| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey there, as I've finally transitioned one of my two PF-groups to 2E I started to notice a very big difference (from a tactical standpoint):
While Gnomes, Goblins and Halflings got 5 feet faster (just to name a few), humans got 5 feet slower when looking at their movement speed.
I can understand, that this was probably a design choice, which had something to do with balancing and the new action economy, but is there an in-game explanation for it, or did all the Gnomes, Halflings. etc. just wake up one morning in Arodus 4719 and decided "Oh ****! The Whispering Tyrant is back, we better start getting a little bit faster", while the humans where so shocked by those events, that they all started walking slower, 'cause they thought that Tar-Baphon would not notice them, when they move slower?
I would love for someone to explain that to me ^^
| 9 people marked this as a favorite. |
Down this path madness lies! I've seen it before! The Starfinder 1e boards were rife with 'Why can't anyone cast 9th level spells anymore? What's the in-world explanation!?' and 'Is god 'x' dead now?' posts!
More seriously though, mechanical changes between editions don't really need explanations. As far as the Pathfinder 2e characters are concerned, the average movement speed of each ancestry has always been what it currently is and there has never been a change. Outside of advancing the metaplot of the setting between editions, character have no other experience of the edition change as it mostly exists for us in the real world.
If you need an explanation for why the base movement speeds have been tweaked, then you also need one for why Bards are suddenly 9th level spellcasters, why alignment is no longer a thing, why a large and seemingly random selection of (WotC-owned) creatures are on the decline, etc, etc. Unless you want to be incredibly meta with the humor at your table, which can be a hell of a lot of fun in its own way, I wouldn't bother. If you are shooting for the incredibly meta humor, the more ridiculous the explanation the better.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's one.
Gym teachers are, in fact, a little known but fairly common type of demon. With the Worldwound closed, they no longer have easy access to Golarion. Students across the land can breathe a sigh of relief now that Coach 'Skull-Gnawer' is on an indefinite 'sabbatical'... but it does mean they've got no one invested in having them run laps to harvest their suffering.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I do agree with people saying not to try to interrogate this too closely. In this particular case, I'd also point out that you can move 3 times/turn now, not 2 like in PF1 (barring running in a straight line) - so the average move speed of ancestries tends to be reduced 25 to account for the greater number of times you can move that distance.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was trying to think of a witty joke to make, but I'm a little slow this morning.
Anyways...there isn't one. Don't try to assign a reason. The devs changed the speeds of creatures because they redesigned the system from the ground up and felt this worked better with the whole of the new system, probably a lot to do with 3 action system.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Humans aren't even actually slower, despite lower move speed. Before: they could move sixty feet in a round with no restrictions on straight lines, etc. Now: they can move seventy-five feet in a round with no restrictions.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are so many more narratively disruptive changes than this that are (rightly) left unaddressed that I'm a bit surprised to see someone focus on this one.
The three action economy means that suddenly even wizards can attack with a staff three times a turn.
Suddenly everyone except fighters forgot how to hit someone moving through their threatened squares.
There's a 10th rank of spells now.
Huge swathes of magic items just vanished overnight.
People suddenly discovered they could only wear a certain number of magic items, and way more rings than they could before for some reason.
...
I'm just surprised 5ft of movement getting shifted around in the mix to a 3 action economy raised an eyebrow.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Humans aren't even actually slower, despite lower move speed. Before: they could move sixty feet in a round with no restrictions on straight lines, etc. Now: they can move seventy-five feet in a round with no restrictions.
QuidEst has the gist of it. Humans are not slower in PF2; rather, they are faster. The speed was dropped from 30 feet to 25 feet to prevent them from becoming way faster.
In PF1 a human could take two Move actions by converting their Standard action into a Move action. At 30 feet per Move action, that lets a human move 60 feet. Characters do have the option of the full-round Run action to move at three or four times their speed, but only over flat ground in a straight line.
In PF2 a human could take their three actions as Strides. At 25 feet per Stride, that lets a human move 75 feet. The designers decided that a separate Run action was no longer necessary.
Maximum movement is not the only criterion. Suppose a human fighter without the Sudden Charge feat wishes to move to an enemy and make one attack. In PF1, that would be 30 feet as a Move action and an attack as a Standard action. In PF2, that would be 50 feet as two Stride actions and an attack as a Strike action.
During lengthy overland travel, the PF1 rules say that a human can walk 3 miles in 1 hour. The PF2 rules say that a human can walk 2.5 miles in 1 hour. PF2 travel is slower than PF1 travel. I suspect that the designers liked converting Speed of X feet per action into travel speed of miles per hour by a simple division by 10, and did not change the system just because the meaning of "per action" had changed.
As for how the fictional characters see it as they lived in a world that changed from PF1 rules to PF2 rules and PF2 Remastered rules, they think that their current rules are the way the world always worked. No merchant has declared, "The inn at the Twenty-Four Milestone used to be a day's travel away, but now it is more than a day's travel away. The building didn't move, the road hasn't been altered, and my step has not slowed down. I don't understand the mysterious change."
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Game mechanics =/= what's actually happening in-universe.
Mechanics are medium for the roleplaying, not the other way around.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
PCs can also see the Moon now. I think that'd be more concerning to a lot of them.There are so many more narratively disruptive changes than this that are (rightly) left unaddressed that I'm a bit surprised to see someone focus on this one.
The three action economy means that suddenly even wizards can attack with a staff three times a turn.
Suddenly everyone except fighters forgot how to hit someone moving through their threatened squares.
There's a 10th rank of spells now.
Huge swathes of magic items just vanished overnight.
People suddenly discovered they could only wear a certain number of magic items, and way more rings than they could before for some reason.
...
I'm just surprised 5ft of movement getting shifted around in the mix to a 3 action economy raised an eyebrow.
And the sun!
Wouldn't that be terrifying? Before, you just had all this ambient light that gave way to darkness on this oddly predictable cycle. And was sometimes punctuated with silvery light during the night, also on a predictable cycle.
Now you have this giant ball of fire hanging in the sky moving about.
It ain't right I tell ya! We need to destroy it!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What are you talking about? What I'm missing? O_oIn PF1, you could not see the sun RAW, as it would have a impossibly high dc to spot due to how far away it is.
Laughably yes. Like no one should or to my knowledge has ever played in such a way, but the argument rises from time to time about how distance penalties stack up to make celestial bodies (planets, stars, the sun, the moon) impossible to see. The counter argument has also been made that they should get a circumstance bonus due to the size of the objects, which would counteract the distance penalty. But really the situation illustrates why you can't try to do everything exactly RAW.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
PF1e had a rule of +1 to the Perception DC for every 10ft of distance an object was away.
Assuming distances equal to that of our sun and moon, the distance penalty to spotting the moon was about +125,935,200 and the sun was +4,910,000,000.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In game explanation for an abstract idea of movement? It's completely unnecessary. Movement in these types of games is arbitrary and in no way mirrors any kind of real idea of how fast an individual might move. I don't even consider.
I calculated movement in these games a while ago and it's slow for how fast a person might move, especially given things like wearing armor or wielding a weapon in battle. The fact it's the same for everyone is super ridiculous. Humans move at vastly varied speeds.
So considering an in game reality for movement with this one size fits all speeds is not something I even care about.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
PF1e had a rule of +1 to the Perception DC for every 10ft of distance an object was away.
Assuming distances equal to that of our sun and moon, the distance penalty to spotting the moon was about +125,935,200 and the sun was +4,910,000,000.
To be fair, the Moon and Sun are also both colossal objects, meaning they did have a -16 to the DC.
So they had that going for them.
We can also assume that their luminosity counts as 'favorable conditions' too so that's a DC of 125,935,182 for the moon and 4,909,999,982 for the sun!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
*scribbles down notes frantically.*
This thread is way too much fun.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Nothing to see here. Move along.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well within PF1E optimizers' grasp, I'm sure!We can also assume that their luminosity counts as 'favorable conditions' too so that's a DC of 125,935,182 for the moon and 4,909,999,982 for the sun!PF1e had a rule of +1 to the Perception DC for every 10ft of distance an object was away.
Assuming distances equal to that of our sun and moon, the distance penalty to spotting the moon was about +125,935,200 and the sun was +4,910,000,000.
To be fair, the Moon and Sun are also both colossal objects, meaning they did have a -16 to the DC.
So they had that going for them.
OMG, what have I done ^^ I will never again question the impact of rules-changes to the life of a settings inhabitants ;P