Advanced Class Guide Preview: Investigator

Tuesday, June 10, 2014

Funny story. While brainstorming the Advanced Class Guide, and determining which classes were to appear in it, the investigator almost didn't make the cut.


Illustration by Igor Grechanyi

The class was my favorite from the start. I love detective stories and have been a fan of Doyle's work since first reading The Hound of the Baskervilles all those years ago. I've also been delighted by the numerous reinterpretations of Sherlock Holmes popping up over the decades. For a long time now, I've wanted to cast the shadow of that brilliant investigator and chemist in the light of Pathfinder by fusing the rogue and the alchemist. I knew it wouldn't be easy, but there were fears that the task might be nearly impossible or the class would not find traction with the players.

To our relief, those fears were unjustified.

From the start, a sizable group of players grokked the class. Pathfinder is a combat game, to be sure, but it's also a game of exploration, where players uncover the secrets of their GM's campaign. While some classes are pretty good at exploring story and secrets, their true potential often doesn't ramp up until higher levels. The investigator, through the inspiration mechanic, gives players a leg up from the start.

While the concept of the investigator was well received, that didn't mean the playtest and further development were a walk in the park. The early iteration of the investigator relied on a later-level progression of the rogue's sneak attack to ramp up its combat effectiveness (he can't uncover secrets all the time). Playtests showed us that wasn't good enough. The investigator's ability to increase his combat potential needed something new to highlight his unique take on adventuring. We went back to the drawing board and created studied combat and studied strike. These new mechanics allows the investigator to study his opponent and gain bonuses in combat, until he has studied his foe enough to unleash a damaging, maybe even debilitating, strike. This mechanic kept the investigator true to his theme in and out of combat. The early versions of those abilities were unleashed during the second round of playtesting, and through the great feedback we were able to refine these mechanics into their final form.

Studied Combat (Ex): With a keen eye and calculating mind, an investigator can assess the mettle of his opponent to take advantage of gaps in talent and training. At 4th level, an investigator can use a move action to study a single enemy that he can see. Upon doing so, he adds 1/2 his investigator level as an insight bonus on melee attack rolls and as a bonus on damage rolls against the creature. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.

An investigator can only have one target of studied combat at a time, and once a creature has become the target of an investigator's studied combat, he cannot become the target of the same investigator's studied combat again for 24 hours unless the investigator expends one use of inspiration when taking the move action to use this ability.

Studied Strike (Ex): At 4th level, an investigator can choose to make a studied strike against the target of his studied combat as a free action, upon successfully hitting his studied target with a melee attack, to deal additional damage. The damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 for every 2 levels thereafter (to a maximum of 9d6 at 20th level). The damage of studied strike is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit; creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to studied strike. If the investigator's attack used a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), he may choose to have the additional damage from studied strike be nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. If the investigator chose to make an attack with a lethal weapon instead deal nonlethal damage (with the usual –4 penalty), the studied strike damage may also deal nonlethal damage.

The investigator must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. An investigator cannot use studied strike against a creature with concealment.

Furthermore, investigator talents allow this class to increase the effectiveness of these two abilities, some of which allow you add debilitating conditions to the studied strike.

Lastly, while the various incarnations of Sherlock Holmes were the inspiration for the investigator, there are many types of investigators floating around the creative consciousness. When designing archetypes, we wanted to cover as many of those bases as space allowed. In the book you'll find the mastermind (an investigator that manipulates via a group of minions), the sleuth (a gumshoe who uses luck instead of inspiration), the spiritualist (a detective who gains insight from the world beyond), and much, much more.

In short, if you have a hankering for playing the smartest guy in the group, we think you'll dig the investigator.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Designer

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Tags: Igor Grechanyi Investigator Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While I wish we got Studied strike more often against a foe, it does make sense for the character.

Interesting point, your opponent doesn't need to be flat footed to be hit with precision damage! Sweetness! :)


So if I'm reading this right, you study your enemy to start with, then get bonuses to attack and damage until you run out of time or use a studied strike as a finishing move? And you can burn your inspiration pool to repeat it for tougher enemies? Sounds interesting.

Grand Lodge

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So you get a bonus equal to half your level to you to hit and damage for a number of rounds equal to your int mod, with a move action to start it off. You can cancel this effect early to do sneak attack like damage.

At low levels that doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. Not much use for full attacks, and the bonus to hit and damage can push you into fighter to-hit ranges. That's nice. I'm just not sure what a class that's the hybrid of rogue and alchemist doesn't just get sneak attack though. Seems like a lot of work just to have a "not quite sneak attack, but might be better for some times, but never as many dice as sneak or bombs would get you" ability.

I am uncertain of this abilities utility, but I suppose I should wait for the final release to see how it fully plays out.


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Hey cool, they sort of used an idea I had about debilitating conditions!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Very cool. Out of the new classes the Investigator is the class I'm most looking forward to.

Studied Combat + Studied Strike looks *very* cool. Are there archetypes or talents that allow you to use this with ranged attacks (presumably in the standard 30' sneak attack distance)? And does precision damage from Studied Strike stack with Sneak Attack dice?

I play a lot of Arcane Tricksters and Snipers, so that's immediately where I try to go with the mechanics. Looking forward to seeing the outcome either way.

Sczarni

Very cool! I like how this has turned out! This is absolutely, 100% going to be my new favorite class.

One little thing, though...

The easiest way to explain crits to newbie players has always been, "flat numbers multiply, extra dice don't." But Studied Combat has a "flat" bonus to damage that doesn't multiply on a critical hit. Cases like this one mess up that simple explanation.

Note that there are very, very few of these elsewhere in the rules:

Spoiler:
  • Learned Duelist archetype for Fighter
  • Siege Gunner archetype for Gunslinger
  • Raging Brutality feat
  • Large Target feat
  • Flying Stunt rogue talent
  • Named Bullet spell

Those are all pretty obscure cases. This is a standard class feature of what may well be the most popular new class. To me, that's not good consistent design. I'm gonna end up houseruling that it multiplies.

Dark Archive

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Hmm seems they kept the ability melee only. pity

Liberty's Edge

Studied Combat is everything I dreamed it would be. Especially since I'm sure they kept the Talent that lets you do it as a Swift action. You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.

Also, particularly at high levels, it's gonna last the whole combat and just be one of the best flat enhancements to combat prowess available. Better than a Dawnflower Dervish's performance at high levels (and roughly on par from level 8 on), just for example.

Th Gumshoe also sounds like a blast. I'm more than enough of a noir fan to have squee'd a bit inside at that.


The Investigator is proving to be of much greater interest to me than I originally thought it would.....NICELY DONE


Nice. Been hoping to play the Investigator soon and glad to see that the studied strike combat got finalized and previewed so I can use the extra damage version for the new game.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.

Charging is a full-round action.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Kevin Mack wrote:
Hmm seems they kept the ability melee only. pity

Given how many people would want to play a noir detective with this class, I'm sure there's a firearms-based archetype.


So, am I correct in assuming that when using Studied Strike, you also get the bonus damage from Studied Combat? It says activating as a free action after hitting with a melee attack, so that is why I was wondering.

Would also love to see an archetype that replaces study with bombs, or to have bombs in some way available to the investigator....because I love bombs.

Loving how this is turning out.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Nice stuff. Personally, the Investigator is far and away my most anticipated class in the ACG, so I'm very glad it made it in. The game is afoot!


I'm liking this class.


N. Specter wrote:

So, am I correct in assuming that when using Studied Strike, you also get the bonus damage from Studied Combat? It says activating as a free action after hitting with a melee attack, so that is why I was wondering.

Yup.


I'm loving what I see of this class!

Liberty's Edge

Ross Byers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.
Charging is a full-round action.

Ah, you're right. I was misremembering the bit where you can charge as a standard action as generally applicable (it's actually only available when staggered or otherwise reduced to only a standard action).

My bad.

Still, you can do it, then move up, losing only a single attack rather than a Full Attack. Or do it and buff somehow.

Grand Lodge

Get a surprise round, use it to study, then charge on the first round. Not always going to happen, but possible.

Not enamored of the idea, so I don't see myself rolling an investigator any time soon.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But if you take the talent that lets you use Studied Combat as swift action couldn't you still charge as a Full-Round Action?


In some ways, the Investigator reminds me of like the ultimate duelist class, as in he excels in 1 vs 1 encounters.

In a novel or comic, I could totally see an Investigator being the primary protagonist that gets the final showdown with the arch-rival BBEG.

Hmm... a Gestalt Slayer/Investigator would be niiiiiice!


Ross Byers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.
Charging is a full-round action.

When you only have a standard (see surprise round), it's just a standard. Studying itself is activated with a swift.

I really like the wording here, reminds me of 4e.

Designer

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LoneKnave wrote:
When you only have a standard (see surprise round), it's just a standard. Studying itself is activated with a swift.

That's not entirely true. You can take free actions during a surprise round (Core Rulebook 178, and the general rules on swift actions is that you can take them "anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action" (Core Rulebook 188).

If you can take studied combat as a swift action, you can use it in the surprise round.


LoneKnave wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.
Charging is a full-round action.

Studying itself is activated with a swift.

That's only if the Quick Study talent gets updated/still exists.

Liberty's Edge

Protoman wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.
Charging is a full-round action.

Studying itself is activated with a swift.

That's only if the Quick Study talent gets updated/still exists.

True, but I'd bet on it still being around.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Protoman wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.
Charging is a full-round action.

Studying itself is activated with a swift.

That's only if the Quick Study talent gets updated/still exists.
True, but I'd bet on it still being around.

The fact that SRM is talking about being able to use Studied Combat as a swift action at all indicates with 95% certainty that some version of the Quick Study talent still exists - or a similar ability with similar benefits, at the very least.

Also, I'm really liking the Investigator class - really solid work gentlemen!


I think this one will be my third favorite of the new classes.


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On the subject of ranged attacks and Studied Combat - If I'm parsing the phrasing for Studied Combat correctly, then it reads as if you may get the bonus from Studied Combat on damage rolls with ranged attacks...

Studied Combat: "With a keen eye and calculating mind, an investigator can assess the mettle of his opponent to take advantage of gaps in talent and training. At 4th level, an investigator can use a move action to study a single enemy that he can see. Upon doing so, he adds 1/2 his investigator level as an insight bonus on melee attack rolls and as a bonus on damage rolls against the creature. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit."

If Studied Combat was intended to apply to melee attack and melee damage rolls only, then I would have worded it "as an insight bonus on melee attack and damage rolls against the creature". The splitting of "melee attack rolls" and "as a bonus on damage rolls" seems to indicate that you do get the bonus to damage with ranged weapons. Then again, it may be worded that was in order to designate bonus to attack rolls as as insight bonus type, but leave the bonus on damage rolls untyped. This would be a bit odd, because I don't think there would be a conflict with making the bonus to damage rolls an insight typed bonus. Then again, I'm not certain anything else exists that gives an insight bonus to damage, so maybe this was done to keep damage bonuses untyped...?

Anyone else reading this the same way I am?

Any chance we can get a quick thought on design intent, SRM?

Edit One: If you can get the Studied Combat bonus to damage rolls, then we're talking about a bonus that scales very similarity to that from the Deadly Aim feat, without the attack roll penalty. Granted, your still behind on BAB when it comes to meeting feat prerequisites, it still could make for a decent ranged attacker.

Edit Two: Just talked to my friend who's a contract laywer (yes, our group has a literal rules lawyer - we point that out to him on a regular basis, lol) and he said that if this were a legal contract, the lack of a comma prior to the word "and" in the sentence I've highlighted would indicate that adverbs and adjectives, such as the word "melee", should be carried over to the second half of the sentence. This interpretation would mean that the bonus to damage rolls only applies to melee attacks. (Not sure Paizo has a contracts lawyer on staff, or if this is a common interpretation in any other sectors of business/profession, but just figured I'd share.)


Cheapy wrote:
Hey cool, they sort of used an idea I had about debilitating conditions!

Me

too!

;D

I can't wait to roll this class in all it's glory :DDD

Designer

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The attack and damage rolls are for melee attacks. The bonus to damage is not an insight bonus (it is just a bonus) that is why the sentence is parsed like that.

There are ways that you can get studied strike with ranged attacks, so no worries about that for the folk who want it.

Designer

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Oh, and swift study is still an investigator talent...so no worries there either.


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

The attack and damage rolls are for melee attacks. The bonus to damage is not an insight bonus (it is just a bonus) that is why the sentence is parsed like that.

There are ways that you can get studied strike with ranged attacks, so no worries about that for the folk who want it.

Awesome!

Thanks for the speedy reply SRM and glad I coaxed a few more spoilers out of you. =)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Glad they fixed the studied combat duration...1/2 your Intelligence was fairly limiting.

And Mastermind and spiritualist (maybe has oracle curses/revelations!)? Hell yeah!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
MechE_ wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

The attack and damage rolls are for melee attacks. The bonus to damage is not an insight bonus (it is just a bonus) that is why the sentence is parsed like that.

There are ways that you can get studied strike with ranged attacks, so no worries about that for the folk who want it.

Awesome!

Thanks for the speedy reply SRM and glad I coaxed a few more spoilers out of you. =)

Poor MechE_. Unaware of the price he shall pay for bargaining with Stephen.

Stephen wanted to punch Jason, his close coworker and friend, in the face with a metal gauntlet. What do you think shall happen to you?

Liberty's Edge

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Regarding Stephen Radney-MacFarland's words, I am filled with happiness and well-nigh boundless joy. :)


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Cheapy wrote:
MechE_ wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

The attack and damage rolls are for melee attacks. The bonus to damage is not an insight bonus (it is just a bonus) that is why the sentence is parsed like that.

There are ways that you can get studied strike with ranged attacks, so no worries about that for the folk who want it.

Awesome!

Thanks for the speedy reply SRM and glad I coaxed a few more spoilers out of you. =)

Poor MechE_. Unaware of the price he shall pay for bargaining with Stephen.

Stephen wanted to punch Jason, his close coworker and friend, in the face with a metal gauntlet. What do you think shall happen to you?

Picks up d20

Yeah, but Stephen wanted to do that for the children...

Will Save: 3 + 3 = 6

MechE_ is shaken.

Sczarni

In the book you'll find the mastermind (an investigator that manipulates via a group of minions)

So Tintin with Thomson and Thompson minions anyone?


Woo! Quick Study! Didn't wanna get my hopes up but that's a relief. Hope there's a "Extra Investigator Talent" feat to pick up all the goodies.


I like what I see so far with Studied Combat.

I do hope that the formulae list was expanded on some with a few unique spells for investigating.


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Mastermind archetype.

MASTERMIND ARCHETYPE.

My desire for this book just increased tenfold.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
El Ronza wrote:

Mastermind archetype.

MASTERMIND ARCHETYPE.

My desire for this book just increased tenfold.

Unique Leadership feat, allowing you to get special, yellow goblins (alt, kobolds), some of which have one eye...


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Studied Combat is everything I dreamed it would be. Especially since I'm sure they kept the Talent that lets you do it as a Swift action. You just activate it and then charge in the first round (when you wouldn't get a Full Attack anyway), and receive some very shiny bonuses.

Also, particularly at high levels, it's gonna last the whole combat and just be one of the best flat enhancements to combat prowess available. Better than a Dawnflower Dervish's performance at high levels (and roughly on par from level 8 on), just for example.

Th Gumshoe also sounds like a blast. I'm more than enough of a noir fan to have squee'd a bit inside at that.

I think you might have missed this part (my bold)

Studied Combat wrote:
This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.

If I read this right it is only for one attack per day, which is weak, especially since it doesn’t multiply on a critical hit.

You can expends one use of inspiration, but that only grant you bonus on one more attack and since you only can use a swift action per round that mean even if you burn inspiration during a round you can only get a bonus to max two attacks per round.

It is still a cool ability, but not as powerful as one might think.

I hope there is an "Extended Studied Combat" talent that let the bonus last for one round if you expend one use of inspiration. You know, a bit like lingering performance for bards. That would be cool.


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All the problems I had with Studied Combat fixed?

Awesome.

Adding this:

Quote:
Furthermore, investigator talents allow this class to increase the effectiveness of these two abilities, some of which allow you add debilitating conditions to the studied strike.

BETTER.

Cheapy wrote:
Hey cool, they sort of used an idea I had about debilitating conditions!

Hey, not just YOU. =)

Silver Crusade

6 people marked this as a favorite.
El Ronza wrote:

Mastermind archetype.

MASTERMIND ARCHETYPE.

My desire for this book just increased tenfold.

Yeah, I have to wonder just what those minions are going to be.

Gonna get my Monarch on.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
El Ronza wrote:

Mastermind archetype.

MASTERMIND ARCHETYPE.

My desire for this book just increased tenfold.

Yeah, I have to wonder just what those minions are going to be.

Gonna get my Monarch on.

Theme song included


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Mythic Investigator and his Gunslinger cohort..

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Zark wrote:

I think you might have missed this part (my bold)

Studied Combat wrote:
This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.

If I read this right it is only for one attack per day, which is weak, especially since it doesn’t multiply on a critical hit.

You can expends one use of inspiration, but that only grant you bonus on one more attack and since you only can use a swift action per round that mean even if you burn inspiration during a round you can only get a bonus to max two attacks per round.

It is still a cool ability, but not as powerful as one might think.

I hope there is an "Extended Studied Combat" talent that let the bonus last for one round if you expend one use of inspiration. You know, a bit like lingering performance for bards. That would be cool.

No, you're confusing Studied Strike and Studied Combat. Studied Combat is a multi-round buff that you can end at any time by making a Studied Strike...but doing so is never required, so you don't have to end it before it ends naturally (or can add Studied Strike onto the last attack, if it hits), and it's not another name for hitting someone while Studied Combat is in operation, it's an entirely separate class feature.


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Zark wrote:

I think you might have missed this part (my bold)

Studied Combat wrote:
This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.

If I read this right it is only for one attack per day, which is weak, especially since it doesn’t multiply on a critical hit.

You can expends one use of inspiration, but that only grant you bonus on one more attack and since you only can use a swift action per round that mean even if you burn inspiration during a round you can only get a bonus to max two attacks per round.

It is still a cool ability, but not as powerful as one might think.

I hope there is an "Extended Studied Combat" talent that let the bonus last for one round if you expend one use of inspiration. You know, a bit like lingering performance for bards. That would be cool.

Not quite. There are two different abilities in play here with similar names, studied combat and studied strike.

You use studied combat as a move action to pick up the attack and damage bonus equal to half your investigator level. You keep that bonus until you use the second ability, studied strike.

Studied strike is like a finishing move that apparently can apply negative conditions, and gives you a few d6 of extra damage.


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Axial wrote:
Mythic Investigator and his Gunslinger cohort..

Awesome, just as cool as the Investigator :)

Now we must get a Gunslinger "investigator cohort archetype" that get heal as a class skill.

Silver Crusade

DeciusNero wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
El Ronza wrote:

Mastermind archetype.

MASTERMIND ARCHETYPE.

My desire for this book just increased tenfold.

Yeah, I have to wonder just what those minions are going to be.

Gonna get my Monarch on.

Theme song included

Oh God please yes

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