Creative Director
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I'm trying to figure out what sort of Path Abilities Arueshalae should take as she advances through the Trickster path and was hoping you could give some suggestions?
Considering her incredible Bluff skill, I was thinking that Combat Trickery is probably a good choice. I'm also considering making her the Mortal Herald of Desna (from the Mythic Origins book) with the Liberation domain.
Those sound like fine choices.
Were I upping her tier for my game or for print, I'd need to spend more time looking through the options, and that's not something I've got time to do now. Because it's now BEDTIME!!!! POOF!!!
Holy crap! Did anyone else just see that T-Rex vanish like a ninja?!
Holy crap! Did anyone else just see that T-Rex vanish like a ninja?!Like the ninja, it was all trickery. I never vanished. I simply let the world vanish around me.
Does Liz Courts do the same thing, except she lets the internet vanish around her?
Are such antics the TRUE reason the Webstore has been going down throughout the past week or so?
Have you ever seen Jojo's Bizarre Adventure?
The eidolon kinda reminds me of the Stand mechanic from the third series onward.
I saw you mention Brevoy was based on Game of Thrones, so I went and read about it in the ISWG. I gotta say, you guys really do amazing jobs creating all the regions in the Inner Sea. Not only do you give a wide variety of settings to choose from, you give multiple hooks and character concepts for each one, you guys really do it right. I remember recently trying to read up on an older campaign setting and they didn't have anywhere near the tools Paizo gives us. Thanks for all the hard work.
I also noticed Belkzen borders 5 or 6 different nations, all of them pretty varied and narratively opposed to Orcs. How high are the chances of an Orc Warband needing to be put down by the combined forces of these nations?
Or is it more likely you just wanted as many borders for Orc based stories as possible?
Non-Fantasy Fantasy game. Sounds pretty good, on your list?
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Creative Director
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Holy crap! Did anyone else just see that T-Rex vanish like a ninja?!Like the ninja, it was all trickery. I never vanished. I simply let the world vanish around me.Does Liz Courts do the same thing, except she lets the internet vanish around her?
Are such antics the TRUE reason the Webstore has been going down throughout the past week or so?
I suppose if the Redmond power grid did a ninja trick and vanished that would explain why the city (including Paizo) lost power for about 90 minutes back on Friday... hmmmm...
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Creative Director
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A Quasi-Deity is someone who has the power of a demigod but not the authority of a demigod=(planar realm,outsider servants) am i right?
A quasi-deity is someone who has the power to grant spells, but has one or more of the following:
1) Grants fewer than 4 domains, AND/OR..
2) Is CR 25 or lower. This one means that for most PCs, who at 20th level and tier 10 are essentially CR 24, getting into demigod level requires something more than simply maxing out your level and tiers.
If you DO grant 4 domains AND you're CR 26 or higher, you're a demigod.
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Creative Director
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I also noticed Belkzen borders 5 or 6 different nations, all of them pretty varied and narratively opposed to Orcs. How high are the chances of an Orc Warband needing to be put down by the combined forces of these nations?
Or is it more likely you just wanted as many borders for Orc based stories as possible?
Now and then, some powerful charismatic leader rises up and unites the bickering orc tribes into one dangerous mass. It's happened at least twice before (once with Kazavon and once with the Whispering Tyrant), and some day will likely happen again. At that point, the orc army will indeed need some sort of alliance from the surrounding nations to deal with them.
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Creative Director
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Non-Fantasy Fantasy game. Sounds pretty good, on your list?
I've heard about it, but it's not yet on my list. I prefer fantasy in my fantasy. Not really as interested in historical fiction RPG type content, really. When it's out, I will decide if I'm buying it based on a combination of whatever video game competition it has at the time and reviews.
2) Is CR 25 or lower. This one means that for most PCs, who at 20th level and tier 10 are essentially CR 24, getting into demigod level requires something more than simply maxing out your level and tiers.
How does someone go beyond maxing out their level and tiers?
Heya!
For the Fighter Archetype Viking, What Rage Powers does he qualify for at what level? Under the Rage Class Feature it says his Barbarian level is -3 his Fighter but I'm not sure if that applies to qualifying for Rage Powers...or does it?
Basically can the Viking take higher level Rage Powers when he gets to that point?
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Creative Director
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2) Is CR 25 or lower. This one means that for most PCs, who at 20th level and tier 10 are essentially CR 24, getting into demigod level requires something more than simply maxing out your level and tiers.How does someone go beyond maxing out their level and tiers?
With the current rules, the only way to do this really is to gain templates or Racial HD or arbitrary new powers. All of which a GM can apply to NPCs as needed to make a CR 26 or higher foe, but which aren't really allowed to players.
By design.
The game needs to be able to present powerful foes of a CR of 5 or 6 higher than what the PCs are capped at, so that at highest level, you can still have the ability to create powerful encounters like you could at lower levels.
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Heya!
For the Fighter Archetype Viking, What Rage Powers does he qualify for at what level? Under the Rage Class Feature it says his Barbarian level is -3 his Fighter but I'm not sure if that applies to qualifying for Rage Powers...or does it?
Basically can the Viking take higher level Rage Powers when he gets to that point?
His rage class feature is his barbarian level -3. That does indeed impact when he gets to pick his higher level rage powers.
If Jimmy Cracked corn and nobody cared why'd they write a song about it?
If 7/11 is open 24-7 then why do they have a closed sign?
If knees bent the other way, what would chairs look like?
If aliens of higher intelligence why do they always abuct the stupidest people?
Final question and this one is tough,
Mathematically prove Fermat's Last Thereom?
Last question (but with your foresight you new the previous one wasn't the last one) write an equation that is whole and complete?
Finally, ( ;) ) when is the Northern Los Angeles County and Ventura County gonna get some Pathfinder Society love?
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Creative Director
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If Jimmy Cracked corn and nobody cared why'd they write a song about it?
If 7/11 is open 24-7 then why do they have a closed sign?
If knees bent the other way, what would chairs look like?
If aliens of higher intelligence why do they always abuct the stupidest people?
Final question and this one is tough,
Mathematically prove Fermat's Last Thereom?Last question (but with your foresight you new the previous one wasn't the last one) write an equation that is whole and complete?
Finally, ( ;) ) when is the Northern Los Angeles County and Ventura County gonna get some Pathfinder Society love?
I hope so—hate that song.
So the dude staffing the place can go to the bathroom.
Like they look in the mirror.
If they're of higher intelligence, they can't NOT abduct stupid people.
X=Y This is correct for ANY theorem as long as you never define X or Y.
X=Y works for this one too.
As soon as you guys stop stealing water from us Northern Californians!!!! :P (On a more serious note... that's a MIke Brock question, since I'm not sure what kind of love you're looking for... and stop taking our water!)
Would you say that a large number of good tieflings end up worshipping Ragathiel?
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Creative Director
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Would you say that a large number of good tieflings end up worshipping Ragathiel?
Nope.
I'd say that the majority of good tieflings end up worshiping deities who are more welcoming of accepting tiefling worshipers, and who would thus appeal more to their sensibilities. As a goddess of redemption, I think Sarenrae's probably got the lock on this... good deities who are more intolerant and quick to anger as far as fiendish influences are concerned will have churches that are similarly intolerant and thus not too welcoming of tieflings.
Mr. James Jacobs,
What are the chances that Rahadoum will eventually want to and try to "Forcibly Export" their brand of "Social Reform"?
Are there elements within their secular theocracy that would want to do this?
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Creative Director
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Mr. James Jacobs,
What are the chances that Rahadoum will eventually want to and try to "Forcibly Export" their brand of "Social Reform"?
Are there elements within their secular theocracy that would want to do this?
Do you mean, what are the chances that the citizens of Rahadoum will rebel against the Laws of Man and try to upend the country to make it something new?
There are absolutely people in Rahadoum who would love to see this happen. Chances of it happening are remote, though, since that would be a fundamental change to the nation, and we're not keen on changing regions of the Inner Sea like that.
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Mr. James Jacobs,
What are the chances that Rahadoum will eventually want to and try to "Forcibly Export" their brand of "Social Reform"?
Are there elements within their secular theocracy that would want to do this?
Do you mean, what are the chances that the citizens of Rahadoum will rebel against the Laws of Man and try to upend the country to make it something new?
There are absolutely people in Rahadoum who would love to see this happen. Chances of it happening are remote, though, since that would be a fundamental change to the nation, and we're not keen on changing regions of the Inner Sea like that.
I think he meant what are the chances of them trying to force the Laws of Man on other countries.
Hello James,
I have a few questions about Wrath of the Righteous:
- I would like to know more about Kestoglyr and his companions. From what planet do they came from? Is there anything else you can tell us about them, apart from what appears in the adventure?
- Herald of the ivory labyrinth says that two objects inside the vault can help the characters against baphomet, but in the Baphomet encounter section nothing is written about this. What is the supposed effect of having the items (beyond the obvious use of the weapons against him). What's the deal with the nonmagical ball of twine? I'm curious.
- Can you recommend some useful spells that you think Baphomet will carry as scrolls when facing the PCs? 3-4 would be more than enough, if you can.
- How did Baphomet came into possesion of Aizerghaul?
- Are there any possession rules in Pathfinder? One of my players asked a few questions about how they can detect if someone is possessed. The only rules about this that I could find are on Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss. The most important aspect of them is if a demon can be detected while inside of a host; and if and how the demon hides his presence inside a body.
Thanks!!
Mr. James,
Rysky is correct. What are they chances they would want and try to force the laws of man on other countries?
Would you ever consider setting an AP in Golarion's past?
EDIT: To clarify, nothing worldbreaking/shattering like Wrath of the Righteous that might seriously alter the future (present) world of Golarion, either win or lose, but something smaller, or even a "big" event that has yet gone undocumented in the annals of Golarion's history.
Also, on a more humorous note, are there ever "Aroden Sightings" in Golarion?
James, how do you take to players asking for (apparently) minor changes to mechanics of class features for the purposes of fitting a character but not to power game?
To be more specific, I am curious how you would feel about making a change to the language options for the tongues curse available to oracles and a slight change to the fluff of the possessed archetype.
Example
A player has an azlanti human character who is an oracle of the ancestor mystery and the possessed archetype (Some oracles are possessed by spirits, demons, or similar beings. Instead of the possessed oracle drawing her powers from deities, these otherworldly forces work their magic through her).
1.What if, for fluff purposes related to being an ancestor mystery oracle, the player wanted the character to speak Azlanti in combat instead of one of the standard choices (those languages are available as starting languages for several races and as bonus choices for humans). Would you be willing to entertain the idea?
2. What if the change to the possessed archetype fluff was that the player wished the "possessing" entity to be something like a remaining fragment of Aroden's power that was somehow entwined with the character instead of a (living) deity?
TIA, and sorry for such a long double question
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So mortals like Iomedae, Norgorber and Cayden Cailean basically had 10 mythic ranks BEFORE they took the Test of the Starstone, correct? 10 ranks in Mythic and Divine Source makes you a Quasi-Deity, and taking the test basically pushes someone at that point over the edge into true divinity?
And speaking of which, how did Arazni become a demigod?
Probably, yes; although we've not yet and might never map out how they went from mortals to gods.
And as for Arazni... she was invested with holy power by Aroden when he made her his herald, and he also gave her quasi-deity powers, and when she died and was brought back as a lich, those abilities became corrupted. She's technically not a demigod but a quasi-deity in any event.
I see. So, was she a wizard before she became a herald? I find her use of rapiers and wizardry interesting when her title was The Red Crusader, and her greatest follower, Iomedae, favors the longsword instead.
Are there any LG gods who have associations with storms and stuff? I'm looking to design a paladin with a lightning motif, much like Heironeous of the old 3.5 Greyhawk days.
Is the H silent in Heironeous?
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No, I believe the pronunciation is "high-row-nee-us"
So
Is the H silent in Heironeous?
would be erroneous?
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Creative Director
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I think he meant what are the chances of them trying to force the Laws of Man on other countries.Mr. James Jacobs,
What are the chances that Rahadoum will eventually want to and try to "Forcibly Export" their brand of "Social Reform"?
Are there elements within their secular theocracy that would want to do this?
Do you mean, what are the chances that the citizens of Rahadoum will rebel against the Laws of Man and try to upend the country to make it something new?
There are absolutely people in Rahadoum who would love to see this happen. Chances of it happening are remote, though, since that would be a fundamental change to the nation, and we're not keen on changing regions of the Inner Sea like that.
Oh! The chances of Rahadoum trying to spread and conquer other countries are slim; they're not really into that type of thing. It'd make an interesting adventure path, I suppose... but unless we decide to do something like that, chances of Rahadoum officially trying to spread their doctrines to other nations on a mass scale are pretty much zero.
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Creative Director
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Hello James,
I have a few questions about Wrath of the Righteous:
Spoiler:1- I would like to know more about Kestoglyr and his companions. From what planet do they came from? Is there anything else you can tell us about them, apart from what appears in the adventure?2- Herald of the ivory labyrinth says that two objects inside the vault can help the characters against baphomet, but in the Baphomet encounter section nothing is written about this. What is the supposed effect of having the items (beyond the obvious use of the weapons against him). What's the deal with the nonmagical ball of twine? I'm curious.
3- Can you recommend some useful spells that you think Baphomet will carry as scrolls when facing the PCs? 3-4 would be more than enough, if you can.
4- How did Baphomet came into possesion of Aizerghaul?
5- Are there any possession rules in Pathfinder? One of my players asked a few questions about how they can detect if someone is possessed. The only rules about this that I could find are on Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss. The most important aspect of them is if a demon can be detected while inside of a host; and if and how the demon hides his presence inside a body.
Answers:
2) The items you can use against Baphomet in his vault are the ball of twine and the Heart of the Herald. The way the heart can be used against him is detailed in the treasures section of the adventure. It works even better, though, against the Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth himself, of course! The ball of twine is an easter egg of sorts; it's meant to evoke the twine used in the old Minotaur myth from real world that Perseus used to navigate the labyrinth. Whether or not the ball of twine is the same one Perseus used, or that Baphomet is that same original Minotaur... that's left unclear. In any event, whatever the significance of the ball, it's important to Baphomet. Originally, you could destroy the ball of twine in Baphomet's presence to inflict some sort of penalty on him... but it looks like that might have been cut from the adventure...
3) He's really really smart. Let him use his smarts; metagame. You know what spells your players would be hurt by; those are the spells. If you know your party has no problem hitting AC 45, let him use shield and mage armor. If you know your party uses lots of sonic damage, let him use protection from energy (sonic). If there's a wizard who is disintegrate happy, let him use greater spell immunity or (even better) spell turning. Pick spells that are custom choices to protect him SPECIFICALLY from your party and how you know they fight and what you suspect their tactics might be against him.
4) He made it.
5) There's several sources for possession rules. The easiest are found in the description for the magic jar spell. We've published much more detailed rules for possession in Pathfinder #28, and for a time I considered using them in this AP, but the article about them is quite long and I couldn't figure out how to quickly summarize them without forcing folks to either buy that older volume or overwhelming the already too-busy editorial staff to make it into a free web enhancement or addition to the book or whatever. The rules in Fiendish Codex I can work too if you want. Some demons in particular have ways to specifically possess foes as well; check out the lilitu demon or the oolioddroo demon in The Worldwound for examples there. As for how you detect a demon when it's possessing a foe... detect evil or detect chaos are the easiest ways. Demons can hide themselves by using things like misdirection or the like.
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Creative Director
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why do some people on the forums think Rahadoum is a land of freedom? do you think Rahadoum is a land of freedom?
I suppose because some folks consider religion to be a shackle and that the lack of religion would equate to freedom.
I disagree. I think that Rahadoum is a land of oppression. Which makes it a very interesting location for adventures themed with "fight the government" or "defend the government," but not so great a location to serve for any other adventure.
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Creative Director
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Do demodands have racial names for each type of them other than the simple names they have based on their appearances similar to how devils have two names for each kind, one descriptive like ice devil and horned devil, and one that's their actual name like Gelguon and Cornugon?
Do pit fiends have another name along those lines?
With the current rules, the only way to do this really is to gain templates or Racial HD or arbitrary new powers. All of which a GM can apply to NPCs as needed to make a CR 26 or higher foe, but which aren't really allowed to players.
By design.
The game needs to be able to present powerful foes of a CR of 5 or 6 higher than what the PCs are capped at, so that at highest level, you can still have the ability to create powerful encounters like you could at lower levels.
Why does there have to be a built in foes that area always 5 or 6 higher than the party? I'm having trouble seeing the reasoning myself. Most Adventure Paths and modules don't go to level 20 as it is, and I would think most people that play them stay around the recommended level range for each one so it can't really be a problem with designing products or playtesting. The only problem I can see at a quick glance is finding challenges for xp gain once one reaches those levels, but fudging that is easier than creating new individual rules systems to get players beyond being where mythic goes now.
In any case couldn't the GM just control what level he wanted players capped at if that was a concern for the GM instead of there being some hidden force that stops them at some point. (Despite non-demi-god NPCs in the setting somehow still getting around them like Tar Baphon and Baba Yaga and probably others just on Golarion.) Without the benefit of GM fiat there is no way one could reach the heights the outer plane lords have even if a group wanted to try that.
Demodands don't have racial names for themselves. They have their species names and their personal names.
Neither do pit fiends. Moreso than most other fiends, pit fiends should be regarded as individuals who have personalities and their own names.
As for the last part... it's part of our philosophy.
Look at it this way. A classic encounter to throw at a party is the one where the whole party has to fight against a single powerful foe. The dragonslaying encounter is the classic example here—the PCs must face a single enormous dragon in a fight. Now... the way the game's designed, if you throw a single creature at the party, the party has a HUGE advantage—they have more actions in each round to take against the monster, who only (normally) gets to go once. If that monster is of a CR that's equal to the party's average level (APL), that monster is gonna be defeated fast, with the party likely using 20% or less of their resources to do so. An encounter of a CR equal to APL is not meant to be a tough encounter—it's an average encounter, and the expectation is that in most adventures, the PCs will face several CR = APL encounters in a day.
So, in order for a battle against a single monster to matter, to leave an impression, and most importantly, to significantly challenge the party and to actually FEEL like it's a tough battle that deserves to be thought of as an epic boss monster fight... that monster needs to be more powerful than of a CR equal to APL. Page 397 of the Core Rulebook has a table that lists what difficulties an encounter are when you compare CR to APL. An encounter with a CR of APL +3 is considered to be "epic," one that will significantly challenge the PCs and will carry a risk of death for some or all PCs. But then recall what I said above—single monster fights are VERY weighted in the party's favor, so even a single monster of APL +3 CR is going to be at something of a disadvantage against a party of PCs. And so when you want to face the party with a single monster fight, such as the classic "slay the dragon" battle, it's best to go even higher—but not MUCH higher. APL +5 is a good choice there.
So... if you've got a group of 10th level PCs, having them face off against a single neothelid or an ancient white dragon or a 16th level human barbarian (all CR 15 monsters) would be a nice choice for a memorable and deadly and tough "end of the adventure" fight.
So since the level limit is 20, you can see that there's a need for the game to be able to provide CR 25 foes. That's why we designed the tarrasque as a CR 25 monster, why Treerazer is a CR 25 monster, and why, before Mythic came out, you never saw monsters above CR 25.
Now... with Mythic adventures, the maximum APL increased from 20 to 25 (since every 2 mythic tiers = approximately 1 level of power). So that means that we now needed to support the "Single monster fight" with creatures of up to CR 30 in power.
Individual GMs can absolutely control where they cap the players power, and thus set for their own games what the "top monster CR" is... but we can't leave that unsaid. We HAVE to know what the "official" level cap is, because if we don't... we can't design higher level adventures for everyone. For the Wrath of the Righteous AP, we know going in that the cap is at APL 25 (20th level and tier 10). That allows us to design foes for the last adventure who can appropriately challenge those foes. If we didn't have an official level cap, then those foes would only be appropriate for a few games—those games that cap at APL 20 or APL 10 would complain we make our monsters too tough, while those who cap at APL 30 or 40 or 100 would complain we don't know how to design monsters to be useful in battles. This problem is one of the LARGEST ones that plagued 3.5 D&D's epic level rules, which didn't have a level cap. You could gain levels forever. And that made it impossible to really build monsters for expected power tiers. It was an eternal arms race that was super frustrating from a game design. If, for example, I wanted to stat up Cthulhu and make him be a monster that is so tough that he's at the VERY EDGE of what a group of adventurers could hope to defeat, even if they spend an entire campaign building themselves up specifically for that fight... if there's no level cap, no matter what CR I chose to design Cthulhu at, any group could just level up to 10 or 120 or 2000 levels higher and suddenly I've failed at my goal.
Whew... a long-winded response. Hope it answered the question!
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Creative Director
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Would you ever consider setting an AP in Golarion's past?
EDIT: To clarify, nothing worldbreaking/shattering like Wrath of the Righteous that might seriously alter the future (present) world of Golarion, either win or lose, but something smaller, or even a "big" event that has yet gone undocumented in the annals of Golarion's history.
Also, on a more humorous note, are there ever "Aroden Sightings" in Golarion?
We've expended more or less ALL of our resources detailing Golarion in the present. The further back in the past we go... the less we can use what we've created as support material, and the more space and time and resources we need to divert from the actual creation of the Adventure Path to creation of information in the past. Furthermore... the further back we go, the weirder things get. For example, if we were to set an AP in Thassilon... there's no dwarves back then, and the core deities are quite different, and some spells might not yet have been invented.
Doing an adventure set in the past, in other words, would be a VERY difficult undertaking. It's one thing to do an AP where the results can change the face of the world (pretty much ALL of our APs have this potential), since we aren't detailing the world at all in those futures. I really don't want to shatter Golarion's history.
There are indeed Aroden sightings in the Inner Sea region.
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Creative Director
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James, how do you take to players asking for (apparently) minor changes to mechanics of class features for the purposes of fitting a character but not to power game?
To be more specific, I am curious how you would feel about making a change to the language options for the tongues curse available to oracles and a slight change to the fluff of the possessed archetype.
Example
A player has an azlanti human character who is an oracle of the ancestor mystery and the possessed archetype (Some oracles are possessed by spirits, demons, or similar beings. Instead of the possessed oracle drawing her powers from deities, these otherworldly forces work their magic through her).
1.What if, for fluff purposes related to being an ancestor mystery oracle, the player wanted the character to speak Azlanti in combat instead of one of the standard choices (those languages are available as starting languages for several races and as bonus choices for humans). Would you be willing to entertain the idea?
2. What if the change to the possessed archetype fluff was that the player wished the "possessing" entity to be something like a remaining fragment of Aroden's power that was somehow entwined with the character instead of a (living) deity?TIA, and sorry for such a long double question
If a player is eager and into his character enough that he wants to make minor changes to rules and the like... I generally let him, especially if he's looking to do something tied to his character's history and/or the world. Usually, I'll either design the rule change for the player, or at the very least I will retain veto power over the design.
1) Being able to speak Azlanti instead of the choices is a GREAT idea. It's not offered in the actual mystery as an option because that language isn't part of the core rules—it's world specific... but ANY of the ancient languages of Golarion would be cool choices.
2) Also cool.
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Creative Director
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I see. So, was she a wizard before she became a herald? I find her use of rapiers and wizardry interesting when her title was The Red Crusader, and her greatest follower, Iomedae, favors the longsword instead.
Are there any LG gods who have associations with storms and stuff? I'm looking to design a paladin with a lightning motif, much like Heironeous of the old 3.5 Greyhawk days.
In fact... Arazni uses rapiers pretty much entirely because that makes her more recognizable, unique, and interesting. A simple choice like saying she uses rapiers instead of longswords does, in one single word change, wonders for revealing all sorts of things about her personality and attitude and interests and physical build and much more.
Storms are destructive—they are chaotic, not lawful. They don't follow rules; they are hard to predict. A tornado can kill one person dead and carry another 450 feet and only blow off his hat. That's chaotic.
So, associating storms with lawful good deities is off theme.
If you want a lightning-using paladin, I would suggest focusing in on how lightning brings light to the darkness, or about its beauty and awesome power... NOT its association with storms. Depending on your campaign, associating it with electricity and technology would be cool as well.
EDIT: OH! Just associate your paladin with bronze dragons! They're all about lightning.
We've expended more or less ALL of our resources detailing Golarion in the present. The further back in the past we go... the less we can use what we've created as support material, and the more space and time and resources we need to divert from the actual creation of the Adventure Path to creation of information in the past. Furthermore... the further back we go, the weirder things get. For example, if we were to set an AP in Thassilon... there's no dwarves back then, and the core deities are quite different, and some spells might not yet have been invented.
Makes sense. Thanks for your reply.
Following from the very last thing you said here, though, I was wondering- I've long been interested in doing a treatment of magic along the lines of evolving technology; ie, something to the effect of 'the "bronze age" of magic- spell levels 1-5' etc (not that specifically).
Do you envision magic as having gone through a similar sort of "technological" development- where for example, spells of levels 8 and 9 are very recent innovations, or do you see it more along the lines of certain spells being more recent innovations, but the potential for all spell levels was always present, regardless of the relative cultural developmental level?
