For those of you who are disappointed in the random aspect of the miniatures, please read the following taken from the FAQ attached to the press release. You still may not agree, but at least you will understand why we are doing what we are doing.
-Lisa
Q: Why prepainted plastic miniatures in randomized packs?
A: Prepainted plastic miniatures are expensive to make. Sculpting and painting are costly, and making molds for plastic figures is costlier still. To make all these costs work, you need to spread them out over a large number of miniatures. If these figures were released individually, some would sell better than others, and some--or even many--of them would lose money. Randomizing the miniatures ensures that you sell predictable quantities of each figure, and it also allows you to price them reasonably without losing your shirt. Another benefit of averaging out costs over a large number of figures is that it allows you to spend more money on some miniatures--you can make them larger or more detailed, or add more complicated (and thus more expensive) paint operations than you could otherwise justify. In short, selling more of the common minis allows you to spend more money on the rarer figures.Randomized miniatures also allow you to provide more variety. Not only can you introduce more figures at once, but the fact that you make make some of them rarer than others means you can produce plenty of the figures that everyone needs, like goblins or skeletons, and fewer of the figures that have narrower appeal, like strange monsters or iconic figures.
Another factor to think about is the brick-and-mortar retailer. It's much easier for a retailer to stock single booster packs than individual packaged minis. Our first set, Heroes & Monsters, contains 40 miniatures. Selling them individually would require a lot of retailer effort to keep them all in stock--and it would also require a lot of space to display those miniatures. And if next year's 60-figure Rise of the Runelords set were released as...
It's less the random factor that gets me (though it's been my wish that maybe people might start selling things like 'orc horde' or 'skeleton crew' *in addition to* random packs as those are fairly commonly used monsters that often require multiple copies of the same). My issue is the price. I know you guys don't have the production value WotC had with it's minis but $6 for a *single* large plastic mini is just a little too steep and I've become notorious in my group for buying more minis than I probably should. Or $4 for a medium *or* two small? I mean when you're selling a box of six medium minis for $10-12 I can see the point of randomizing but when it's a single, uno, ich, einz, mini and then even *that* is randomized it seems a little less worth the gamble.
I don't know... I'm still torn and now it looks like I wouldn't even be able to get the black dragon mini if I pre-ordered or subscribed or whatnot.
I don't know... I'm still torn and now it looks like I wouldn't even be able to get the black dragon mini if I pre-ordered or subscribed or whatnot.
If they're still offering the subscription option for this set, then they still have Black Dragon minis to be ordered with it. It's been stated that as soon as they run out of dragons, they'll stop permitting people to subscribe to this item, and they'll have to wait for the Rise of the Runelords set to come available.
Wizkids offered their Huge Apocalypse and sentinel figs in their Huge Marvel Heroclix boosters and because their was such a demand for them they released them separatly.
Whats to say they don't do the same for the Huge Black Dragon.
DM Doom......I know you think it seems expensive paying $4 to $6 for the randomized miniatures but you gotta admit, its better than being forced to pay $15 - $20 for 6 to 8 figures like the D&D minis were offered for.
D&D minis never gave you the choice to buy just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 minis at a crack.
Because their boosters were packaged in 6 to 8 figures per booster you had to pay the $15 - $20 in order to get them.
Regardless of the date, as a subscriber I would appreciate good advance notice so I can make sure funds are available. $20 for an AP is one thing, but $275 is quite another. I am looking forward to this release ALOT, so can we please be provided with adequate advanced notice? (this is not a complaint about anything in the past, but 2 weeks notice would be great so I can manage all the bills!)
I imagine we should know for sure well in advance, and will not be shy about telling people about it.
Just as a point, I got the email for Jade Regent 3 yesterday, and got charged for the AP today. That is fine, but if I get only one days notice for something like the Case, it will be a hit or miss on how close to pay day it is whether I have money freed up or not.
One day is fine for an AP, not for a case. Of course I am trying like some have suggested to buy Paizo Gift certificates to curtail this.
Wizkids offered their Huge Apocalypse and sentinel figs in their Huge Marvel Heroclix boosters and because their was such a demand for them they released them separatly.
Whats to say they don't do the same for the Huge Black Dragon.
DM Doom......I know you think it seems expensive paying $4 to $6 for the randomized miniatures but you gotta admit, its better than being forced to pay $15 - $20 for 6 to 8 figures like the D&D minis were offered for.
D&D minis never gave you the choice to buy just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 minis at a crack.
Because their boosters were packaged in 6 to 8 figures per booster you had to pay the $15 - $20 in order to get them.
I was in a collectibles store today looking at Marvel Hero CLix just as a reference as to how good the Paizo minis could look. They are really nice. I almost bought Surtur from Marvel because well quite obviously he is a fire giant, but even with the Kirby look would have made a great Fire Giant mini, and on a good scale too. But he was $20 because he was of the rares. I didn't want to spend that much, I suspect he was a bit overpriced because the left over DDM were overpriced.
If I'm paying $4-6 for a single miniature I'll go with a company like Reaper. Those are prices I'd expect to pay for metal miniatures, not prepainted plastics. In fact, you are better off getting the metal pathfinder miniatures from Reaper.
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If I'm paying $4-6 for a single miniature I'll go with a company like Reaper. Those are prices I'd expect to pay for metal miniatures, not prepainted plastics. In fact, you are better off getting the metal pathfinder miniatures from Reaper.
True...........but you'd still have to paint them.
As a married, father of three besides working full time and yard work and family stuff and....well, you get the point....Its hard to paint anything anymore.
So i'll gladly fork over the little extra.
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I'm sure others will probably take up the challenge and will likely do far more of a professional job, but for now I have slapped together: www.pathfinderminis.com
Oh nice. Shinny.
Finally subscribed :D can't wait!
Chief Technical Officer
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Regardless of the date, as a subscriber I would appreciate good advance notice so I can make sure funds are available. $20 for an AP is one thing, but $275 is quite another. I am looking forward to this release ALOT, so can we please be provided with adequate advanced notice? (this is not a complaint about anything in the past, but 2 weeks notice would be great so I can manage all the bills!)
I imagine we should know for sure well in advance, and will not be shy about telling people about it.
Just as a point, I got the email for Jade Regent 3 yesterday, and got charged for the AP today. That is fine, but if I get only one days notice for something like the Case, it will be a hit or miss on how close to pay day it is whether I have money freed up or not.
One day is fine for an AP, not for a case. Of course I am trying like some have suggested to buy Paizo Gift certificates to curtail this.
Just a note that you haven't actually been charged for that shipment yet; what you're seeing is an authorization; essentially, we're checking to see if your card *can* be charged. If it can, the proper amount is put on hold for us to officially charge in the next few days; if enough credit isn't available, you'd get an email letting you know that.
Just a note that you haven't actually been charged for that shipment yet; what you're seeing is an authorization; essentially, we're checking to see if your card *can* be charged. If it can, the proper amount is put on hold for us to officially charge in the next few days; if enough credit isn't available, you'd get an email letting you know that.Just as a point, I got the email for Jade Regent 3 yesterday, and got charged for the AP today. That is fine, but if I get only one days notice for something like the Case, it will be a hit or miss on how close to pay day it is whether I have money freed up or not.
One day is fine for an AP, not for a case. Of course I am trying like some have suggested to buy Paizo Gift certificates to curtail this.
Of course, most banks put a hold on funds when an authorization happens, which can cause problems. Which is why I leave my subscriptions tied to a credit card. When the pre-authorizations happen I can then safely move money around as needed without having to worry about ill timed overdrafts.
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I don't know... I'm still torn and now it looks like I wouldn't even be able to get the black dragon mini if I pre-ordered or subscribed or whatnot.we're going to find out if this theory over if pre packaged sets will survive in the market come '12..when wizards releases thier D&D mini packs/ skrimish game. I'm eagerly awaiting both sets. ( i just love using minis in my campaigns...)
I know we should take this to another thread, but other than the Dragon set, what other minis set is WotC releasing?
Later,
Mazra
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Chief Technical Officer
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I know we should take this to another thread, but other than the Dragon set, what other minis set is WotC releasing?
At Gen Con, they announced a card-driven skirmish game for 2012, using packs of 10-12 figures. If you'd like to discuss it further, please head over to the Miniatures forum.
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I know we should take this to another thread, but other than the Dragon set, what other minis set is WotC releasing?At Gen Con, they announced a card-driven skirmish game for 2012, using packs of 10-12 figures. If you'd like to discuss it further, please head over to the Miniatures forum.
Thanks Vic for the info. I missed that news.
....trodding over to Miniatures forum.......
Later,
Mazra
I'm not sure what to think of the mini's that were pre-viewed last Friday (Rogue, Wizard, Druid) and the new pictures of the mini's in the Beginner's Box set that I just discovered today. I really liked that matte finish on the mini's in the old Beginner's Box pictures and the ones currently on display for the Heroes and Monsters set and I had assumed that going with a matte finish was a style choice meant to distinguish the Pathfinder mini's line from other lines.
This has really put me on the fence about ordering a case, I was planing on doing so this weekend but now I'm not certain that I would be getting what I would have been expecting.
I'm not sure what to think of the mini's that were pre-viewed last Friday (Rogue, Wizard, Druid) and the new pictures of the mini's in the Beginner's Box set that I just discovered today. I really liked that matte finish on the mini's in the old Beginner's Box pictures and the ones currently on display for the Heroes and Monsters set and I had assumed that going with a matte finish was a style choice meant to distinguish the Pathfinder mini's line from other lines.This has really put me on the fence about ordering a case, I was planing on doing so this weekend but now I'm not certain that I would be getting what I would have been expecting.
I can't say I was too thrilled by the latest mini preview either.
Rogue:
There are many cool looking rogues out there, and this one is not one of them. Just some generic guy slinking behind a cape. Maybe he's a vampire, because that's a classic vampire pose. The next words from his mouth that I am expecting are, "I want to drink your blood."
Also, its so hard to tell on the picture but it looks like his facial features, and specifically his nose are quite enlarged. His face looks dwarven to me... but alas, there is not much to go on given the limited views.
Wizard:
This mini seems fine. Nothing too fancy, but they all can't be for cost reasons.
Druid:
I like the mini, but greatly dislike that it is being released in this type of format. I will likely never have a use for this mini unless I run a Mwangi Expanse campaign. This again reinforces to me why mini sets should be themed. I would like to see a Sargava / Mwangi expanse campaign set, or a set tied around the Adventure Path that occurs there. I can't say that Mwangi female druids come up too often in any other campaign I have played.
I guess my point was more to the difference say between the old Kyra picture and the new picture. If you look at the two pictures side by side you can see that the detail was dialed WAY down and that the matte finish was replaced with semi-gloss and Kyra was the "Star" of that set. While I'm on the subject of Kyra... who made the decision to go overboard with the yellow? Yuck!
I don't really have any particular issue with with the Rogue, Wizard and Druid mini's other than by example they don't bode well for the rest of the set and that I now expect the detail that we currently see displayed in the Hero's and Monster's pictures will in reality not be there. Which makes me sad. =(
I think the rogue looks a bit silly. If it was small, maybe it would be interesting, but as a human, I just can't take it too seriously.
The wizard just needs some black paint on the nose to be a cat person.
As for the druid, sorry, I don't get impression that it would only be appropriate for some unusual setting. I see no reason why the character wouldn't fit in any fantasy setting. In fact nothing about it makes me think it has to be druid. It could be a commoner, a sorcerer, cleric, monk, whatever.
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Different strokes!
I really like the Rogue. The detail in the eyes are really good for PPM. The pose can be both Rogue or Assassin. I can definitely find a use for him as an NPC or an encounter in a town adventure.
Again, I really like the Elf Wizard. I like the Dark Haired versions of Elves. The pose is dynamic. I could see someone using this one as their PC. If not, an NPC is a definite possibility.
If there is one I like the least, it would be the Druid; and for no other reason than that things she is holding in her hands is way too big. However, the figurine has a lot of utility as a villager or bystander. We need figurines in non-aggressive poses. I do like the detail on this one. So to say I like it the least, is like saying which one in a box of Godiva's do I like the least.
Looking forward to today's preview.
Later,
Mazra
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Chief Technical Officer
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I guess my point was more to the difference say between the old Kyra picture and the new picture. If you look at the two pictures side by side you can see that the detail was dialed WAY down and that the matte finish was replaced with semi-gloss and Kyra was the "Star" of that set. While I'm on the subject of Kyra... who made the decision to go overboard with the yellow? Yuck!
Let's be clear here: are you talking about the difference between the computer-generated rendering here and the production sample photograph here? Keep in mind that that digital image is at about 300% of actual size, while the photo is about 200% of actual size. Yes, there was some detail in the rendering that just isn't possible to distinguish at 100%, so areas like the silver hem of her inner skirt were simplified from a series of dots to a line, but there's still plenty of detail there. I've got an actual mini in my hand right now, and while things like the texture in the yellow skirt may not be as sharp as in the digital render, they're still very much present in the finished figure.
As for the finish, what you're seeing as semi-gloss in the photo may be an artifact of the lighting. In the finished mini, all of the metal bits are very glossy, while the cloth bits are much more of a matte finish.
Judge for yourself when you see the real deal, of course, but I think Kyra is one of the best prepainted fantasy minis this industry has ever produced.
While I'm on the subject of Kyra... who made the decision to go overboard with the yellow? Yuck!
The color scheme is lifted right off of the iconic image...
Let's be clear here: are you talking about the difference between the computer-generated rendering here and the production sample photograph here?
Yes, those are the two images I was referring to. I wasn't sure if the first was a digital sculpt or a computer render. Thanks for clearing that up.
Keep in mind that that digital image is at about 300% of actual size, while the photo is about 200% of actual size.
...and the photo is somewhat blurry.
Yes, there was some detail in the rendering that just isn't possible to distinguish at 100%, so areas like the silver hem of her inner skirt were simplified from a series of dots to a line, but there's still plenty of detail there.
The grey dot's going to a silver line was a disappointment for me but there's also her pants/boots. It's hard to tell what the current color is but it doesn't look blue to me. I can't see dots on her pants and the computer render looks a lot better here.
I've got an actual mini in my hand right now, and while things like the texture in the yellow skirt may not be as sharp as in the digital render, they're still very much present in the finished figure.
So when we're talking about the yellow in the yellow skirt that's not the yellow that I think is over done and "Yuck!". All and all the skirt and it color looks fine and is reasonably close to what it represented in the computer render but its does look like the texture was toned down like you said.
As for the finish, what you're seeing as semi-gloss in the photo may be an artifact of the lighting. In the finished mini, all of the metal bits are very glossy, while the cloth bits are much more of a matte finish.
Which I think was a big mistake, I thought that going all solid colors and no gloss or metalics was a bold style choice and a brave direction to go and frankly I loved it. It really would have made the Pathfinder pre-painted mini's really stand out among other pre-painted mini's. That is just my opinion though, take it for what's it's worth...
Judge for yourself when you see the real deal, of course, but I think Kyra is one of the best prepainted fantasy minis this industry has ever produced.
Believe me I will, I have the Beginner's Box set pre-ordered at my local games shop. If I like what I get I'll order a case of the Hero's and Monsters and the next set after that.
While I'm on the subject of Kyra... who made the decision to go overboard with the yellow? Yuck!
The color scheme is lifted right off of the iconic image...
Well, I'd say that the sleeves and that cloth thing at here waist are more of a light tan in the above image than the pastel yellow (this the "yuck" I was refering to) I'm seeing here. Where as an off white was used in those same places in the computer render and made for a more interesting contrast and was closer to the iconic artwork. Also, I preferred the color of the sun circles in the computer render but now I'm just splitting hairs.
Vic, I know that Paizo it's here to please me so I hope you just take all this as customer feedback and not an attack on Paizo or your new mini's line. I liked what I saw in the computer render's because they were so distinct and different from DMM and other pre-painted mini's and I'm just disappointed that what I'm seeing now doesn't seem as close to that mark as I had hoped it would be.
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Personally, I am blown away by Kyra. I have.....a lot.....of miniatures. Most of them pre-painted, some I painted, and a few pro-painted. If what I get in hand is close to the production sample image it will clearly surpass the miniatures I painted, (my paints are usually better than the PPMs and for no other reason than I usually use a lot more paint steps), and come close if not equal to the pro-painted miniatures. I am really looking forward to getting her in hand.
Later,
Mazra
I don't see how one could spend much time "sorting" miniatures. If you get an Orc, throw it in with the other Orcs, Bam! You're done. Right?
As for opening boxes...well...a lot of things come in boxes. *Shrug* Is it really so onerous? Personally, I'm looking forward to opening each and every little box in the case I've pre-ordered. Each one is going to be like a little Xmas gift to myself! (Assuming they get here in time!)
i'm not a fan of random minis, but i'm in disbelief over the reasoning for not being interested in this at all,
Most of us would just discover the product was not to our liking and move on; if the company were selling singles and encounter sets that would also help...owait
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I don't see how one could spend much time "sorting" miniatures. If you get an Orc, throw it in with the other Orcs, Bam! You're done. Right?
As for opening boxes...well...a lot of things come in boxes. *Shrug* Is it really so onerous? Personally, I'm looking forward to opening each and every little box in the case I've pre-ordered. Each one is going to be like a little Xmas gift to myself! (Assuming they get here in time!)
My thoughts exactly. A case is what my wife is getting me for Christmas. We both would be disappointed if it isn't under the tree. :-)
Later,
Mazra
As for opening boxes...well...a lot of things come in boxes. *Shrug* Is it really so onerous? Personally, I'm looking forward to opening each and every little box in the case I've pre-ordered. Each one is going to be like a little Xmas gift to myself! (Assuming they get here in time!)
I can't see any real option, but if it's anything like the DDM packaging, it's going to get annoying after the first ten or so, imo. Especially if you have a case or more to get through.
I'm hoping they shift to boosters of a half-dozen minis or so, personally. It would still be annoying - but slightly less so.
I just keep the garbage basket nearby so I can chuck the little bags that the minis come wrapped in into the crap-can right away so there is no clean up afterwards.
Yeah, it's solvable. Still annoying though (to me anyhow). I had considered trying to preserve the packaging to resell the surplus minis I end up with 'reboxed', but I suspect it's going to be too much effort.
Speaking of packaging, they seem to have added picture of the boosters, bricks and case at the top of the page. Any chance we can get a larger picture of each? They look pretty cool...
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I just keep the garbage basket nearby so I can chuck the little bags that the minis come wrapped in into the crap-can right away so there is no clean up afterwards.
Historically, Wizkids has only done bags for flying figures that come in 2 pieces, usually they have a plastic "box" on the inside that the base of the mini fits into to prevent damage during shipping.
Historically, Wizkids has only done bags for flying figures that come in 2 pieces, usually they have a plastic "box" on the inside that the base of the mini fits into to prevent damage during shipping.I just keep the garbage basket nearby so I can chuck the little bags that the minis come wrapped in into the crap-can right away so there is no clean up afterwards.
I suppose it would make sense to not package them in bags if their individually packed.
Packaging definitly catches the eye.
Hmm. Looks like that's currently busted... until we fix it, you can go here:
I really want this product line to succeed so I wish to raise a possible concern. Believe it or not, there are still many roleplayers out there that don't know what Pathfinder is. (Fools!) However, if I was a casual gamer or a die hard 4th edition player, if I were to walk by this product in a gaming store I would have no idea what the heck it is. I would probably assume that its just some card game.
The packaging looks great, but I still think that to the casual passer-by the package should shout "Pre-Painted Miniatues".
Even on the larger packaging of the display case there is still nothing that shouts out "Pre-Painted Miniatues".
This packaging suffers from 2 significant marketing weaknesses (in my opinion):
1. A consumer cannot readily identify by the title of the product what it is.
"Pathfinder Battles" doesn't convey any clear meaning. The fact that its not even a skirmish game means the only possible meaning it could infer, is false. I know that "Pathfinder Miniatures" was not available, but could they have not gone with something clearer like "Pathfinder Mini's"? The product name would be fine though, if underneath in large lettering it also indicated "Pre-Painted Miniatures".
2. The display images on the packaging do not denote what the product is.
The images on the packages and the display case do not clearly convey what is inside the box. Great artwork, but nothing about it says to a passer-by that there are pre-painted plastic miniatures contained within the packaging. I do realize that on the sides of the package that there may be 1 or more pictures of the minis, but I doubt someone unfamiliar with the product may notice it unless a box is picked up and examined.
Despite the fact that "I" do like the appearance of the packaging and even the name, I am very worried that this product is not being marketed as well as it could be.
FLGS's that have display space available will do themselves well to put some figures on display. I do believe this product should spread through word of mouth well in the gaming community (very important), so perhaps the need to clearly communicate what the product is, may not be as high?
If the packaging has not been finalized, I would highly recommend that at least on the front of the brick display that Paizo include some pictures of mini's to help convey what they are. Adding the words "Pre-Painted Plastic Mini's" couldn't hurt either.
Kor, all 3 state Collectible figures or 1 collectible figure on them in bright red (against dark green and blue so they stick out). They don't say prepainted, but you'd think that a normal player that sees it and sees collectible figure would pick it up and see the picture on the side
Well, when I see the word figure... I think collectable action figure. To me it means very little.
How many times have you miniature collectors seen a box with a really cool painted mini on it, picked it up and then turned it around and read the fine print only to realize that it contains an unpainted lead mini? I hate that feeling.
That wouldn't happen to me with this box as the word "figure" is just not enough for me to pick it up. To me, the box should scream "Pre-painted miniature". This box clearly doesn't.
Anyways, I really hope I am the only who thinks this way and I hope I am completely wrong, because I still want to be collecting this line in 5 years from now. And on the plus side, in 5 years the product should be so well known it probably won't matter what they have on the box :)
The booster packs do have images of the minis on them. (They're the digital renderings, as no photography was available at the time the packaging had to be completed.)
The most important message that potential consumers need to see is that these are pre-painted minis. When you walk by the front of the box, you don't see whats depicted on the side or the back. The front neither depicts what the product is, nor does it clearly state what the product is. It really should do one of these two. I don't believe that it does.
Here's hoping that "collectable figure" is enough to grab people's attention, but I have never referred to my miniatures as "figures". When I think of all the conventions I have been to and the Warhammer games I have played, I cannot ever think of a time someone referred to the mini's as being "figures". Maybe I'm just getting hung up on this one word. *shrugs*
Anyways, I think I've tried to make my point to the best of my ability. I'm certainly no marketing major, so here's hoping I don't know what the heck I am talking about :)
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I was about to Tell Kor here that it is WizKids, not everyone may know Pathfinder, but many, many more do know WizKids and they know all they do is pre-painted...Then I noticed that no where on the Box does it Say WizKids which surprised the hell out of me.
I am thinking Paizo Name and WizKids name will be added to the product box when they are final.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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All of the language on the packaging of this first set was taken directly from similar successful product that WizKids has released in this format. I understand your point and have some thoughts on how to improve packaging in the future, but honestly I am not too worried about it.
People will figure it out.
Well regardless of marketing issues, I think they look great. Blue and Green have always been my favourite colours :)
Hey Erik, any way we can see another large mini in this fridays preview? Even just 1 large mini? Maybe the ogre?
+1 for "large mini"
-1 for "ogre"
Paizo has done some FANTASTIC things with this RPG. The overgrown Muppet is not on that list.
I still want to see an Elf Archer...if there is one...
(It is a staple, much like the Dwarf with Axe).