|
So not one out of the four of us has a caster as their first pick to play in our next adventure path, but the GM could be game for adapting Tyrant's Grasp to run smoothly without them (there might be a paladin or bloodrager, but likely not even a 6th level caster).
What advice would you have for the GM to keep things interesting in and out of combat with the usual setbacks possible, but no 'you've failed before you started' moments?
What advice would you have for players as we plan out our builds?
Thanks!
As someone who's played the adventure path up to the 4th book, I can say the lack of a spell caster is going to make things difficult (especially in book two and even towards the end of book one). It would be very beneficial for your GM to tweak the encounters to account for all of this, though its going to be increasingly more difficult the further you get into the adventure path. Book two has some fairly annoying status effects from encounters and traps that will make you ... suffer.
One way to get around the issue is to make sure that everyone invests into Use Magic Device so that you can make use of the items you find and even purchase some utility magic to help with things like elemental resistances and travel.
I played a fairly unusual barbarian in that game. Venerable Aasimar with the Spring Rage power. Was pretty much the party face, de-escalator of conflict, and would hulk-smash whomever decided to actually make fighting occur. He heavily invested into Use Magic Device and Item Mastery feats. Curative Mastery and Restoration Mastery where particularly useful.
Without magic probably the biggest issue is going to be healing. A paladin will really help with this as long as he has some way to boost his healing. Wands of cure light will be very important. The big issue will be condition removal and raising the dead. The paladin does get some access to these things, but usually at a latter level.
The next big issue is going to be getting rid of magic. You need at least one character that has the ability to dispel magic. The paladin does have dispel magic on his spell list but does not get it till 10th level. The paladin also will be busy providing healing, so relying on him for this is probably not a good idea. Having a character with a good UMD would be the best solution. Ideally this would be a CHA based CHA (or INT with pragmatic activator) based character with a decent amount of skill points.
I would also suggest classes that have more skills, than 2. Without magic skills can somewhat cover some of the thing's magic is used for. In this party a charismatic rogue could actually be useful. The rogue has enough skill points that maxing out UMD is not going to hurt. Rogues can also gather information and get into places others have difficulty. A slayer might work as well but does not get UMD as a class skill.
Consider going DEX based on a lot of the characters especially those that do not have stealth as a class skill. A DEX based paladin can actually be fairly effective. A DEX based paladin, swashbuckler, slayer and bloodrager would be a good mix. Have the slayer use a trait to get UMD as a class skill and have the bloodrager do the same for stealth. The paladin’s high DEX should give him at least some bonus to stealth.
|
|
ty both.
One system I want to try out before we start is the Vigor and Wounds system to make HP healing day to day less of an issue (since a cleric can make this a non-issue at the end of a day anyway with left over spells/channels).
Do you think it would be reasonable to wrap permanent debuffs into a similar system that can be treated partially with mundane means? (It seems to me it takes only a fraction of spells/day from a full caster to negate/repair these.)
|
Do you think it would be reasonable to wrap permanent debuffs into a similar system that can be treated partially with mundane means? (It seems to me it takes only a fraction of spells/day from a full caster to negate/repair these.)
While playing you want the instant/rapid removal of debuff and negative status effects. Things like Restoration to remove several negative levels before they became permanent. A Paladin can do that, but he would have to put a sizeable percentage of his resources into that.
"A fraction of spells/day" isn't a small measure. A spellcaster generally uses "a fraction of spells/day" for defense, "a fraction of spells/day" to buff himself and/or his companions, "a fraction of spells/day" to attack, and "a fraction of spells/day" to heal or remove statuses.After you have estimated "fractions of spells/day" to four different goals, you discover that the blanket is short and some part is not covered that well.
Well, unless you use the guy as a healbot.
That can be the solution: one of the characters with good charisma can take Leadership and get a cleric as a cohort. That would cover most needs of debuff removal.
As mentioned, there will likely be some shortfalls with healing and utility. A bloodrager or paladin can help a bit with the ability to use some wands and Cha for Use Magic Device checks.
Another consideration is to look at certain classes and archetypes that add abilities beyond straight combat prowess or what can be accomplished by skills. You may also want to allow Variant Multiclassing to help fill in some gaps.
For example: A fighter with many options.
|
While I can't speak for Tyrant's Grasp in particular, you might want to keep the possibility of 'Succeed at this ritual casting or progress no further' encounters in mind: We ran into three or four of these in Return of the Runelords...
Technically speaking, these encounters don't require a caster (our party's alchemist did all our ritual work), but they are the sort of thing a full martial party might have serious issues with...
Past very low level, hit point healing is cheap and available enough. It's the lack of condition removal that could really stall out this party.
|
|
Ouch.
Having just completed book 2, this will be a very difficult AP for that party. Without giving too much in the way of spoilers, the theme is survival horror. You will not be able to pick up CLW wands at the corner shop.
Hit point healing HAS been an issue for my party, even with a witch and a spiritualist. And condition removal is absolutely essential.
If your GM wants to add skews of consumables it might be possible, but it won’t be pretty.
|
|
Yeah, we are all going into this now with more a FAFO vibe, and the GM really likes the story line, so it looks like we might all around fudge the starving for resources theme with a modified Wounds and Vigor system and enough clw stashes to keep the story going, and then sink resources into scrolls and wand key rings once we can for condition removal.
|
|
Keep in mind that Scrolls/Potions/Wands all have a fixed caster level, which might be an issue with condition removal spells that require a Caster Level check (Remove Disease and Neutralize Poison come to mind).
From what I can see the DC of most disease and poison does not look to be that high. The minimum caster level for those spell are in the 5-7 range which gives you a decent chance of them working. A bad roll vs a potent disease or poison might occasionally fail, but a most of them will probably be fairly easy.
Curses on the other hand are more likely to be an issue.
The Paladin with the right mercies or spells can take care of a lot of those type afflictions.