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Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of the First World (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of the First World (PFRPG)
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Embrace the Fey

All the trickery and wild power of the fey are yours to command with Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of the First World. Let the wilderness inspire your heroes with a spectrum of new ways to play fey-touched characters, along with new powers for classes seeking to strengthen their bonds with nature. Choose whether you draw your might from the vitality of the land, the brutality of vicious beasts, or even your faith in the fey realm's inscrutable masters, the Eldest.

Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Character options for worshipers of the enigmatic Eldest, allowing members of all classes to manifest their god's influence in unexpected ways.
  • New racial options for both gnomes and gathlains, two player-character races closely tied to the First World.
  • A host of new archetypes, feats, magic items, spells, and other fey-inspired character options!

This Pathfinder Player companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but it can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-941-7

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

Hero Lab Online
Archives of Nethys

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Usual Mix of Good and Forgettable

3/5 —

Legacy of the First World is a 32-page, full-colour entry in Pathfinder's Player Companion line of softcover books. As the title indicates, it covers the First World, which in the official campaign setting of Golarion, refers to a sort of "first draft" of reality from which the fey originate. I've never really gotten much into the fey during my years playing Pathfinder, but there's some intriguing stuff in this book and I could imagine trying to work more into my games. As with too-many books in this line, Legacy of the First World is essentially a collection of several (15) two-page sections assigned to several (10) different freelancers, with the predictable result that there's some wide disparities in writing quality, consistency between sections, and understanding of what's makes for useful gameplay mechanics. In other words, there's certainly some good material in this book, but it has to be sifted out of plenty of dross. The interior artwork is pretty solid, and I like the bold and vibrant use of color. You can judge the cover art for yourself--it looks pretty cool to me (it's reproduced without text as the inside back cover).

As for those two-page sections, they're a real hodgepodge of new spells, archetypes, magic items, character options, and more. There's no way I can cover everything, but I'll try to hit the high- (and low-) lights quickly.

* "Introduction": Along with a bit of background about the First World and a Rules Index, this section discusses specific regions of Golarion that have been particularly influenced by fey, like Darkmoon Wood in Andoran. Each of the region descriptions is accompanied by a new regional trait, and they're all really good--useful and flavourful. I thought the Witchmarket was a fantastic concept (a travelling fey merchant caravan that buys and sells particularly unusual commodities like the buyer's middle name or the ability to see dogs!). I'll surely work it in somewhere.

* "Fey Origins": This section adds new fey-themed alternate racial traits for all of the Core races. Some of them are pretty powerful, like a constant detect magic for elves. There are also a few new story feats (a concept originated in Ultimate Campaign), but frankly what you get for accomplishing the goals is rarely worth it.

* "Legacy of Gnomes": Here we get an alternative racial trait allowing gnomes to play as a Bleachling, and two related feats (pretty mild in effect). There's a new alchemist archetype called the First World Innovator, which looks interesting: fewer bombs, but more variations on what they do. There's also some new alchemist discoveries and alchemical items.

* "Legacy of Gathlains": These humanoid plant-flesh creatures receive several new alternate racial traits (good and balanced), favored class options, and some new feats (hydroponic adaptation is good, but the rest aren't).

* "Touched by the First World": A new "fey-touched" creature template is added here, but the best parts are a new "Pranked" curse for oracles and a "Whimsy" oracle mystery--both are great! There's a new archetype for bards ("First World Minstrel"), but it's pretty forgettable.

* "Fey-Scarred": The theme here is how to fight evil fey, and the section introduces several new alternate racial traits. There's also a really good new hunter archetype ("Feykiller") and some new spells.

* "Scions of the Traitor": This section is for worshippers of Count Ranalc, an interesting member of The Eldest (powerful fey figures). It contains a new slayer archetype called "Ankou's Shadow" which is potentially super-powerful (but with little flavour) and a new rogue archetype called "Shadow Scion" (looks solid).

* "Grown of the Feasting Flower": The Green Mother (another of The Eldest) is the theme of this section. There's a new shaman archetype called "Gasping Vine", but I found it mostly duplicative of existing options. A new witch archetype called "Seducer" isn't bad. There are also several new hexes and spells--thirsting entanglement could be good.

* "Beneath the Towering Twins": A weird member of The Eldest called Imbrex is the premise for a new summoner archetype called the "Twinned Summoner" and . . . I don't get it. There are also some additional evolutions and new teamwork feats, with "conduit casting" a standout.

* "Illuminated by the Lantern King": This section contains what's probably my favorite archetype in the book, the "Fey Prankster" for bards. I could see a lot of creative fun to be had with this one. The section also has a new bloodrager bloodline called "shapechanger" and a separate sorcerer bloodline with the same name but different effects.

* "Servant of the Melancholy Lord": I really like the feel of the Lost Prince, the member of the The Eldest around which this section is themed. There's a new oracle archetype called "Hermit" which doesn't really fit well, but I like the oracle curse "Reclusive." A new psychic discipline, "Sorrow", is okay, but the 13th level ability doesn't really fit the theme. An interesting new feat type for characters who usually adventure solo is introduced, which is a smart idea--there are a lot of play styles out there, and one GM and one PC is a quite-common one.

* "Born of the Three": Magdh the Three is The Eldest here, and the section contains a well-designed new monk archetype called "Nornkith." There are also several interesting new spells and items.

* "Devotee of the Hooded": Followers of Ng the Hooded may be interested in a new cavalier archetype called "Hooded Knight" (frankly, it's not that good), but a new cavalier order called "Order of the Blossom" is an attractive, interesting option.

* "Child of the Water Lord": Followers of a serpentine beast named Ragadahn could choose a new barbarian archeype called "Deepwater Rager", which is useful on land and water and comes with an awesome ability called "Spiraling Charge". There's also an okay new skald archetype called "Serpent Herald" and some new rage powers and bardic masterpieces.

* "Timekeeper of the Many": Last up is a wizard archetype called "Chronomancer". I was really excited to read this and it does turn out to be kinda good, but it needs some more gonzo (yet somehow not unbalancing) stuff to really be memorable. The section has some new time-themed spells, of which, temporal divergence could be fun.

And that's the book. Like I said, a real mix of stuff. It'd be worth a buy if you plan on having a fey-themed character or you're a GM planning on running a campaign that involves the fey. Otherwise, it's not a must-have.

No First World problems here.

5/5 —

I think this is the most would-play archetypes (plus mysteries, bloodlines, etc.) I've seen in a player's companion. That's combined with good traits and interesting story feats! A few racial options are a bit much (elf getting constant detect magic or bonus AC versus chaotic creatures is a nuisance for the GM, and gathlain kineticists do half again as much damage as other kineticists), but other than that, things are very nice.

Traits! Two particularly notable ones, but all good. Intelligence has been stealing charisma's thunder thanks to traits, so grab one of these to make your sorcerer as good at identifying spells as a wizard- or go for something fun, like crafting. Retry a hex against somebody once per day? Don't mind if I do.

Archetypes! There's an alchemist that gets a pool of points to spend on random effects (or rerolls for bad results). Very nice for anybody who wants a character with some gambling built in. Two new oracle curses, a new mystery, and an archetype! The mystery is great, with very cool and useful abilities that don't rely on charisma-to-everything. Swift action invisibility! Rod of Wonder effects! Move-action teleportation! Speaking of invisibility, there's a nifty bard archetype that trades out the usual inspire courage for handing out some fey abilities. The rogue will love having swift-action invisibility handed out! It's a versatile list. Ankou's Shadow is the first archetype to really make me want to play a slayer. At-will modified Mirror Image using your shadow, and as you level up, your shadow-selves become more and more independent. Oh, and the swift-action See Invisibility is really nice to have available too. Rogue with built-in darkvision and short-range teleportation is nice. Seducer is a charisma-based witch (still prepared casting) with hexes that get bonuses against anybody attracted. Twinned Summoner is a really classy option to have your eidolon fake being you. Nice to have an unkillable body-double! There's a very serious chunk of material dedicated to making this work even better with an unchained summoner. Psychics get a sorrow discipline, complete with their own private demiplane of solitude. Chronomancer is a wizard that can get back some spell slots when enemies made that save to negate or had good spell resistance, along with options for save rerolls and eventually more flexibility on contingencies.

Shapechanger bloodline for sorcerer gets its own section. It starts off with the underwhelming arcana of +1 CL to personal transmutations, and moves on to what seems like a mildly spiced-up version of the boring and generally useless first level "grow claws" power. Third level, though, is where it really hits. Once per day, boost a minute-per-level personal polymorph to ten minutes per level. That pushes it up into useful for social encounters, or a couple of combat encounters! Then at ninth, it becomes an HOUR per level. Since that stacks with extend spell, by the time you get Form of Dragon I at 12th, you can live your life as a dragon. The other abilities are really cool, too- transmuting yourself into an instantaneous AoE of claws and teeth, modifying your polymorphs with different movement forms, and a solid capstone in the vein of aberration bloodline. New favorite bloodline.

Spells! I don't care if it's not terribly effective- turning somebody's skeleton into jagged cold iron is awesome. Always love getting more fungal spells. The chronomancy spells are the star of the show, though, providing balanced time magic spells for a range of levels.

Feats! Hate teamwork feats? Have the opposite! 0-level Selective Spell metamagic… that only excludes you. Increase your channel's healing… when you exclude everybody else. Spend rage for extra attacks… so long as allies keep their distance. They're pretty cool, actually.

TLDR: You can be a dragon 24/7 now.

A Legacy Worth Remembering

5/5 —

After the combination train wreck/dumpster fire that was Legacy of Dragons, I was completely prepared to write this book off as a part 2 to the Legacy of Trash. Consider my complete surprise, then, when I found that this book was not only good, it was great. Just about everything in here oozes with Fey style, and mechanically just about everything holds their own. The only notable exceptions are the Seducer Witch, which unfortunately falls into the realm of "surprise villain archetype" due to how its class features work based on seduction, and the First World Innovator Alchemist, which is one archetype that I'm still debating over. The rest of the book is rock solid though.

Fun of The First World

4/5 —

This is a good solid book, not as good as legacy of dragons, but still worth while.

An excellent player companion

4/5 —

Noteworthy entries:

Some great alternate racial traits for core races, as well as some flavorful love for Gathlains that really play up their natural symbiosis.

A Cha focused witch that can hand out some hefty party bonuses if your party is willing to get frisky.

A flavorful slayer archetype, and a Shadowdancer-lite rogue archetype

some cool teamwork feats (Conduit Casting is begging for a blaster Sorc/Magus wombo combo)

some neat oracle options in the hermit archetype and reclusive curse, and new Loner feats give some use to team oriented abilities if the party isn't interested (Skalds in a party that doesn't want strength can get a larger bonus, for example)

a cool and flavorful monk archetype that tragically lacks an unchained version

Stealth horseshoes with 1/day invisibility. Your charge target literally won't know what hit it.

A time manipulation focused wizard and a host of potent temporal spells

All in all, quality work. Nothing's particularly stronger than existing content, but that's alright because it's interesting and makes you want to play it, and you won't feel weaker for it.

Some of the content is pretty bad though, and not including an unchained version of a monk archetype is pretty unforgivable, so it loses a star on that, but still, would recommend

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Who developed this one?
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

What can you tell us about the three "Threefold" spells?

I think I may be looking forward to getting this PDF than the one for the Adventurer's Guide.
Silver Crusade

Since it's the First World I'ma gonna say Sutter.

What can you say about the chronomancer?
David knott 242 wrote:

What can you tell us about the three "Threefold" spells?

I think I may be looking forward to getting this PDF than the one for the Adventurer's Guide.

Same, it was easy to skip the last two player companions but this one I'm buying ASAP.

I just want to mention what a (pleasant) surprise it is to see rules support for Bleachling Gnomes.

Must...have...archetype...information...please *puppy dog eyes*
The Exchange

I am going to have to look at my pdf now!
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Gold Sovereign wrote:

Is there a feat fey version of the Dragon Heritage feat? That's all I really want to know. =)

Until we have more and better fey playable races, a "fey heritage feat" would be really useful.

(still praying to see a medium fairy-like playable fey race)

Nope. No fey version of Draconic Heritage. Sorry. :(

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:
So, are there any sorcerer bloodlines, oracle curses/mysteries, kineticist wild talents, witch hexes, psychic disciplines, phantom emotion foci, rogue talents, barbarian rage powers, bloodrager bloodlines, alchemist discoveries, cleric/druid domains/subdomains, warpriest blessings, or ranger combat styles?

Spoiler:
Yes, Yes/Yes, No, Yes, Yes, No, No, Yes, Yes, Yes, No/No, No, and No. :)
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:
What are the race options(alternate racial traits, feats, race traits, etc.) in the book?

While there isn't an equivalent of the Dragon Heritage Feat, there are a number of Fey heritage alternate racial traits:

Racial Traits:
Dwarf: Wanderer replaces Hardy
Elf: Fey-sighted replaces Elven Magic
Gnome: Fey-tongued alters Gnome Magic
Half-Elf: Disregarded replaces Keen Senses
Half-Orc: Shamanic Enhancement replaces weapon familiarity and intimidating
Halfling: Fey-quickened replaces fearless and keen senses
Human: Heart of the Fey replaces Skilled
Duskblade wrote:
Must...have...archetype...information...please *puppy dog eyes*

*sigh*

OK, if you insist...
2 people marked this as a favorite.

NO! He is not a Pugwampi and we have a monopoly on puppy eye forlorn looks!

*pulls out a formal looking piece of paper and waves it around*

See? Proof!
3 people marked this as a favorite.

OK, my nasty subconscious seems to be surfacing so this will be the last one tonight:

Archetypes:
Ankou’s shadow Slayer Archetype: Winged Fey assassins

Chronomancer Wizard Archetype: Wizards able to shift themselves between their past, present, and future selves

Deepwater rager Barbarian Archetype: Skilled at fighting in water

Fey prankster Bard Archetype: Learn tricks to cause opponents mishaps and disasters.

Feykiller Hunter Archetype: Hunters focused on killing fey in fey-plagued regions.

First World innovator Alchemist Archetype: Specializing in using First World substances. Rather volatile substances.

First World minstrel Bard Archetype: Stolen by the Fey then returned with magical musical knowledge.

Grasping vine Shaman Archetype: Has a plant-like creature as a spirit animal and are dedicated to the Green Mother.

Hermit Oracle Archetype: Recluse whose power comes from an isolated region.

Hooded knight Cavalier Archetype: Hooded protectors of travellers in the Material World and the First World.

Nornkith Monk Archetype: Emulate the threefold path of fate and hope to rise up and become norns themselves.

Seducer Witch Archetype: Dedicated to the Green Mother, they uses Charisma and magical wiles to achieve their goals.

Serpent herald Skald Archetype: Dedicated to Ragadahn, They have serpent powers and the ability to become serpents themselves.

Shadow scion Rogue Archetype: Count Ranalc worshipers who draw power from the shadows themselves.

Twinned summoner Summoner Archetype: As like Imbrex, the summoners Eidolon is identical to the summoner in appearance.

What is the sorcerer and bloodrager bloodline like?

What is the new oracle mystery and curses like?

What do the gathlain's feats and alternate racial traits do?
Luthorne wrote:

I am not Skeld, but I have gotten my copy. Sadly, I'm off to a Pathfinder Society session this evening, so I really haven't gotten to look too much at this, but I was able to make a list to whet a few appetites...it certainly looked intriguing, but I couldn't do much more than scan it.

** spoiler omitted **...

Oh, so many fun things in this one.

May we please get some information on the 'Embrace the Dark Fey' feat? And the 'Seducer' archetype and hex for the witch?
4 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, back, had fun, and before I go to bed I'll tackle a few.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

For anyone with a pdf and time I'd be interested in hearing about:

1. The Sorrow Psychic discipline
2. Centered Spell metamagic
3. The Threefold spells
4. The Temporal spells

Psychic Discipline:
So, basically, you get your powers from isolation, despair, and generally being unhappy. You use Charisma for your phrenic pool, get the ability to add up to your level Charisma modifier against mind-affecting effects, and can weaponize your misery as an immediate action when an enemy is making certain kinds of rolls to penalize said roll (no save) a decent number of times per day. At higher levels you can spend a use of it as a standard action to give everyone nearby that penalty for a few rounds, but they do get a save for that one. And then finally you can create your fortress of despair ala a permanent albeit gloomy demiplane.

Centered Spell:
Basically you can drop an area effect instantaneous spell with you as the center and exclude yourself (and your familiar if in your square and smaller than you) from the effect; does not increase spell level.

Threefold Spells:
Threefold face gives you two extra faces, each one symbolizing some emotion or aspect of your personality. You gain all-around vision, can't be flanked, and various effects that would target your face (such as being blinded or deafened) only affect a single face, though you lose all-around vision if a face is blinded. It lasts for exactly nine minutes.

Threefold form splits you up into three of you, it basically acts like a combination of bilocation and threefold aspect, each at a different age.

Threefold sight lets you roll three d20s when performing certain kinds of rolls and pick the middle result (ie, excluding the highest and the lowest results; what happens if you get identical rolls is also covered.

Temporal Spells:
Temporal divergence is pretty complicated but basically it lets you cast two different spells, treating each as if you had cast it and not the other one, see all the repercussions (did it beat spell resistance, did the monster make its save, blah blah blah) and then choose which one of the spells you actually cast. Casting it more than once in 24 hours has a risk of bad things happening to you.

Temporal regression lets you create something like a very short-lived save point, you don't exactly time travel but you to return yourself to the exact state and location you were in when you cast it, minus expended spells and such. Doing so gives you negative levels.

Archmage Variel wrote:
What can you say about the chronomancer?

Chronomancer:
You trade out your arcane bond and bonus feats from 10th, 15th, and 20th for a reservoir of temporal energy they can spend for various effects; boosting initiative, saving throws,

avoiding losing spells that had no effect, attaching extra spells to contingency, and briefly summoning a parallel universe version of yourself to fight on after you die.

Dragon78 wrote:

What is the sorcerer and bloodrager bloodline like?

What is the new oracle mystery and curses like?

What do the gathlain's feats and alternate racial traits do?

Bloodlines:
So, bloodrager gets some stuff related to Aspect of the Beast, swift action self-only transmutation when entering bloodrage, DR silver, free action dispel on yourself when leaving bloodrage, and finish off with greater polymorph at-will and immunity to transmutation effects you're not willing to accept for a capstone.

Sorcerer can do more damage with unarmed strikes or claws, extend the duration of polymorph spells affecting yourself, assault people with sudden fleshy tentacle explosion, getting rider effects on polymorph spells affecting yourself and immunity to non-willing polymorph effects, and capstone is immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, blindsight, DR, and if you get physically blinded or deafened you just grow some new sensory organs.

Oracle Mystery and Oracle Curses:
So, the whimsy mystery gains power from fey tricksters. You can pick up stuff like illusions, shapeshifting, rods of wonder effects, using Perform (comedy) to bluff and intimidate, and other such things.

The pranked curse means fey are always playing pranks on you, making inappropriate sounds and smells, imitating your voice to f#*& with people, etc. You also take a penalty to initiative checks and have trouble recovering what you want to from your gear. You get some bonus spells. Possessed oracles can choose to take this instead of cursed.

The reclusive curse means you have trouble trusting anyone, and allies who hit you with touch spells have to make a successful touch attack and you have to attempt to save against all spells that you don't cast. You get bonuses when casting spells that affect only yourself, become immune to charm spells, and eventually gain spell resistance.

Gathlains:
...okay, that's a lot, so...in brief...

Body thorns means you have masterwork armor spikes if not wearing armor or bulky clothing; if sundered they grow back. Replaces spell-like ability.

Bower born means that you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Handle Animal thanks to pheromones. Replaces natural armor.

Photosynthetic vision gives you a +2 bonus to Perception. Replaces low-light vision.

Sticky tendrils gives you nonmagical spider climb and feather fall and some limited gliding. Replaces fly speed.

Symbiotic imbalance increases fly speed at the cost of land speed.

Biological Lattice lets you store something in your vines. While in your vines you can't fly. You can get it back as a swift action, or drop it as a free action.

Hydroponic Adaptation lets you swap out your fly speed for a swim speed 1/day for an hour or until you end it early.

Step of the Flighty Fey gives creatures under the effect of your feather step spell-like ability small amounts of DR cold iron that scales a bit.

Strange Yield lets you take a fruit from yourself that has the effect of a random 1st-level potion or oil, which loses its power after 24 hours.

Eric Hinkle wrote:
May we please get some information on the 'Embrace the Dark Fey' feat? And the 'Seducer' archetype and hex for the witch?

Embrace the Dark Fey:
You are descended from an evil fey. You get a bonus on using Intimidate and confirming critical hits. If you demoralize an appropriate number of creatures, you can deal bleed damage to creatures you have demoralized.

Seducer:
The seducer witch has to choose from a small pool of patrons, uses Charisma instead of Intelligence for witch class features, and generally gains bonuses against people who find them sexy which increase when they've slept with said people within the past day. Loses hexes at 1st, 6th, and 8th level.

The seduction hex lets you fascinate a target for a round by using 'enthralling movements', which I presume means booty-shaking, which you can extend up to your level rounds by continuing to shake it. Will save negates, but the DC goes up if they think you're sexy. At higher levels it lasts a bit longer.

What does the Hooded Knight get?
Sczarni
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

This book is very cool. My favorite are the shadow slayer archetype (forgot the exact name) and the twin summoner archetype.

Yey monk stuff!

Does the archie work with Unchained Monk?

Any other monk options?
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Axial wrote:
What does the Hooded Knight get?

Hooded Knight:
Swap out Climb and Swim for Knowledge (geography) and Survival. Their mount gets the feybound template except that it can't use change shape while you're riding it. Trades out tactician for some bonuses while on a road, any mount you're riding gets an increase to speed and you can spend some time with your allies' mounts to grant them the same speed boost for awhile, and you can hustle safely for awhile. Trades out greater tactician for dimension door except that if riding their mount it doesn't count against the number of creatures that you can take with you, and if the end point isn't a road you get shunted to the nearest place that is a road as if you had tried to arrive in a place already occupied by a solid body; starts off 1/day but get additional uses as you level up. And trades out master tactician for the above ability except with greater teleport and your allies' mounts also don't count against the number of teleported creatures.
Secret Wizard wrote:

Yey monk stuff!

Does the archie work with Unchained Monk?

Any other monk options?

Unfortunately it seems to only work with the base monk. And I believe I listed everything else already...nothing else for monk.

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Wow, this is amazing.

Spoiler:
Sorcerers get what is now my favorite bloodline, allowing them to really boost their shapeshifting. Absolutely love it- this'll get me to play a sorc again after being drawn away by psychic.

Barbarians get some mighty fine caster hate with a grapple that prevents speaking.

Summoners get a really neat twin archetype, which includes its own eidolon subtype. (For those of you still using the old Summoner, it works with that.)

Two new oracle curses, both of which are cool, a new mystery, and a new archetype. The mystery is really cool, without relying on charisma substitution like a lot of mysteries.

Psychic gets a really flavorful discipline.

Slayer gets an awesome archetype centered around Mirror Image and making the images do other things.

Bard gets an archetype that can grant fey abilities with their bard song, like swift action invisibility. Rogues will want to be friends.

Skald gets an archetype with limited wildshape.

Alchemist gets a cool random results archetype that trades some of your bombs rather than all of them.

Rogue gets an archetype with darkvision and standard action teleportation from a movement pool. No shadow-to-shadow requirements.

All around really good feats, story feats, and traits. (Teamwork feats were the only area that didn't have something that stood out.)

Four time-based spells! No longer stuck with just Timestop and the Haste/Slow family. They seem pretty balanced, too.

Annoyances

Spoiler:
The elven alternate racial traits would be a nuisance to GM for. Constant detect magic and needing to decide whether or not each combat creature is chaotic. At least they don't stack.
Sczarni
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So I was thinking of an idea using this book. It would be funny to get slayer (using the archetype from this book) to level 5 then the rest using the twin eidolon and have 4 of you running around.

But to make this work, is there a way to increase the eidolon level so it doesn't lag behind? Like boon companion?

Just waiting to see what the Chronomancer is all about...

I'm betting money its another 'Pact Wizard-esque' level of broken-ness archtype for the wizard..... let me guess it stacks with Exploiter?!?
Silver Crusade

Luthorne covered it above.

Yes I saw the outline.... I'm curious (in a morbid kinda way) to see it in its full completely unecessary OP glory!!

If you could be so kind Luthorne ;))
doc roc wrote:

Yes I saw the outline.... I'm curious (in a morbid kinda way) to see it in its full completely unecessary OP glory!!

If you could be so kind Luthorne ;))

That'd be too much info. Yes, it's OP (not TOO bad, though- mostly padding out spells per day for save-or-suck casters). No, it doesn't stack with Exploiter.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:

Okay, back, had fun, and before I go to bed I'll tackle a few.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

For anyone with a pdf and time I'd be interested in hearing about:

1. The Sorrow Psychic discipline
2. Centered Spell metamagic
3. The Threefold spells
4. The Temporal spells

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

[spoiler=Temporal...

...wow. That sounds amazing!

QuidEst wrote:


That'd be too much info. Yes, it's OP (not TOO bad, though- mostly padding out spells per day for save-or-suck casters). No, it doesn't stack with Exploiter.

Cheers!.... OP as I suspected

The problem is that when you have a base class already as powerful as the wizard there should never be a hint of OP associated.

Whereas having an OP Brawler, Rogue... etc archetype is highly unlikely to cause probs..... a lesson Paizo seem oblivious of it seems :((
Silver Crusade
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I like the strong archetypes for 9th level casters, since aside from their spells they don't have a lot to play around with in terms of class abilities. I like strong archetypes in general. I rather have a strong archetype than a boring one, if a GM thinks it's too strong then they can dissuade their player from taking it.

Let's give ALL the classes strong archetypes!
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Thanks to Luthorne for what he shared. I'm stuck between delighted and laughing over the description of the Seducer witch and the Seduction hex. Between that and the earlier statement that they get their powers from the Green Mother, I envisage the Seducer as being Golarion's Pamela 'Poison Ivy' Isley.

That story feat is amazing too.

I'm definitely getting this book.
Silver Crusade
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I'm really excited about the Seducer and the Ragadahn stuff ^w^
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doc roc wrote:
QuidEst wrote:


That'd be too much info. Yes, it's OP (not TOO bad, though- mostly padding out spells per day for save-or-suck casters). No, it doesn't stack with Exploiter.

Cheers!.... OP as I suspected

The problem is that when you have a base class already as powerful as the wizard there should never be a hint of OP associated.

Whereas having an OP Brawler, Rogue... etc archetype is highly unlikely to cause probs..... a lesson Paizo seem oblivious of it seems :((

Don't worry too much about this one. "OP" was too strong of a word. Better than base wizard, but in reasonable ways like letting you focus on single target save-or-suck spells without minmaxing the DC. If you want awesome martial stuff, Slayer gets an archetype of comparable upgradeitude!

Silver Crusade
QuidEst wrote:
doc roc wrote:
QuidEst wrote:


That'd be too much info. Yes, it's OP (not TOO bad, though- mostly padding out spells per day for save-or-suck casters). No, it doesn't stack with Exploiter.

Cheers!.... OP as I suspected

The problem is that when you have a base class already as powerful as the wizard there should never be a hint of OP associated.

Whereas having an OP Brawler, Rogue... etc archetype is highly unlikely to cause probs..... a lesson Paizo seem oblivious of it seems :((

Don't worry too much about this one. "OP" was too strong of a word. Better than base wizard, but in reasonable ways like letting you focus on single target save-or-suck spells without minmaxing the DC. If you want awesome martial stuff, Slayer gets an archetype of comparable upgradeitude!

Speaking of the Slayer archetype, does it stack with the Stygian Slayer?

Rysky wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
doc roc wrote:
QuidEst wrote:


That'd be too much info. Yes, it's OP (not TOO bad, though- mostly padding out spells per day for save-or-suck casters). No, it doesn't stack with Exploiter.

Cheers!.... OP as I suspected

The problem is that when you have a base class already as powerful as the wizard there should never be a hint of OP associated.

Whereas having an OP Brawler, Rogue... etc archetype is highly unlikely to cause probs..... a lesson Paizo seem oblivious of it seems :((

Don't worry too much about this one. "OP" was too strong of a word. Better than base wizard, but in reasonable ways like letting you focus on single target save-or-suck spells without minmaxing the DC. If you want awesome martial stuff, Slayer gets an archetype of comparable upgradeitude!
Speaking of the Slayer archetype, does it stack with the Stygian Slayer?

Conflict with stalker traded out by both, sorry.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Thanks to Luthorne for what he shared. I'm stuck between delighted and laughing over the description of the Seducer witch and the Seduction hex. Between that and the earlier statement that they get their powers from the Green Mother, I envisage the Seducer as being Golarion's Pamela 'Poison Ivy' Isley.

As the one who got to write the seducer archetype, that's actually not too far off from what I was picturing. ;-)

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

The Seducer Witch archetype definitely sounds like it works better as an antagonist than as a PC, it seems. It is very difficult, after all, for a PC to arrange to seduce and sleep with an enemy in advance of combat. The GM has a much easier time doing that with horny and insufficiently paranoid PCs.
Silver Crusade
QuidEst wrote:
Rysky wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
doc roc wrote:
QuidEst wrote:


That'd be too much info. Yes, it's OP (not TOO bad, though- mostly padding out spells per day for save-or-suck casters). No, it doesn't stack with Exploiter.

Cheers!.... OP as I suspected

The problem is that when you have a base class already as powerful as the wizard there should never be a hint of OP associated.

Whereas having an OP Brawler, Rogue... etc archetype is highly unlikely to cause probs..... a lesson Paizo seem oblivious of it seems :((

Don't worry too much about this one. "OP" was too strong of a word. Better than base wizard, but in reasonable ways like letting you focus on single target save-or-suck spells without minmaxing the DC. If you want awesome martial stuff, Slayer gets an archetype of comparable upgradeitude!
Speaking of the Slayer archetype, does it stack with the Stygian Slayer?
Conflict with stalker traded out by both, sorry.

Fooie, I was wanting to get all magical sneaky-sneak up in here.

What do the spells Ally/Army Across Time do?

Ribbon of the Three item?

Is the Hood of Privacy a permanent Mind Blank or something more complicated?
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Thanks everyone for answering my questions. The funny thing is I got the PDF right after I posted the last group of questions;)
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

What do the spells Ally/Army Across Time do?

Ribbon of the Three item?

Is the Hood of Privacy a permanent Mind Blank or something more complicated?

Ally/Army Across Time:
Basically lets you briefly summon versions of yourself from an alternate timeline, though its abilities are basically limited to using aid another, threatening, and having any teamwork feats you might have. Ally across time only lets you have one at a time, and can only summon one duplicate total at first, though you get more as your caster level increases; army across time lets you summon more duplicates, and at higher levels you can have more than one out at a time.

Ribbon of the Three:
Constant threefold face effect.

Hood of Privacy:
Bit more complicated. Basically, completely covers your face without interfering with your senses, gives a bonus against mind-affecting effects, you automatically know when someone is trying to get information about you from a divination effect, and you can temporarily lower the bonus to either provide false information or no information to the person diviner, though they can make a Will save to know the information was false/concealed (but not what it actually was).

What does the slayer archetype get / trade out?

was honestly half hoping to see alternate racial mods for gnomes here, something that allowed gnomes to stack STR maybe.
SillyString wrote:
What does the slayer archetype get / trade out?

Ankou's Shadow:
Alright, this one is a bit complicated,

but basically they trade out studied target for shadow double.
At first level at-will you can create a single mirror image
that lasts indefinitely or until you dismiss it, doesn't stack with other mirror image like things. Later on you get a second one and can send them out to provide flanking and aid another, and at higher levels you get a third and can split up your actions between them, attacking with them as if it were you, then eventually get a fourth one and you can use them like unseen servants except with a higher Strength score. Then they trade out stalker for the ability to use see invisibility in 1-minute increments as a swift action. Quarry and improved quarry are altered so that they only work if you have a shadow double present, but they don't need to be a studied target, which is good since they don't have it.
And for a capstone you can release your shadow doubles to attack like independent quasi-real entities a fair number of times per day.

what organisation is that tied to? sounds pretty cool
dharkus wrote:
what organisation is that tied to? sounds pretty cool

It's not explicitly tied to an organization; they emulate ankou, though it is suggested as being appropriate for those who follow Count Ranalc.

Silver Crusade
Luthorne wrote:
dharkus wrote:
what organisation is that tied to? sounds pretty cool
It's not explicitly tied to an organization; they emulate ankou, though it is suggested as being appropriate for those who follow Count Ranalc.

Methinks Dharkus mixed up threads :3

QuidEst wrote:


Don't worry too much about this one. "OP" was too strong of a word. Better than base wizard, but in reasonable ways like letting you focus on single target save-or-suck spells without minmaxing the DC. If you want awesome martial stuff, Slayer gets an archetype of comparable upgradeitude!

And there in lies the problem... the wizard is already the strongest class with the strongest spell list, ergo any archetype that upgrades the power level is by definition unbalancing and OP.

SOS spells are among the best spells in the game.... so these from a power and balance persepctive are the worst to focus on improving via an archetype.... unless there is SUITABLY COUNTERBALANCING force in the opposite direction.
Silver Crusade

... so Wizards aren't allowed to have nice things?

NO - Wizards are never allowed good things as they're too OP - they should give those spells to rogues to balance things out a bit! [/sarcasm]
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