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Ki Pool (Su): At 4th level, a monk gains a pool of ki points,
supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing
feats. The number of points in a monk’s ki pool is equal
to 1/2 his monk level + his Wisdom modifier. As long as he
has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike. At
4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated
as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage
reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk
level. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated
as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage
reduction. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated
as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming
damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can
make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus
when making a f lurry of blows attack. In addition, he
can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1
round. Finally, a monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool
to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of
these powers is activated as a swift action. A monk gains
additional powers that consume points from his ki pool
as he gains levels.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest
or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
Ring of Sustenance
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining
nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that
its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit
of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to
prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a
spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must
be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the
owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
This is my question for you. As a monk needing only 8 hours of rest to replenish his ki pool and the ring stating that i only need 2 hours of sleep to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep could after spending my ki pool nap for 2 hours and regain my pool? I think yes but i like your input. Please, un-bias answers, not how Crack this could be. I am just trying to work within the rules...
This is the same as the old spellcaster problem with the Ring...does the 2 hours from the ring trump the 8 hours of meditation?
I'm inclined to go with the spellcaster standard adn say no. However, your argument could go both ways...I suggest you ask your DM for a ruling based on how he views ki vs. magic.
==Aelryinth
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This is the same as the old spellcaster problem with the Ring...does the 2 hours from the ring trump the 8 hours of meditation?
I'm inclined to go with the spellcaster standard adn say no. However, your argument could go both ways...I suggest you ask your DM for a ruling based on how he views ki vs. magic.
==Aelryinth
I'd say no... it specifically mentions spell casters and not monks. It has nothing to do with Ki Points.
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This is the same as the old spellcaster problem with the Ring...does the 2 hours from the ring trump the 8 hours of meditation?
I'm inclined to go with the spellcaster standard adn say no. However, your argument could go both ways...I suggest you ask your DM for a ruling based on how he views ki vs. magic.
==Aelryinth
Arcane Casters have this rule to deal with
Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions: If a wizard
has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces
his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells
for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last
8 hours count against his daily limit.
Divine casters are limited the same rule and by the time of day they choose with there Gods.
Time of Day: A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares
spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require
a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character
chooses a particular time of day to pray and receive spells.
The time is usually associated with some daily event. If
some event prevents a character from praying at the proper
time, she must do so as soon as possible. If the character
does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, she
must wait until the next day to prepare spells.
My question is out side the rules of Casting magic. I am not bound to these rules.
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I would say that you do regain Ki points after a two hour nap.
- Two hours of sleep provides the benefits of eight hours of sleep.
- Eight hours of rest refreshes Ki points
If you do not allow the monk to refresh his Ki points, I think you have either argue that eight hours of sleep does not provide eight hours of rest, or that the discussion of spell casters is an additional function of the ring. I am going to assume that those of you who think the Ki points do not refresh are not claiming that sleep does not provide rest. :-)
However, the text of the ring reads to me as if it is merely stating that one of the consequences is that spellcasters regain spells. The spellcaster text was missing from the 3.5 version, which led to many arguments about spell casters and rings of sustenance. "This allows a spellcaster ..." does not, to me, imply that the following text adds additional abilities.
If you think that Ki points would not refresh, would you force a fatigued character with a ring of sustenance to rest 8 hours to remove the fatigue?
That said, it seems that refreshing Ki should be a 1/day sort of thing, but the rules appear to allow you to recover it as often as you are able. How much of an issue this is probably depends a lot on the campaign.
Spellcasters will run out of spells, so most parties will be forced to rest well before the monk has his 12th nap. If the party is travelling, a 2-hour nap is likely to be difficult to impossible. In an active dungeon, it will usually not be possible to find a safe place for the monk to sleep.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest
or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
That's once a day in my table.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest
or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.That's once a day in my table.
Alas, not that clear cut. What if the Monk is in the habit of sleeping in the afternoon and adventuring overnight and into the morning? He still gets his 8 hours of sleep a day. Does his ki points refresh in the morning still, in the middle of his adventuring "day"?
Alas, not that clear cut. What if the Monk is in the habit of sleeping in the afternoon and adventuring overnight and into the morning? He still gets his 8 hours of sleep a day. Does his ki points refresh in the morning still, in the middle of his adventuring "day"?The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest
or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.That's once a day in my table.
Unlike other abilities that recharge, the RAW is clearcut. It says "morning". I suppose if one really stretched the meaning of "morning", it could apply to other times instead, but there's still only one "morning" per day.
Unlike other abilities that recharge, the RAW is clearcut. It says "morning". I suppose if one really stretched the meaning of "morning", it could apply to other times instead, but there's still only one "morning" per day.Alas, not that clear cut. What if the Monk is in the habit of sleeping in the afternoon and adventuring overnight and into the morning? He still gets his 8 hours of sleep a day. Does his ki points refresh in the morning still, in the middle of his adventuring "day"?The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest
or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.That's once a day in my table.
How does this work on the Astral Plane? Or any other plane with no change to lighting conditions?
What if the day in your world is 56 hours long? as in day-night cycle
In that case most characters suffer. Almost every class has per day abilities. Fighters and Rogues would be the best classes.
The rule specifically says "each morning". The only thing that changes by the ring (if you say it affects Monks) is that instead of 8 hours, it only needs 2. However, it is still only refreshed each morning.
So your Monk can pull an all-nighter, take a 2 hour nap, and be good to go.
Windquake
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"It would be a healthy exercise for every politician to look in the mirror every morning and remind himself that he holds office only because, in a two-man race against another mediocrity, a modest majority of those half-informed people who imagined that their votes mattered reckoned that he was the lesser evil. And they weren't too sure about that." -- Joseph Sobran
I would rule that you just can't fall asleep, has anyone ever tried to take an 8 hour nap 4 hours after waking up? I doubt it was very successful. Since you rest 8 hours worth in 2 hours, I don't think you would be sleepy enough until at least 14 or so hours had passed to take another 2 hour nap. Which would mean your whole party could take first watch, and you take the next 4 but at least you aren't sleeping 2 hours, dungeon for 1 sleep another 2 hours repeat.
If the monk had text like the cleric saying it can only be done at a certain time of day then I would be inclined to agree. But it doesn't, if you wake up at 2 in the afternoon and I knew you just woke up I would say "Good morning".
Essentially I would say that morning just refers to when the monk wakes up an not actual morning.
It's always morning somewhere.
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For simplicity and game balance sake, I, as a GM, would rule that whatever gets you arcane spells back gets you Ki points back. Unless an effect specifically let's you regain spells with less than 8 hrs of rest, assume that it doesn't. So a ring of sustanance does not, (at least, not without another 6 hours of 'resting' even if you're wide awake), but a spell like Nap Stack would.
RAI, I believe, is that Ki points, arcana points, grit, panache, arcane reservoir, all that stuff generally requires 8 hours to fully recharge naturally (ignoring other recharge mechanics, like criti with panache).
If you have trouble reconciling nap stack vs. ring of sustanance, think about it this way: sleeping in pathfinder does two things, it recharges your mind and body, and it recharges your energies. The ring of sustanance only takes care of your mind and body, but the Spell Nap Stack takes care of both.
"Once a day" no longer applies when you can now squeeze 8 hours of sleep into 2 hours. Your "day" has now completely changed. Let's simplify it to say that most people have a waking day of about 16 hours, with sleeping time each night of about 8 hours. A gross generalization to be sure, but stay with me. The owner of a working ring of sustenance could now potentially have a waking day of 22 hours, because the 8 hours of required sleep have been squeezed into 2.
But, let's assume he/she still tires out after 16 hours. So on my first day of wearing the fully functional ring, I wake up at 6:00 AM, and go to bed when I'm tired at 10:00 PM. I will next wake up at 12:00 AM and go to bed at 4:00 PM. Now I wake up at 6:00 PM, and my bedtime becomes 10:00 A.M. Wake up again at noon, go to bed at 4:00 AM. On this day I would also need to go to bed at 10:00 PM on the same day.
So yes, you would be using your 2 hour sleep more than "once per day," if by day you mean the 24 hour period between 12 AM and 12 AM. Not to mention because 8 hour rests are used to heal, everyone here who's ever played Pathfinder or D&D has been in a party that decided to take an 8 hour rest after a battle, regardless of whether it was "bed time" or not. So we can also assume trauma and fatigue tax the body which requires we get a good "night's" sleep much sooner than we normally would, and thus more frequently than usual.
All that being said, there's no getting around the RAW for monks with the whole "each morning" thing. However, it also says "these hours do not need to be consecutive." So the ring of sustenance owning monk with the screwy sleep schedule would just automatically regain ki each morning (dawn?) regardless of what random time of day the last 2 hour rest occurred. Kind of silly, and definitely needing a FAQ, but at least w/ your monk, you know exactly when you're getting the ki back, as opposed to the rage user, who gets it "per day." What does that even mean when you now have the screwy sleep schedule ring user? 24 hours after you used your rage up? 24 hours after the first time you used rage the previous day? (Which would make more sense, because what if you don't use all of your rage in a day?) That one seems much more ambiguous and the source of potentially fierce arguments.
I assume it works like a caster using the ring. However, since a monk needs either 8 hours of sleep or 8 hours of meditation, it's not an unreasonable ruling to say he needs to make up the remaining six hours with meditation.
You'll quickly run into the problem of lack of mechanically defined meditation(as far as I can tell) if you go with the two hour sleep. Since a monk's meditation doesn't need to be consecutive, nor spent in minimum increments, you could declare yourself meditating whenever you stop moving for a moment and easily accrue the 2 hours needed throughout the day. Then you stop meditating when you're a swift action short of your 2 hours and just micro-meditate mid combat. Obviously anyone trying this maneuver will require the full 8 hours of meditation.