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UnArcaneElection |
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![Magnifying glass](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Plot-glass.jpg)
Interesting contrast between the original Player's Guide and this blog post with respect to Paladins:
Paladins
Korvosa is an extremely lawful city, but one that isn’t as interested, as a general rule, in the purpose of the law as much as its application. If anything, the city government’s often impartial stance on matters regarding the law skew the general feel toward evil. As a result, most paladins find Korvosa too stifling a place for them, and they often grow frustrated with the city’s overwhelming bureaucracy and willingness to accept things like the Hellknight Order of the Nail or the church of Asmodeus in the city. Most of Korvosa’s paladins ally with the church of Abadar and the Korvosan Guard, figuring that to be where they can do the most good.
The part I italicized above contrasts with the part I italicized below:
Paladin: Paladins are an excellent choice for Curse of the Crimson Throne—with one caveat: do not let the lawful portion of your alignment rule your play choices. Things rapidly get out of control and go bad in Korvosa as the campaign unfolds, and your paladin's choices should put her or him firmly on the side of the PCs. Speak to your GM before playing a paladin in this game. As a general rule, it's probably better to play a paladin of a neutral good deity than of a lawful neutral deity in Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Not that I'm complaining, but I wonder what stimulated this change?
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![James Jacobs](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/private/JamesJacobs.jpg)
Interesting contrast between the original Player's Guide and this blog post with respect to Paladins:
Original Player's Guide wrote:Paladins
Korvosa is an extremely lawful city, but one that isn’t as interested, as a general rule, in the purpose of the law as much as its application. If anything, the city government’s often impartial stance on matters regarding the law skew the general feel toward evil. As a result, most paladins find Korvosa too stifling a place for them, and they often grow frustrated with the city’s overwhelming bureaucracy and willingness to accept things like the Hellknight Order of the Nail or the church of Asmodeus in the city. Most of Korvosa’s paladins ally with the church of Abadar and the Korvosan Guard, figuring that to be where they can do the most good.The part I italicized above contrasts with the part I italicized below:
This blog post wrote:Paladin: Paladins are an excellent choice for Curse of the Crimson Throne—with one caveat: do not let the lawful portion of your alignment rule your play choices. Things rapidly get out of control and go bad in Korvosa as the campaign unfolds, and your paladin's choices should put her or him firmly on the side of the PCs. Speak to your GM before playing a paladin in this game. As a general rule, it's probably better to play a paladin of a neutral good deity than of a lawful neutral deity in Curse of the Crimson Throne.Not that I'm complaining, but I wonder what stimulated this change?
What stimulated this change is the simple fact that an Abadarian paladin skews MUCH more toward law than good, and when it comes to an Adventure Path where the PCs are put at odds with the lawful ruler of the land, a paladin needs to be able to "unclench" on the law side and go with the good side instead. Paladins of neutral good deities are better at that role than paladins of lawful neutral deities.
The original Player's Guide also kinda is illogical in implying that paladins would ally with a non-good deity because "that's where they can do the most good." Abadar's burrecratic stuff makes it more difficult on average for a paladin to do good than a paladin of a neutral good, or even a lawful good deity.
AKA: We've gotten better at understanding our own creations over the course of a decade.
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Diachronos |
We've gotten better at understanding our own creations over the course of a decade
In your defense, D&D's supplemental materials on how good-aligned characters, especially paladins, "should" act didn't make much sense, seeing as they seemed to believe that even the most minor evil act should result in a paladin falling.
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![James Jacobs](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/private/JamesJacobs.jpg)
James Jacobs wrote:We've gotten better at understanding our own creations over the course of a decadeIn your defense, D&D's supplemental materials on how good-aligned characters, especially paladins, "should" act didn't make much sense, seeing as they seemed to believe that even the most minor evil act should result in a paladin falling.
I think that interpretation was as much, if not MOSTLY on the shoulders of the deadly combination of GMs and non-paladin fellow PCs who were excited to see a paladin fall from grace.
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Bellona |
![Vaarsuvius](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Avatar_V.jpg)
Are the Dockside Avenger and Varisian Immunity traits (from the Player Companion for Varisia) still valid for for CotCT?
Incidentally, the Varisian Immunity trait puzzles me a bit. It mentions two diseases, but isn't one of them specific to a certain location (one not visited in this AP) and the other one a new "invention"? (Not to mention the fact that just listing them is a bit of a spoiler.)
Anyway, I'm very glad to see the updated traits, plus some common sense tips for incoming players.
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![Seoni](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9250-Seoni_90.jpeg)
Are the Dockside Avenger and Varisian Immunity traits (from the Player Companion for Varisia) are still valid for for CotCT?
Incidentally, the Varisian Immunity trait puzzles me a bit. It mentions two diseases, but isn't one of them specific to a certain location (one not visited in this AP) and the other one a new "invention"? (Not to mention the fact that just listing them is a bit of a spoiler.)
Anyway, I'm very glad to see the updated traits, plus some common sense tips for incoming players.
They're still relatively usable, with some work from the GM. I wouldn't, though.
Varisian Immunity has always bothered me, for those and other reasons. It does make sense if you know the entire context, though.
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![Seoni](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9250-Seoni_90.jpeg)
Regarding the old CotCT player's guide (from 3.5): have all the feats been "pathfinderised" and/or replaced by archetypes? Specifically, I'm trying to remember if the Acadamae Graduate feat has been updated.
If you give me a list, I can confirm each of them. (I'm away from my copy of the guide.)
Acadamae Graduate has not been updated to Pathfinder.
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Bellona |
![Vaarsuvius](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Avatar_V.jpg)
Sable Company Marine (3.5 version of CotCT PG, p. 6): probably replaced by the archetype in ISCombat (although that connection is discouraged in the new player's guide).
Shingle Runner (p. 6): ???? (I'm sure that I saw this somewhere else in its PF version).
Crossbow Mastery (p. 10): now in the APG.
Acadamae Graduate (p. 11): ????
Harrowed (p. 14): now in the ISWG.
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![Areelu Vorlesh](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9078-Areelu_500.jpeg)
I love the new version of Love Lost, especially since it fixes something that always annoyed me.
The original didn't mention the price of the ring so I found it aggravating that you couldn't get the ring back despite most characters starting with over 100g, how f&%~ing expensive is that ring?!?!
And now we know.
Ugh, frickin expensive ass ring, or more likely it's an heirloom as well.
That or the merchant is just being a cruel dick for charging that much.
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![Scarecrow](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9032-Scarecrow.jpg)
Hey everyone! Don't forget there are two other campaign traits that show up in Player Companion: Varisia, Birthplace of Legends:
CURSE OF THE CRIMSON THRONE
Characters created for this campaign begin play in the city of Korvosa and should have a reason to hate the criminal Gaedren Lamm.
Dockside Avenger: No crime is too despicable for Gaedren Lamm and his thugs—a gang of lowlife murderers, kidnappers, and drug dealers that operate in Korvosa’s Midland district. You’ve lost someone to Lamm and now you’re out for revenge. While Lamm remains alive and free, you are not slain until your hit point total reaches a negative number equal to your Constitution score + 3. Once Lamm is imprisoned or killed, you lose the former benefit but gain 3 permanent hit points.
Varisian Immunity: Your family is particularly hearty, and has even passed down tales of a Varisian ancestor who sought to cure (or, some loose-lipped relatives say, create) diseases. You gain a +1 trait bonus on saving throws made to resist diseases. Additionally, you are immune to the diseases Vorel’s phage and blood veil. You do not need to be of the Varisian ethnicity to take this campaign trait, but if you’re not, your background should explain how you have a Varisian ancestor.
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Feros |
![Div, Sepid](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PF23-15.jpg)
Dockside Avenger seems linked to Love Lost, so it would still be good.
Varisian Immunity isn't connected to Lamm, so would requires some work. I'd tie it to Unhappy Childhood and run it like this:
Your family's resistance to disease was of great use to Gaedren Lamm as sick houses were often easy to enter and leave with valuables either because of healers coming and going or nosy neighbours avoiding the place. Your luck eventually ran out and you succumbed to a deadly illness. Lamm threw you aside and left you to rot in an alleyway. Yet your resilience managed to keep you alive and when you recovered you found yourself free of Lamm and his abuses.
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PunkPrincess |
![Shelyn](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9050-Shelyn_90.jpeg)
I'm actually kinda disappointed by the Campaign Traits personally. I've grown used to Campaigns giving traits that are mechanically different, exciting, and usually a little more powerful than normal traits. This one being entirely static +1 bonuses to things was... Quite a bummer. Still looking forward to playing it though.
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![James Jacobs](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/private/JamesJacobs.jpg)
Are the Dockside Avenger and Varisian Immunity traits (from the Player Companion for Varisia) still valid for for CotCT?
Incidentally, the Varisian Immunity trait puzzles me a bit. It mentions two diseases, but isn't one of them specific to a certain location (one not visited in this AP) and the other one a new "invention"? (Not to mention the fact that just listing them is a bit of a spoiler.)
Anyway, I'm very glad to see the updated traits, plus some common sense tips for incoming players.
Dockside Avenger and Varisian Immunity are not official Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign traits. I wouldn't recommend using them as such, and instead suggest you use the campaign traits from the new hardcover, since those traits are hardcoded into the text and have in-game resolutions and rewards built in to the adventure.
The Varisian Immunity trait is indeed a big spoiler, and it shouldn't have been written in the way it was written.
If you DO want to use these traits, treat them as regional traits, not Campaign Traits, I guess.
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![James Jacobs](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/private/JamesJacobs.jpg)
Sable Company Marine (3.5 version of CotCT PG, p. 6): probably replaced by the archetype in ISCombat (although that connection is discouraged in the new player's guide).
Shingle Runner (p. 6): ???? (I'm sure that I saw this somewhere else in its PF version).
Crossbow Mastery (p. 10): now in the APG.
Acadamae Graduate (p. 11): ????
Harrowed (p. 14): now in the ISWG.
Since the Acadamae doesn't play a role in Curse of the Crimson Throne, an Acadamae themed feat is probably a poor choice, since that sets up a player with the hope that his links to the Acadamae might have a chance to be explored in the game, when they won't be. It feels a little bait-and-switchy to me. If you DO let a player take this feat in your game, either manage expectations or do some adjustment to bring the Acadamae's role in further... but given certain plot elements in the AP, this could be tricky.
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![Scarecrow](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9032-Scarecrow.jpg)
Dockside Avenger seems linked to Love Lost, so it would still be good.
Varisian Immunity isn't connected to Lamm, so would requires some work. I'd tie it to Unhappy Childhood and run it like this:
Your family's resistance to disease was of great use to Gaedren Lamm as sick houses were often easy to enter and leave with valuables either because of healers coming and going or nosy neighbours avoiding the place. Your luck eventually ran out and you succumbed to a deadly illness. Lamm threw you aside and left you to rot in an alleyway. Yet your resilience managed to keep you alive and when you recovered you found yourself free of Lamm and his abuses.
I REALLY like this. I copied the entire blog post into a Word document, and I think I'm going to add house-ruled 3rd options to both Love Lost and Unhappy Childhood based on this.
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![Scarecrow](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9032-Scarecrow.jpg)
Here's what I house-ruled in my game to include these traits (though in light of James Jacobs' recommendation, I may remove them once I get my hands on the AP itself and see how these traits are incorporated):
Dockside Avenger (as part of Lost Love): The murder victim was a sibling of yours. You care little for finding out if Lamm was directly responsible or not and are more obsessed with seeking revenge against anyone even rumored to be involved. While Lamm remains alive and free, you are not slain until your hit point total reaches a negative number equal to your Constitution score + 3. Once Lamm is imprisoned or killed, you lose the former benefit but gain 3 permanent hit points.
Inoculated (as part of Unhappy Childhood): Your family's resistance to disease was of great use to Gaedren Lamm as sick houses were often easy to enter and leave with valuables either because of healers coming and going or nosy neighbors avoiding the place. Your luck eventually ran out and you succumbed to a deadly illness. Lamm threw you aside and left you to rot in an alleyway, yet your resilience managed to keep you alive and when you recovered you found yourself free of Lamm and his abuses. You gain a +1 trait bonus on saving throws made to resist diseases, and gain immunity to one or two specific diseases determined secretly by your GM.
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Bill Dunn |
![Mynafee Gorse](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Paizo-W2-Mynafee-Gorse-HRF.jpg)
Dockside Avenger and Varisian Immunity are not official Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign traits. I wouldn't recommend using them as such, and instead suggest you use the campaign traits from the new hardcover, since those traits are hardcoded into the text and have in-game resolutions and rewards built in to the adventure.The Varisian Immunity trait is indeed a big spoiler, and it shouldn't have been written in the way it was written.
CotCT kind of seems a necessary antecedent to introduce Varisian Immunity as a trait to the campaign.
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donato Contributor |
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![Leaf Leshy](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO1120-Leaf_90.jpeg)
Don't forget about the Acadamae Neophyte trait. It also has some Korvosa (not entirely CotCT) flavor and was written by a cool freelancer I know.
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![Areelu Vorlesh](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9078-Areelu_500.jpeg)
Hmmm...would an Iomedae Paladin have any misgivings about opposing the rule of the Crimson Throne?
Also, what about Aasimars and Tieflings?
Finally, how would an female Ulfen barbarian find her way into such a setting?
There's absolutely nothing in a Paladin's code, or Iomedae's tenets, or her Paladin code that state "well she's evil and b!&~!*! crazy but she's queen so I have to do what she wants" :3
Aka Paladin's are perfectly fine going up against corrupt and/or evil governments.
As for the barbarian? Um, walk?
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![Agathion-Blooded Aasimar](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9424-Aasimar_90.jpeg)
Berselius wrote:Hmmm...would an Iomedae Paladin have any misgivings about opposing the rule of the Crimson Throne?
Also, what about Aasimars and Tieflings?
Finally, how would an female Ulfen barbarian find her way into such a setting?
There's absolutely nothing in a Paladin's code, or Iomedae's tenets, or her Paladin code that state "well she's evil and b+#$!&% crazy but she's queen so I have to do what she wants" :3
Aka Paladin's are perfectly fine going up against corrupt and/or evil governments.
As for the barbarian? Um, walk?
Best examples in popular culture of Paladins against corrupt governments: Captain America: Winter Soldier and Superman during the President Lex years.
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Bill Dunn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
![Mynafee Gorse](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Paizo-W2-Mynafee-Gorse-HRF.jpg)
Hmmm...would an Iomedae Paladin have any misgivings about opposing the rule of the Crimson Throne?
Before incontrovertable evidence comes in, they should have plenty of misgivings. Paladins, lawful characters in general, don't revolt at the drop of a hat. It needs more than suspicion and rumor.
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Chakat Firepaw |
Berselius wrote:Hmmm...would an Iomedae Paladin have any misgivings about opposing the rule of the Crimson Throne?
Also, what about Aasimars and Tieflings?
Finally, how would an female Ulfen barbarian find her way into such a setting?
There's absolutely nothing in a Paladin's code, or Iomedae's tenets, or her Paladin code that state "well she's evil and b!~~!## crazy but she's queen so I have to do what she wants" :3
Aka Paladin's are perfectly fine going up against corrupt and/or evil governments.
It also wouldn't be too much of a stretch for the Paladin to consider Ileosa's reign to be illegitimate or at least likely to be so. Remove legitimacy and you remove lines of thinking that start with "the law is the law."
As for the barbarian? Um, walk?
For a more serious answer: Hiring tough people from far away as things like bodyguards has a long history in the real world. Start with a small band of Ulfen mercs that some noble hired and it's not hard to get from that to having either a young shieldbearer come with them or a child be born in Korvosa and raised with the expectation of having to return home. You then just have to have her end up falling into the opening plot, (Drug Addict, Framed or Love Lost work with this).
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Maveric28 |
![Elan](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Avatar_Elan.jpg)
LOVE this... wasn't expecting an updated Players Guide as a blog. This is incredibly helpful, so thank you James!
Now back to typing up my city guide "for player's eyes," based on snippets from the original CoCT Player's Guide (for D&D 3.5) and the Pathfinder Chronicles: Guide to Korvosa. A bit of a chore but I reeeaally want to capture the flavor of this setting for my players to use and refer to.
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Berselius |
![Sir Holton](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/8.SerHolton.jpg)
Even if Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire Hardcovers don't come out, could we get updated Player's Guide blog posts for these?
Never say never, I'd say Paizo would definately give both Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire a chance at least at Hardcover releases if and when they sell out (if they haven't already). :D
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Cole Deschain |
![The Cinderlander](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/The-Cinderlander.jpg)
I can't wait to smash in Gaedren Lamm's ugly, pathetic, child-abusing face again.
I still recall my 3.5 Rogue's interaction with him... pulling off his gloves and showing the burn scars I'd developed as part of his backstory.
"Oh, so NOW you recognize me... but you don't look too happy to see me, you son of a <redacted>."
Lamm remains a gem among low-level filth.
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![Osiris](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9080-Osiris.jpg)
Writing my own "class recommendations" for those classes "missing" from the original Players Guide was one of the first things I did after reading the AP when starting my own CotCT(now three years in). What follows is a massive listing sans Libre Office checking so sorry about any typos.
Alchemist: The urban cityscape of Korvosa has many opportunities in store for the academically minded and practitioners of the profession of alchemy are no exception. While Academae offers very little for the discerning alchemist, various chymists' shoppes, breweries, distilleries and small gatherings of intelligentsia dot the streets of Korvosa. Some alchemists arrive to discern and distill the beat of the citys strange streets, others are naturally drawn to the various diseases that periodically lay waste to poor quarters of Korvosa while yet others seek transformative agents to wipe away their grim memories or to remedy their twisted bodies. Players might consider the chirurgeon, mindchemist and vivisectionist archetypes from Ultimate Magic as well the following discoveries dispelling bomb, poison bomb(APG), mummification and sunlight bomb (UM).
Cavalier: Far from the prestigious soldier academies of Cheliax and Taldor, many local cavaliers instead take up the mantle of the law, serving in the city guards corps or as enforcers for the local nobility or its enterprising mages, regal and unswerving in their prowess. The local members of Shoanti quah's and Varisian caravans also have their own cavaliers. While the Chelaxian populace of Korvosa might not recognize their authority, none can question their mastery of the horse and the lance. Discerning players might consider the Emissary, Standard Bearer and Tactician (UC) archetypes and the orders of the Lion, Shield and Star (APG) as well as the orders of the Blue Rose and the Tome (UC). Cavaliers of the Order of the Star should consider the deities Abadar, Asmodeus, Pharasma Sarenrae and Shelyn, all of which have a strong presence in Korvosa.
Gunslinger: The exotic secrets of black powder have by and large eluded the frontiers of Varisia, both distance and the relative modernity working against their adoption by the martial enthusiasts of the region, but that is not to say that devotees of this strange fighting style are entirely unknown in Korvosa. Many are the exotic wares carted from the cutters and brigs moored in the dockside piers and not all of them end up gathering dust in some forgotten armory: Janderhoffian engineers recognize the untapped potential of gunworks and and there are even whispers of the city guard experimenting with these new weapons. Should you wish to try your hand at gunslinging, archetypes such as Gun Tank, Musket Master and Pistolero, all from Ultimate Combat would be well worth your time.
Inquisitor: Faith is its own reward, they say. For an inquisitor this holds true, but they are prepared to take the next step and reward others with such bliss as well. Korvosa harbors many organized churches and still more lesser convents and cults. Of these those of Abadar, Asmodeus, Sarenrae and Pharasma all have the organizationional ability and resources to perform inquisitions. To be an inquisitor in Korvosa is to be a seeker of truth and justice in what one too many a bard has called a "quagmire of bureaucratic sloth and a temple to graft". More worldly types would simple call Korvosa a city far too enchanted by its own laws. From hunting illegal necromancers to raiding Cerulean society pesh dens and from championing the order of Hell to serving undercover as a diplomatic envoy, Korvosan inquisitors certainly have their hands full. Such busy types might want to adopt the Preacher and Sin Eater (UM) archetypes or the Spellbreaker and Witch Hunter (UC) archetypes.
Magus: Few have the time or the will to master the kind of synergistic approach to combat that a magus practices, but many try. Some of these end up in the Acadamae while still more seek internships as private conductors for mercenary corps or as bodyguards for various guilds instead of suffering through the arduous regime of the mage academy's faculty. Some magi adopt Varisian combat styles using the rapier and the starknife while others merely pick a magic trick here and there to augment their martial history - for instance, Ulfen and Dwarven skirnir favor this approach. The following archetypes work best for The Crimson Throne Adventure Path: Bladebound, Hexcrafter and Staff Magus from Ultimate Magic and Myrmidarch, Skirnir and Soulforger from Ultimate Combat.
Oracle: The relative proximity to the Shoanti holds in North and to the curious ruins that litter the countryside of Varisia's coast inspire a deep mysticism in some of the inhabitants of this small city state. For some it is a calling of sorts, paving the way for strange powers to awaken. Easily mistaken for sorcerers because of the vivid aura of power and glamour surrounding them, Varisian oracles are as varied as their sponsors, the unknown outsiders or spirits guiding them. Some attribute this mystique and allure to devil worship, while still others scoff at the oracles and think them just plain insane. For those oracles interested in thematically Varisian mysteries, have a look at bones, lore and life from Advanced Player's Guide and ancestors, metal and time from Ultimate Magic along with such curses as clouded vision, haunted and wasting (AP).
Summoner: Korvosan conjurers, what with the ruling body of bureaucrats and nobles having some less than covert prestige with their Chelaxian forebears' deviltry, form the bulk of the local body of mages and wizarding practitioners. Summoners on the other are a bit of conundrum to most people: outwardly resembling the feared and respected wizards, but sharing a strange druid-like bond with strange beasts, they exist in a crux between acceptance and shun where only their actions can dictate whether they share people's trust or bare the brunt of their ire. Korvosan summoners might sport such archetypes as Broodmaster and Master Summoner (UM), and favor the aquatic(UM) and biped(APG) types.
Witch: Curious are the times when the country folk don't see this or that wisewoman or apothecary burned at the stake or thrown, bound in chains and shackles, into a lake, but Korvosa, thanks to being generally speaking a rather civilized bit of Golarion, has a decent respect for witchery, as long as it's not done on the street or in the middle of a market day. Rashes need seeing to, poultices brewing and lost husbands finding and for those without a reasonable source of income, or maybe a coffer in Abadar's Bank, local alchemists and clerics are often beyond reach. The friendly old crone, the wizened animal whisperer, the strangely alluring busybody who talks to the dead, their prices are cheaper, yet look out, you might get more than you bargain for. For those in the need for a Korvosan witching hour, Ultimate Magic has their needs covered with such archetypes as Gravewalker and Hedge Witch, along with the following hexes: feral speech, prehensile hair and water lung. APG has few more to offer: cackle, flight, fortune and healing.
No spoilers there, actually, since I wrote it with my players in mind. Might be useful to someone, I dunno.
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Corrik |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
![Kyra](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PactHallRitual3.jpg)
I've been a player in two CotCT campaigns and in my experience Lamm makes for a poor foundation and should be a minor part of your character. Both games dealt with him in the first session, and this seems to be the norm. It doesn't really give you much time to form party bonds and the first game basically had the legs kicked out from underneath it. We had a bunch of damaged, disparate, and not very good people who no longer had a reason to stay together and were near instantly asked to become members of the guard and save the city. The situation quickly escalates so that a small group of low level, recently deputized characters are expected to deal with anarchy, assassins, cultists, evil leaders, and plague and damn near all at once. We were hard pressed to justify why our characters would do any of this and not just leave, and it ultimately led to the death of the first game.
My recommendation, make a big damn hero or someone who really cares about Korvosa and leave Lamm as a B motivation. For the second game we prepped characters more for being members of the guard saving the city and it worked much, much better. Two of us had some beef with Lamm but the ghost brought us together as people who could help her and served as the catalyst for us staying together and doing more good.