No 6th level feats???


Rules Discussion

Radiant Oath

My cleric leveled to 6th level and gets a skill feat, but there AREN'T any 6th level feats. The highest level feat that I can select is 2nd (or 3rd, if I can sub a General feat). The next level that offers skill feats is 7th. Can I defer my selection until my character reaches 7th level? If not, I'll have to take a 2nd/3rd level feat that is really not needed at all.

Thanks


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You won't qualify for any of the 7th level skill feats until you get Master proficiency in one of your skills - also at level 7.

So no, the options are more of the Expert proficiency skill feats that are available at level 6 - the level 1 and level 2 skill feats.

And believe me, you aren't the first person who has complained that the skill feats feel lacking. If it helps, they aren't typically intended to increase your character's combat power. They are mostly orthogonal character power to combat, in fact. They are to help your character to have a game mechanics edge and improvement when doing something other than killing things.

Radiant Oath

I've already got several feats and special abilities that are pretty much useless, as they take an action in combat when you already don't have enough actions.

Anyway, the question still is, can I wait on selecting a feat until next level, to take a 7th level feat (assuming that 7th level allows me to bump my Diplomacy and Medicine to master level)?


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No


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Gradba wrote:
Anyway, the question still is, can I wait on selecting a feat until next level, to take a 7th level feat (assuming that 7th level allows me to bump my Diplomacy and Medicine to master level)?

No. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that.

Even Retraining won't let you pick a feat that you don't qualify for at the level that you gain the feat at.

So if you don't qualify for the level 7 feat - either because of lacking a prerequisite stat or simply because of the level restriction - then you can't choose that feat. The only reason that these skill feats have a level minimum of level 7 instead of level 8 is because Rogue, Investigator, Swashbuckler, and perhaps some other classes gain extra skill feats and do get a skill feat slot at level 7 that they could use to get one of those level 7 skill feats.

Similarly, you can't save up all of your skill feats throughout your entire adventuring career starting from level 2 and spend them all on Legendary tier skill feats once you get to level 15.

You are allowed to apply the benefits of each level in whatever order that you want. So at level 3 when you get a skill boost to Expert and a General feat slot, you can choose to get the skill boost first to get Expert proficiency in a skill that lets you spend your General feat on a Skill feat that requires the Expert proficiency that you gained at that level.


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Gradba wrote:

My cleric leveled to 6th level and gets a skill feat, but there AREN'T any 6th level feats. The highest level feat that I can select is 2nd (or 3rd, if I can sub a General feat). The next level that offers skill feats is 7th. Can I defer my selection until my character reaches 7th level? If not, I'll have to take a 2nd/3rd level feat that is really not needed at all.

Thanks

Despite some messiness caused by uncommon skill feats from setting books that have things like fourth-level requirements, [I]most[I] skill feats are effectively trained, expert, master, or legendary skill feats. The level requirement is just there for easy sorting. Your skill feat at 14th will probably be a 7th level skill feat, because "7th level" is the stand-in for master proficiency, and you don't hit legendary skills until 15th.

One good thing to take at those levels are skill feats that are about to scale their effects more when you increase your proficiency. Cat Fall, Group Impression, Ward Medic, etc.

Radiant Oath

Guess it's Glad Hand, then. Not terribly useful, as usually we have loads of time for a Diplomacy check.


Gradba wrote:
My cleric leveled to 6th level and gets a skill feat, but there AREN'T any 6th level feats.

That isn't entirely true. There are 6th level skill feats available through archetypes. Pathfinder Agent and Magaambyan Attendent spring to mind.

I have a list, although it might be a bit outdated.

Archetype Skill Feats


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gradba wrote:
Guess it's Glad Hand, then. Not terribly useful, as usually we have loads of time for a Diplomacy check.

The hidden advantage of Glad Hand is that it gives you a free re-roll if you botch your first check. This is true regardless of the speed of the action. What makes it wonky is that how many attempts you can make in the span of a single interaction are really vague, so if you fail your initial check your GM might just let you try again. (Often, you might need multiple checks if you are supposed to move a creature from unfriendly to helpful, for example.) But it does protect you from critically failing that first check, which is something.

Also, if you're planning to take Diplomacy to Master next level, I recommend the Shameless Request feat. It might not look important, but I've been burnt by my GM and I having very differing takes on what an "appropriate" request is. The feat prevents that.

Envoy's Alliance

I was thinking about this overnight and wondered if taking a Dedication feat of a combat class (e.g. Ranger) would be useful to give my cloistered cleric the ability to use armor. At 6th level, her AC is just 20 (dex +2), as she can't use ANY armor, and she gets critted almost every time she gets hit at this level. Even the Ranger class gets better armor than that and it would help her ranged attacks. So, would the dedication feat allow me to be trained in armor?


Ranger Dedication does not give you trained proficiency in any armor.

Rogue Dedication does give trained in light armor for some strange reason. And Champion Dedication gives you trained proficiency in all types of armor plus a later feat to give you Expert proficiency as well.

There is also the non-multiclass archetype Sentinel which is the pre-Remaster go-to for getting armor proficiencies that aren't provided in-class.

However, with the Remaster and Player Core, the general feat Armor Proficiency looks reasonable as well and is probably better than Sentinel Dedication for a class that doesn't get any armor proficiencies at all.

Player Core Armor Proficiency wrote:

You become trained in light armor. If you already were

trained in light armor, you gain training in medium armor.
If you were trained in both, you become trained in heavy
armor. If you are at least 13th level, you become an expert in
this armor type.

If this is for a PFS character, then they are already using the Player Core version of that feat.

Envoy's Alliance

I hate not taking Selective Energy, but it may be worth it to get armor proficiency, stealth, and acrobatics, as lacking those is getting me knocked out of combat and chase checks frequently. I may give it a try and if it doesn't work as intended, use a boon to rework it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Starri Volden wrote:
I hate not taking Selective Energy, but it may be worth it to get armor proficiency, stealth, and acrobatics, as lacking those is getting me knocked out of combat and chase checks frequently. I may give it a try and if it doesn't work as intended, use a boon to rework it.

3 action heal is usually a trap anyway TBH. That might be a little strong, but two action heal is usually better.


The only situation I saw 3-action healing worth in practice was when my players was surrounded by undeads and the intention was do the both heal allies and dmg undeads. But I only saw this once, as AoE DMG spell its pretty weak as AoE healing it only worth in some situations where everyone was damaged by some AoE spell but even when this happens the party healer usually just ignores while no one was severely damaged.

Due how off-encounter heal works my healers usually just uses healing spells when some one is badly hurt.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, damage tends to get concentrated into a single PC anyway. Plus the static modifiers gives you such a reliable spike of healing, where three action might roll straight ones across the board.


I pick the Skill feats most likely to be used.

Cat Fall
Nimble Crawl: eventually not flat-footed when prone.
Slippery Prey: Good against grab.
Bon Mot: If you are a diplomacy character.
Intimidating Glare: If a cha character or enough charisma.
Pilgrim's Token: Let's you go first on ties if you have religion.
Swift Leap: One action to jump.

You want to buy skill feats that improve as your proficiency goes up or that are requirements for other feats or fit your role-play or provide a useful bonus even if you don't see the benefit immediately.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Rogue dedication is great on any cloth-caster; light armor, skill, and skill feat is good value. I made a sorcerer / rogue that opened combats with maxed Deception + Incredible Initiative whenever possible and dropped a scorching ray / blazing bolt on anyone I beat. It was fun. Getting Sneak Attack on spells is a huge investment and not worth it, but Surprise Attack is built in.

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