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I have always wanted to get a Sleipnir as a mount, but unless you are playing a high level campaign from the start, it takes a very long time if you start from level one and work your way to where you can get one using regular pathfinder rules. I think the only viable way to get one would be to have the leadership feat and have a pc level of 18 in order to qualify to recruit one as a monstrous cohort.

So enter the idea of the demisleipnir. Using a combination of the animal companion/mount class feature, monstrous mount and monstrous mount mastery feats, and an animal companion archetype specifically for it to spice things up.

Demisleipnir

Like their demigod counterparts, demisleipnirs are a product of a mating between a slepnir and a regular horse, although even the horse must be of extraordinary quality and impeccable breed to catch the eye of the legendary mounts of the gods. They are often slightly bigger than regular horses and share some the extraordinary qualities of their legendary sire/dams. They have six legs, 4 in front and two in back. Are known for their endurance and power. While not quite as powerful as their sleipnir brethren, they are far easier to tame and train. This makes them highly prized and sought after as mounts and animal companions, unfortunately they are even rarer and harder to find than an actual sleipnir.

Monstrous Mount stat block:

Demisleipnir

Prerequisite(s): Diplomacy or Intimidate 5 ranks; Ride 5 ranks; languages Auran.

Starting Statistics
Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves (1d6); Ability Scores Str 18, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 10; Languages Auran (cannot speak); Special Qualities darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision.

7th-Level Advancement

Attack bite (1d4), 4 hooves (1d6); Special Attacks powerful charge (hooves, 2d8+(2 *Str mod), trample (slam, 1d8+(1.5*Str mod))

Mastery (7th Level)

Constant—air walk (CL = number of HD-4, and concentration = CL + Charisma modifier)

Blood of the Gods (demisleipnir companion archetype)

Some demisleipnirs take more after their noble kin and can display and use abilites and powers others of their kind do not have due to their diluted bloodline.

Crushing Hooves(Ex)

The demisleipnir companion gains multi-attack as a bonus feat

This replaces share spells

Godly Resistance(Ex)

At 3rd level, the demisleipnir companion gains electricity resistance 5.

This replaces evasion

Improved Godly Resistance(Ex)

At 6th level, the demisleipnir companion's electricity resistance increases to 10 and it gains cold resistance 5. At 15th level, it becomes immune to electricity and its cold resistance increases to 10.

This replaces devotion

Breath Weapon(Su)

At 9th level, the demisleipnir companion gains a breath weapon, usable once per day. As a standard action, a demisleipnir can exhale a 30-foot cone of shimmering, rainbow-colored light. Every creature in the area is randomly struck by one or more beams, as a prismatic spray spell (DC = 10 + half the demisleipnir companion’s Hit Dice + the demisleipnir companion’s Constitution modifier half or negates.) At 15th level it can use the breath weapon twice a day, but it must wait 1d6 rounds between uses.

This replaces Multiattack(one gained from animal companion table) and improved evasion.

This what I have come up with so far, I tried to make something powerful and balanced, but not game breaking. Tell me what you guys think of it, any input or suggestions is gladly welcomed and appreciated.

I have always wanted to get a Sleipnir as a mount, but unless you are playing a high level campaign from the start, it takes a very long time if you start from level one and work your way to where you can get one using regular pathfinder rules. I think the only viable way to get one would be to have the leadership feat and have a pc level of 18 in order to qualify to recruit one as a monstrous cohort.

So enter the idea of the demisleipnir. Using a combination of the animal companion/mount class feature, monstrous mount and monstrous mount mastery mastery, and an animal companion archetype specifically for it to spice things up.

Demisleipnir

Like their demigod counterparts, demisleipnirs are a product of a mating between a slepnir and a regular horse, although even the horse must be of extraordinary quality and impeccable breed to catch the eye of the legendary mounts of the gods. They are often slightly bigger than regular horses and share some the extraordinary qualities of their legendary sire/dams. They have six legs, 4 in front and two in back. Are known for their endurance and power. While not quite as powerful as their sleipnir brethren, they are far easier to tame and train. This makes them highly prized and sought after as mounts and animal companions, unfortunately they are even rarer and harder to find than an actual sleipnir.

Monstrous Mount stat block:

Demisleipnir

Prerequisite(s): Diplomacy or Intimidate 5 ranks; Ride 5 ranks; languages Auran.

Starting Statistics
Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves (1d6); Ability Scores Str 18, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 10; Languages Auran (cannot speak); Special Qualities darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision.

7th-Level Advancement

Attack bite (1d4), 4 hooves (1d6); Special Attacks powerful charge (hooves, 2d8+(2 *Str mod), trample (slam, 1d8+(1.5*Str mod))

Mastery (7th Level)

Constant—air walk (CL = number of HD-4, and concentration = CL + Charisma modifier)

Blood of the Gods (demisleipnir companion archetype)

Some demisleipnirs take more after their noble kin and can display and use abilites and powers others of their kind do not have due to their diluted bloodline.

Crushing Hooves(Ex)

The demisleipnir companion gains multi-attack as a bonus feat

This replaces share spells

Godly Resistance(Ex)

At 3rd level, the demisleipnir companion gains electricity resistance 5.

This replaces evasion

Imporved Godly Resistance(Ex)

At 6th level, the demisleipnir companion's electricity resistance increases to 10 and it gains cold resistance 5. At 15th level, it becomes immune to electricity and its cold resistance increases to 10.

This replaces devotion

Breath Weapon(Su)

At 9th level, the demisleipnir companion gains a breath weapon, usable once per day. As a standard action, a demisleipnir can exhale a 30-foot cone of shimmering, rainbow-colored light. Every creature in the area is randomly struck by one or more beams, as a prismatic spray spell (DC = 10 + half the demisleipnir companion’s Hit Dice + the demisleipnir companion’s Constitution modifier half or negates.) At 15th level it can use the breath weapon twice a day, but it must wait 1d6 rounds between uses.

This replaces Multiattack(one gained from animal companion table) and improved evasion.

This what I have come up with so far, I tried to make something powerful and balanced, but not game breaking. Tell me what you guys think of it, any input or suggestions is gladly welcomed and appreciated.

Greater Bloodrage: At 11th level, when a bloodrager enters a bloodrage, the morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution increases to +6 and the morale bonus on his Will saves increases to +3. In addition, upon entering a bloodrage, the bloodrager can apply the effects a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself. The spell must have a range of touch or personal. If the spell’s duration is greater than 1 round, it instead lasts for the duration of the bloodrage. This use consumes a bloodrager spell slot, as if he had cast the spell; he must have the spell slot available to take advantage of this effect.

Greater bloodrage counts as the barbarian’s greater rage ability for the purposes of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects.

True Arance bloodrage bloodline transformation spell-like ability:

You become a fighting machine – stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mindset changes so that you relish combat and you can’t cast spells, even from magic items.

You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).

You lose your spell casting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.

Lets say at 16th lvl when my pc enters his bloodrage he wants to apply the effects of a 1st lvl spell shield he knows to himself as well as the effects of the transformation spell as a spell like ability he gets from the true arcane bloodrage bloodline. Could he still do this or would there be a conflict from the bold parts of both class abilities mentioned above.

I found this faq about a Magus's Spell Combat(Ex) Ability.

Spell Combat(Ex)

At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

Faq:

Magus: When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.

I think a ruling like this justifies that the suli's elemental assault can be used with claw attacks associated with the hand.

Elemental Assault (Su) Once per day as a swift action, a suli can shroud her arms in acid, cold, electricity, or fire. This lasts for one round per level, and can be dismissed as a free action. Unarmed strikes with her arms or hands (or attacks with weapons held in those hands) deal +1d6 points of damage of the appropriate energy type.

I was wondering could a Suli PC use this with arm claw natural attacks. I know unarmed strikes do not count as natural attacks and vice versa. I know it says it works with held weapons in hand, would claws be counted as held weapons.

One option that could be interesting if you're going for a Paladin of Ragathiel would be the Virtuous Bravo Archetype, wielding a bastard sword in one hand with Precise Strike. Virtuous Bravo works just fine as a strength-based character with a mithral breastplate and buckler - the damage is quite competitive with two-handing, and the AC bonus from Nimble and a buckler completely outclasses plate. And you get Parry and Riposte...

One powerful thing about one-handing a bastard sword like that (besides how strong Precise Strike can be) is that you can use a Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf held in your buckler hand for reach on a bastard sword - neither the scarf nor buckler prevents spellcasting. The Dodging Panache ability is also very strong with reach, since you can totally out-maneuver dangerous enemies to avoid full attacks. Skillfully murdering things with Precise Strike + Smite bastard sword in one hand and a scarf-and-shield with Ragathiel's holy symbol in the other is pretty great flavor.

Sounds interesting, but I would be losing out on my mercies and my divine spell casting. I am not sure it is worth the trade.

This is what I had in mind for my stats for my PC with the racial modifiers:

Str 20(18+2)
Dex 11
Con 16
Int 10(12-2)
Wis 8
Cha 15(13+2)

I know Int is the dump stat for the bloodrager class, but if i put my lowest stat of 8 into int and then add the racial modifier into it, that would make my int a 6 and while that would not be too big a deal abilities wise, I still would not want a character with a int stat that low for rp purposes. So the only other stat I can offset this with is my wis. I know I will take a hit to my will saving throws, but my paladin class abilities can make up for that I think.

Normally I wouldn't go crossblooded archetype because of the negatives you take to your will saving throws, but as stated above my paladin class I think offsets this. Because I am gestalting and if I add +1 ability score I get every 4 lvls to my cha to make it a 16, I will have a will saving throw of +9 when I rage around lvl 12 when I take the 12th lvl Abysmal bloodline power, if I was just a normal bloodrager with no archetype my will saving throw would be +6 while bloodraging at lvl 12. This scenario does not include bonuses I would get from magic items or other outside sources out of my class abilities such as feats. As for my AC I wanna try to keep as high as possible, but since I am not planning on making a dexterous character or have a class that excels in pumping up my defense, AC is a suckers game at this point. I going to try to rely on my spells and abilities from my dual classes I get to make up the difference I will be losing to my AC when I rage.

At first I did not want the claw powers wile raging, but I decided to rethink that because with that I can get two attacks with claws instead of one attack with a two-handed weapon like a great sword until lvl 6 when your bab gets high enough to have a second attack with a manufactured weapon. Add in the abyssal power demonic bulk and my claw attacks go up to 2d6 plus my str modifier. I don't if I can add my PC's elemental assault ability to this. It says it can be used on unarmed strikes and weapons held. I don't know if natural attacks count as held weapons. I am hoping to add in a third natural attack like a bite or gore from a magic item. Some of the magic items I heard that can do this are Cloak of Fangs, Ring of Rat Fangs, or Helm of the Mammoth Lord.

Primalist is really powerful and is the best choice if I want to min max to get the most out of my pc, but I was wanting to add a little rp into my character. I have thought about some of the backstory my pc would have and him being a suli boodrager with abyssal/arcane bloodlines as well as being a paladin of Ragathiel with an oath of vengeance against large creatures/giants found in the Rise of the Runelords AP gives me alot to work with.

Wonderstell thanks for pointing out the bloodline familiar idea, don't know if I will use but it gives me one more choice to consider.

Badbird, I don't know if the gm would allow me to use a combo like that. I have looked it up and I know it is technically legal because unarmed strikes can be used with any part of the body, but the group I play with would probably say I could make a claw natural attack or an unarmed strike with a manufactured weapon as a full round attack but not both.

Thanks for all the input guys, keep it coming.

Race: Suli with mostly human alternate race trait

Classes: Bloodrager with Steelblood and Crossblooded(Abyssal/Arcane)/ Paladin of Ragathiel with Oath of Vengeance

Traits: Unscathed/??????

Considering feats: Raging Vitality, Power Attack, Reckless Rage, Arcane Strike, Extra Rage, etc...

Stats are 18, 16, 11, 13, 12, and 8 with no race bonuses/negatives added yet.

Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords

So this is a rough idea of my build. I am looking for any suggestions/advice on how I can tweak or improve my build or just for rp flavor. Any input is gladly appreciated.

You swap a creature summoned by a conjuration (summoning) spell for a creature you could summon with a summon monster or summon nature's ally spell

That's the text stating that any creature you choose from the summon monster or summon nature's ally spell list is still subject to the same restrictions as if you used that very same spell to summon the creature itself.

One a side note if you can get your GM to approve getting wish this way then be my guest, but no good GM worth their salt would allow this.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Mount is not a variable summon monster spell. Alter Summon Monster can only change a monster into another choice allowed by the spell.

Mount HAS no other choices to be switched into.

Here is the text of the spell.

You swap a creature summoned by a conjuration (summoning) spell for a creature you could summon with a summon monster or summon nature's ally spell. The new creature must be an option from a spell of the same level or lower as the spell that summoned the target. The new creature cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support it. The target can attempt a Will saving throw to negate this effect, but if the target is under your control, it receives no saving throw. Alter summoned monster does not alter the duration of the spell that summoned the target, nor does it affect any additional creatures summoned by the same spell as the target. The new creature has the same conditions and amount of damage as the target creature, and remains affected by all curses, diseases, poisons, and penalties that affected the target, but no other spells or effects carry over. Alter summoned monster is a spell of the same alignment type or types as the creature for which you exchange the target. An eidolon can't be targeted by this spell.

You swap a creature from a conjuration summoning spell (which mount is) for a creature that you could summon with a summon monster spell of the same level or lower.

I am not seeing any requirements that the original spell be a variable summon monster spell. Where are you reading that?

Your basically swapping out for a creature of the same lvl or lower from the summon monster/summon nature ally's list. That means its under the same restrictions as if you would have summoned the creature actually using one of those spells. That means no using it to summon other creatures, teleporting/plane shifting and most importantly no wishes.

My DM, gave me his ruling already I get the bonus the divine hunter archetype would get for taking the animal domain. Thanks for all the replies guys.

OK, I am making a Sacred Humtmaster Inquisitor as a backup character for a home game of the AP of Giant Slayer. I am thinking of taking the animal domain to beef up the the animal companion I get from the sacred huntmaster archetype. I know the levels stack to determine my effective druid lvl for my animal companion's lvl. I remember reading that paizo came out with a ruling/errata that said an animal companion's max lvl can only be the PC's druid lvl + 1. But I can't find it anywhere. I was just wondering if it is true or not and if it is, could someone tell me where to find it at.

swordfalcon wrote:

supervillan wrote:

Dastis wrote:

supervillan wrote:

Dastis wrote:

If your ok with it not being an ioun stone a +1 training spiked gauntlet is 8301gp. Otherwise could lower the price a little bit and call it an ioun stone

Edit: Training enchant: +1 cost. Gives the wielder access to a single combat feat decided at time of crafting so long as the wielder otherwise qualifies for the feat

Is this a published item or enchantment? Seems rather strong to me and I cannot locate it.

Inner Sea Intrigue. Limited by that the feats do not qualify as prequisits and they are a flat +bonus to grant a combat feat limiting their use greatly

Brand new stuff. Interesting. I predict many +1 training spiked gauntlets, cestii, shield spikes and armour spikes in our futures.

Aside from it not being PFS legal, can you have something like +1 training spiked gauntlet(s) equipped and still get the benefit of the ability along with wielding a two handed weapon like a great sword. I read up on the ability in Inner Sea Intrigue and in the description it said a training weapon grants one combat feat to the wielder as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand. So the question is would a spiked gauntlet be considered drawn and in hand when also wielding a two handed weapon like a great sword. And do feats like power attack and combat reflexes qualify as usable feats for this +1 ability.

Debatable.... I've seen arguements from the defending/guardian enchant and there is no RAW definition of wielded. In other words ask a DM or if you want a rules debate start a thread on the rules section

OK, I came to the same conclusion just wanted to make sure, but can power attack and combat reflexes qualify as feats to be chosen for the training ability. One of your comments earlier made me want to make sure I was reading the description of the ability right.

Dastis wrote:

supervillan wrote:

Dastis wrote:

If your ok with it not being an ioun stone a +1 training spiked gauntlet is 8301gp. Otherwise could lower the price a little bit and call it an ioun stone

Edit: Training enchant: +1 cost. Gives the wielder access to a single combat feat decided at time of crafting so long as the wielder otherwise qualifies for the feat

Is this a published item or enchantment? Seems rather strong to me and I cannot locate it.

Inner Sea Intrigue. Limited by that the feats do not qualify as prequisits and they are a flat +bonus to grant a combat feat limiting their use greatly

Brand new stuff. Interesting. I predict many +1 training spiked gauntlets, cestii, shield spikes and armour spikes in our futures.

Aside from it not being PFS legal, can you have something like +1 training spiked gauntlet(s) equipped and still get the benefit of the ability along with wielding a two handed weapon like a great sword. I read up on the ability in Inner Sea Intrigue and in the description it said a training weapon grants one combat feat to the wielder as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand. So the question is would a spiked gauntlet be considered drawn and in hand when also wielding a two handed weapon like a great sword. And do feats like power attack and combat reflexes qualify as usable feats for this +1 ability.

Lady-J wrote:

cant wear armor as a synthesist

Ah, Synthesist. Missed that.

Anyhow, considering that you can take Dual-Cursed Oracle and use Extra Revelation to grab the incredibly powerful Misfortune Revelation, I'd say Oracle is a very strong dip option as well. Using Misfortune to break saving throws and thwart crits and such with immediate actions is pretty nuts.

You can wear armor as a synthesist, but when you are fused with your eidolon you lose the benefits of your armor.

Is there any chance you can gain three mythic ranks and pick up the Beyond Morality power?

I know... A little too iffy...

No mythic powers for this AP or campaign.

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to arrest your Eidolon's development and slow down your access to higher level spells to get CHA to AC? Your AC should already be quite high, your Hp should be through the roof and you get a sweet bonus to saves, and that's before any spells you use to buff yourself. Those extra Evo points could be used to get Improved Natural Armor if you're really bothered, or Ability Increase (Dex), all increases to AC without dipping a level in something else. Generally speaking, Dipping levels as a summoner is a bad idea.

True, like I said I get charisma to AC, a free bonus feat, and +1 bab for just one lvl dip into monk. I think it would be worth it. Also my saves are not that good, I don't get my eidolon's saving throw stats, just the summoners(5 for fort, 5 for reflex, and 6 for will at lvl 5 right now.) And they kinda of nerfed the unchained eidolon's evolutions a bit too. One example would be the large evolution. I have a 28 AC(with mage armor) right now at 5th lvl, but for some reason my gm has a way of hitting me even with that high of defense. Most of the AC items we find are going to the other characters who have a lower AC then me. Haven't had a chance to buy any yet either.

swordfalcon wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

play with a dm that things alignment restrictions are bull s+&*(which they are) problem solved

My DM/GM is cool, he has already house ruled on a couple of things. I just wanted to check if there is a legal way to multiclass into monk given my circumstances, before asking him

also if you dont have evasion you could go one extra level and get evasion from the unchained monk plus a bonus feat

Already have it from my eidolon for being a synthesist.

play with a dm that things alignment restrictions are bull s+&*(which they are) problem solved

My DM/GM is cool, he has already house ruled on a couple of things. I just wanted to check if there is a legal way to multiclass into monk given my circumstances, before asking him

swordfalcon wrote:

quibblemuch wrote:

If you're looking for Charisma to AC, consider an oracle with the Lore or Nature mysteries.

Yeah this could be an option too, but again I am going by what I am giving up if I mulitclass. lvl dipping can be powerful but also costly at the same time. Stunning fist unchained monk offered full bab, charisma to AC, and a bonus feat for one lvl dip. Well worth it in my opinion. Oracle not so much compared to what I have to give up.

You could try the shenanigans of talking your GM into letting you somehow apply the Martial Artist archetype to the Unchained Monk as well as the Scaled Fist.

But let's be clear--it is shenanigans. Total. Shenanigans.

both scaled fist and the martial artist archetype are not compatible with each other. I might as well ask my gm to lift the alignment restriction instead.

If you're looking for Charisma to AC, consider an oracle with the Lore or Nature mysteries.

Yeah this could be an option too, but again I am going by what I am giving up if I mulitclass. lvl dipping can be powerful but also costly at the same time. Stunning fist unchained monk offered full bab, charisma to AC, and a bonus feat for one lvl dip. Well worth it in my opinion. Oracle not so much compared to what I have to give up.

I am assuming your are talking about the

Enlightened Warrior (Aasimar)

You have always found it easy to maintain inner peace and enlightenment that translate well to the battlefield.

Benefit: You may take levels in monk even while maintaining a neutral or neutral good alignment.

Not as a Half-Elf, not for Chaotic Neutral, and not for Unchained Monk. If two of these were different I could offer options.

Why the dip? You may be able to get some of the benefits elsewhere.

Charisma to AC, I am playing an unchained summoner synthesist with an azata eidolon, I could change my alignment to chaotic good or neutral good and still keep my eidolon. GM approved this for a home campaign.

Title says it all. I am playing as a half-elf whose alignment is chaotic neutral. Would love to take a lvl dip into the unchained monk with the scaled fist archetype. But monks can only be lawful. The PC is already at 5th lvl. Is there any way around this.

It seems to contradict itself somewhat. In the summon guardian feat it says you can select one creature that qualifies to be an improved familiar, and apply the guardian spirit template (see below) to it. That creature is added to either your summon monster III or summon nature’s ally III list as a summonable creature.

But in the creating a guardian spirit section it says "guardian spirit" is an acquired template that can be added to any fey or outsider that qualifies to become a familiar through the Improved Familiar feat (this template does not make it a familiar, however). A guardian spirit uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. A guardian spirit has a rune on its forehead similar to that on an eidolon (though its ward does not gain a matching rune).

This seems to conflict with what the feat that states by saying any creature that qualifies for the improved familiar feat(not just fey or outsider types) can become a guardian spirit.

And what about the Guardian Spirit, Guardian Spirit Imp, can that be used as an option for the feat, because it stats and powers seem way better than any creature form the improved familiar list.

I'm having problems finding details of this feat.

Is it in the psrd? Any idea if it's pfs legal?

Its in the Monster Summoner's Handbook pgs26-27

I am playing a half-elf synthesist unchained summoner with an azata eidolon. I am planning on taking the large evolution at 8th lvl and the upgrade to huge at 13th lvl. I am mainly planing to be my parities' meat shield through the AP we are playing, Giant Slayer, name says it all. I know there will be alot of room because we are fighting giant creatures, but I know at times am not going to be able use my huge hulking fused eidolon form and want to rely on my summon monster sla instead. I recently came across the feat summon guardian spirit and since I am a summoner I meet the prerequisites to take it. I wondering if it was worth it or not compared to the other summon creatures i can get thorough the normal summon monster spell. I can choose any fey or outsider that qualifies to become a familiar through the improved familiar feat. Are there any other restrictions to this that I am forgetting if I choose this feat.

OK, my character(synthesist summoner) casts the spell, summon eidolon, along with a rod of giant summoning in his other had. My PC has the augment summoning feat as well.

So I was wondering if all the buffs and effects from summoning eidolon+rod of giant summoing+augment summoning feat stack.

And if they do I have a question about the Simple Template: Giant (CR +1)

Quick Rules: +2 to all rolls based on Str or Con, +2 hp/HD, –1 penalty on all rolls based on Dex.

Rebuild Rules: Size increase by one category; AC increase natural armor by +3; Attacks increase dice rolled by 1 step; Ability Scores +4 size bonus to Str and Con, –2 Dex.

If my GM lets me use the rebuild rules instead of the quick rules does the AC increase of natural armor by +3 stack with the natural armor the eidolon already has or does it count as coming from a different source and will not stack with the eidolon's natural armor bonus it has already.

OK, I got this. This is all first party, Paizo, and no rolling or favorable conditions for this to happen. First off you want to play vanilla/unchained summoner with the Synthesist Archetype. I would choose half-elf for the class race for the favored class bonus 1/4 evolution point. Then by 13th level you want both Weapon Training(4 evolution points) for proficiency with your favored martial weapon and then the Large evolution to go huge size(10 evolution points). After that your going to want +1 Impact magic weapon, since everyone is using great sword we will go with a +1 Impact great sword. Then during battle you have your Summoner Synthesist cast enlarge person on himself making him gargantuan. Being gargantuan plus having an impact weapon will put you into dealing colossal weapon size damage. If you are using a great sword that is 8d6 worth of damage, add in the vital strike feat chain to increase it and have boat loads of fun.

P.S. Dipping into other classes, certain specific magic items from other APs, and other items I am not aware maybe able to increase the weapon size or damage dice of the weapon.

edit, for all intents and purposes I forgot to mention it would be a huge +1 impact weapon for the initial size of the weapon when wielded by the Synthisest at 13th lvl. But if you are looking for how to transport the melee weapon when you are not in your fused eidolon armor, look into the magic weapon special abilities: Resizing(Giant Hunter's Handbook) or Shrinking(Melee Tactics Toolbox.) Both are flat cost magic bonuses and will not eat into +10 enhancement bonus cap for weapons.

OK, I got this. This is all first party, Paizo, and no rolling or favorable conditions for this to happen. First off you want to play vanilla/unchained summoner with the Synthesist Archetype. I would choose half-elf for the class race for the favored class bonus 1/4 evolution point. Then by 13th level you want both Weapon Training(4 evolution points) for proficiency with your favored martial weapon and then the Large evolution to go huge size(10 evolution points). After that your going to want +1 Impact magic weapon, since everyone is using great sword we will go with a +1 Impact great sword. Then during battle you have your Summoner Synthesist cast enlarge person on himself making him gargantuan. Being gargantuan plus having an impact weapon will put you into dealing colossal weapon size damage. If you are using a great sword that is 8d6 worth of damage, add in the vital strike feat chain to increase it and have boat loads of fun.

P.S. Dipping into other classes, certain specific magic items from other APs, and other items I am not aware maybe able to increase the weapon size or damage dice of the weapon.

Please use spoiler tags if you're talking about the AP -- if you can still edit your description of what happened, you should do so.

As the others mentioned, layer your defenses and probably send in summons before armoring up to go toe to toe with giants. I know the one you fought; it's pretty representative of what you can expect. Fighting smarter is usually a better option than trying to go head to head with a giant.

As for specific Giantslayer advice, definitely learn to pace yourself appropriately. This AP can really push even an optimized party.

Alright, thank you for the advice, I will do spoiler tags in the future should I reference any specific part of an AP.

What feats do you have so far? What are your ability scores?

My half-elf stats are:

STR 12 (17)
DEX 08 (13)
CON 12 (13)
INT 15
WIS 11
CHA 20

() represents those replaced with the eidolon's stats

Traits(our gm allowed us 3 traits total, 2 regular and 1 campaign)

1. Artifact Hunter (Giant Slayer trait)
2. Eleven Reflexes
3. Axe to Grind

The feats I have so far and will take in the future, I am 3rd lvl right now.

1. Scion of War, Skill Focus: Perception(half-elf bonus feat)
3. Arcane Strike
5. Power Attack
7. Spell Focus Conjuration
9. Augment Summoning
11. ??????

what is your characters con? you know you can negate some damage by taking it yourself.

yeah, the fused link ability, which only kicks in when the temporary hits I get from the eidolon would reduced to 0. I used it a couple of times, its just on the last orc in the wave my gm rolled and confirmed a critical for around 24-28 at the time and that went through all the summoner's and temporary hp I get from the eidolon at the time. To be fair I enlarged my PC and took all the aggro for my team, which at the time we were at lvl 2. The rest of my group at the time stayed back and did range attacks. I think I went through a total of 15-17 attacks from the group of orcs with most of them missing due to my high AC at the time. I took one regular hit from one and then later on my gm got a confirmed critical hit on the last orc before it was killed. We have a druid with a big cat animal companion that helped with close combat, but was taken out even earlier than me because our gm confirmed a critical with 30 damage against it. It would have died had our gm not been generous and allowed the druid to use his only hero point to stabilize the big cat. Our GM has a way of criting at the worst times, but it makes the games fun and interesting.

Wait, your 3rd level and fighting giants? Even one giant? Hope it was the boss fight for the end of the module. Damned bet that was rough.

Unfortunately, no it was not the last part of the fight/battle, we still have another couple of pages according to our GM We are playing part one of Giant Slayer Campaign, Battle of Bloodmarch Hill. We are at the part were orcs are raiding and laying siege to the town we are in.

It has been one drawn out battle, I lost my eidolon armor along time ago to three waves of orcs, around 12 orcs total. My PC took many hits like a champ, but my GM rolled and confirmed a critical for the last orc against me before it was killed by the rest of my party. My eidolon was dismissed because of 0 hp and I was knocked unconscious and stabilized later on. Since then I have relied on my 1st lvl spells like grease and my summon monster sla. During the battles with other orcs and the giant I have either been greasing, summoning meat shields, and shooting from the back with either a sling or a crossbow. After being told of some of the attack roll totals the giant was getting and how many hits it took to down, I started to realize how hard it is to battle a giant in direct melee. To make it even worse our GM told us after the battle, that the giant was wounded and was not at 100% because of the all the resolve points we earned by killing orcs, rescuing, and helping the people of the town we are in. He said the fight would have been much harder had we skipped alot of areas and not done the things we had done.

But shortly after we defeated the giant, one of the npcs told us that orcs had broken through a wall and found an entrance to something and ask us to pursue them. I couldn't help but groan considering that after the giant fight I had burned through all my 1st lvl spells and only have one use left of my summon monster ability. The rest of my party is in a similar situation, about the only one who is still just as effective as they were at the start of the battle would be our archer paladin, although he did use his only smite evil on the giant we just fought. I was hoping we would get a rest, but our GM said no. But to be fair he did allow us to lvl up during the event mid battle and use the additional spells and abilities we got from the lvl up. He also allowed a friend, a member of our previous pathfinder group from a couple years ago, to play a guest PC for the ap at our last session since he is leaving town soon, you know one last hooray. It was a life oracle with the burning hands curse. I helped build the character, and I must say it turned out more potent than I expected. He saved our four man group numerous times with his healing healing and also blew up alot of orcs with his burning hands because they were all carrying alchemist bombs and his fire set them off. At one point he almost blew himself up. That was a great session. I just hope our party survives this last part.

Alright, after some searching I found this thread quote from James Jacobs, Creative Director at Paizo, concerning the matter.

As written, no; those spells only allow for the summoning of celestial or fiendish creatures. Obviously that's because the entropic and resolute templates were invented a few years AFTER we published the Core Rulebook.

So, from his point of view, it's not unreasonable to allow those templates to be applied as a house rule, but since the books came on different times, they simply couldn't replace what was written on the core rulebook to allow you to summon creatures with the entropic or resolute templates.

So I guess this answers my question. Again, thank you guys for replying to my post.

I believe it would be entropic, as the "Chaotic" component of your alignment is specific as to the more general "Neutral". That is how I would rule, anyway.

That really doesn't make much sense, because if we went by that reasoning, that means a chaotic good character could only summon monsters with the entropic template and lawful good characters could only summon monsters with the resolute template. That means only vanilla good and evil aligned characters could summon monsters with the celestial and fiendish templates.

OK, I am playing a summoner and his alignment is chaotic neutral.

This creature is summoned with the celestial template if you are good, the entropic template if you are chaotic, the fiendish template if you are evil, or the resolute template if you are lawful; you may choose any if you are neutral.

Based on this what template do I apply to my summoned creatures when I summon them via my SLA.

Alright I am an half-elf unchained synthesist with an azata eidolon. My group is playing the giant slayer ap. We are almost done with the first book, but my group fought a giant during our last battle and I realized how hard it was to actually fight one directly in melee given that giants have such high str modifiers giving them pretty good bonuses to their attack roles as well as having a high pool of hp. My syntheist has a decent 21 AC right at 3rd lvl and it will go up 23 at 4th lvl and I could have a maximum of 28 AC at 5th lvl. This includes all my natural armor, the spell mage armor, 2 points in improved natural armor evolution, dex modifier, and the synthesist's shielded meld ability.

I was wondering if their was any other way to up my AC even more.
I know of the spell Shield that summoners get as a 1st lvl spell, but I will already be getting a shield bonus from the Shielded meld ability and it will not stack with the spell and the spell's duration is not that long either. I am limited on how many spells I can use a day and to me it is not worth it. I know of items like amulet of natural armor and ring of protection and will get both as soon as I have the chance.

Also what is the best way to fight a giant in close combat with out getting your butt handed to you after a few turns. I looked it up and about the best advice I could find was to fight them at a distance, one of my teammates has this covered because he is an archer paladin. But my role is to tank for the team, so I need advice for fighting giants close up.

Thanks for all the input and advice guys. I think I still will be taking arcane strike and power attack at 3rd and 5th lvls. After that I will start taking at least spell focus conjuration and augment summoning at 7th and 9th lvl. The reason being is that I am a synthesist after all, if I took summoning feats any earlier I might as well be playing a regular unchained summoner. Still on the fence about superior summoning though.

As for keeping track of the summoned creatures' stats. I have found this site called Summoner's Scribe. It has all the regular creatures stats for summon monster and summon nature's ally spells. It even includes options for applying the bonuses you get from the augment summoning feat as well as the templates you get from others. All I need at the table is my iPad to look up the stats.

I am playing a half-elf unchained summoner synthesist with an azata eidolon in the Giant Slayer AP. I have already taken Scion of War for my first feat because I have +5 ability score in my charisma. I plan on taking arcane strike and power attack for my 3rd and 5th lvl feats. My party consists of a dwarf druid with a big cat animal companion, an elf unlettered arcanist with a hare familiar, and a Divine Hunter Paladin. Our group just hit lvl 3 so I am still deciding on my 3rd lvl feat and spell.

My role in the party is basically the melee/tank build. I am basically supposed to take all the aggro and damage for my team. The druid and his animal comapion will probably be helping with this later on after they get a few more lvls under their belt. My AC is pretty decent and I will have around 28-30 AC by the time I reach 5th lvl, and if I take arcane strike and power attack I should be able to dish out the damage too.

But as of right now I am in a bit of a conundrum. At a previous play session my group was attacked by a big wave of orcs, my PC took all the hits like a champ, many of the rolls my DM was rolling was missing my synthesist because of his 21 AC. But wouldn't you know it, my DM rolled and confirmed a crit on the last roll and knocked my synthesist unconscious. He was later stabilized and healed, but he could no longer summon his eidolon for the rest of the day. I had to use his summon monster ability for the rest of the day. I can summon up to 8 times a day thanks to having a high charisma modifier. Surprisingly I am finding my PC's summon monster ability to be more useful than what I thought it would be since I was planning on having my PC stay in his eidolon suit as much he can.

I plan on having my synthesist take the large evolution at 8th lvl and then going huge when he hits lvl 13. Right now my group does not have a dedicated healer, but as I was looking up more of the monsters my PC can summon as he lvls up I am seeing a lot of the creatures have healing abilities my party can capitalize on and use. I know by going huge my PC will not be able to wear his eidolon suit all the time due to the size constraint in small areas and dungeons and will have to rely on the summon eidolon spell to get it when my PC needs the eidolon suit. This means I will be relying more on the summon monster ability. Both of these will benefit if I take augment summoning which requires me to take spell focus conjuration. Plus superior summoning will be nice too. This will both make the eidolon suit and my summons stronger. I also realized spells like grease and glitterdust will benefit from this too because of the higher DC save thanks to spell focus conjuration.

But my synthesist is also a biped that uses a manufactured weapon as his primary weapon. By taking the dimensional agility feat tree which my PC will start qualifying for at 7th lvl thanks to the maker's jump ability he gets at lvl 6th. After getting Dimensional Dervish my PC will have the equivalent of a teleporting pounce ability, which in my opinion is pretty broken.

Both these feat trees are powerful in their own right, I am just trying to decide which would be better for my PC. The augment summoning route is a solid and safe choice with a good return versus the feat investment. As for the dimensional agility feat tree option, having a huge teleporting PC with pounce sounds cool, but when you think about the mechanic of it, I am not so sure. First off my PC only has a speed of 30ft, I can double this by casting haste on him which would effectively give a 60ft speed which when using the dimensional dervish feat would give him a total of 120ft when teleporting and attacking. I can't help but think my PC's huge size would encumber him while using this ability, so I am not quite sure how the mechanics would play out on this. I am also limited on how many times I can use it because of how many times my PC can cast dimension door a day.

So there you have it, I am posting this in hopes of which one people will convince me to take. I am also open to other ideas or suggestions. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

If you are looking for a flying animal companion via your sacred bond class feature, you could always take the paladin's Empyreal Knight archetype or maybe take feats in the Monstrous Mount feat tree which can give you a flying mount.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am playing an unchained summoner synthesist with an azata eidolon. I am mainly going to being using a manufactured weapon like a great sword for my melee attacks. I will be getting wings(free evolution) later on and thought of taking the wing buffet evolution for some secondary natural attacks, but then again when using a manufactured weapon all natural attacks are treated as secondary. I was thinking of going with another pair of arms and the slam attack to get my third natural attack, but since my GM ruled the way he did, that is a dead end now. For more info on my build and to give me any pointers on it, go here.

That one increase to INT could actually get him up to five languages; one from INT and four from the skill points that extra INT gives (assuming all in Linguistics).

That's a very quick way to grab a lot of useful languages. The four elemental tongues and whichever between Celestial, Infernal, and Abyssal that aligns with your alignment should do the trick.

I am chaotic neutral and I already have Infernal on my list. Am I restricted on what summons I can use? I know a class like cleric can only summon good-aligned monsters, but I am an arcane caster. Also does summoning alot of certain aligned creatures change my own alignment. Like if I were summon alot of evil aligned creatures would that shift my own alignment to evil or something like that.

My mental stats right now are: INT 15, WIS 11, and CHA 20. At lvl 4 I think I will take the ability increase in INT so I can learn an additional language for my summons and have more skill ranks for other stuff. My summon monster ability wont do me any good if I can't communicate with the creatures I summon. I also have the scion of war feat because my DEX is an 8 with a -1 ability modifier.

Thanks for all the tips guys, if there are any more keep them coming.

Ok I am playing a half elf synthesist unchained summoner and my wisdom score is 11 which makes my ability modifies for it a zero. Right now I am at 3rd lvl. the will save is a good saving throw for the summoner class, but I was looking for ways to increase without multicalassing, I want to stay a pure summoner. Being a half-elf summoner I get bonuses against enchantment spells so I am not worried about them. What I am worried about are fear/death and dismissal/banishment spells.

What I am looking for are items that can increase my will save or protect against the spells mentioned above.

OK, normally an eidolon would gain multiattack as a free feat at 9th lvl if it has 3 or more natural attacks, but I don't know if that applies to the Synthesist or not given what it says in the Fused Eidolon feature:

While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. The eidolon must have limbs for the synthesist to cast spells with somatic components. The eidolon’s temporary hit points can be restored with the rejuvenate eidolon spell.

Given from what the two bolded parts say, my GM has ruled that the Synthesit does not qualify for the bonus feat given by the eidolon's special ability Multiattack. I can't really argue with this either. I have searched to see if there is any official ruling on this and have come up with nothing so far. I was just wondering if there was any official errata or some kind of faq concerning this matter.

swordfalcon wrote:

Alright, this is just for future reference for anyone who may come across this thread in the future, I found this post entry, made by John Compton, Pathfinder Society Lead Developer on a thread concerning the Shaitan Binder archetype for the Unchained Summoner in PFS.

After reading it, I am still scratching my head on this and don't know what to fully think of it. After reading it the only two concrete things I can say on the whole debate we have had in this thread are:

1. The rule: unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form only applies in PFS organized play.

2. The Synthesist archetype is banned in PFS no matter which version of the summoner you use for your PC. Making the above rule kinda of moot.

Rule 1 is aimed at other archetypes besides the Synthesist. It also bans the Evolutionist archetype as well.

Sorry I edited the number 2 part of the post because I meant to say the Synthesist being banned makes the whole modify base form argument for Synethiest kinda of moot for the whole thread debate. The post I mentioned is what I was looking for when it came to the clarification of the unchained Society ruling on Summoner archetypes.

Alright, this is just for future reference for anyone who may come across this thread in the future, I found this post entry, made by John Compton, Pathfinder Society Lead Developer on a thread concerning the Shaitan Binder archetype for the Unchained Summoner in PFS.

After reading it, I am still scratching my head on this and don't know what to fully think of it. After reading it the only two concrete things I can say on the whole debate we have had in this thread are:

1. The rule: unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form only applies in PFS organized play.

2. The Synthesist archetype is banned in PFS no matter which version of the summoner you use for your PC.

I'm personally of the mindset that Synthesist "alters the eidolon's base form" in that you're now getting a suit of "armor" instead of the actual eidolon companion, but I can see the argument on the other side as well. If it came down to it, my ruling would probably be that it's allowed but you have to go with a bipedal base form and thus can only choose a subtype that allows you to have a bipedal eidolon. Which I think lets you pick anything other than protean.

I'm not inclined to side with Pathfinder Society in any case, though. Their rulings don't always make sense. Such as PFS games not allowing non-core races in the vast majority of circumstances despite most of the other races being on par with the core races. Or banning a feat with a primary effect that's arguably useless solely because it has a 5% chance of making itself useful through its secondary effect...

On-topic: Swordfalcon, if you're planning on using actual weapons rather than natural attacks, I'd almost recommend against taking the extra attacks like slams or wing buffets since everything's going to be a secondary attack. If you invest a feat into Multiattack, though, it could be worth it. Or, if your DM allows it, get a second pair of arms and dual-wield greatswords.

Skilled is always a good choice, especially for Perception since you don't have it as a class skill and your Wisdom score is low.

Ability Increase is always a good choice, but just remember that you can't boost the same score with it more than once every six levels.

Damage Reduction could be useful, though since azata eidolons get DR/evil you should be prepared for a sudden "spike" in damage whenever you fight evil outsiders. Spending your points to improve their natural armor could also help.

Fast healing is nice, but it requires a ton of evolution points to get a respectable amount.

Other than that, there's not much to recommend since they're mostly geared toward natural attacks.

Thanks for the advice, also pointing out the multi-attack feat, it seems when it comes to this the Fused Eidolon class feature seems to contradict itself, it says the eidolon has no feats of its own, but says I get the special abilities of it which gives mulit-attack as a bonus feat if I have three or more natural attacks. I will have to ask my GM on this because I have only found a couple of threads discussing this issue. Fast healing will work on my PC, but not the temporary hit points I get from my eidolin's HP, that can only be healed by Rejuvenate Eidolon spells.