The woes of being a class whose Key Attribute isn't really their Key Attribute

[PathMaster]

So, the long awaited Tech Core Playtest is finally here, bringing with it the Mechanic and Technomancer, who are the last in a series of classes whose Key Attribute is Intelligence (Paizo really loves smart fellas, uh?).

They're both pretty neat classes, who both funnily seem in some way to improve on classes Pathfinder has already taken a shot at with Technomancer having a better implementation of "schools" and "school slots", and Mechanic filling better the idea of an Inventor capable of modifying their gear.

But this isn't the point of the post.

The point is that Mechanic's Key Attribute only covers half of the class. Allow me to explain:

-The Mechanic starts trained in Simple and Martial weapons, and increases its proficiencies at level 5 and 13, like every single Martial and Gish in the game;
-It gains Weapon Specialization at level 7 and improves it into its greater version at level 15, like every other Martial and (good) Gish;
-Its not going to use its Class DC as often as a Kineticist and Soldier or a Spellcaster with their Spell DC to warrant worse Strikes, except when selecting a Mine Exocortex, which is only one of the options available to a class.

Mechanic is a Martial, there's no doubt about that, and as a Martial it's going to want to Strike its enemies, and to do that they're going to want to have their Strength or Dexterity at +4 to hit as often as possible, but uh oh, its Key Attribute is Intelligence, which can't be used for Strikes.

This means that in order to reach the power other classes reach by having a +4 in their Key Ability Score, Mechanic is going to need to have to also get +3 in Strength or Dexterity, leaving the rest of the stats at either +1 or 0 (I have ignored Ancestries with 3 boosts and a flaw for simplicity's sake).

Needless to say, this isn't great. It doesn't ruin the class by any means, sure, but that doesn't mean it can't be better, as seen with the Cleric and Investigator remasters. (Admittedly a big buff for Cleric)

How do we fix this? The answer is surprisingly simple: just allow Int to be used for Strikes' Attack Rolls.

Ok, it's not just that.
Remember when I said that Intelligence can't be used for Strikes? That's not completely true, there is a class that can add the Intelligence modifier instead of the usual modifiers to the Attack Rolls of Strikes: Investigator.

How do they do that? Thanks to Devise a Stratagem, which allows to use Intelligence when Striking the target of the ability instead of Strength of Dexterity, so long as the weapon has the Agile or Finesse traits, is Ranged or is a Sap.

Now, we can't just slap Devise a Stratagem on the Mechanic, since that's the Investigator's thing, but we can draw inspiration from it, by tying the ability to add Intelligence to a Strike's Attack Roll to one of the Mechanics preexisting abilities.

There are two ways we could do this, in my opinion:
1) We can allow you to add your Intelligence modifier when Striking with a weapon under the effects of Modify, or
2) We tie it to the Exocortexes (for example, when a creature has taken damage from one of our Exocortexes).

What do you think?

TL;DR Mechanic should be able to add the Intelligence modifier to Strikes' attack Roll

[WWHsmackdown]

Ehh, just adding some action feats for remote hacking or crafting related debuffing on tech enemies would help further justify the non strike KAS. PF2E gets along just fine with it's -1 martials; HOW WELL those classes utilize their non strike KAS is more of a case by case study.

[Zoken44]

I could understand allowing Int to be the roll for things like a drone's weapon mount or the turret. That would make a lot of sense.

[PathMaster]

WWHsmackdown wrote:

Ehh, just adding some action feats for remote hacking or crafting related debuffing on tech enemies would help further justify the non strike KAS. PF2E gets along just fine with it's -1 martials; HOW WELL those classes utilize their non strike KAS is more of a case by case study.

The issue is not whether they can hit things well enough, is that to do so they have to invest a lot more compared to other classes, leaving little wiggle room for versatility in ability scores and skills, which isn't great.

[Zoken44]

What do you mean? You can easily have a +4 int and a +3 dex (which takes care of armor and most ranged weapons in this system). I was very confused by you constantly mentioning strength. If they really want to build for a character that uses weapons that require strength, those would be area weapons, which in SF2e use your class DC as the save. so they could easily build +3 int and +2 in dex and +2 str which, because they have medium armor proficiency means they are still covered for armor and the kind of weapons you're refering to.

[Xenocrat]

There's some configurations where it works ok. At second level an Area Denial feat turret using the Pinpoint Shot mod can three action area fire up to a 45' cone/line using the class DC and adding on the Intelligence modifier for extra damage. No dex needed.

Mines also have a x2 intelligence bonus option on top of class DC, although it costs a feat and an action to boost it on an action constrained playstyle.

Yeah, drones mechanics don't have any special use for it. It's unclear for now how drones are supposed to use area weapons - if they get to use mechanic class DC that's something, at least. But unlikely.

[PathMaster]

Zoken44 wrote:

What do you mean? You can easily have a +4 int and a +3 dex (which takes care of armor and most ranged weapons in this system). I was very confused by you constantly mentioning strength. If they really want to build for a character that uses weapons that require strength, those would be area weapons, which in SF2e use your class DC as the save. so they could easily build +3 int and +2 in dex and +2 str which, because they have medium armor proficiency means they are still covered for armor and the kind of weapons you're refering to.

I ask that you slowly reread the post, because it seems you are arguing against points different than those I made in my post.

[keftiu]

I could've missed something, but I've gotta say: I don't really know what Intelligence is supposed to be doing for a turrets Mechanic.

Some kind of Int-to-hit mechanic could help bring back some of the old "I hacked my brain and eyes" Exocortex flavor, too!

[OrochiFuror]

keftiu wrote:

I could've missed something, but I've gotta say: I don't really know what Intelligence is supposed to be doing for a turrets Mechanic.

Some kind of Int-to-hit mechanic could help bring back some of the old "I hacked my brain and eyes" Exocortex flavor, too!

HP per level and AC. Also saves for aoe attacks.

More wouldn't be bad though.

[kaid]

While they may not max dex I imagine almost all mechanics will put dex right behind int. Not a ton of str needs from what I can see unless you want to try to melee but that seems like a low probability thing from the way this class is built. If you are trying melee you are probably having a bot do it for you.

Honestly there seems more built in support for the key stat benefiting you on the mechanic than a number of other classes in PF2e.

[DeltaPangaea]

It sure would be nice if they had an ability that improved their ability to attack things, perhaps after locking onto them with some kind of targeting system.

Y'know, like 1e Mechanic had! With its (Real) Exocortex! It let you target lock things to improve your BAB from medium to full.

With its attack prof already solid here, making a lock-on let you attack with Int instead of str or dex would be a solid solution. It'd also make it feel less like they tossed half of the old Mechanic in the garbage. Not that I'm bitter.

[Lonesomechunk]

It'd be neat if Intelligence could be incorporated more. I don't feel like its necessarily *super* lacking but it feels like its on the edge of being too little for my tastes so I'd prefer they lean on it a bit more.

[Qaianna]

If nothing else, it'd help me sort out which way to go: +4 Int +2 Dex or +3 in each since I'm making some suboptimal choices for ancestry.

["Dr." Cupi]

Qaianna wrote:

If nothing else, it'd help me sort out which way to go: +4 Int +2 Dex or +3 in each since I'm making some suboptimal choices for ancestry.

That really depends on how you want to play it. One could easily play a drone or mine mechanic with a 0 bonus on dex. Probably inadvisable, but possible. If you want the most out of a turret mechanic, I'd suggest 4/3 or 3/3, int/dex respectively.

[kaid]

DeltaPangaea wrote:

It sure would be nice if they had an ability that improved their ability to attack things, perhaps after locking onto them with some kind of targeting system.

Y'know, like 1e Mechanic had! With its (Real) Exocortex! It let you target lock things to improve your BAB from medium to full.

With its attack prof already solid here, making a lock-on let you attack with Int instead of str or dex would be a solid solution. It'd also make it feel less like they tossed half of the old Mechanic in the garbage. Not that I'm bitter.

They already have effectively full BAB without needing to spend any actions on lock on. You can use that action that used to be needed to lock on to amp your gun or armor or move or take other actions. In SF1 exocortex benefit was basically spending an action to be comparable to a full martial in SF2e the base kit is already full martial. Remote hacking stuff remote control of vehicles are available as feats. The mod actions give you a lot of flexibility for improving yourself/weapons/armor and I strongly suspect the full release version is going to expand on the mod options significantly.

[Qaianna]

"Dr." Cupi wrote:

Qaianna wrote:

If nothing else, it'd help me sort out which way to go: +4 Int +2 Dex or +3 in each since I'm making some suboptimal choices for ancestry.

That really depends on how you want to play it. One could easily play a drone or mine mechanic with a 0 bonus on dex. Probably inadvisable, but possible. If you want the most out of a turret mechanic, I'd suggest 4/3 or 3/3, int/dex respectively.

I didn't even think of the dex dump option for miners or droners. And, in hindsight, it looks like the drones available focus a bit on melee, although no-one's banning slapping a gun on one so there's that option.

Still, from what you say, the 3/3 is probably where this build will go. 4/3 is unattainable.

[Zoken44]

Don't forget that you can always go with the alternate 2 free bonuses no penalties for any ancestry.

[Teridax]

I spent a hot minute trying out a Mechanic with a drone exocortex device and 0 Int (Leshy for the attribute flaw to Intelligence), and dumping my key attribute made surprisingly little difference. I wasn't stunningly amazing at Computers checks, and my Desperate Repair mod was perhaps a little weak, but neither were really core to my character. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as a top-tier build, because the Mechanic doesn't gain terribly much from Strength or Charisma, but the fact that it's possible to dump your key attribute and barely feel it is a little strange.

For this reason, I agree with the OP that Intelligence should perhaps factor more into the Mechanic's core kit, though I don't think the class necessarily ought to Strike with their Int modifier. Personally, I'd target mods, and so in the following way:

Make current mods class feats of appropriate level.

Your rig gives you a number of 1st-level feats with the mod trait equal to, say, 2 + your Intelligence modifier, plus 2 extra mods based on your exocortex. Raise your Int later on, and you can take more mods.

You'd still have room to boost Int to less than its maximum, but at least it would be directly impactful to the core class no matter what. I think it would sweeten the deal as well to have many more mods for each of your exocortex devices, so you'd get to choose how many generic mods to take on versus how much you'd want to specialize into your subclass.

["Dr." Cupi]

I'm going to disagree, Teridax. Plenty of aspects of the mechanic class operate off of int. I don't think the class needs any more int dependent-ness at its core (except int to hit with the turret I would be a fan of). I consider being able to dump the main stat and still have a functional character a plus.

[Zoken44]

I would argue that something I've not seen mentioned much is that Mechanic also fills a bit of the skill monkey role. With 2 skills off the bat (which can be auto leveled) and then 3+int skills, with int intended to be higher as KAS. add this to the skills that the drone can pick up, that makes the Mechanic a very skill strong character.

[Teridax]

"Dr." Cupi wrote:

I'm going to disagree, Teridax. Plenty of aspects of the mechanic class operate off of int. I don't think the class needs any more int dependent-ness at its core (except int to hit with the turret I would be a fan of). I consider being able to dump the main stat and still have a functional character a plus.

Plenty of aspects of the Mechanic clearly don't operate off of Int, since as already pointed out, I operated with literally the least amount of Int you can have on the class without it meaningfully affecting its core mechanics on at least one subclass. I get that this is your personal preference, but I don't think it really helps discussion to make provably false claims just to push an agenda here.

["Dr." Cupi]

I agree that plenty don't operate off of Int. My comment was not a rejection of that. It is possible for plenty to.. and plenty not to.. operate off of int. My position is that I'm very okay with that. It gives the class versatility. I like versatility in a class. Versatility in this context means that the class is not as MAD, because of D (dependent). You can build a high dex, low int turret mechanic or a high int, low dex mine mechanic. Heck, you could build a high str, low int and dex heavy armor melee drone mechanic. All of those may not be optimal builds but they are definitely viable mechanically and that is what matters to me.

[Xenocrat]

While a drone certainly can ignore all three of the feats that give it a class DC AOE attack, I don't think it's a great idea. You'll want Intelligence for that.

And with Legendary perception track, bonus advancements and feats to Crafting or Computers, and the ability to max both those and your choice of Thievery and a magic skill (helped by the Multidisciplinary Mechanic feat), you're set up to be an excellent trapfinder and disarmer. Int will help with Computers/Crafting/Arcana/Occultism - the playtest adventure hazards showed how often those come up in current designs.

[Teridax]

I don't think casuistry really helps with the fact that, as proven by the 0-Int drone Mechanic, the claim you raised that "plenty of aspects of the mechanic class operate off of int" in direct response to my example is false. It cannot be true when the class can easily build in such a way that Int doesn't factor into its core playstyle at all, and if it were true, it would be directly inconvenient to your own purposes, so I really don't understand why you even tried. The OP and others are correct to point out that the Mechanic doesn't make the best or most consistent use of their key attribute, and I do think it is worth suggesting to address that by either baking more Int dependence into their kit (my preference), or shifting their key attribute to something like Strength or Dex to enable the flexibility you want while giving them a key attribute they'll be much more likely to boost.

Where I do think no contradiction exists here is the desire for versatility and a class relying on their key attribute as intended: in 2e, classes can boost 4 attributes at a time, which means that even when boosting Int, your Mechanic will also have enough boosts to put into Dex, Con, and Wis. In fact, thanks to their medium armor proficiency, you can even try going for less Dex in some cases and more Strength. If the class depended on 5 attributes, then they'd struggle, but as it stands they have plenty of different build options at their disposal, particularly so given the number of skills they can pick up.

["Dr." Cupi]

And if you go Akitonian ysoki, you can disable device with crafting.

["Dr." Cupi]

...Teridax...

The large number of aspects of the mechanic class that utilize the class DC should be evidence enough. You can add int to damage. Not class specific but, the use of grenades and other aoe weapons use class DC. Main class skills use int. The mine subclass would be horrible without investment into int (your max mines).

Just because you can build an int independent mechanic is not strong enough evidence to override the opposing evidence of the use of int in the class chassis.

I think you have hyper fixated on a small part of the class and drawn broad sweeping conclusions.

[OrochiFuror]

You can't get by without int for turret or mines, so drones just need something tied to int for progression by default and problem solved. Int is very important to the class to do any relevant mechanic themed stuff and needed for 2 out of 3 subclasses, so I don't see the issue.

[Xenocrat]

I think a turret *can* get by without int (there's plenty of third actions to use other than the +damage mod, and Self Destruct/Area Denial System are excellent but not strictly necessary), but certainly I don't recommend only doing strikes and utility/defense stuff.

We've been looking at exocortex uses of intelligence, but there are a couple of generic mod feats that do, too. High Tech Medic (items for extra healing) and Flickering Shield (armor for temp HP and regeneration of temp HP) also use intelligence.

[Teridax]

While I do obviously support making the Mechanic more Int-dependent, I don't think you can just force Int dependence on their drone's core mechanics without making those diverge significantly from other companions. The base drone is almost entirely copy-pasted from the Inventor's construct companion (with many more options attached, though, so that's good), so unless you want to replace their 2-action Command with something Int-dependent, there's not much in the base rules for companions that will let you kludge your Int into their stats or basic actions. The Inventor gets away with having a subclass that's not Int-dependent because Overdrive, their core damage steroid, requires a Crafting check and adds bonus damage based on your Int mod, so they do need Int.

For the Mechanic, something like giving the class a number of mods equal to 2+Int instead of 6 would bake Int dependence into their core mechanics without actually changing how they'd work as a baseline at low levels. At the same time, it would also enable some flexibility if you wanted some other benefit and were ready to sacrifice one or two mods for it, so it'd be a fairly low-impact way of coupling the Mechanic and their key attribute a little better. This'd be similar to the Commander, who technically can dump Int and avoid Int-dependent tactics and feats, but still scales inherently with Int due to how it affects the number of people they can use tactics with. The dependence on Int doesn't need to be "max this out or die", it just needs to be there no matter what and meaningful enough to make some difference.

[OrochiFuror]

Xenocrat wrote:

I think a turret *can* get by without int (there's plenty of third actions to use other than the +damage mod, and Self Destruct/Area Denial System are excellent but not strictly necessary), but certainly I don't recommend only doing strikes and utility/defense stuff.

Without int it has familiar levels of health, 2 per level, I don't think that's survivable when it breaks at half HP. You also lose that much AC and saves.

I'd love to see some play experience either way, but even with full int investment I think the turret might struggle against +2 and higher heavy hitters.
I think turret is the most KAS dependent, if you want to be a mechanic who doesn't focus on int, then you pick drone.

[Xenocrat]

OrochiFuror wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

I think a turret *can* get by without int (there's plenty of third actions to use other than the +damage mod, and Self Destruct/Area Denial System are excellent but not strictly necessary), but certainly I don't recommend only doing strikes and utility/defense stuff.

Without int it has familiar levels of health, 2 per level, I don't think that's survivable when it breaks at half HP. You also lose that much AC and saves.

I'd love to see some play experience either way, but even with full int investment I think the turret might struggle against +2 and higher heavy hitters.
I think turret is the most KAS dependent, if you want to be a mechanic who doesn't focus on int, then you pick drone.

Great points, I'd overlooked or forgotten how much intelligence played into the basic defensive/durability stats.

["Dr." Cupi]

OrochiFuror wrote:

You can't get by without int for turret or mines, so drones just need something tied to int for progression by default and problem solved.

Teridax wrote:

For the Mechanic, something like giving the class a number of mods equal to 2+Int instead of 6 would bake Int dependence into their core mechanics without actually changing how they'd work as a baseline at low levels.

Teridax wrote:

The Mechanic needs to be more dependent on their key attribute, in this case Int, because having a key attribute you can straight-up ignore is poor design.

This is what I'm disagreeing with. It sounds like you are wanting to put limitations in just for the sake of Int dependence. Why? It is unnecessary.

I've already proposed two int dependent shifts:
*Class DC to weapon aoe for drones
*optional int as stat to-hit for turrets.

Both shift toward int dependence but serve a design purpose, instead of just "because I want the class to be more int dependent". The first is to reduce DC confusion when dealing with drone stuffs. The second is so that the main class feature (turret) isn't forcing MAD.

Forcing int dependence for the sake of int dependence, I would posit, is bad game design.

[OrochiFuror]

I get the feeling a lot of people will until they start playing it.
It looks like int might be the difference between crushed in one hit by anything halfway threatening and operating at peak performance. Will need to play to see where that peak is relative to on level threats as you level.
Seeing how many animal companions can lag behind at later levels I tend to worry about these types of things. Robots right now are kind of a mess but the fact I didn't see any of the mods giving stats is promising, just need to standardize a baseline as they level.

[Xenocrat]

Class DC to weapon AOE for drones might largely obsolete all other weapons at higher levels due to advanced comparative proficiency at levels 9+ and maxxed Int vs Dex/Strength that is usually one behind at all levels.

["Dr." Cupi]

Xenocrat wrote:

Class DC to weapon AOE for drones might largely obsolete all other weapons at higher levels due to advanced comparative proficiency at levels 9+ and maxxed Int vs Dex/Strength that is usually one behind at all levels.

Yeah, that's true. I just don't want to have to keep track of 2 DCs. Plus, it can already Spin to win using its own actions and using your class DC.

[OrochiFuror]

"Dr." Cupi wrote:

This is what I'm disagreeing with. It sounds like you are wanting to put limitations in just for the sake of Int dependence. Why? It is unnecessary.

I think the class is already very dependent on int, I don't think there's a problem. If a lot of the upgrades or mods tie into class DC for drones then they follow as well.

I think having a class able to drop it's KAS to 0 and function well is the worst design you could do. Forcing it to have the stat instead of rewarding it for the stat is also poor design. There should be ways to lower it a little and still be effective for certain builds and play styles, but overall your KAS should be a defining trait of any character that chooses it.

[Ryuujin-sama]

Xenocrat wrote:

I think a turret *can* get by without int (there's plenty of third actions to use other than the +damage mod, and Self Destruct/Area Denial System are excellent but not strictly necessary), but certainly I don't recommend only doing strikes and utility/defense stuff.

We've been looking at exocortex uses of intelligence, but there are a couple of generic mod feats that do, too. High Tech Medic (items for extra healing) and Flickering Shield (armor for temp HP and regeneration of temp HP) also use intelligence.

Bringing up the Flickering Shield I am wondering what happens if you make it your Enduring Mod or Permanent Mod.

Hmm looking at Permanent Mod it mentions non consumable, I am wondering if the Enduring and Permanent mod options even work for Mines.

[Teridax]

"Dr." Cupi wrote:

This is what I'm disagreeing with. It sounds like you are wanting to put limitations in just for the sake of Int dependence. Why? It is unnecessary.

Interesting how you're only viewing this as a limitation when what I'm proposing would give you access to additional mods at higher levels. It seems I'm not the one who's tunnel-visioning here.

And as stated already, by now several people, a class depending on their key attribute is a good thing. It is good to feel rewarded for investing in your class's key attribute by being directly more effective at your class's core mechanics, just as it wouldn't feel good for it to make no meaningful difference. What I'm proposing is also not a particularly severe limitation, yet even that much seems to be too much for you.

"Dr." Cupi wrote:

I've already proposed two int dependent shifts:

*Class DC to weapon aoe for drones
*optional int as stat to-hit for turrets.

And both are irrelevant, because they only apply to optional mechanics, not core parts of your class. You're not addressing the problem here, and given your protests against even the softest attempts to do so on the actual core class, methinks this is deliberate.

"Dr." Cupi wrote:

The second is so that the main class feature (turret) isn't forcing MAD.

I'm sorry, what game are you playing if you think pushing a ranged character to boost Dex constitutes "forcing MAD"? What are you even trying to do with that extra ability score you're freeing up?

["Dr." Cupi]

I guess I need to look into it to see if it "functions well" without int. The numbers suggests it functions, but I guess I'm doubting the 'well' part. Mostly because every pet option never performs 'well' in my book. I'll look back over the math.

[DeltaPangaea]

It's kind of pointless having a key ability modifier if it's not... key to your class, I'd say. Like that's the point.

["Dr." Cupi]

Update: Currently, the most optimum build for 0 int mechanic is str melee mechanic, str melee drone. It begins pretty well, but the scaling is not impressive. It's not terrible, but I wouldn't say that it achieves the 'well' of "functions well".

[OrochiFuror]

What would be the draw to a non smart mechanic? Like what are you looking for. Looking at a wizard/inventor/mechanic and saying I want to be that but less smart when all of them are highly educated smart person classes.

[Perpdepog]

Teridax wrote:

For the Mechanic, something like giving the class a number of mods equal to 2+Int instead of 6 would bake Int dependence into their core mechanics without actually changing how they'd work as a baseline at low levels. At the same time, it would also enable some flexibility if you wanted some other benefit and were ready to sacrifice one or two mods for it, so it'd be a fairly low-impact way of coupling the Mechanic and their key attribute a little better. This'd be similar to the Commander, who technically can dump Int and avoid Int-dependent tactics and feats, but still scales inherently with Int due to how it affects the number of people they can use tactics with. The dependence on Int doesn't need to be "max this out or die", it just needs to be there no matter what and meaningful enough to make some difference.

It's also got the benefit of allowing individual mods to have a tiny bit more oomph, because presumably you are not having them all be available at any one time. There's also the small but not inconsiderable benefit of the class being a bit less for new players to handle, particularly ones mostly looking to unga bunga with a big wrench alongside a robot buddy.

[PathMaster]

Teridax said wrote:

I'm sorry, what game are you playing if you think pushing a ranged character to boost Dex constitutes "forcing MAD"?

The same world where a class' KAS does not contribute to their main "to-hit" (inteded as Attack Roll, DCs and/or Class-relevant skills).

Teridax wrote:

What are you even trying to do with that extra ability score you're freeing up?

A number of things: Intimidating foes into obedience, being harder to kill or remembering your deity's teachings better.

That's the beauty of Pf2e's ability boost and skill systems: your class doesn't conpletely define your role, you can branch out without shooting yourself in the foot.

[Teridax]

PathMaster wrote:

The same world where a class' KAS does not contribute to their main "to-hit" (inteded as Attack Roll, DCs and/or Class-relevant skills).

I don't think you really understood the point here. Unless you're a Solarian, Dex is an attribute you'll always be boosting in Starfinder, because it's the attribute you use to shoot. Perhaps it could make more sense for the drone to shoot using Int, but ultimately you're using it as a ranged weapon, and will be needing Dex for Reflex saves and AC, so having to use it in some way, shape, or form isn't exactly this draconian build expectation when you have four ability boosts to spare.

PathMaster wrote:

A number of things: Intimidating foes into obedience, being harder to kill or remembering your deity's teachings better.

That's the beauty of Pf2e's ability boost and skill systems: your class doesn't conpletely define your role, you can branch out without shooting yourself in the foot.

And why is it necessary for the Mechanic to be able to dump their key attribute to become good at Intimidation without any meaningful tradeoff? Again, you seem to have missed the beauty of 2e's attribute boosts, which is that getting four of them at every attribute boost level lets you pick a variety of skills: just sticking to Dex, Int, and Wis, there's Acrobatics, Piloting, Stealth, Thievery, Computers, Crafting, Society, Arcana, Occultism, Lore of various kinds, Medicine, Nature, Religion, Survival... everything except Athletics and your Charisma skills, really, and Athletics is still something you can make good use of via Assurance. At it stands, the Mechanic has the opportunity to put their attribute boosts towards any of those skills, and there's more on offer than even their starting 8 trained skills would let them pick. Oh, and being able to boost Con also means you get to be harder to kill without sacrificing any of the above, too. This very much strikes me as this classic case of a kid stamping their feet because they only got most of the presents, when they wanted all of the presents.