I'm using the idea that working with magic is a rather hazardous activity for my campaign setting. It's a portion of my explanation for why post-industrial nations with mass communication and large, well funded educational systems still don't understand magic well at all (I prefer this setting to have magic that mostly takes off of witchcraft in theme, being dark and mysterious). You have to do graduate level calculations that don't actually use consistent input or mathematical laws, and when you get it wrong bad things happen. Every spellcaster gets hurt on account of screw ups. It's part of being a spellcaster. Granted, they don't usually kill themselves, but that's mostly because medical care is really, really good. This explanation necessitates having the rules to back it up. Essentially, spellcasters need to have a change to have stuff go up in their faces, the effect should be thematically interesting and mechanically relevant, but the effects shouldn't be so insurmountable as to make spellcasters annoying to play. Any ideas?
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1. Misfire chance ala wild magic rules or gun rules. Role a d20 every time you cast a spell. On a 1 or whatever you want (maybe some magic is more dangerous) something goes horrible wrong
2. Magic is like a poison. The more powerful the magic the more potent the poison. Casters take ongoing damage with a DC based on spell level until they make a save.
3. Magic is actually sucking out your life force as you use it. This is basically a story based approach rather than a mechanic. The more magic you use the faster the caster ages and the GM can make that important or not to suit the situation.
4. All magic requires a pact with some outside force. Some are good and some are bad but all demand certain sacrifices and proofs of allegiance.
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Pathfinder magic as written isn't really set up to be dangerous to the caster. Here are some things I have done in the past. These things don't actually make magic dangerous, but they can make magic SEEM dangerous:
- Make NPC casters rare and usually evil (but powerful), usually involved in something dangerous like artifact creation or unleashing dangerous forces. Basically, the bad guys have all the magic they need, but severely limit the PCs access to friendly NPC spellcasters. If they do need to bargain for a favor from an NPC spellcaster, the negotiations should be costly and prickly.
- Have magically active PCs attract the attention of caster NPCs, and not the good kind of attention. Magic might also attract demons, gods, or other strange entities, so that the life of a PC caster becomes very interesting.
- Don't be afraid to throw cursed items in the party's path in addition to the normal loot. They don't have to be massively deadly cursed items - maybe just stuff that is useful and still works but has adverse side effects. Do it just often enough that the PCs become wary of new items.
- Give the PCs access to an item or items with artifact level powers that do amazing things but have horrific side effects, and allow the PCs to discover how horrific the side effects are without having to endure too much abuse first. I've had a group of PCs carrying around a massively powerful item for practically an entire campaign that they NEVER used for fear of the consequences.
- Surround NPC caster characters, magic items, and magic events with backstories that involve lots of tragedy or lots of evil or both.
Mike: The first concept works best, but I'll have to put thought into what exactly the effects of a misfire are. Ideally, they'd be connected to the spell being cast.
I should mention that magic being dangerous is not the only change to spellcasting. I'm switching from having dedicating casting stats by class to having casting stats assigned to schools of magic and eliminating spell preparation. Also, spell points and easy metamagic.
Pathfinder magic as written isn't really set up to be dangerous to the caster. Here are some things I have done in the past. These things don't actually make magic dangerous, but they can make magic SEEM dangerous:
- Make NPC casters rare and usually evil (but powerful), usually involved in something dangerous like artifact creation or unleashing dangerous forces. Basically, the bad guys have all the magic they need, but severely limit the PCs access to friendly NPC spellcasters. If they do need to bargain for a favor from an NPC spellcaster, the negotiations should be costly and prickly.
- Have magically active PCs attract the attention of caster NPCs, and not the good kind of attention. Magic might also attract demons, gods, or other strange entities, so that the life of a PC caster becomes very interesting.
- Don't be afraid to throw cursed items in the party's path in addition to the normal loot. They don't have to be massively deadly cursed items - maybe just stuff that is useful and still works but has adverse side effects. Do it just often enough that the PCs become wary of new items.
- Give the PCs access to an item or items with artifact level powers that do amazing things but have horrific side effects, and allow the PCs to discover how horrific the side effects are without having to endure too much abuse first. I've had a group of PCs carrying around a massively powerful item for practically an entire campaign that they NEVER used for fear of the consequences.
- Surround NPC caster characters, magic items, and magic events with backstories that involve lots of tragedy or lots of evil or both.
The problem is that this all fosters a lot of public distrust, and when a setting has mass communication available every incident can end up front page news. It'll prod governments into putting their feet down, and that's not necessarily a route I want to take. I want it to be hazardous, take years to learn (I think of it like language, where if you don't learn as a kid you'll always have a much harder time. So hard, you can't really start studying after becoming a teenager, because schools won't take you in. Too dangerous to have that little control.), and be very mysterious, but I don't want it mostly associated with evil.
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The problem is that this all fosters a lot of public distrust, and when a setting has mass communication available every incident can end up front page news. It'll prod governments into putting their feet down, and that's not necessarily a route I want to take. I want it to be hazardous, take years to learn (I think of it like language, where if you don't learn as...
My personal approach to magic is the PCs are the most magical part of the game world, so my settings don't actually have mass communication or other magic-powered conveniences as a part of them. For me, public distrust is part of the point.
I've made several attempts in the past to come up with alternate magic systems, but they have all ended up altering the balance of the game far more than I like, so my approach these days is to just use the rules as written but have them for the most part apply only to the PCs and their opponents rather than society as a whole.
Probably the best idea I came up with for making magic dangerous was the idea that casting magic cost hit points, basically. Either casting a spell inflicted CON damage on the caster or else it inflicted direct Hit Point damage, depending. This insured that no matter how healthy and hale a caster started out, they would all end up sickly and frail eventually. I thought it was a neat idea, but I have a hard time imagining players going for it.
The problem is that this all fosters a lot of public distrust, and when a setting has mass communication available every incident can end up front page news. It'll prod governments into putting their feet down, and that's not necessarily a route I want to take. I want it to be hazardous, take years to learn (I think of it like language, where if you don't learn as...My personal approach to magic is the PCs are the most magical part of the game world, so my settings don't actually have mass communication or other magic-powered conveniences as a part of them. For me, public distrust is part of the point.
Magic powered conveniences are extremely rare in my setting, too. Spellcasters are too rare, because they take to much time, expense, and care to train, and only a few children have the discipline for it. Mass communication in my setting comes from the fact that I bumped up the tech level significantly to be a mashup of stuff from the second half of the 20th century, so that motorized transportation, television and radio, and mass production are all facts of everyday life without magic having to be involved (no internet or cell phones, though). I do have magic as something everybody in the world knows full well exists, but they don't really know anything about how it works.
Public distrust would work for some campaigns but not others. My favorite organizations within my setting are those charged with keeping rogue spellcasters and monsters under control, and they need trust. Members of a third world rebel army? Not so much.
Probably the best idea I came up with for making magic dangerous was the idea that casting magic cost hit points, basically. Either casting a spell inflicted CON damage on the caster or else it inflicted direct Hit Point damage, depending. This insured that no matter how healthy and hale a caster started out, they would all end up sickly and frail eventually. I thought it was a neat idea, but I have a hard time imagining players going for it.
I don't like sickly and frail spellcasters. I like the idea that magic is versatile and powerful, as are spellcasters, but one wrong thought and it's time for some pain.
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The problem I see is that any system that makes Magic directly dangerous to the PCs will make the players more reluctant to use it unless there's a way for them to carefully manage the risk - and then at that point they're spending all their energy on risk management.
I'm not saying don't do it, just be sure to discuss your ideas thoroughly with your players beforehand.
What if I made severe accidents something that mostly happens in school, not with experienced casters (which even a 1st level PC is by virtue of about a decade of schooling), and made a PC's accidents more along the lines of being temporarily dazed?
One suggestion is to check out the pathfinder freeport companion for the rules on corruption.
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- Have magically active PCs attract the attention of caster NPCs, and not the good kind of attention. Magic might also attract demons, gods, or other strange entities, so that the life of a PC caster becomes very interesting.
I like this approach; it has the feel of Middle Earth, where at some times Gandalf was nervous about using his magic because of the attention it would attract.
This would be some kind of very low level 'Detect Magic' that all casters used continuously, with the level of attention based on the level of the spell.
Cantrips would probably attract no or little attention. A level one spell might make a magical creature or a caster a couple of rooms away realise that low level magic was used nearby, but a (say) fourth or fifth level spell might give them a better idea of the distance and direction of the magic usage; creatures with scrying might take a look at what's going on.
This may give magical creatures nearby warning of the party's approach; they could use it to prepare for attack, sneak up on the players or hide, depending on their relative abilities and attitudes.
A sample house rule:
- Arcane magic creates ripples in the world that attracts the attention of arcane magic casters and magically aware creatures nearby. The distance these ripples reach is (casting level)-squared x 60 feet. Arcane casters and magically aware creatures within (castiing level)-squared x 30 feet may make a Spellcraft skill check to learn the arcane school and approximate direction and distance of origin of the spell that was cast.
- Casters may choose to cast a spell as a lower casting level to reduce the amount of attention they attract, although not lower than the minimum level to cast that spell.
- Cantrips count as a caster level of 1/2 for the purposes of this, attracting attention within a 15 feet radius.
- Spells cast from wands, staves or other magical items create a magical field in the same way as directly cast spells.
Example
- A 9th-level spell cast with a caster level of 20 would be detectable within 24000 feet (4 1/2 miles). Within 12000 feet (2 1/4 miles) arcane casters could make a Spellcraft skill check to know the approximate distance and direction and arcane school of the magic.
The party is staying at an inn when the bard and wizard sense the use of magic nearby.
[The GM invites both to take a Spellcraft check. The bard fails but the wizard succeeds.]
Archie the bard ran into the inn's common room.
"Did you feel that?" He said.
Io the wizard nodded slowly.
"Someone is using powerful necromancy about a mile to the north of us."
[The rogue's player asks to use his Knowledge - Local to find out what might be there.]
Korwyn the rogue chipped in. "That's where the abandoned tower is. I've heard ghost stories about that place for years."
Example 2
- "Leave this to me," Orthos the sorcerer smiled grimly, rolling up his sleeves.
A fireball sprung from his hand, burned through the corridor, and cremated the charging group of kobolds.
"Nice!"
[The GM notes that the level six sorcerer's fireball is noticeable to magic users within 6x6x60 = 2160 feet, and the dragon two chambers to the north is well within the 1080 feet for it to find out more. In secret he makes a Spellcraft check for the dragon).
"OK," continued Orthos confidently. "According to our information, that little dragon is not far from here and always asleep at this time of day. Let's make sure he never wakes up."
Hmm, I like this approach - though the numbers etc. might need a little tweaking.
Probably the best idea I came up with for making magic dangerous was the idea that casting magic cost hit points, basically. Either casting a spell inflicted CON damage on the caster or else it inflicted direct Hit Point damage, depending. This insured that no matter how healthy and hale a caster started out, they would all end up sickly and frail eventually.
In the Tunnels and Trolls RPG, spells had a cost in Str points. Str points lost from spellcasting were regained at the cost of 1/turn. After using a powerful spell, a caster might need help carrying his gear for a while. After casting several, he might need to sit and rest up before continuing.
If you give spells a simple cost of 1 point /spell level, that could work ... A wizard would need a Str of at least 10 to be able to cast a 9th level spell at all because of the demands on his body, and it would be another 20 minutes (2 turns = 2 points of strength recovery, back up to Str 3) before they could move again.
We might allow them to cast down to 0 Str - at which point they would fall unconscious for 10 minutes. Casting to below 0 Str would kill them outright - and they'd know it - but some good-aligned wizards might make the ultimate sacrifice to save the party with a last big spell.
I guess you could take the same approach with hit points or Con instead, or even have the caster choose which it came from - although that would be much more to keep track of.
I don't know how well this would work mechanically; it would be better at adding flavour.
Personally I'm not a big fan of this approach (not least because of having to keep track of time vs strength recovery), but it's one way it could work.
1. Misfire chance ala wild magic rules or gun rules. Role a d20 every time you cast a spell. On a 1 or whatever you want (maybe some magic is more dangerous) something goes horrible wrong
Or alternatively, if they lose concentration while casting the spell may misfire, rolling to see what the exact effect was, instead of just losing the spell.
An example set of rolls:
1-5 Spell lost.
5-10 Spell worked but affected a different target to the intended one, chosen at random from those within range (danger of 'friendly fire')
11-15 Spell's effect was 25% of that intended (apply the 25% to any that apply out of damage, range or duration, at random)
15-19 Spells effect was 50% of that intended ((apply the 50% to any that apply out of damage, range or duration, at random)
20 Spell still worked normally
Interesting premise.
Hoping I’m correctly interpreting what you are looking for – you’re looking for something that will mostly impact NPC casters, while still allowing PC casters to have mostly the same ability to cast with only a slight chance for mechanic detriment to the PCs. Is that about right?
Couple of options occur to me. I would probably not use all of them together, but mixing & matching a few might help work things out in your head about some possible solutions to your campaign planning.
Auric Reverberation
You had mentioned wanting spell casting penalties to mostly affect those who were amateurs or still in training, but not to affect the “professionals” (ie the PCs) as much. One solution would be to create an effect where lingering magics interfere with spell casting attempts requiring a concentration check or spell penetration check in order to be able to successfully cast a spell. Penalties for failure could be either direct hitpoint damage or perhaps some sort of thematic effect depending on the type of spell being cast (being burned by spells with the fire or light descriptor for instance, temporarily blinded by those with the darkness or shadow descriptor, demanifested flesh or body parts for those of the teleportation types, etc.) This would mean that there would have to be time to “clear” areas of magical energy and would severely hamper “hedge magicians” who may not have access to the amounts of space that magical academies could offer. You could also introduce ways to more quickly clear lingering magical auras (or even slow them for investigational purposes) (I have an image of special tuning forks or temple bells being used to “clear the air”.)
Concentration difficulties & shortcuts
Another option would be to require a concentration check for casting any given spell. I would probably make the DCs fairly low, but this would mean that “optimized” casters with the higher bonuses to their concentration checks might automatically pass anything that would otherwise be a chance for failure for someone without a sufficiently high attribute bonus or decent caster level. Imposing a greater difficulty than just a lost spell for greater levels of failure (5+, 10+, 20+, etc.) or depending on the level of the spell would also add to the difficulties. Again, I would recommend hp damage based on your original post, but perhaps also casting attribute damage, negative temporary hitpoints, skill check penalties, increased penalties on future concentration checks for a limited time, or other “debuffs” would also be appropriate.
Depending on the “flavor” of your spell casting, this could also be why the “professionals” use Arcane Bonded items – to cut down on the concentration difficulties, they use a familiar, an outside focus, or other type of magic tool to lower the DCs of the concentration checks for “everyday” spell casting.
Dresden-esque Tech Issues
You mentioned your setting is modern-ish. There is a long tradition of magic & technology not playing well together.
One option would be a Dresden Files type of approach where magic interferes with technology, possibly increasing (or causing) misfire chances with firearms, issues with internal combustion vehicles, and interference with radio & microwave technologies.
A second, somewhat reversed option, would be to have technology interfere with the magic. Perhaps spell-casters are more vulnerable to radiation, microwave technology & other “background energies” than mundane folks. Maybe exposure or proximity to certain chemicals or substances also inhibit casting (lead-based paints?). Those who are more proficient casters know via a combination of training & field practice how to minimize their exposure & risk with interfering technologies, those who are new or amateur casters may not even realize what it is that is interfering with their magics.
Finally, a combination of the above could cause interesting small chain reactions as magic causes firearms to misfire, the chemicals from the gunsmoke causing spells to fail and the spell failure cascading into greater breakdown of technology in a localized area.
Hope that helps.
-TimD
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Our home group's had a lot of success with a "magical fatigue" mechanic, reflecting the common fantasy trope that high-level spellcasting is physically draining for the caster. It's essentially a sliding scale of Fortitude saves, based on spell level; once you fail you become fatigued, then exhausted. And if you keep casting beyond exhausted, you start taking damage.
We're considering whether to keep it at simple HP loss, or actual ability damage.
Nice - this looks like it would work well; how about if you cast while exhausted you become unconscious (possibly after another Fort save) and take, say, d4 * spell level nonlethal. (or just take nonlethal on each casting once exhausted until they become unconscious at 0 hp).
I think the save should also have something to do with the mastery ... presumably by the time a caster reaches, say, 12th caster level, they should find 1st level spells far less exhausting than they did when they were a 1st level caster? Somehow by the time they reach higher levels, they've learnt how to cast the spells more efficiently so they have less drain on their bodies? I'm not sure how you factor that as a modifier into a simple mechanic though. Or do you see the physical drain being constant, irrespective of the character's skill - it's just a matter of the amount of 'magical energy' shifted through their body.
How do you adjust the Fortitude save for spell level? Do cantrips still exhaust their users? (They feel to me like they shouldn't). Suddenly the 'Great Fortitude' feat sounds more attractive (and that Con penalty for Elves sounds more of a problem; though given their apparently natural affinity for spellcasting, I'd be tempted to give elves and gnomes a bonus for spell-exhaustion checks).
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Auric Reverberation
You had mentioned wanting spell casting penalties to mostly affect those who were amateurs or still in training, but not to affect the “professionals” (ie the PCs) as much. One solution would be to create an effect where lingering magics interfere with spell casting attempts requiring a concentration check or spell penetration check in order to be able to successfully cast a spell. Penalties for failure could be either direct hitpoint damage or perhaps some sort of thematic effect depending on the type of spell being cast (being burned by spells with the fire or light descriptor for instance, temporarily blinded by those with the darkness or shadow descriptor, demanifested flesh or body parts for those of the teleportation types, etc.) This would mean that there would have to be time to “clear” areas of magical energy and would severely hamper “hedge magicians” who may not have access to the amounts of space that magical academies could offer. You could also introduce ways to more quickly clear lingering magical auras (or even slow them for investigational purposes) (I have an image of special tuning forks or temple bells being used to “clear the air”.)
In Terry Pratchett's entertaining Discworld series, residual magical fields are left behind at the sites of former magical battles and, to a lesser extent, around the Unseen University where many wizards operate. These fields can cause random magical events to occur if strong enough, as well as over time potentially turning local animals into magically enhanced versions.
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Public distrust would work for some campaigns but not others. My favorite organizations within my setting are those charged with keeping rogue spellcasters and monsters under control, and they need trust. Members of a third world rebel army? Not so much.
While not so much to make magic more dangerous, but historic feudal Japan had an actual ministry of the government called the Onmyodo that was responsible for the training and 'licensing' of legal practitioners of the arcane arts. All unlicensed practitioners were considered 'witches' more or less and are sought for capture, trial and execution. Of course they believed magic was real.
In Kaidan, wizards of the Onmyoji archetype are trained and licensed by the Ministry of Onmyodo, all other practitioners are under the constant threat of arrest by samurai and the potential for execution.
Also what must be stated, both feudal Japan and Kaidan were/are police states. If an unlicensed arcane practitioner chooses to fight (cast attack spells) onto samurai while trying to avoid arrest, risk retribution onto themselves, their families, even their entire home village can be put to the torch for any serious resistance to actions of the state.
Have something bad happen when someone blows a concentration check, like ability damage.
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Midnight is the way to shine.
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- Have magically active PCs attract the attention of caster NPCs, and not the good kind of attention. Magic might also attract demons, gods, or other strange entities, so that the life of a PC caster becomes very interesting.
I like this approach; it has the feel of Middle Earth, where at some times Gandalf was nervous about using his magic because of the attention it would attract.
This would be some kind of very low level 'Detect Magic' that all casters used continuously, with the level of attention based on the level of the spell.
My own method was/is much more narrative/social. If anyone publicly presented themselves as a spellcaster, then word would get around to the other mages in the area. Then that caster would suddenly have people scrying on him, people trying to get at his spellbook, people warning him to get out of their "turf", etc. Not to mention the non-casters who would show up looking for help with ancient curses and trying to get the caster involved in all sorts of shenanigans.
In my most recent campaign, the party wizard was not cautious at the start of his career, and ended up getting the attention of several powerful groups. Sometime very late in the story he finally learned a spell to detect scrying, and the first time he cast it was shocked to realize that he was being watched by at least six different entities. He got a lot more paranoid after that. :)
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Magic shouldn't be just a rote set of incantations, gestures, and rituals designed to consistently and safely produce the same effects with the same ingredients. To me, being a mage should be less about "[yawn] Slay Living, [yawn] Fireball, [yawn] Summon Monster IX, [bored] Power Word Kill, I have trivialized the combat for the day" and more about "holy dog carp u guyz i can totally set teh orc army on fire liek a Christmas tree but it might kill us all! Should I do it anyway TOO LATE!!! i already made the thaumaturgy!! XD"
......All right, maybe that's a little too extreme, but my point is that magic should be:
*Powerful- mages should be rightly feared for their powerful magic.
*Fickle- just because you know how the spell should work doesn't mean it's going to be true. Even your cantrips cause ripples in the Arcane Sea.
*Inherently dangerous. You might not like what happens when you don't account for those ripples.
So how do we make mages the powerful/feared/likely to get screwed over?
Option 1 - It Only Hurts When I Cast
Microlite20 had in its default rules that all spellcasters actually burned their own hit points to power a spell (twice the spell's level + 1). You could do it this way to make magic more of a "Guys, we NEED this, the situation's that bad" thing than "Look what happens when the goblins line up in a fifteen foot cone and I cast Burning Hands! They go '(ANGUISHED SCREAMING IN GOBLIN)'" scenario. (And reward mages who specialize by reducing the cost of spellcasting for their specific school.)
Option 2 - Maybe I Should Visit the Acadamae More Often
You could have a mage make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. If he makes it, the spell goes off without a hitch; if he fails by 5+ or rolls a natural 1, that's when the bad things happen. I'm talking stuff like he burns away some of his life essence (yay, Constitution damage!), accidentally gates in a couple elementals (who might want to bludgeon the mage and his pals to death), the spell has the exact opposite effect, or the mage finds his spellcasting suddenly cut off for a few hours. Be creative, but be fair.
This should not be something easily mitigated by other effects- the Constitution injury can only be healed by time, not magic; the accidentally summoned elementals do not give an experience reward; the mage doesn't go for his stock of wands and scrolls- when he's cut off for 1d8 hours, the flow of mana means he's out of the spellcasting fight for one to eight hours.
Option 3 - Burn ALL the Books
Or you could just make magic dangerous by ripping off a rule from Wheel of Time d20. You gain a mage level, you get 1d6 permanent Insanity points. Once you reach a certain threshold (too lazy to check) and the Fun Stuff (for the DM) happens!
Alternately, you could borrow the class, uh, "feature" the maho-tsukai from Oriental Adventures has (which requires your character to be corrupted by insanity/darkness already). Every time you gain a level, you have to make a Will save to avoid taking another maho-tsukai level (and thus further condemning yourself to whatever tarrasque-filled eternity of agony your character's earning!)
Perhaps, like certain things in the real world, magic use builds up a form of toxic waste or destructive energy which has to be successfully bled off. Failure to do so can cause undesired side-effects on the caster or his surroundings (maybe effects similar to the effects of taint in Heroes of Horror?)
To illustrate and use common terms, spells build up "backlash" - say x% per spell level. If a caster reaches 100%, detrimental effects occur. A caster can discharge y% per day. Assume x = 1 * spell level, y = 1/2 caster level (min 1) + relevant stat.
Detrimental effects could be opening brief dimensional portals in the area, effects on the caster, etc.
Off the cuff example, but hope it helps
I'd be careful with Wild Magic rules. While it's kind of fun for it to occasionally happen in an area of wild magic, it does become derailing if it continuously happens. I think having magic weaken you for a time would be more thematic and less wonky from a game design standpoint.
EDIT: I actually really like the spellblight rules. I definitely will be using those in the future.
2nd Edition D&D had some interesting variants for Magic.
Channelling would cause you to get fatigued if you casted your more powerful spells
Witchcraft made magic a Finite resource that could only be recharged by making bargains with other worldly beings
Preserver/Defiler system had magic rip the lifeforce out of the land around you. You could either cast slowly and not hurt the land, or quickly and render large chunks of it unable to support life for decades to come.
Alienist Magic: Where every new spell you learn came with a test against insanity. Higher the spell level the greater the chance it would break your mind.
The more I look at it, the more I like Spellblight. Definitely want to use that in the future.
The Spellblights are a good option.
Especially if you utilize some of the lesser versions and make so there are several different versions of the maladies.
Hmmm... a world where all casting carries a malady attached to it... I like this idea. (Yoinked for a future project).
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The Spellblights are a good option.
Especially if you utilize some of the lesser versions and make so there are several different versions of the maladies.
Hmmm... a world where all casting carries a malady attached to it... I like this idea. (Yoinked for a future project).
I was thinking about each spell cast adding 1% per spell level, and every time a spell is cast, I roll a d% to meet or go under that value as the spellblight chance. So if you cast three level 2 spells, that adds 6%. So I have to roll 1-6% to give that caster a spellblight. Would make spell casting a little more dangerous. I may up it to 2%... we shall see...
Check out the various incarnations of the "Warhammer fantasy roleplay". I havent used it's magic system much (because of the tremendous risk). Basically, you roll to succeed at magic, and if you fail, you slowly go insane. JOY!
Check out the various incarnations of the "Warhammer fantasy roleplay". I havent used it's magic system much (because of the tremendous risk). Basically, you roll to succeed at magic, and if you fail, you slowly go insane. JOY!
That might be too offputting for my players. I prefer the gradual doom for them :)
I was thinking about each spell cast adding 1% per spell level, and every time a spell is cast, I roll a d% to meet or go under that value as the spellblight chance. So if you cast three level 2 spells, that adds 6%. So I have to roll 1-6% to give that caster a spellblight. Would make spell casting a little more dangerous. I may up it to 2%... we shall see...The Spellblights are a good option.
Especially if you utilize some of the lesser versions and make so there are several different versions of the maladies.
Hmmm... a world where all casting carries a malady attached to it... I like this idea. (Yoinked for a future project).
I like the idea of the maladies being part and parcel of the casting. I would of course tone down the lethality of a few of them.
If I did something, I would make casting taint you with raw elemental energy. Slowly, you gain elemental traits, like an outsider. It makes you a bit stronger, but the taint starts to devour your mind and body. Eventually, you'll become a pure elemental that's barely sentient.
Call of Cthulhu has great rules for this. The downside: they aren't universal rules, they vary by spell...one spell might simply cost a few Sanity points, another might drain your Half your ability scores substantially AND cost you some Sanity.
I have that book, but I've never used it. I'll take a look.
I'm pretty much set on either wild magic or spellblights. I don't like casting from HP or steady corruption. I like the idea of spell backfires being something you'll feel, but not bad enough to put you out of the fight, and not common enough to a constant drag.
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Call of Cthulhu has great rules for this. The downside: they aren't universal rules, they vary by spell...one spell might simply cost a few Sanity points, another might drain your Half your ability scores substantially AND cost you some Sanity.I have that book, but I've never used it. I'll take a look.
I'm pretty much set on either wild magic or spellblights. I don't like casting from HP or steady corruption. I like the idea of spell backfires being something you'll feel, but not bad enough to put you out of the fight, and not common enough to a constant drag.
I'm speaking of the BRP version (any edition...Paizo makes more substantial changes in reprints than Chaosium has made in over 30 years and across 6 editions), not the d20. I think CoC d20 does something similar, but like practically everything else in the book, nowhere near as well as the BRP version.
*Checks bookshelf*
I have D20.
I had another thought; give ALL (permanent) magic items an alignment.
If the alignment of an item clashes with the alignment of the character or other equipment in the character's possession it causes a negative level as for intelligent magic items.
This should cut down on easy sharing/finding of extra magic items.
It would also be fun to have magic items react to each other when brought close to other items of another alignment in a way that's a nuisance to the players (i.e. with chaotic and lawful characters on the same party).
One thing that I did in the past was have magic potentially drive the user insane if they're not careful. Only minor DCs, and you could take 10, but spellcraft was required to... craft (prepare) your spells. If you rushed it, suddenly the DCs were harder to make (you couldn't take 10). If you failed, you rolled a will save against the level of spell you were trying to make... or rather the GM did for you. If you succeeded, no harm done (!*). If you failed, you were subject to a confusion effect, and lost sanity (ala the sanity rules in the old 3.0 Unearthed Arcana book; tiers of insanity were low [cantrips-3rd lvl], medium [4th-6th level], and high [7th lvl-9th lvl]; if they existed, then there was also an epic sanity loss with spells, which amounted to two will saves: 1 v. permanent insanity and the other v. losing all sanity points forever**). If you crit failed your save (natural 1, roll natural 1 to confirm a "critical failure"), you were struck by a permanent insanity effect, as well as losing your sanity**.
In that setting, magic was chaotic and/or evil by nature, while the language of magic (noted as being "illumian"; the gods used a similar-but-different language "supernal" to enact magic***) which was purely lawful to cause it to obey their whims instead of their own. There was also a tendency toward the spontaneous production of wild magic (though as noted above, that could prove... tedious), when illumian wasn't used or was done badly (I don't know that I ever really got around to giving this a hard value).
I did a lot more with that setting that you probably don't care about (conjuration was really rare and obscure, illumian had it's own skill****, and casters were unable to really get above 3rd level spells without ritual circle magic****, spellfire was a thing^, as a few off-the-top-of-my-head examples), but you probably don't care about those so much. I did make all illumian-based casting prepared casting, but it was prepared with slots, and then cast with points. Spontaneous casters (when they existed) were simply considered blights upon reality; they didn't use illumian and were thus either entirely chaotic, entirely evil, or both. They had to make far too many saves against their own power (since illumian wasn't used, but only their innate abilities and raw, channeled magic), and inevitably failed them.
In any event, magic was ubiquitous - it was considered necessary for powering civilization! - but it was always dangerous. It's like a civilization that was bootstrapped past the industrial revolution directly into nuclear power. It's probably quite safe, clean, and eco-friendly until something goes wrong, at which point it goes horribly, horribly wrong.
Hope that helps! (I'll read more responses to the thread later. I... skipped a bit, here.)
* You always had to make a fortitude against a badly prepared spell, when it was cast. Fortitude v. a random disease or poison effect, but with the DC determined by your own spell instead. Roll a 1d4 for afflictions: 1) disease, 2) drug, 3) poison, 4) roll twice. Then roll randomly on the relevant chart. Some casters become addicts and keep intentionally rolling spells wrong to get the high. Others actually mutate into alien monstrosities by way of miscast magic (the origin of all aberrations: also, this is a plot-based effect rather than a strictly mechanical one, though I toyed with making it happen on double-natural 1s - i.e. they had to crit-fail their fortitude saves, like the critical failure on their will saves above.
** A subtle, but important distinction. The latter meant you could never really recover from.
*** Supernal was a later addition to the mythos, after 4E came out. Prior to that I'd had them using illumian too, but just being better. The trick with supernal is, though, that mortals can't use it. In any event, magic is kind of true-naming-like idea in this world, with all magic requiring verbal components, or a carefully written variant thereof. Supernal basically makes magic behave properly, with no attempt on the gods' part, effectively granting them any spell that they can guess at in existence of 5th level and below as an at-will spell-like ability.
**** This is basically the Truespeak skill from Tome of Magic, and a highly variant form of Circle Magic from Forgotten Realms without the normal caps of those two abilities.
^ Spellfire... wasn't really a good thing. It always produced a wild magic effect, and a rod of wonder effect, though anyone could take the prestige class (effectively a partial-gestalt of wild mage, spellfire adapt, and warlock) for great personal power. It never ended well. For anyone.
Neat info, gamer-printer.
In Terry Pratchett's entertaining Discworld series, residual magical fields are left behind at the sites of former magical battles and, to a lesser extent, around the Unseen University where many wizards operate. These fields can cause random magical events to occur if strong enough, as well as over time potentially turning local animals into magically enhanced versions.Auric Reverberation
You had mentioned wanting spell casting penalties to mostly affect those who were amateurs or still in training, but not to affect the “professionals” (ie the PCs) as much. One solution would be to create an effect where lingering magics interfere with spell casting attempts requiring a concentration check or spell penetration check in order to be able to successfully cast a spell. Penalties for failure could be either direct hitpoint damage or perhaps some sort of thematic effect depending on the type of spell being cast (being burned by spells with the fire or light descriptor for instance, temporarily blinded by those with the darkness or shadow descriptor, demanifested flesh or body parts for those of the teleportation types, etc.) This would mean that there would have to be time to “clear” areas of magical energy and would severely hamper “hedge magicians” who may not have access to the amounts of space that magical academies could offer. You could also introduce ways to more quickly clear lingering magical auras (or even slow them for investigational purposes) (I have an image of special tuning forks or temple bells being used to “clear the air”.)
What's interesting is that I've played around with this before, though I've never read the Discworld series and generally I fluff it as magical pollution or magical "run-off".
Also, in my setting mentioned above all magical items, except charged items were "cursed" somehow, but that mostly meant that they had requirements and (mostly minor!) drawbacks associated, not that they were the more brutal cursed items (though some certainly were).
Also, it was very magic-driven economy/world, unlike your own, but the magic was charged, needed constant refreshing, and meant that mages were both super-respected, but also a kind of super-grunt-work tier class. Without mages, sewage overflowed (prestidigitation!), water stopped running (this was before create water had a time limit! Also, magical water-pumps!), and garbage became sentient and began to eat people (the mages neglected to mention that this was... also because of magic; in any event, this is the origin of otyughs, rage winds, and ragomuffyns).
It was considered very prestigious, but was also dangerous, viewed with suspicion, and very taxing mentally and emotionally.
Magic that ages you - as I said in another post, something I occasionally miss from AD&D. I think they did an example of it in the movie Covenant. Magic use was addictive and overuse would age you. If using something like this, I'd set a reasonable threshold for free use, then a chance for minor aging effects if exceeded.
If I remember correctly, I think one of the characters fathers was in his mid to late 30s, but had aged himself to his 70s-80s from over use.
I like the idea of making a spellcraft check every time you cast a spell. If you roll low, something bad happens. Your fireball does 1/2 damage, or your alter-self spell changes gender. If you roll high, something good happens. You might be able to add a metamagic feat for free, or your enlarge person spell makes the target huge instead of large. The key is to make magic unpredictable.
TimD and Da'ath reminded me of a concept I'd been musing for a while, of stealing the notion of 'rads' from atomic engineering. You know; lifelong contamination and all sorts of unwholesomeness when you exceed a certain limit?
Cavalier: Why don't you just cast meteor swarm every time we have a fight?
Sorceror: Lifelong exposure. First- and second-level stuff is negligible, but the more powerful the spell I run through my body, the more likely I am to wake up someday - maybe tomorrow, maybe when I'm eighty - with, oh, it could be anything. A rash. Spontaneous explosion. A donkey head.Not that it would stop PCs. None of us expect our characters to live to the Old age category anyway, eh?
That's interesting. It actually functions well, mechanically, with a slight variant of my own thing. The roll is for more of a mechanical explanation of when, but the idea is that it does happen, and is likely to result in a similar effect.
