Oooooh, so they have fallen and the archetype says that? That's awesome then!
(Understand my interpretation is based off other peoples messages, I have still yet to see the book, though this info makes me more excited to do so!)
It is quite intriguing, but I hesitate to divulge it all until available in print.
That's ok, I don't even need to know any ability details, but before I get too excited I would like to know if it is still going to be locked into lawful good & small deity selection with a stick up the butt code of conduct, if at all possible :)
Surprised by the shifter becoming a class when we have mutation fighters, shapeshifter rangers, beastkin berserker barbarians, flesheater barbarians, mooncursed barbarians, barbarian beast totems, agathiel vigilantes, wildsoul vigilantes, beastmorph alchemists, Prowler Bloodragers, Shapeshifter bloodline bloodragers/magus, Shapeshifter bloodline Sorcerers, hunters, druids, all the beast races, skinwalker race (+subraces) and a handful of other archetypes that focus on transmutation and shapeshifting are able to fit just about any playstyle or fantasy.
That being said, it makes me very interested to see how they're going to make the class feel different to the existing options, and to be honest if it's a full-bab class as opposed to yet another 3/4 bab then I'm on board!
The Shifter aside, I'm mostly looking forward to the new martially-inclined archetypes and potential feats that this book will bring to the table, and *fingers crossed* there wont be too many reprints.
What things are you guys looking forward to about the book?
PS: Is it November yet? :)
This is one of the more anticipated books on my list. How about the rest of you guys?
Honestly, prior to seeing the description I was super-psyched about this one. After; I'm far less so. That's not to say that I'm assuming the things mentioned in the description will be boring/low quality, simply that they aren't the kind of things that I get excited about from new material.
But who knows, there might be planetouched stuff and/or unusual things in there too (Barbarian/bloodrager love *fingers crossed*). From what we know at the moment though, its not one i'll be picking up on release... but if I hear from others that it has some interesting things, i'll consider it for my "maybe" list.
Or to put it in the words of Gorbacz:
Product description is cool and all, but anyone know if there will be any new options for sylph, ifrit, undine, oread or better yet the Suli or the bloodrager class? (Ideally, top of my wish-list is a jann bloodline/archetype for the bloodrager) That's what I'd be interested in seeing from something elemental themed :)
I think that's the most logical conclusion, yes.In that, although it isnt explicitly stated -and thanks to that its a little fuzzy on whether entering the last 5ft section would provoke twice-, you could reasonably say due to the FAQ that each 5ft of movement can create only one opportunity. (The first 5ft creates an opportunity by moving in & the second 5ft by moving out - you dont get a third AoO due to that 5ft section of movement's opportunity having already provoked) That fits with both the FAQ and the RAW on the subject, as well as solving the simultaneous opportunity issue/question I had. (Makes sense that the deity of longspears grants some benefit to reach users from his boon too.)
Thanks everyone for the input, rules quotes and the FAQ links :)
Yeah I'm not seeing that FAQ being too similar/comparable to the situation as in that their AoO from moving into another creatures square is essentially just the standard AoO for moving out of the adjacent space already (and essentially written prior to entering AoOs becoming possible, so they used entering/exiting somewhat synonymously), and not something that's called out as additional... But it sure points towards the answer to question 3 being no if only due to the FAQ's approach to simultaneous opportunities. Limiting it in total to 2 AoOs if they charge to an adjacent square.
Nope, You're right. The limit is per Movement, but rather moving out of a threatened square. You would get 2 AoOs.
Ah good, i'm not going completely mad then.
Moving on, question 3 was just whether or not you could AoO for both him moving out of the 10ft sq and moving into a 5ft sq one after the other (one with the spear, then one with unarmed) due to the boon. (Taking the total to 3) From RAW I could see it being a little grey due to potentially happening simultaneously(?).
I assume you fall on the side of the two opportunities becoming one opportunity due to them happening simultaneously, therefore only getting the one attack for that section of 5ft movement from the charge?
Errr... why?Surely moving out of a threatened square is one opportunity, which would be limited to one by "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent." and moving into a square (which doesnt normally provoke but now does thanks to the feat/boon) would be another opportunity? (making it at least 2?)
It was my understanding that moving out of a threatened square was an opportunity, not the whole movement?
This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
having to call out moving out of squares to say that in that specific instance of multiple opportunities an AoO from moving out of squares can only done once for that movement. There's nothing I can find to say thats the case for other instances of multiple opportunities... such as the bonus AoO from the boon.
Enemy charges through a space within 10ft:
GM: The enemy has entered a square within 10ft, you can make an AoO due to your boon. (Opportunity to make an AoO 1)
Enemy's charge continues to within 5ft:
GM: He has left a square threatened by you, you may make a normal AoO. (Opportunity to make an AoO 2)
As far as I can see it doesnt say you get only one opportunity per movement, it only says:
(Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative, it's just not something i've come across much and I'd like to see where you're getting your understanding, because - based only on what i've found so far - it seems like a bit of a leap to assume that the rule that specifically calls out opportunities created by moving out of squares actually applies to all possible opportunities related to movement...)
As follow-up questions, if I have the celestial obedience feat & worship Arqueros, gaining the following:
"In addition, you may attempt an attack of opportunity whenever a charging opponent enters a space you threaten"
1) If that enemy were to charge to me, would I get a spear AoO when he got to within 10ft, then another spear attack when moved out of that square?
Basically, is the AoO granted by the boon from entering a square usable alongside the AoO provoked by moving out of a square?
2) Would I get an additional unarmed AoO from the boon when he entered the square adjacent to me as well?
You can only take a single AoO from an enemy movement, even if the movement passes through multiple threatened squares. However, you can make an AoO with any weapon which you threaten with. If you took an AoO with your spear at 10', and then the enemy took a non-move action that provoked at 5', you could take an AoO with your unarmed strike.
Wow I'd completely overlooked that. It hasn't come up much but I know a couple of GMs that I should point that out to.
Lets say I'm a brawler and I have an elven branched spear (Brace & Reach) and combat reflexes.
An enemy moves through a square 10ft away from me, so he provokes an AoO from my spear. As he continues moving, he also passes through a square adjacent to me. Can I make an AoO unarmed as well? (someone said you're only able to make AoOs with the weapon you made the first AoO a round with, but I'm not sure if that was a home rule, a mistake or something I didn't know)
x = me
Well, that's kind of what I feared... oh well, in a home game the feat might be useful, otherwise I see no use for it. No pirates shall ever exist in pathfinder for it. That is my opinion at least. Thanks for clarifying the bad news.
Don't be so glum, it's still one the few ways for you to dump str and get dex to damage!
"When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage"
^ All one sentence, also part of the designated "benefit" section of the feat, 99% sure it's all the benefit.
Even if it was broken into two sentences it would still lean towards all of it being nulled by the "You do not gain this benefit while fighting... etc etc" because this part is in the next paragraph after what is essentially the original "benefit" paragraph of the feat. If it had been errata'd to have the "treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon" as a sentence, then they started a new paragraph for "dex to damage" and followed it up immediately (as part of the same 2nd paragraph) with the "no benefit when using off-hand" thing then it could maybe be interpreted as what you're wanting - But that would call into question why the entire text section was under the subheading of "Benefit" to begin with.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed...
As far as I can see its a simple layout thats designed to avoid any confusion, which might explain why you cant find anyone else answering (or asking) the question, but that's just my take on it. If you can convince a GM to discern a different understanding then all power to you! :)
I believe the "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied." text sums it up pretty well, if you have your off-hand occupied, its not treated as a piercing weapon, so no panache for you...
But out of curiosity, did you just overlook that text or was there something to make you think otherwise? (I'm not sure if that text was part of the original printing or if it was errata)
I don't have a build but:
Vigilantes = Superheroes (pretty american)
Maybe find a way to get color spray or some kind of firework-esque spell aswell?
Or just be some kind of (preferably shirtless) class with an eagle companion / familiar.
There are domains and a few class features that include the word "freedom" prehaps dip into every class to collect as many freedom themed things as possible?
Oh, and 1 level has to be in gunslinger, because 'murica.
We did it! (about two weeks ago @ level 15)
Long story short*, my character played bait trying to intimidate him and got smacked around a little while the rogue rallied the cities wizards to topple a building on to him - the other barbarian was having some trouble navigating the terrain after some wonderful climb checks. After the building fell the dragon then got pissed and nuked the wizards, rogue's behind was lightly singed. Using the newly flattened area we fought the giant dragon, who kept burrowing underground and shooting divine lightning breath at us. Other barbarian struggled a bit but did some huge amounts of damage before being zapped. (the gm asked how much health they had and definitely fudged it so they wouldnt be 1-hit so soon into the fight.) Some time later my barbarian ended up getting impaled on the trident after he got stunned by some kind of aura that the dragon's blood created. Thankfully before the dragon could slam my barbarian into the ground and finish me off the rogue stabbed him up the ...er... and finished him off very ingloriously. Meaning we all technically survived!?
*There were also a few rounds where nothing much happened / we got hit by a few movement restricting spells, attempted mind control, fear effects or just whacked eachother, but they weren't as interesting.
Anyway, the rogue's deeds were cemented into history and they ascended to godhood at the moment of slaying the dragon, with the two barbarians growing to enormous size and becoming immortal heralds of the new rogue-god, one donning gleaming armor of the dead dragon-god and becoming an invincible warrior - and my barbarian taking up the trident and possibly gaining control of some kind of dragon-demon hybrid horde trapped under the earth. (Which the hydra dragon god was trying to unleash / use to control the world).
So, overall, rogue became a god of anything he chose to be, the other barbarian got to become a battle incarnate avatar and my barbarian got a trident and an evil invincible army. The other guy with the derp character didn't show up since I first posted, so we're told his character oversaw the evacuation of the city and became a lord or something for his troubles and efforts rebuilding the city. So ended the BBEG and the campaign.
Advice noted, thanks! I'll try to pick up something that'll help with fear or illusions!
In regard to android, I noticed that online but the GM decided it was too exotic, which I agree with because I like my rpgs mostly sci-fi free anyway, otherwise it could have been a nice option, I could downgrade my elf to a half-elf if that's any help, but I dont think that'd open up many more options(?).
* possibly leading to the ugliest adventuring parties known to man...
Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Illusions are pretty common and other minutae like glitterdust or ear piercing scream with maybe a boss encounter having a dominate or something along those lines. You have any point of reference on what the campaign will be?
Well we've started (as most campaigns seem to) in a tavern, talking about bandits or goblins but in previous campaigns such things have had little bearing on the weirdness of the quests that followed, the only thing that worries me is he's VERY fond of throwing casters at us (usually with a group of a few 1-hittable minions), and that usually means saving throws every round.
Indeed, we've had the first session and the elf isn't something that will be changing now though. Oh I forgot to mention we aren't gaining starting traits.
I figure if there's other feats / items that I can pick up to sneakily bypass the bad will entirely then that'll probably be the best way to deal with it at this point, but i'm not too familiar with such things.
@tarik & avr
Let's say my slayer's bonus to will saves was -3 at level 1 due to very poorly rolled stats* (and they wont be getting much better due to low class save progression). What ways would there be to cope with / bypass this weakness?
For example, I have already chosen to make the character an elf in order to become immune to magical sleep effects, covering that corner of will-based saves.
Are there simple ways to become immune to other will-based effects?
Also curious to see what people's opinions are of how much the character's low will is likely to hurt him throughout his (possibly short) adventuring career.
* We used 3d6 (no rerolls or dropping): My lowest stats were two 5s and an 9, so I dumped charisma and wisdom and put the 9 in intelligence (elf boosted to 11) because I really didn't want my slayer to be thick as a brick... the stats werent all bad mind you, getting 17(dex, elf boosted to 19) 16(con, elf dropped to 14) and 12(str) suited the martial nature of the weapon finesse/ranged slayer I was wanting to play.
Planning on making a oni-themed bloodrager, specifically one with the elemental (fire) bloodline that uses high strength and a Tetsubo. Recognizing that the elemental bloodline has quite a few weak powers, I was thinking about trading out most of them using the primalist archetype.
What rage powers would you recommend I pick up if i trade out my 4th, 12th & 16th powers? (Thinking I'd keep the extra speed from the 8th level power)
PS: This is not for pfs, so suggest anything paizo-based. If you'd like more info to help you make informed suggestions, let me know :)
Hmm that's interesting, thanks!
I'm curious to know how the damage on the drow blade works, and i'm also curious to know what exactly a sanpkhang is, googling it doesnt reveal anything relevant in images, so i'm assuming its something very unusual / created for pathfinder?
Is the wave blade part of the monk weapon group, or does it just have the monk property?
Drow razors are light exotic weapons that can be treated as if they were martial by creatures with the drow weapon familiarity racial trait. They deal extra damage on a critical hit or a sneak attack.
Cool, what's their damage / extra damage?
Ohhh more? How many are there and are they just "reskinned" versions of scimitars/kukris? Seems like this companion may have some more unusual weapons and i'm curious to know if they bring anything interesting to the table mechanically.
Gallant Armor wrote:
"Strike True" would be the melee equivalent of bullseye shot, but hitting isnt hard when you're vital striking.
Interesting suggestions though, got any other ideas? :)
Other than moving around, what are the best uses of your move action when using vital strike? Off the top of my head I can think of (improved) feinting, but what else do you think is a good use of your turn's move action?
(I'm aware that many people don't think vital strike is very good, but please refrain from starting up conversations about why you do/dont think vital striking is a waste of time/feat investment, i'm merely looking for ideas on how make the most out of otherwise unused move actions during your turn.)
James Jacobs wrote:
Wow, I'm glad I asked! :)Look at that beautiful list of goodies... Barbarian, Bloodrager, Brawler, Cleric, fighter, magus, monk, occultist, ranger... and even a warpriest archetype! (These are what just sealed the deal for me, the other class archetypes are just icing on the cake.)
I say, I'm getting hyped now.
I'd say the jungle lord archetype is the closest thing that exists already, show it to him to see if it's pretty much what he's looking for.
As "Secret Wizard" said, you can find it on nethys :)
Even if it's not, showing it to him should give you an idea of what he actually wants, at which point we'll be happy to suggest things that better suit his "vision" for his character. Chances are there's an archetype that exists to fit just about any concept!
Heh, I must say i've never made a cooky cutter build in my life, I usually go for more unusual flavor-based "average-ish" characters. I'm just pointing out that trying to make a D6 1/2 BAB martial character without any martial class abilities/bonus feats will probably mean you wont even be close to average unless you have something that compensates for that (Hence me asking if there's something that makes it a more appealing option).From my experience 1/2 BAB gimmick builds that heavily invest in martial stuff at early levels then inevitably drop off in mid levels, that can then neither perform martially nor beat SR/have decent DCs are difficult for the GM to include and not fun for the rest of the party who have to drag you around everywhere. (Perhaps quite literally "drag you around" given your lack of armor & d6 HD ^^)
That being said, I certainly don't disagree with how flavorful/visually interesting your character could be, I merely see practicality as a factor to consider.
also i would love some suggestions on how i can boost my attack bonus or BAB because being a wich my BAB stinks. i know i can stack strength
You could cast transformation for full BAB, when you get 6th level spells. Spell perfection + quickened spell = cast transformation and full attack in the same turn.This takes a while to set up though, and given that you're a 1/2 BAB full caster you should really be making use of your spells rather than trying to be a fighter that lacks bonus feats and weapon training... + your hit die means you're not going to last long in melee and you cant even wear armor (due to both lacking proficiency and spell failure) so you'll likely be spending most of the combat buffing yourself just to be able to survive/keep up in melee - So I'd wonder why you weren't spending this time crippling/obliterating the enemies using your full casting, given how powerful full casting is compared to the martial characters you'll be poorly imitating. I suppose the question I have to ask is why you're trying to do this, do you have a particular thing you're building around that makes this a more appealing option?
(Given the requests for suggestions and build advice, wouldn't this be better suited to the advice forum?)
Contingent action's readied actions arent the same as making multiple standard actions on your turn, thanks for pointing that spell out though.
Is monk of the four winds the only archetype that's capable of taking more than one standard action attack on their turn? I've tried searching for similar wording but I can't seem to find any others... Outside of mythic stuff, that is.
At the risk of showing off my ignorance here, how does one get a crit threat of 17-20? I'm not aware of any statted weapon with that range nor a way to increase an 18-20 to 17-20 within the pathfinder rules.
Hence the "Lets say there was a unique weapon that could crit on a roll of 17-20" part of the question, it's theoretical for the purpose of discussion :)