Can you not turn a verdant weapon into a sword? Or can you turn it into a wooden sword?
In other words, is the "no metal" mentioned in the feat text a limitation, or a description that the resulting weapon it becomes has no metal in it?
I ask because I'm planning on playing a ghoran druid, and I want to be able to wield it as a glaive or scythe, via my Ghoran Weapon Familiarity feat.
If I cannot transform it into a glaive or scythe, what CAN I transform it into? Last time I checked, even staffs used for war were often capped in metal. Could I make a sharpened stick (spear), or is that out too due to spears sometimes having metal heads?
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Your weapon options seem to be:
Club
Staff
Fangwire (Maybe)
Fighting Stick
Nunchaku
Probing Cane
Sansetsukon
Tonfa
Whipstaff
Atlatl (but not the darts it uses for ammo)
Boomerang
Shortbow (Composite version is a 'maybe')
Longbow (Composite version is a 'maybe')
Daikyu
Thorn Whip
Whip
Aren't the hinges of nunchaku and sansetsukon made of metal?
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Aren't the hinges of nunchaku and sansetsukon made of metal?
They don't have hinges. The sections are connected by rope or chain and we know that the verdant weapon can make vine ropes.
The nunchaku is constructed of two wooden or metal bars connected by a short length of rope or chain.
The sansetsukon, also known as a sanjiegun or three-section staff, is made up of three wooden staff segments, each about 14 inches in length. The staff sections are connected by short lengths of cord or chain, similar to nunchaku.
Well, at least we have that.
Personally I feel the list of available weapons is still rather limited, and would prefer it be that the end result of a weapon is made of wood, rather than base weapons not be an option if they involve metal.
To be honest, there isn't much benefit to using a verdant weapon over a normal weapon (and a druid can use a metal weapon just fine).
Druids are already constrained by weapon proficiency to simple weapons.
And generally speaking, I think a druid focused on wild shaping ends up better offensively than one focused on weapon use. So why hold them back in this way.
For the usefulness of Verdant Weapon, I see it as being about equivalent to other options meant for infiltration missions or other scenario types where the characters want or need to appear to be unarmed. Another one that comes to mind immediately is Magus's Spirit Sheath.
As for materials, personally I consider 'wood' to be one of the material types available for crafting things out of. So with a few exceptions for things that would be completely implausible from a narrative standpoint (such as leather armor or rope), I don't see anything wrong with allowing it to be an Uncommon material to make things out of such as swords and scale mail.
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It also turns your main weapon into your primal focus, so you don't have to either switch back-and-forth between your focus and your weapon, or occupy both of your hands with both of them. Makes having a weapon-and-shield build more possible, too.
We got at least darkwood and peach wood listed in the materials
RAW verdant weapon says:
You spend 10 minutes focusing primal energy into a seed, imprinting it with the potential of a single level 0 weapon you are trained with and that has no mechanical parts or metal components.
since the first line is mostly flavor in feats one could argue that weapons made from other non-metal materials like:
-'bone' which also incorporates other sturdy animal materials-warpglass
-stone
-certain leathers
are also eligible for verdant weapon
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The problem is that if you start allowing things that can be made out of alternate non-metal materials you end up with everything being allowed.
Because with warpglass for example, you can make any weapon.
So the restriction in verdant weapon is probably just looking at base weapons only. In addition, special materials definitely increase the level of a weapon so that it's not level 0. To me, that clearly says using any weapon special material to qualify is a no go.
Here is my current list.
Take away those that the druid isn't proficient in, that you likely don't have access to (that are Uncommon), and that require additional components (such as ammunition) and you have...
...the club and the staff.
I could get that without spending a feat by saying I pick up a stick off the ground.
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Here is my current list.Take away those that the druid isn't proficient in, that you likely don't have access to (that are Uncommon), and that require additional components (such as ammunition) and you have...
...the club and the staff.
I could get that without spending a feat by saying I pick up a stick off the ground.
Well then, I apologize for trying to be helpful. I'll mute this thread so that I don't bother you again.
I could get that without spending a feat by saying I pick up a stick off the ground.
But you won't be able to transform it into a seed or use it as a focus or later take another feat to treat it as cold iron and silver (although I wouldn't blame you for not looking at the latter level 10 is kind of out there).
It's expensive, but peachwood weapons are an option at high level play.
Also, per the rules on magical staves, "staves are also staff weapons. They can be etched with fundamental runes but not property runes. This doesn't alter any of their spellcasting abilities."
While this is correct, there aren't usually many sticks lying around banquets, for example...Here is my current list.Take away those that the druid isn't proficient in, that you likely don't have access to (that are Uncommon), and that require additional components (such as ammunition) and you have...
...the club and the staff.
I could get that without spending a feat by saying I pick up a stick off the ground.
Plenty of chair legs and table legs and the like though.
The more I read, the more the feat seems to be either for Crossclassing or a Trap Option
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Or a roleplay option. It might be attractive for aesthetic reasons. It lands somewhere between mixed and low for power considerations.
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Are Composite Bows permitted as Verdant Weapon options, as the base item level is higher than 0.
I expect it was an oversight with the intent just being "Base Weapons" without special materials. 41 base weapons are level 1 or higher.
Druids are not martials unless they are Untamed Form druids, so an interesting feat that modifies weapons is really for multiclass druids - which makes Pristine Weapon come waaay too late (level 20) and is terrible design - class feats should be best for the specified class.
It needs errata to improve a druid's attack rolls and just make the feats more interesting, such as:
VERDANT WEAPON
- The druid can choose any base weapon he/she is proficient in, and the seed creates a wooden version of it as part of the ritual (no mechanical effect except it is immune to rust and counts as wood for all effects). Ammunition still needs to be supplied if required. (Yes, wooden firearms would be weird, but why not!)
- At 5th level, raise the proficiency with the Verdant Weapon to expert for the druid.
- A Verdant Weapon can never be lost. The druid can use an Interact action to cause the Verdant Weapon (in either form) to teleport to his hand (requires an empty hand). If it is a two-handed weapon, the druid will need to change his grip to wield it.
PRISTINE WEAPON
- Change the feat to level 8
- The Pristine Weapon gains the effects of a common property rune which could be applied to the base weapon, up to the druid's level-2. This does not count as taking up a property rune slot and has no cost. The chosen property rune may be changed to a different common property rune when the druid levels up.
- At 13th level, raise the proficiency with the Verdant Weapon for the druid to master.
I don't know about needing errata. The balance concerns that you are bringing up don't seem to apply to all Druid or Druid Archetype characters - only the ones that you favor.
So you would get better results from requesting houserules from your gaming group.
As for simply allowing Verdant Weapon to become level 1 items as well - such as the composite bows - that seems like a reasonable houserule.
I'm not convinced that either of your proposed new versions of Verdant Weapon or Pristine Weapon are all that reasonable. They seem tailor made to turn a Druid into a gish while costing nothing more than a couple of feats.
To homebrew a Druid gish it would be better done as a class archetype. And they would have to give up quite a bit of their spellcasting (see Magus compared to Wizard for similar conversion).
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Note that composite bows often made of more than just wood, making their usage questionable regardless of item level:A composite bow is a bow made from many different materials. Composite bows can be made from any combination of horn, antler, bamboo, wood, or sinew. These materials are typically laminated together with glue.
Materials such as horn or antler are added to composite bows because they have extraordinary compression strength, which compliments the equally phenomenal tensile strength of sinew. This greatly increases the energy-storing potential of a composite bow, relative to its length.The traditional English/Welsh longbow is technically not a composite bow as it is made from a single piece of wood that has properties similar to a composite bow's structure (heartwood on the inside handles compression well while the softer sapwood on the outside handles tension well)....
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I don't know about needing errata. The balance concerns that you are bringing up don't seem to apply to all Druid or Druid Archetype characters - only the ones that you favor.
I see your point. The Verdant Weapon feats, at least to me, are almost purely flavour - which kinda sucks. Yet to make them useful, by its nature, makes them step on martial's toes. The problem with the War Priest (Cleric) that was somewhat fixed in the remaster comes to mind: they needed martial proficiency to use a weapon at higher levels. (I still think giving them mastery at 19th level is a bit late.)
The Battle Harbinger seeks to make the Cleric a full martial by nerfing their spellcasting to Bounded Spellcasting (among other restrictions). I haven't tested this class, so I don't know how strong/weak it is.
Overall, on reflection it seems the feats are doomed to be unbalanceable.