleary eyes and drops a stack of papers on the table next to Nightdrifter.
Dexterity: 10.029
Constitution: 10.029
Wisdom: 10.062
Intelligence: 10.538
Personality: 10.253
Schools (Abjurer, Conjurer, Enchanter, Evoker, Illusionist, Necromancer, Transmuter)
Rank 1 grants: 0.099 Int. Rank 2 requires: Wizard 2, Int 11, Arcane 1.
Arcana (all Library?) 1 & 2 grants: 0.083 & 0.093 Int. Rank 3 requires: Arcane 1.
Power 3 grants: 0.016 Int. Rank 4 requires: Int 11.
Power 4, 5, & 6 grants: 0.017, 0.017, & 0.018 Int. Rank 7 requires: ???
Arcane Attack Bonus 1 grants: 0.082 Int. Rank 2 requires: 11 Int, Arcane 1.
Clothing Armor Proficiency 1 grants: nothing. Rank 2 requires: Willpower Bonus 4, Wizard 7, 14 Int or 14 Per, 12 Dex, 47 Arcane
Attack Feats
Rank 1 grants 0.018 Int. Rank 2 requires: 11 int, Arcane 1.
All have "Restrictions: Provokes Opportunity" unless Range is less than 20 meters
Default
Arctic Winds 1 (Staff, SC: 52, CD: 5.7, DF: 2.66, R: 35)
Effects: Cold Damage, Splash
Other: Targets Reflex, Slowed 50 to All Targets with Unbalanced
Force Hail 1 (Staff, SC: 33, CD: 2, DF: 1.27, R: 35)
Effects: Force Damage, Dispelling (25% chance), Precise +20
Other: Targets Reflex
Winter's Caress 1 (Staff, SC: 33, CD: 2, DF: 1.69, R: 35)
Effects: Cold Damage, Distressed (1 Round, 50% chance), Slowed 15
Other: Targets Reflex
Flare 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.89, R: 20)
Effects: Fire Damage, Distressed (1 Round, 25% chance)
Other: Targets Reflex
Frost Ray 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.89, R: 20)
Effects: Cold Damage, Distressed (1 Round, 25% chance)
Other: Targets Reflex
Sonic Thrust 1 (Wand, SC: 38, CD: 5.7, DF: 1.04, R: 4)
Effects: Sonic Damage, Knockback (10 meters)
Other: Targets Fortitude, Oblivious 40 if Target is Disrupted
War Wizard
Deafening Roar 1 (Staff, SC: 52, CD: 5.7, DF: 2.54, R: 35)
Effects: Sonic Damage, Splash
Other: Targets Fortitude, Oblivious 50 to All Targets with Disrupted
Electric Brand 1 (Staff, SC: 52, CD: 5.7, DF: 2.77, R: 35)
Effects: Electric Damage, Streak
Other: Targets Reflex, Exhausted 40 to All Targets with Distressed
Hellflume 1 (Staff, SC: 33, CD: 2, DF: 1.57, R: 35)
Effects: Fire Damage, Distressed (1 Round, 50% chance), Burning 15
Other: Targets Reflex
Boiling Blood 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.75, R: 20)
Effects: Fire Damage, Afflicted 5
Other: Targets Fortitude
Bright Rune 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.52, R: 20)
Effects: Fire Damage, Oblivious 5
Other: Targets Fortitude
Eel's Touch 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.52, R: Melee)
Effects: Electric Damage, Distressed (1 Round, 50% chance)
Other: Targets Fortitude
Shard Spray 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.8, R: 20)
Effects: Physical Damage, Distressed (1 Round, 25% chance), Bleeding 5
Other: Targets Reflex
Windrider 1 (Wand, SC: 39, CD: 5.7, DF: 0.82, R: 4)
Effects: Electric Damage, Evade (20 meters)
Other: Targets Reflex, Knockdown (2 seconds) if Target is Unbalanced
Wyrmling Breath 1 (Wand, SC: 40, CD: 5.7, DF: 0.75, R: 20)
Effects: Fire Damage, Splash
Other: Targets Reflex, Burning 20 to All Targets with Distressed, Interrupt to All Targets with Distressed
Occultist
Remove Energy 1 (Staff, SC: 33, CD: 2, DF: 1.62, R: 35)
Effects: Cold Damage, Slowed 10, Unbalanced (1 Round, 75% chance)
Other: Targets Fortitude
Chill Touch 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.69, R: Melee)
Effects: Negative Damage
Other: Targets Reflex
Downburst 1 (Wand, SC: 40, CD: 5.7, DF: 1.97, R: 20)
Effects: Physical Damage
Other: Targets Reflex, Knockdown (2 seconds) if Target is Unbalanced
Frighten 1 (Wand, SC: 14, CD: 0.8, DF: 0, R: 20)
Effects: Frightened 10
Other: Targets Fortitude
Ghostly Grasp 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.42, R: 20)
Effects: Psychic Damage, Unbalanced (1 Round, 50% chance)
Other: Targets Fortitude
Grasping Shadows 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.75, R: 20)
Effects: Physical Damage, Slowed 10
Other: Targets Will
Nightmarish Foe 1 (Wand, SC: 40, CD: 5.7, DF: 0.94, R: 20)
Effects: Psychic Damage
Other: Targets Will, Frightened 30 if Target is Distressed
Shadow Ray 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.33, R: 20)
Effects: Force Damage, Interrupt (25% chance)
Other: Targets Reflex
Torporous Rune 1 (Wand, SC: 15, CD: 0.8, DF: 0.38, R: 20)
Effects: Physical Damage, Exhausted 5, Unbalanced (1 Round, 25% chance), Slowed 5
Other: Targets Fortitude
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Decius carries volume two of many, falling asleep even before the stack of papers hits the floor
Focus WP 1
49 xp
Prereq
wis+.083 personality .083
Divine AB 1
36 xp
+4 Divine attack bonus
wis +.085 personality .082
Seminary divine focus spells:
Name: Battle Rage 1
40 XP
wis+.036
Stamina cost 42
cooldown 5.7
damage factor 0
range 20
Effects:
Riposting (1 round) to target, Mind Blank 30 to target
Restrictions:
Beneficial
Name: Bleeding touch 1
40 XP
wis+.036
Stamina cost 22
Cooldown 1.2
Damage factor 0
Range melee
Effects:
Physical damange, bleeding 20, unbalanced (1 round, 50% chance)
Other:
Targets fortitude
Name: Dazing touch 1
40 XP
wis+.036
Stamina cost 13
cooldown 0.8
Damage factor 0
Range: melee
Effects:
Dazed (1 round)
Other
Targets will
Name: Dispelling touch 1
40 xp
wis+.036
Stamina cost 17
Cooldown .8
Damage factor 0
Range: melee
Effects:
Dispelling
Other:
Targets fortitude.
Name: Defending Weapon
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina Cost: 6
Cooldown: .6
Damage factor: 0
Range: 20
Effects:
Defending (1 round) to target)
Restrictions:
Beneficial
Other:
Name: Destructive Smite
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost: 40
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:.99
Range: Melee
Effects:
Physical Damage
Restrictions:
Other:
Targets reflex, Bleeding 40 if Target is Distressed
Name: Doom
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost:20
Cooldown: 1.2
Damage factor:0
Range:20
Effects:Negative Damage, Frightened 5
Restrictions:
Provokes Opportunity
Other:
Targets will
Name: Fire Bolt
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost:15
Cooldown: .8
Damage factor:.15
Range:20
Effects: Fire Damage, Dispelling (25% chance) Burning 5
Restrictions:
Provokes Opportunity
Other:
Targets reflex
Name: Holy Lance
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost:40
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:.74
Range:20
Effects:
Holy Damage (ed.- Holy damage, batman!)
Restrictions:
Provokes Opportunity
Other:
Targets reflex, Oblivious 20 if Target is dazed, Base Damage +10 if target is dazed
Name: Icicle
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost:15
Cooldown: .8
Damage factor:.11
Range:20
Effects:
Cold damage, distressed (1 round, 25% chance), Slowed 5
Restrictions:
Provokes opportunity
Other:
Targets reflex
Name: Liberation
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost:44
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:0
Range:20
Effects:
Freedom 30 to Target, Shrug Off to Target
Restrictions:
Beneficial
Other:
Name: Lightning Arc
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost: 40
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 0.67
Range:20
Effects:
Electric Damage
Restrictions:
Provokes Opportunity
Other:
Targets reflex, Dispelling if Target is Unbalanced, Exhausted 40 if target is unbalanced
Name: Minor Cure
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost: 45
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:0
Range:Melee
Effects:
Heal 100 to Target
Restrictions:
Beneficial
Other:
Name: Touch of Darkness
40 XP
wis +.036
Stamina cost:44
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:1.47
Range:Melee
Effects:
Negative Damage
Restrictions:
Other:
Targets will, Oblivious 70 if target is disrupted.
Cleric Trainer feats:
Holy Symbol Implement Proficiency 1:
20 XP
wis 10.987-10.892
Domains 1: (all)
40 Xp
Wis .099
Feature (No tooltip)
Greatsword abilities:
Name: Cleave
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:2.08
Range:3
Effects:
Improved Critical +30, Splash
Restrictions:
Other:
Knockdown (2 seconds) to All Targets with Opportunity, Slowed 40 to All Targets with Opportunity
Name: Cross Blow
Stamina cost: 27
Cooldown: 1.6
Damage factor: 1.31
Range:3
Effects:
Improfed critical +20 Distressed (1 round, 25% chance)
Restrictions:
Other:
Penetrating if attacker has Replying, Precise +20 if Attacker has replying
Name: Hoist
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 2.99
Range:3
Effects:
Improved Critical +20, Slowed 10
Restrictions:
Other:
Knockdown (2 seconds) if Target is Unbalanced, Knockback (10 meters) if Target is Unbalanced
Name: Passing Step Thrust
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 3.79
Range: 3
Effects:
Improved Critical +20, Charge (20 meters), Penetrating
Restrictions:
Open (1 round) to attacker
Other:
Bleeding 40 if Target is Dazed
Name: Swing
Stamina cost: 33
Cooldown: 2
Damage fact0r: 2.28
Range: 3
Effects:
Improved Critical +20, Bleeding 10
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Wind-Up
Stamina cost: 56
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 4.39
Range:3
Effects:
Improved Critical +20, Removes Open to Self
Restrictions:
Other:
Interrupt if Target is Distressed, Exhausted 40 if Target is Distressed
Name: Wrath Guard
Stamina cost: 33
Cooldown: 2
Damage factor: 2.65
Range:3
Effects:
Improved Critical +20, Defending (1 round) to Self
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Wrathful Strike
Stamina cost: 33
Cooldown: 2
Damage factor:3.36
Range:3
Effects:
Improved Critical +20
Restrictions:
Open (1 round) to attacker
Other:
Unbalanced (1 round) if Attacker has Replying
Longsword abilities:
Name: False Edge
Stamina cost: 15
Cooldown: .8
Damage factor: .19
Range: Melee
Effects:
Distressed (1 round, 25% chance) oblivious 5
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Hamstring
Stamina cost: 55
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 1.4
Range: Melee
Effects:
Restrictions:
Other:
Slowed 60 if Target has Opportunity, Interrupt if Target has Opportunity
Name: Slash
Stamina cost: 21
Cooldown: 1.2
Damage factor: 1.33
Range: Melee
Effects:
Improved Critical +10
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Thousand Cuts
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor:1.69
Range: Melee
Effects:
Restrictions:
Other:
Improved Critical +30 if Target is Distressed, Bleeding 60 if target is Distressed
Name: Understrike
Stamina cost:21
Cooldown: 1.2
Damage factor:.77
Range:Melee
Effects:
Improved Critical +20, Distressed (1 round, 50% chance)
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Whirlwind
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 2.37
Range: Melee
Effects:
Splash to Self
Restrictions:
Stationary
Other:
Bleeding 20 to all targets with Unbalanced, Knockdown (2 seconds) to All Targets with Unbalanced, Improvd Critical
+20 to All Targets with Unbalanced
Bow Abilities: (unless otherwise noted, all of these have the restriction "Provokes opportunity")
Name: Bullseye Shot
Stamina cost: 33
Cooldown: 2
Damage factor:1.39
Range:35
Effects:
Precise +20, Penetrating, Improved Critical +10, Bleeding 10
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Distant Shot
Stamina cost: 33
Cooldown: 2
Damage factor: 1.96
Range: 35
Effects:
Long Range, Improved Critical +10, Distressed (1 round, 50% chance)
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Half Draw
Stamina cost: 21
Cooldown: 1.2
Damage factor: 1.17
Range: 35
Effects:
Improved Critical +10, Interrupt (50% chance)
Restrictions:
Other:
Name: Impact Critical Shot
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 2.54
Range: 35
Effects:
Precise, Penetrating
Restrictions:
Other:
Improved critical +40 if Target is Unbalanced, Knockback (10 meters) on Critical Hit, Knockdown (2 seconds) on
Critical Hit
Name: Impaling Shot
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 1.5
Range:35
Effects:
Streak, Improved Critical +10
Restrictions:
Provokes opportunity, Reduced Range, Stationary
Other:
Bleeding 30 to Al Targets with Dazed, Frightened 30 to All Targets with Dazed
Name: Patient Anchor
Stamina cost: 52
Cooldown: 5.7
Damage factor: 3.47
Range: 35
Effects:
Shrug Off to Self, Improved Critical +10
Restrictions:
Other:
Revealed (3 seconds) if Attacker has Alert, Immobile (2 seconds) if Attacker has Striking
Name: Pinpoint Targeting
Stamina cost: 33
Cooldown: 2
Damage factor: 1.62
Range: 35
Effects:
Precise +10, Penetrating, Improved Critical +10, Slowed 10
Restrictions:
Other:
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see the trinity as that big a deal. What exactly is the vision for how PVE encounters are to go, without some form of the trinity? Aggro bouncing around, lots of kiting and running around, DPS classes scaling back constantly so as not to draw aggro? Or what?
Yes.
Dynamic, unpredictable combat where uber specialists are a liability as often as an asset.
The trinity is the worst thing to ever happen to RPG's imo. Well, second worst, after endgame.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not sure this is completely accurate. I've only see this as the case in WoW. Other MMOs tend to just go with defensive abilities and Heavy Armor.You may have played more MMOs than I have. WoW may be the most over-the-top about it, but Vanguard was definitely up there, and EverQuest 2 has a straight up Mitigation stat and passive stats for Block, Parry, Dodge.
Other metrics indicative of trinitism is just how squishy the dps is; how healy the cleric is. These are as much indicators of trinitism as tankiness in the tank.