Gestalt Suli Bloodrager / Paladin build for Rise of the Runelords


Advice


Race: Suli with mostly human alternate race trait

Classes: Bloodrager with Steelblood and Crossblooded(Abyssal/Arcane)/ Paladin of Ragathiel with Oath of Vengeance

Traits: Unscathed/??????

Considering feats: Raging Vitality, Power Attack, Reckless Rage, Arcane Strike, Extra Rage, etc...

Stats are 18, 16, 11, 13, 12, and 8 with no race bonuses/negatives added yet.

Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords

So this is a rough idea of my build. I am looking for any suggestions/advice on how I can tweak or improve my build or just for rp flavor. Any input is gladly appreciated.


Alright.
Crossblooded Abyssal/Arcane.

You'll definitely want to take a Bloodline Familiar instead of your first bloodline ability (unless you want to fight with claws?), and the 4th/8th/16 level Arcane powers are just too good to pass up on.

That leaves us with the 12th level Abyssal power, which is an additional +2/+4 to strength at level 12/16 (I believe the adventure path ends before level 20). For that bonus to strength, you're taking a -4 penalty to Will saves and another -2 penalty to your AC when raging.

Unless you're playing crossblooded because of flavor, I'd not recommend you to do so. A standard Arcane bloodrager with the Primalist archetype will feel much stronger, if you switch out the 12th level ability for two 12th-level rage powers.

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swordfalcon wrote:
Stats are 18, 16, 11, 13, 12, and 8 with no race bonuses/negatives added yet.

Are those stats in order? Because as a Paladin/Bloodrager you'll probably want to prioritize your stats in this order:

Str>Cha>Con>Dex=Wis=Int

You could also make a dexterity-based build if you take the Virtous Bravo Paladin archetype and pick up the Urban Bloodrager archetype. Which would help shore up your weak Reflex save.

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swordfalcon wrote:
Considering feats: Raging Vitality, Power Attack, Reckless Rage, Arcane Strike, Extra Rage, etc...

Reckless rage is gonna be at best +3 damage. Maybe take something that gives you more options like Lunge or a teamwork feat.

Also, Arcane Strike eats up your Swift Actions, which you'd really like to use for your Paladin class features. You could take Blooded Arcane Strike to automatically use Arcane Strike, but then you're paying two feats to get a minor increase to damage.

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Here's some examples of what you can do with feats if you got some to spare:

Planar Heritage (Sylph), Airy Step, Wings of Air:
Three feats, gain supernatural flying speed equal to your base speed.

Signature Skill (Intimidate), Cornugon Smash:
2 feats, can make opponents frightened/panicked/cowering with your demoralize checks, and you gain a free demoralize check every time you hit someone with power attack.

If you also take Hurtful, you'll get a Swift Action attack against those you demoralize.

Shadow Lodge

Looks like he's going for the 4th level Abyssal ability, otherwise why Crossblooded?


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Looks like he's going for the 4th level Abyssal ability, otherwise why Crossblooded?

Flavor?

I confess I didn't think about the 4th level abyssal ability, mostly because they have the Mostly Human trait, which would allow castings of Enlarge Person.


I'd be tempted to go Primalist instead of Crossblooded for Beast Totem. Primalist lets you get both the best Arcane Bloodline ability and also Claws/Armor/Pounce from Totem and another pick.

Then you could also take Blood Conduit and Two-Weapon Fighting with the combo of a one-handed weapon, unarmed strike, and claw. Smiting with a combo of TWF and natural attack is a tactical nuke, and at 12 you can pounce with it. Blood Conduit also allows swift-casting a touch spell with an unarmed strike. And any time you aren't using TWF, you can still two-hand the weapon.


This is what I had in mind for my stats for my PC with the racial modifiers:

Str 20(18+2)
Dex 11
Con 16
Int 10(12-2)
Wis 8
Cha 15(13+2)

I know Int is the dump stat for the bloodrager class, but if i put my lowest stat of 8 into int and then add the racial modifier into it, that would make my int a 6 and while that would not be too big a deal abilities wise, I still would not want a character with a int stat that low for rp purposes. So the only other stat I can offset this with is my wis. I know I will take a hit to my will saving throws, but my paladin class abilities can make up for that I think.

Normally I wouldn't go crossblooded archetype because of the negatives you take to your will saving throws, but as stated above my paladin class I think offsets this. Because I am gestalting and if I add +1 ability score I get every 4 lvls to my cha to make it a 16, I will have a will saving throw of +9 when I rage around lvl 12 when I take the 12th lvl Abysmal bloodline power, if I was just a normal bloodrager with no archetype my will saving throw would be +6 while bloodraging at lvl 12. This scenario does not include bonuses I would get from magic items or other outside sources out of my class abilities such as feats. As for my AC I wanna try to keep as high as possible, but since I am not planning on making a dexterous character or have a class that excels in pumping up my defense, AC is a suckers game at this point. I going to try to rely on my spells and abilities from my dual classes I get to make up the difference I will be losing to my AC when I rage.

At first I did not want the claw powers wile raging, but I decided to rethink that because with that I can get two attacks with claws instead of one attack with a two-handed weapon like a great sword until lvl 6 when your bab gets high enough to have a second attack with a manufactured weapon. Add in the abyssal power demonic bulk and my claw attacks go up to 2d6 plus my str modifier. I don't if I can add my PC's elemental assault ability to this. It says it can be used on unarmed strikes and weapons held. I don't know if natural attacks count as held weapons. I am hoping to add in a third natural attack like a bite or gore from a magic item. Some of the magic items I heard that can do this are Cloak of Fangs, Ring of Rat Fangs, or Helm of the Mammoth Lord.

Primalist is really powerful and is the best choice if I want to min max to get the most out of my pc, but I was wanting to add a little rp into my character. I have thought about some of the backstory my pc would have and him being a suli boodrager with abyssal/arcane bloodlines as well as being a paladin of Ragathiel with an oath of vengeance against large creatures/giants found in the Rise of the Runelords AP gives me alot to work with.

Wonderstell thanks for pointing out the bloodline familiar idea, don't know if I will use but it gives me one more choice to consider.

Badbird, I don't know if the gm would allow me to use a combo like that. I have looked it up and I know it is technically legal because unarmed strikes can be used with any part of the body, but the group I play with would probably say I could make a claw natural attack or an unarmed strike with a manufactured weapon as a full round attack but not both.

Thanks for all the input guys, keep it coming.


One option that could be interesting if you're going for a Paladin of Ragathiel would be the Virtuous Bravo Archetype, wielding a bastard sword in one hand with Precise Strike. Virtuous Bravo works just fine as a strength-based character with a mithral breastplate and buckler - the damage is quite competitive with two-handing, and the AC bonus from Nimble and a buckler completely outclasses plate. And you get Parry and Riposte...

One powerful thing about one-handing a bastard sword like that (besides how strong Precise Strike can be) is that you can use a Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf held in your buckler hand for reach on a bastard sword - neither the scarf nor buckler prevents spellcasting. The Dodging Panache ability is also very strong with reach, since you can totally out-maneuver dangerous enemies to avoid full attacks. Skillfully murdering things with Precise Strike + Smite bastard sword in one hand and a scarf-and-shield with Ragathiel's holy symbol in the other is pretty great flavor.


BadBird wrote:

One option that could be interesting if you're going for a Paladin of Ragathiel would be the Virtuous Bravo Archetype, wielding a bastard sword in one hand with Precise Strike. Virtuous Bravo works just fine as a strength-based character with a mithral breastplate and buckler - the damage is quite competitive with two-handing, and the AC bonus from Nimble and a buckler completely outclasses plate. And you get Parry and Riposte...

One powerful thing about one-handing a bastard sword like that (besides how strong Precise Strike can be) is that you can use a Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf held in your buckler hand for reach on a bastard sword - neither the scarf nor buckler prevents spellcasting. The Dodging Panache ability is also very strong with reach, since you can totally out-maneuver dangerous enemies to avoid full attacks. Skillfully murdering things with Precise Strike + Smite bastard sword in one hand and a scarf-and-shield with Ragathiel's holy symbol in the other is pretty great flavor.

Sounds interesting, but I would be losing out on my mercies and my divine spell casting. I am not sure it is worth the trade.


I think the only safe judgement on 'better' is that it's more interesting tactically.

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