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Out of the 20 Gods of the Inner Sea, I doubt Abadar, Asmodeus, Desna, Gozreh, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, Rovagug, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Torag, or Zon-Kuthon will be killed. They are either too powerful, have portfolios that are unique, or stories that will be completely disrupted if they are gone.
Cayden Cailean, Erastil, and Gorum are slightly less safe (IMO), but I don't see why Arazni would want to take their place. Arazni might have a beef with Urgathoa, but that would mostly remove the "evil necromantic priest BBEG" from many adventures.
I could possibly see Arazni taking over for Calistra (new god of vengeance), Iomedae (not killed, but gives up divinity to Aroden's first herald), Nethys (new god of magic), or Norgorber (new god of conspiracies, plots, and trickery?).
Killing Iomedae would have some serious repercussions of the "things got MUCH worse in a very grimdark way" on the ongoing storyline with the Gravelands.
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WotR and TG (and I would add Return of the Runelords in the same degree of impactfullness) all only really affected a single region of the setting, and background "lesser deities", so they are quite a bit less impactfull than what War of the Immortal promises to be if it shake up the core pantheon, and possibly larger part of golarion.
Not that it's inherently bad, it doesn't seems to be a comicbook level "the world will never be the same!!!" event, but it still promises to be the most impactfull event yet, so I can understand why people would be wary.
I see what you mean. I meant the setting as the Inner Sea Region. Not the whole of Golarion.
I also meant the inner sea region, WotR only really affected Sarkoris, Mendev and the followers of Deskari, Tyran's Grasp only really affected the surrounding of the Eye of Dread and Geb, and created a new minor (so far) godess in Arazni, and Return of the Runelords only really affected Varisia, the neighbouring countries and Nocticula's faith. Losing any of those would have have far more reaching implications (as is the case for most AP), but by winning, the real shakeup turned out to be mostly regionnal, none of this really changed how the River Kingdoms, Osirion or Cheliax worked for exemple.
Removing one of the core deity meanwhile promize to shakeup the whole inner sea region (and truly, the whole of golarion), so it's a bigger change of status quo.
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Killing Iomedae would have some serious repercussions of the "things got MUCH worse in a very grimdark way" on the ongoing storyline with the Gravelands.
Fitting though, considering Arazni, the confirmed new Core 20 Member, is already empowering a major faction of the Knights there. Would make sense for her to become the Knights full-time patron as a result.
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Killing Iomedae would have some serious repercussions of the "things got MUCH worse in a very grimdark way" on the ongoing storyline with the Gravelands.Fitting though, considering Arazni, the confirmed new Core 20 Member, is already empowering a major faction of the Knights there. Would make sense for her to become the Knights full-time patron as a result.
And unfortunately, taking something optimistic away and replacing it with something pessimistic sells.
I wanted to say that the proeminence of Irabeth the paladin of Iomedae as a big NPC in various books (being the first NPC of the setting that show up in the new GM core book) make killing Iomedae unlikely, but who am I kidding. Pushing her to the forefront to then have her reckon with the death of her godess, and thus represent every PC that have to reckon with the same thing, would make perfect sense.
It would actually explain rather well why she is still so proeminent despite not being a "big political figure", and despite her story having somewhat already been told. The only reason why I'm not betting on Iomedea right now is because Arazni isn't supposed to take the dead god portfolio, but given her history and how the setting is right now, I don't see how she can not take the crusader god portfolio if Iomedae get killed.
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If Lamashtu dies raining the afterbirth of bestial horrors down onto Golarion, I will personal devote all future characters to her worship, even if they can never possibly cast a divine spell. If it is her, and she dies any other way, my characters will all forsake all gods forever.
Ah yes. Just looked at the Core 20 in my bright and shiny new Player Core. That is...unfortunate?
Bad if you were that one deity. I guess unless you have a really, really, relativistic view on existence. "It was my time..."
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If Lamashtu dies raining the afterbirth of bestial horrors down onto Golarion, I will personal devote all future characters to her worship, even if they can never possibly cast a divine spell. If it is her, and she dies any other way, my characters will all forsake all gods forever.
Whoever dies, Paizo should title the relevant AP book "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs Godsrain".
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Iomedae's death empowering a bunch of Exemplars to fight on and potentially rise as new heroes - while also forcing Arazni to confront how many people need her - is just so perfect.
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I also kind of like Zyphus and I wouldn't mind him getting to chill and have a beer with me. Comparing Zyphus to Naderi who is also very attractive
Zyphus would be interesting
he could always get expanded bc he is already very swole and strong
thx dudes preciate the support. don't forget to like and subscribe
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APs also tend to not be setting-shattering events as long as the PCs win.
Indeed. Years back, this was a major topic on these boards...
Because most APs revolve around the PCs stopping epic(ly terrible) world-shaking events from happening.
Yup, most AP are either a near complete return to the status quo (like rise of the runelords), or a "step in the right direction" that still leave the status quo largely unchanged, it's just that thing have an opportunity to start to get better now (like council of thieves). Even AP that does significantly shake up the world limit themselves to a few regions, without affecting anything massively. For the moment, I don't think there is a single one truly "setting changing" AP that affected Golarion or the inner sea as a whole.
I'd say the most far reaching are Wrath of the Righteous, Return of the Runelords, Tyran's Grasp and Strength of Thousands, all having rather big impact in their respective regions, but not really affecting things much beyond them. Maybe Iron Gods too, but I'm not that aware of numeria, so I don't know how deeply the AP affected it.
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Maybe Iron Gods too, but I'm not that aware of numeria, so I don't know how deeply the AP affected it.
Iron Gods you wind up with
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Maybe Iron Gods too, but I'm not that aware of numeria, so I don't know how deeply the AP affected it.Iron Gods you wind up with ** spoiler omitted **
It's worth saying that 2e has committed to a pretty benevolent take on Casandalee as the canon outcome.
I also kind of like Zyphus and I wouldn't mind him getting to chill and have a beer with me. Comparing Zyphus to Naderi who is also very attractiveZyphus would be interestinghe could always get expanded bc he is already very swole and strongthx dudes preciate the support. don't forget to like and subscribe
SIGH FINE I'LL WORSHIP YOU, if that makes you ha-- *dies, accidentally*
Since they’re going to off one of the big twenty … will future versions of the Player Core need to be reprinted with Arazni and will those of us who adopted early need to draw a big X over the dead god’s writeup in our copies?
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Since they’re going to off one of the big twenty … will future versions of the Player Core need to be reprinted with Arazni and will those of us who adopted early need to draw a big X over the dead god’s writeup in our copies?
I mean, they didn't redraw any maps in PF1 books after Ravounel gained its independence from Cheliax, since maybe people hadn't gotten around to playing Hell's Rebels yet. I imagine War of Immortals is going to be kind of like that, where we're not going to insist on its canonicity when people might not have played the attached story yet.
For PF3 we're going to update the set.
he could always get expanded bc he is already very swole and strongthx dudes preciate the support. don't forget to like and subscribe
I somehow don't remember writing that. Nor do I remember liking your post. Something's wrong is afoot here.
Since they’re going to off one of the big twenty … will future versions of the Player Core need to be reprinted with Arazni and will those of us who adopted early need to draw a big X over the dead god’s writeup in our copies?I mean, they didn't redraw any maps in PF1 books after Ravounel gained its independence from Cheliax, since maybe people hadn't gotten around to playing Hell's Rebels yet. I imagine War of Immortals is going to be kind of like that, where we're not going to insist on its canonicity when people might not have played the attached story yet.
For PF3 we're going to update the set.
Fair enough, I guess.
Also never mentioned my other PF character, Zort the ‘dwarf’ wizard. She picked Irez to hit her older brother’s anathema buttons, so if the Lady of Inscribed Wonder ends up as collateral damage Zort would shrug and find another bookish/literary deity.
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I am very pleased to see that people are having as much fun with this as we are in the office.
This is why I think Paizo's maintained my loyalty over...
Oh god.
I got old.
Anyway!
You guys have some of that, "we play too" vibe that kinda evaporated when WotC swooped in and scooped up TSR.
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I give up trying to run Paizo APs.
Because it’s already a case of 1e, 2e or 2e remastered, so which rules do the not very rules-oriented players in our group have to remember this time?
If you also have to add in ”pre- or post- death of (insert deity), pre- or post- destruction of (insert country)”.. or whatever shennanigans Paizo pulls next people get confused about their knowledge of the gameworld.
Trying to pick an AP with a theme that all the players like, with a ruleset they all have access to and can remember (yes I know AoN exists, but we aren’t always on line) and now a confusion about the world state at the point at which that AP was written just becomes one complication too many.
TLDR it feels like a plot for devoted Paizo fans and a disincentive for more casual players.
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I give up trying to run Paizo APs.
Because it’s already a case of 1e, 2e or 2e remastered, so which rules do the not very rules-oriented players in our group have to remember this time?If you also have to add in ”pre- or post- death of (insert deity), pre- or post- destruction of (insert country)”.. or whatever shennanigans Paizo pulls next people get confused about their knowledge of the gameworld.
Trying to pick an AP with a theme that all the players like, with a ruleset they all have access to and can remember (yes I know AoN exists, but we aren’t always on line) and now a confusion about the world state at the point at which that AP was written just becomes one complication too many.
TLDR it feels like a plot for devoted Paizo fans and a disincentive for more casual players.
I'd note that no nations have been destroyed during 2e, so that feels like an odd one to list; Lastwall blew up at the end of 1e, and there hasn't been anything equivalent since.
Golarion's always moved forward, ever since the outset - the Runelords popping back up was, itself, a change, and Pathfinder Society's been around for ages. It being a living campaign setting is a big part of the appeal for over a decade now! If you want something more static, those options exist.
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I give up trying to run Paizo APs.
Because it’s already a case of 1e, 2e or 2e remastered, so which rules do the not very rules-oriented players in our group have to remember this time?If you also have to add in ”pre- or post- death of (insert deity), pre- or post- destruction of (insert country)”.. or whatever shennanigans Paizo pulls next people get confused about their knowledge of the gameworld.
Trying to pick an AP with a theme that all the players like, with a ruleset they all have access to and can remember (yes I know AoN exists, but we aren’t always on line) and now a confusion about the world state at the point at which that AP was written just becomes one complication too many.
TLDR it feels like a plot for devoted Paizo fans and a disincentive for more casual players.
I feel most APs do not rely much on outside events, so the world state should not usually matter. As for the ruleset, I feel thar, for players who are not rules-oriented, it is much less of a problem than if you have rules lawyers around the table. Though the former puts most of the weight of the rules knowledge on the GM IME. Which I do not mind TBT.
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I give up trying to run Paizo APs.
Because it’s already a case of 1e, 2e or 2e remastered, so which rules do the not very rules-oriented players in our group have to remember this time?If you also have to add in ”pre- or post- death of (insert deity), pre- or post- destruction of (insert country)”.. or whatever shennanigans Paizo pulls next people get confused about their knowledge of the gameworld.
Trying to pick an AP with a theme that all the players like, with a ruleset they all have access to and can remember (yes I know AoN exists, but we aren’t always on line) and now a confusion about the world state at the point at which that AP was written just becomes one complication too many.
TLDR it feels like a plot for devoted Paizo fans and a disincentive for more casual players.
And honestly? The reflection of our world in published works need not reflect what happens at your table. Plenty of people here will tell you that they ignored THIS plot hook or their players chose THAT ending to that AP. Rule #1 is make it fun for those who are playing. Kill a different god. Dont kill a god. Change whatever you like. We provide a POSSIBLE way forward, but it is far from the only one.
That being said? Play what makes you happy absolutely and always| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, I fully expect in some people's War of the Immortals campaigns there are going to be extra deities dying. It would be disappointing if it's not structured in a way that tables can't finally get their revenge against [whoever] then that would be disappointing.
Like I would not be surprised if Ihys is the Lord of Hell by the end of our campaign. That honestly feels like a way to resolve our "Hell's Vengeance Failed, Westcrown is an independent Semi-Enclave" puzzle.
I feel like the impact of most AP's is pretty geographically locked. You don't tend to see their impacts on the canon of the rest of the setting until an edition change. The remaster broke that rule a little, but mostly in drow being gone and stuff being renamed.
I'm not sure how much the death of a major deity changes things beyond "oh hey that happened," but I could be wrong. It doesn't feel like an incredibly complicated piece of canon to ingest.
Even name changes aren't that big of a deal. It's just updating us on what the in-world word has been all along, while we've been using shorthand in the meanwhile.
‘So THAT’S why the wizard keeps calling me an amurrun?’
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I give up trying to run Paizo APs.
Because it’s already a case of 1e, 2e or 2e remastered, so which rules do the not very rules-oriented players in our group have to remember this time?
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Whichever rules the GM wants to use. Conversion's really not especially difficult, and there's truckloads of material for 1E and 2E by now, so...
If you also have to add in ”pre- or post- death of (insert deity), pre- or post- destruction of (insert country)”.. or whatever shennanigans Paizo pulls next people get confused about their knowledge of the gameworld.
Given how many APs are about stopping major changes to the setting...
