Favoured Class Bonus: 1 / 6 bonus feat starting at lvl 1?

Hi everyone,

Creating a Human Warpriest, and was planing to take the racial Favored Class Bonus for more feats:

Human - Gain ⅙ of a new bonus combat feat.

I assumed I could start doing this at lvl 1, getting the bonus feats at lvl 6/12/18.

But I read on another forum that you cant take the favored class bonus before you get your first normal bonus feat at lvl 3, meaning that the bonus feat's are given at lvl 9/15.

Which of these interpretations are correct? Or is this not cut and dry, so its up to the GM?

It's up to the GM, as there are multiple interpretations which can be valid.

One interpretation is based off of this FAQ here. The basic concept is that you cannot work towards getting a bonus to X until you have a regular X to begin with; this is given with examples related to increasing subjects such as feats related to the class feature. You substitute X with a given class feature, such as Channel Energy, Spellcasting, etc. There is also a Dev statement (I believe there is, anyway), giving an example of how a Human Rogue cannot select the Favored Class Option for Rogues until 2nd level, where he actually obtains a Rogue Talent, and he cannot receive a "Bonus Rogue Talent" if he never acquires a Rogue Talent class feature to begin with (as there are Archetypes which replace Rogue Talents altogether, I believe).

Another interpretation (in regards to the Warpriest specifically) is that this Bonus Feat does not provide the extra benefits of qualifying for feats and such, and therefore is not privy to requiring the Bonus Feats class feature to begin with. This can make sense, because it's not specified that this Bonus Feat receives the benefits of their class feature text, but it's not 100% defined one way or the other.

With that being said, it's ultimately GM FIAT. Some GMs might interpret that this Bonus Feat is just a generic one you receive, and therefore don't require a Class Feature for it to function. Another GM might interpret the exact opposite, that you receive all of the benefits (and restrictions) of the Bonus Feat you select, and therefore cannot choose it until you receive a Bonus Feat from your class levels (assuming you get any at all). Both interpretations have merit, and don't exactly disprove each other. Therefore, I suggest you check with your GM to determine how he runs it. Another, more unlikely scenario would be to ask a bunch of PFS GMs and get their take on it; if they say one interpretation is how it should be ran, then I'd assume that's Paizo's official stance on the matter.

I attempted to make a FAQ about this before, but it was left in the dust, and nobody really batted an eye about it (which I'm surprised, since this is about as unclarified as the definition of "wielding" a weapon). Unfortunately, it appears you'll be left to the whims of your GM to determine the viability of this option. Good luck.

For what it's worth, I'd let you start taking that at 1st level. Your character already has access to combat feats (by virtue of being a 1st level character), and if it doesn't specifically say it's a bonus feat for your class, I would assume it's a generic feat.

The way I've understood it is that you can't start getting FCB points towards a class feature til you've gotten the feature but you can start feats at level one since its just a feat.

The way I've understood it is that you can't start getting FCB points towards a class feature til you've gotten the feature but you can start feats at level one since its just a feat.

Again, that's just one potentially valid interpretation.

The other is that this extra feat you gain follows the rules of the bonus feats you gain as a class feature, which means unless you have the Bonus Feats class feature, you can't work toward getting this feat, which can be just as valid. The downside is you can't start this at level 1. The up side is that you get more feats that you otherwise normally wouldn't have access to, such as Critical Mastery, or Penetrating Strike.

Even if this was just a Fighter favored class bonus, you can still argue the other interpretation, because the Fighter bonus feats can be retrained at later levels (whereas feats normally never can, outside of Ultimate Campaign rules of course).

Again, that's just one potentially valid interpretation.

The other is that this extra feat you gain follows the rules of the bonus feats you gain as a class feature, which means unless you have the Bonus Feats class feature, you can't work toward getting this feat, which can be just as valid. The downside is you can't start this at level 1. The up side is that you get more feats that you otherwise normally wouldn't have access to, such as Critical Mastery, or Penetrating Strike.

Even if this was just a Fighter favored class bonus, you can still argue the other interpretation, because the Fighter bonus feats can be retrained at later levels (whereas feats normally never can, outside of Ultimate Campaign rules of course).

But not all classes have the "bonus feat" class feature. Kineticists don't get any bonus feats but the human FCB is +1/6 towards Extra Wild Talent. If you go by that interpretation then they could never get it. The fact that they can do it would mean that it would be treated the same for all classes.

There was an official response on this which makes the later interpretation correct. You cannot take FCB for abilities you do not possess yet. When I get off the road I'll try to find the source.

That being said, I've always houseruled it otherwise.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Again, that's just one potentially valid interpretation.

The other is that this extra feat you gain follows the rules of the bonus feats you gain as a class feature, which means unless you have the Bonus Feats class feature, you can't work toward getting this feat, which can be just as valid. The downside is you can't start this at level 1. The up side is that you get more feats that you otherwise normally wouldn't have access to, such as Critical Mastery, or Penetrating Strike.

Even if this was just a Fighter favored class bonus, you can still argue the other interpretation, because the Fighter bonus feats can be retrained at later levels (whereas feats normally never can, outside of Ultimate Campaign rules of course).

But not all classes have the "bonus feat" class feature. Kineticists don't get any bonus feats but the human FCB is +1/6 towards Extra Wild Talent. If you go by that interpretation then they could never get it. The fact that they can do it would mean that it would be treated the same for all classes.

I don't see how the Kineticist example is relevant to my point, counter or otherwise. Wild Talents are more similar to Rogue or Ninja or Slayer Talents than Bonus Feats, as far as class features are concerned. And there are FCBs that involve Rogue/Ninja/Slayer Talents. In those instances, until those classes receive Rogue/Ninja/Slayer Talents at the proper levels (usually 2nd level), they don't count as having the Rogue/Ninja/Slayer Talent class feature, which means it's not eligible for increasing your ability to have an extra of something that you don't have to begin with. It's like a Rogue at 1st level trying to take the Extra Rogue Talent feat; they can't, because they don't currently have the Rogue Talent class feature.

Wild Talents function similarly in this regard. If you don't have any Wild Talents granted to you from your class, then you don't count as having the Wild Talent class feature, which means the FCB won't be available for you to select.

All I'm saying, is that it's not clarified one way or another if the Bonus Feat you receive from the Warpriest FCB follows the same rules as your Bonus Feat class feature or not; it can be, it can not be, and it's important so as to determine when you can take it, and what other effects it might entail (such as qualifying for certain feats). And until a FAQ or something comes out, expect table variation.

I am agreeing with you on FCB that give class features. I'm not arguing there. Where I differ on is when the FCB gives a feat. A feat is not a class feature. Here is an example, using the kineticist again.

Halflings: Their FCB is +1/6 internal buffer. You cannot start getting that until you are level 6 and get that class feature.

Dwarves: +1/3 damage to earth element blasts. This can be taken at level 1 because it is not a class feature. It's just a straight damage increase.

Humans: +1/6 extra wild talent feat. This can be taken at level 1 because it is not a class feature.

It says

Warpriest: Gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat.

I see no class feature being referenced. The warpriest class feature, in any case, is called "bonus feat."

That would mean that this clause

Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level.

is not in effect.

I'm not sure this is at all what was intended, but it's what it says.

Feats aren't class abilities. They are their own sort of thing. I don't see any logic other than assertion that bonus feats are unique class abilities that supports the argument you shouldn't be able to take this FCB from 1.

It's clear if it's a unique class ability that you don't receive until say 3 this might apply, but feats are feats and you have them from one (if that were even necessary).

The problem with that FAQ is that the question was phrased in such a way as to slant towards the answer that was given.

It stemmed from people using the Oracle FCB to increase a revelation by 1/2, and applying it for the first 6 levels to a revelation that couldn't be taken until level 7, so that when they got the revelation they counted as level 10 for calculating its effects instantly.

It should have been more clearly phrased, such that when a class feature requires a certain level, you can only use the FCB towards that specific option after you meet the level to select that option.

This would have kept the limit they made the ruling for intact, but not caused problems with several of the FCB that have 1-5 dead levels based on the current wording.

Even in PFS, though, you can expect table variation.

The bonus feats granted by the warpriest class is absolutely a class feature. Everything listed under the "Special" column of a class is a class feature, no exceptions.

The bonus feats granted by the warpriest class is absolutely a class feature. Everything listed under the "Special" column of a class is a class feature, no exceptions.

Yes, but there's no clear indication that the FCB is 1/6 of a Warpriest Bonus Feat, as opposed to just a generic bonus feat.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

The bonus feats granted by the warpriest class is absolutely a class feature. Everything listed under the "Special" column of a class is a class feature, no exceptions.

Yes, but there's no clear indication that the FCB is 1/6 of a Warpriest Bonus Feat, as opposed to just a generic bonus feat.

Human Gain ⅙ of a new bonus combat feat.

Bonus Feats At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a warpriest gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats.

I guess it doesn't technically specify that it's based on the bonus feat class feature, but I think it's pretty clear that it's the intent. The specification of "bonus" makes me believe it works that way.

To me that just signifies that Pathfinder almost always specifies a feat as "bonus" if it isn't from levels and Hit Dice.

Yup - in general, non-HD feats tend to be bonus feats.

Furthermore, there are many Favored Class Bonuses that aren't actually related to any class ability (things like improving your CMD versus certain types of attacks, for example), so it's not like there's any kind of universal standard in-play here.

Alternative View: The 1/6th progression here starts at third level, which means if taken at all levels from that point on, you'd have a grand total of three bonus combat feats. So I can understand any argument saying they're meant to start at 3rd, and the first two levels are either HP or a Skill Point.

I am agreeing with you on FCB that give class features. I'm not arguing there. Where I differ on is when the FCB gives a feat. A feat is not a class feature. Here is an example, using the kineticist again.

Halflings: Their FCB is +1/6 internal buffer. You cannot start getting that until you are level 6 and get that class feature.

Dwarves: +1/3 damage to earth element blasts. This can be taken at level 1 because it is not a class feature. It's just a straight damage increase.

Humans: +1/6 extra wild talent feat. This can be taken at level 1 because it is not a class feature.

But in order to qualify for the Extra Wild Talent feat, you must have the Wild Talent class feature. You can't acquire a feat to which you don't meet the pre-requisites.

That's like saying there's a FCB that provides 1/6 of a Weapon Focus feat towards a specific weapon and I can take it at 1st level. Let's take for example, the Bastard Sword and I'm a Fighter. I can't take this FCB towards a Bastard Sword because I don't meet the pre-requisites for the feat, which is proficiency in the weapon. Unless I possess the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat (or some similar ability from a class or trait or other option), I cannot put points into this FCB, because I don't otherwise meet the feat's pre-requisites.

You would be correct in that feats, themselves, are not class features. Feats acquired from odd-numbered class levels/hit dice are not class features, because every class and creature gets them, and aren't limited by class. You might not be correct, however, in that bonus feats, such as those acquired from Fighters, Rangers, Monks, et. al., are not class features, because these bonus feats only apply when you do take levels in Fighter/Monk/Ranger, which is precisely what the Warpriest receives as a class feature: Bonus Feats.

But in order to qualify for the Extra Wild Talent feat, you must have the Wild Talent class feature. You can't acquire a feat to which you don't meet the pre-requisites.

Actually, that's not a pre-requisite for the feat.

That's like saying there's a FCB that provides 1/6 of a Weapon Focus feat towards a specific weapon and I can take it at 1st level. Let's take for example, the Bastard Sword and I'm a Fighter. I can't take this FCB towards a Bastard Sword because I don't meet the pre-requisites for the feat, which is proficiency in the weapon. Unless I possess the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat (or some similar ability from a class or trait or other option), I cannot put points into this FCB, because I don't otherwise meet the feat's pre-requisites.

I don't think you have to declare what the weapon focus is going to be fore if you're getting FCB points towards it. Only once you get 6/6 do you say what you're getting it. But I could be wrong on this.

How I look at it is if you get 1/6th of bonus combat feat is nothing. It's only become something after 6 levels. By that time you'd have bonus combat feats as a class feature and it would be useable. Technically the war priest is getting 1/3 of bonus combat feat starting a level 1.

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of the official response (which I still haven't found, sorry everybody) which is why I just let my players take their FCB at whatever level they want.

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of the official response (which I still haven't found, sorry everybody) which is why I just let my players take their FCB at whatever level they want.

I don't think the official response applies to bonus feats. It just appears to be an assumption everyone who thinks the official response applies appears to be making. You can take combat feats from one, so there is no reason you need to wait until 3 to take a bonus combat feat; that application of this rule makes no sense.

I disagree Mr.Pitt, as I stated a few posts up I believe the "bonus combat feats" are very clearly based on the class feature. I have yet to find a FCB that gives bonus feats for a class that doesn't normally grant bonus feats.

However I can understand the opposing argument and I certainly have no problem accepting that as a valid interpretation of RAW (especially since it agrees with how I houserule it anyways).

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

But in order to qualify for the Extra Wild Talent feat, you must have the Wild Talent class feature. You can't acquire a feat to which you don't meet the pre-requisites.

Actually, that's not a pre-requisite for the feat.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

That's like saying there's a FCB that provides 1/6 of a Weapon Focus feat towards a specific weapon and I can take it at 1st level. Let's take for example, the Bastard Sword and I'm a Fighter. I can't take this FCB towards a Bastard Sword because I don't meet the pre-requisites for the feat, which is proficiency in the weapon. Unless I possess the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat (or some similar ability from a class or trait or other option), I cannot put points into this FCB, because I don't otherwise meet the feat's pre-requisites.

I don't think you have to declare what the weapon focus is going to be fore if you're getting FCB points towards it. Only once you get 6/6 do you say what you're getting it. But I could be wrong on this.

My apologies. You're right, it's not a pre-requisite. But being a 6th level Kineticist is. Therefore, you cannot work towards it until you're a 6th level Kineticist, when you qualify for taking the feat, because you don't otherwise.

Also, consider this FCB from the Aasimar for Bards:

Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +½ level higher when determining the effects of that performance.

Would you rule that a 1st level Aasimar Bard could take this for, say, Inspire Competence, a 3rd level Bardic Performance? No? Then you shouldn't be able to work toward a subject that requires you to be a specific level to receive until you qualify for it, because you don't count as having that Bardic Performance until you reach 3rd level, according to the FAQ.

It boils down to whether this Bonus Feat follows all of the rules and limitations of the Warpriest's Bonus Feats (in that he uses his Warpriest level as Fighter Levels and BAB for qualifications); if it does, then he must wait until 3rd level (or until he receives the Bonus Feats class feature, depending on archetype). If it doesn't, then he can take it at 1st level, but as mentioned, it doesn't receive the benefits of his Bonus Feats class feature.

I think it should apply to bonus feats at level 1, but shouldn't apply to a specific ability you don't have. For example if it said "bonus Rogue Talent" yes level 1, if it said "Bonus to <Specific Rogue Talent>" you have to wait until you actually have that specific talent. I don't really have any further proof and rules judgment, it's just how I think it should work.

I think it should apply to bonus feats at level 1, but shouldn't apply to a specific ability you don't have. For example if it said "bonus Rogue Talent" yes level 1, if it said "Bonus to <Specific Rogue Talent>" you have to wait until you actually have that specific talent. I don't really have any further proof and rules judgment, it's just how I think it should work.

More like if it just said "Rogue Talent."

Stating you get a Bonus Rogue Talent would imply that you have regular Rogue Talents to begin with. Which you don't, until 2nd level at the earliest (perhaps later depending on archetype).

If an FCB improves a class feature, then you can't start using to improve a feature you don't have yet. But if the 'bonus feats' referred to by the Human Warpriest FCB really are actually referring to the class feature, then the FCB isn't improving a feature, it's granting it.

It makes sense that if you want to do something like use an FCB to improve an Oracle Revelation, then you would need to have that revelation to do it. But that's a very different thing than saying that you need to have a "Bonus Feat" before an FCB can grant you a "Bonus Feat". If an Oracle FCB said "you get an Oracle Revelation", why would you need to have an Oracle Revelation already to take it?

I agree with the logic about how the rules should work. I think the logic is sound and that is the way I run it in my games. However the official response says otherwise, and on the rules forums I stick to the hard rules as best as I can when responding to a question.

The official response wasn't That's exactly the point. The question that generated that FAQ was an Oracle who used the FCB on the Wings of Flame revelation (or whatever it was called) for 6 of the first 7 levels, so that when they took it at 7 they counted as level 10 and got the higher bonus immediately.

For classes getting a Bonus X (Feat, Talent, etc.) known, the wording doesn't hold up. If it said you count as 1/2 level higher For X rogue talent (something that scaled), then I agree you have to have taken that talent before you can improve it. But for getting 1/6 of a rogue talent, Feat, etc. then you should be able to take it from level 1.

As a matter of fact, I am looking for the FAQ on this right now. Where is it? I remember it, but can't find it now.

I remember it, but can't find it now.

Yeah it's starting to frustrate me. I know it's out there.

I disagree that the wording doesn't hold up. But at this point there's no more information being brought to the argument except "Well that isn't true for x" vs "Actually it is true for x", so the argument is kind of going in circles. I suppose at this point we will just have to agree to disagree.

OP, ask your DM and see what their interpretation is.

Just to throw in my 2 copper pieces; there are some archetypes for the warpriest that do not get the standard Bonus Feat class feature or progression such as the Sacred Fist who doesn't get a normal Bonus Feat class feature until 15th level. This leads me to think that the FCB bonus combat feats aren't tied to the Bonus Feat class feature otherwise the Sacred Fist could only gain one bonus combat feat from his FCB. I don't think that is how they intended the FCB to function so I'd say it's okay to take from first level (getting your bonus combat feats at 6th, 12th, and 18th levels).

Texas Snyper wrote:

I am agreeing with you on FCB that give class features. I'm not arguing there. Where I differ on is when the FCB gives a feat. A feat is not a class feature. Here is an example, using the kineticist again.

Halflings: Their FCB is +1/6 internal buffer. You cannot start getting that until you are level 6 and get that class feature.

Dwarves: +1/3 damage to earth element blasts. This can be taken at level 1 because it is not a class feature. It's just a straight damage increase.

Humans: +1/6 extra wild talent feat. This can be taken at level 1 because it is not a class feature.

But in order to qualify for the Extra Wild Talent feat, you must have the Wild Talent class feature. You can't acquire a feat to which you don't meet the pre-requisites.

That's like saying there's a FCB that provides 1/6 of a Weapon Focus feat towards a specific weapon and I can take it at 1st level. Let's take for example, the Bastard Sword and I'm a Fighter. I can't take this FCB towards a Bastard Sword because I don't meet the pre-requisites for the feat, which is proficiency in the weapon. Unless I possess the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat (or some similar ability from a class or trait or other option), I cannot put points into this FCB, because I don't otherwise meet the feat's pre-requisites.

You would be correct in that feats, themselves, are not class features. Feats acquired from odd-numbered class levels/hit dice are not class features, because every class and creature gets them, and aren't limited by class. You might not be correct, however, in that bonus feats, such as those acquired from Fighters, Rangers, Monks, et. al., are not class features, because these bonus feats only apply when you do take levels in Fighter/Monk/Ranger, which is precisely what the Warpriest receives as a class feature: Bonus Feats.

Racial feats are bonus feats and aren't related to your class.

Adaptability: Half-elves receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.

so bnus feats aren't an exclusive of t your class.

Well there are other examples of FCB granting bonuses to abilities that get replaced by archetypes. In those cases it simply doesn't make sense.

If an FCB improves a class feature, then you can't start using to improve a feature you don't have yet.

FCB which only give fractional bonus do not improve a class feature because they are rounded down to zero.

I could easily say a Monk should be allowed to take FCB for extra ki since the Monk does not gain the benefit FCB while he lacks a ki pool.

And frankly, FCB sucks already. Why do stuff like make it even more restrictive and hard to use? I already see most people not even bother with anything other than the SP or HP.

And frankly, FCB sucks already. Why do stuff like make it even more restrictive and hard to use? I already see most people not even bother with anything other than the SP or HP.

Really?

Monk should be allowed to take FCB for extra ki since the Monk does not gain the benefit FCB while he lacks a ki pool.

You are welcome to do so as a GM, but that isn't how it works. The question of whether or not +1/6 bonus combat feat works is subject to table variance. At my table it would work from 1st level when +ki would only work once you have a ki pool.

I thought they actually published a FAQ on this, but all I could find is John Compton talking about the issue with the design team. You can't take a FCB for something you don't have yet.

Would that mean it's a PFS specific rule then? If it only applies to PFS, then it doesn't really have grounds in terms of Developer intent. It's like the saying goes with Vegas, but instead it's PFS. What happens there, stays there.

@ Diego Rossi: Last I checked, Extra Wild Talent wasn't a race-specific feat, nor was it some general feat without a pre-requisite. It has a pre-requisite; you must be a 6th level Kineticist in order to take and/or use the feat. If you aren't a 6th level Kineticist, then you don't meet the pre-requisites, which means you can't work towards it with your FCB. This is no different than the Rogue Talent stuff. The FCB has a pre-requisite; that you must possess the Rogue Talent class feature. If you don't have the Rogue Talent class feature, then you don't meet the pre-requisites, which means you can't work towards it with your FCB.

@ Badbird: Again, it ultimately depends on what the effects of the Bonus Feat are. If they receive the benefits of the Warpriest's Bonus Feats class feature (i.e. they qualify for Fighter-level and BAB related feats as if it were their Warpriest level), then you need to be 3rd level for it to apply (or whatever level you get the Bonus Feats class feature). If it isn't, then I would agree it's a level 1 thing, as it doesn't follow a class feature given by said class, which requires you to possess said class feature in order to receive extra from it, or to receive its extra benefits.

This is no different than a Ranger FCB, for example, providing 1/6 of a Bonus Combat Style Feat. In order to have a Combat Style Feat, you must have the class feature. If you don't have the class feature (because you exchanged it for something else), then you can't work towards it. Period. End of discussion.

Bonus Feats are just as much a class feature as is the Class Skills and Skill Points/Level and Hit Dice of that class. Here is a FAQ example of what constitutes class features. Saying that Bonus Feats aren't class features, especially when altering the feat selections of such constitutes as altering a class feature, is just a silly, unfounded argument.

Thank you to everyone that chimed in. It seems that this is one of those that require GM input, so I think I will create two character progressions, one for each ruling, and then see what the GM says :)

@ Diego Rossi: Last I checked, Extra Wild Talent wasn't a race-specific feat, nor was it some general feat without a pre-requisite. It has a pre-requisite; you must be a 6th level Kineticist in order to take and/or use the feat. If you aren't a 6th level Kineticist, then you don't meet the pre-requisites, which means you can't work towards it with your FCB. This is no different than the Rogue Talent stuff. The FCB has a pre-requisite; that you must possess the Rogue Talent class feature. If you don't have the Rogue Talent class feature, then you don't meet the pre-requisites, which means you can't work towards it with your FCB.

Unless I misread your statement, you were saying that all bonus feats are a class feature. I did show you that there are bonus feats that aren't class features.

That whole waiting til you get the class feature to 'start' improving it is baloney. I and other dms i know allow investment into an alternate favored class bonus starting at level one. In most cases i am aware of, the benefit of such investments usually don't kick in until after you get said class feature anyways. Elven magus gets their first arcana at level three and wouldn't get his first bonus arcana from fcb until level six at the earliest.

As for the extra combat feats, i'd certainly allow level one investment into that. Alternate favored class bonus options are a very significant part of race / class choices. Would you really make a character wait til level 9 or later to see any return on his investment? Some games never even make it that far.

I really don't think this is an unclear issue, it's just a ruling/comment on a specific thing that is being confused with some kind of universal rule. The statement in question is:

Related Point: Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?

No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.

So you can't augment the effective level of a Revelation or a Bardic Performance or whatever else until you have it. This has nothing to do with whether or not you can be granted something you don't have yet. The Human Warpriest FCB has nothing to do with increasing the "effective level" of anything. If the FCB said "you may treat your level as 1/6 higher for the effects of one of your Warpriest bonus feats" then you would need to have that bonus feat to use the FCB on it; but clearly the FCB in question has nothing to do with the effective level of anything.

Would that mean it's a PFS specific rule then? If it only applies to PFS

You totally missed the part where it is NOT a PFS rule, is a general rule, the rules don't need a change (at the time), as it isn't changing the way things work?

This isn’t actually a new rule. It’s just a clarification that I confirmed with the design team because it seemed that some folks were assuming otherwise.

And also like some people in this thread.

I really don't think this is an unclear issue, it's just a ruling/comment on a specific thing that is being confused with some kind of universal rule. The statement in question is:

John Compton wrote:

Related Point: Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?

No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.

So you can't augment the effective level of a Revelation or a Bardic Performance or whatever else until you have it. This has nothing to do with whether or not you can be granted something you don't have yet. The Human Warpriest FCB has nothing to do with increasing the "effective level" of anything. If the FCB said "you may treat your level as 1/6 higher for the effects of one of your Warpriest bonus feats" then you would need to have that bonus feat to use the FCB on it; but clearly the FCB in question has nothing to do with the effective level of anything.

I see 1/6th of something as nothing. You get the bonus combat feat at 3rd, you don't get FC bonus combat feat till 6th assuming you applied all favor class bonus to that feat. At 6th when do get it you qualify.

For those of you that deigned not to follow the link:

Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?

No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.

This isn’t actually a new rule. It’s just a clarification that I confirmed with the design team because it seemed that some folks were assuming otherwise.

when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have

Technically, that ruling only applies to FCB that change the "effective level" of a class ability. It doesn't independently say "you can only select a feature that you already have", implying the opposite case is the norm.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have

Technically, that ruling only applies to FCB that change the "effective level" of a class ability. It doesn't independently say "you can only select a feature that you already have", implying the opposite case is the norm.

No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have.

It says exactly that, word for word.

John Compton wrote:

No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have.

It says exactly that, word for word.

No, that's how you are reading it. Pay closer attention to the word "when". That word implies the second phrase is only true when the conditional phrase is met.

I disagree Mr.Pitt, as I stated a few posts up I believe the "bonus combat feats" are very clearly based on the class feature. I have yet to find a FCB that gives bonus feats for a class that doesn't normally grant bonus feats.

Even if that's true, it doesn't cite the class feature precisely. And if you can accept one loose interpretation, why not another?

John Compton wrote:

No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have.

It says exactly that, word for word.

You're skipping over the entire first half of that sentence. "when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase..." tells you when that second part applies.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have

Technically, that ruling only applies to FCB that change the "effective level" of a class ability. It doesn't independently say "you can only select a feature that you already have", implying the opposite case is the norm.

Quite so. The ruling exists to prevent suddenly nonsense, not keep you from acquiring and advancing logical abilities that work just fine without particular class feature.