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But when could you reasonably access that? At minimum that's a +2 weapon. 8000g. With expected wealth by level, that's level 8. If crafting is available, then you could maybe make one at level 5, though you'd likely have to wait for level 6. That's just not reliable enough for a lot of people.
I hardly think that an extra 3 to 5 damage per attack is actually worth that much gold investment anyway. I pretty much ignore that weapon enchantment's existence and only bother with Dex to damage when it comes as a class feature.
Sure, its nice if you need to pinch out every single bit of damage from every source you can but outside of certain games of a particular power level, I have better things to spend my feats and gold on. Especially when I am playing a Magus that is already capable of some robust burst damage.
could use a rapier with the agile enchantment for dex to damage
Around level 8, which is more than halfway through most campaigns. Dervish dance comes online around 2 or 3 ?
Those two feats could be spent on unhindering shield to make a sword and board magus. Or on combat maneuver. Or on armor proficiency that later gets retrained. Or on more arcane point. Etc.
Armor that slows down a class built around being in melee.
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Armor that slows down a class built around being in melee.
Not really. You still have options like Bladed Dash, and eventually multiple methods of flight. 20 vs 30 feet of movement shouldn't make a difference to a magus most of the time.
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Armor that slows down a class built around being in melee.Not really. You still have options like Bladed Dash, and eventually multiple methods of flight. 20 vs 30 feet of movement shouldn't make a difference to a magus most of the time.
Which burn spell slots you want to be using zapping people. It also keeps you from doing your zapwhack, which is the entire point of the class.
20 vs, 30 feet is pretty big. it's very often the difference between getting to be effective or just wasting your turn walking.
The cookie cutter magus got to be that way for a lot of good reasons. It wasn't just some random social development or herd mentality. In actual play where you couldn't just theorycraft a character into existance at 8 it;s by far the best option over the length of your career.
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Bladed Dash "zaps" people. And the flying options grant other benefits.
A magus never needs to "waste" his turn. He can either burn common spells like blade dash at the beginning of a fight to get going. Or he can buff while closing, like casting haste for the party. You could even cast a fireball at a distance before your allies get mixed in with your enemies.
And spell recall means that you can do those things pretty much every combat.
Armor that slows down a class built around being in melee.Not really. You still have options like Bladed Dash, and eventually multiple methods of flight. 20 vs 30 feet of movement shouldn't make a difference to a magus most of the time.Which burn spell slots you want to be using zapping people. It also keeps you from doing your zapwhack, which is the entire point of the class.
20 vs, 30 feet is pretty big. it's very often the difference between getting to be effective or just wasting your turn walking.
The cookie cutter magus got to be that way for a lot of good reasons. It wasn't just some random social development or herd mentality. In actual play where you couldn't just theorycraft a character into existance at 8 it;s by far the best option over the length of your career.
Dimensional Dervish was fun with a Magus, There's argument for being able to spell combat during the hopping as well. Allows you to pretty much attack anywhere you want. combined with a way to get sneak attack and suddenly you're dealing a lot of damage.
Bladed Dash "zaps" people.
It doesn't. that spellslot and action could instead be used to cast shocking grasp (or more likely a wayang spell hunter empowered shocking grasp) for 5d6 + damage and the difference is only going to get bigger a you level. Or you could save the bladed dash for walking up the Mr. Tentacles instead of mook 1.
Armor slows down fly speeds too.
The dex magi just works better and works for more of your career.
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Either light or heavy are going to have to close to melee either way. As I’ve demonstrated, the speed difference is negligible for most occurrences, if you play just slightly intelligently
Either light or heavy are going to have to close to melee either way. As I’ve demonstrated, the speed difference is negligible for most occurrences, if you play just slightly intelligently
you stated that. You did not demonstrate it. Your idea of intelligent play is to burn spell slots and actions to make up for a slow movement speed in order to gain.. what exactly has the heavy armor magus gained?
And at the cost of working less effectively for most of their likely careers.
Again. Every time someone has to say they're using superior play, I at best see no evidence. You again demonstrate the opposite.
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The class only cares about crit range on a weapon and not the multiplier. Meaning every magus wants an 18-20 weapon.
needing the free hand means you need a 1 handed weapon
Getting heavier armor later in your career means you have to build to do without it which means.. you do without it.
Building without it means a dex build. There is only one handed 18-20 weapon that can be used with dex to damage.. the scimitar. You can only do this as a worshiper of saranrae with dervish dance.
So you have a non religious arcane class that plinkos into worshiping one specific deity And every magus winds up looking the same.
Even assuming that having an high dexterity is needed (I disagree), there are other ways to get dex to damage.
When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).
"Trrath as ..." isn't the same as "you have a free hand", so this feat is a bit questionable.
Benefit: When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied.
Spell combat doesn't occupy your other hand.
Benefit: When wielding a spiked chain one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The spiked chain must be one appropriate for your size. During your turn, you treat your reach with the spiked chain as 5 feet greater. You lose these benefits while fighting with multiple weapons or when using a shield (but not when using a buckler).
It even increases your reach for spellstrike.
Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.
Again the "occupied" thing.
Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.
Your other hand must be free, and you "use it up" by casting a spell. I think it fulfills the "unoccupied" requirement. YMMV
The part about it not working with two weapons fighting can be more of a problem, but it is the usual problem with spell combat, it is "like two-weapon fighting", but actually it isn't like it at all. That phrase is more fluff than an applicable rule.
Which burn spell slots you want to be using zapping people. It also keeps you from doing your zapwhack, which is the entire point of the class.
No. It’s half the point of the class.
The cookie cutter magus got to be that way for a lot of good reasons. It wasn't just some random social development or herd mentality. In actual play where you couldn't just theorycraft a character into existance at 8 it;s by far the best option over the length of your career.
Using Spell Combat to raise defenses that give you a 25-80 percent chance of negating an attack regardless of your AC or to allow you to pounce, among other things, by level 4, is not theorycrafting. It’s logical play.
It doesn't.Bladed Dash "zaps" people.
It does. It’s an extra attack at your highest BAB on top of your full attack, made after taking an entire move action without provoking attacks of opportunity—a consideration every Magus must face, nor matter their armor. I won’t lie, this particular opinion honestly mystifies me.
The dex magi just works better and works for more of your career.
For you, sure. For me, Color Spray largely made Dexterity an irrelevance until my Magus reached 4th level, at which point it became mostly an afterthought—skill checks aside.
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It doesn't.Bladed Dash "zaps" people.
It does. It’s an extra attack at your highest BAB on top of your full attack, made after taking an entire move action without provoking attacks of opportunity—a consideration every Magus must face, nor matter their armor. I won’t lie, this particular opinion honestly mystifies me.
The magus will add his intelligence to that too hit, so, even at low levels, a minimum of +2 and generally a +3.
Even better, it can be used to move away from the enemy after making a full attack while still delivering a parting blow.
Yeah, and as a circumstance bonus, at that, which means it will stack with pretty much every common buff. Bladed Dash is just excellent all around. For me, it’s one of the signature Magus spells.
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Slashing Grace: In the 2nd printing errata, what exactly does it mean that “You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied?” Can I use a shield? What about a buckler? Can I use flurry of blows? Brawler’s flurry? Two-weapon fighting? Spell combat? Attack with natural weapons? What if I throw the weapon? What about swordmaster’s flair?
Benefit: When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied.Spell combat doesn't occupy your other hand.
Slashing Grace does not allow most shields, but bucklers work because they don’t occupy the hand. Flurry of blows, brawler’s flurry, two-weapon fighting, and spell combat all don’t work with Slashing Grace. Attacking with natural weapons beyond the weapon you chose for Slashing Grace also does not work. Slashing Grace only works with melee attacks, not thrown attacks with a melee weapon. Swordmaster’s flair should have a sentence added to it that says “Carrying a swordmaster’s flair counts as having that hand free for the purpose of abilities that require a free hand, though you still can’t hold another object in that hand.”
posted July 2015
It does. It’s an extra attack at your highest BAB on top of your full attack, made after taking an entire move action without provoking attacks of opportunity—a consideration every Magus must face, nor matter their armor. I won’t lie, this particular opinion honestly mystifies me.
Thats whack whack not zap whack. Sure, you're getting 1d6+ 8 ish twice at -2 -2? Or you could get 1d6+8 and 5d6 (possibly x 1.5 with wayang spell hunter) at a likely +3. Bladed dash is amazing but you can't spam it.
I don't know how many times I've seen theorycrafted melee that have trouble getting into position every round. (To the point that I've made multiple casters who's primary function is to place the quizinart next to the target with no impedements or penalties...)
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Elven chain still exists. +6 to AC, light armor, and 30' of movement. At low levels the limit to +4 cor the dexterity bonus will not be a problem.
BNW, you are forgetting the attack bonus of Bladed dash. Shocking grasp is +3 for the spell, -2 for spell combat, bladed dash is +3 for intelligence, -2 for spell combat.
You seem to have fixed on a "maximum damage" build and discarded all other options. So, you are playing a Minatan follower of Sarenrae as the only option. Boring.
Name Violation, thanks for the FAQ. So all feats that require a free hand are excluded.
Thats whack whack not zap whack.
with respect, that’s semantics/word-play. Unless your argument really is that Spellstrike is all a Magus should be doing, and that other dedicated spellcasters should be responsible for all other magic that affects him.
Sure, you're getting 1d6+ 8 ish twice at -2 -2? Or you could get 1d6+8 and 5d6 (possibly x 1.5 with wayang spell hunter) at a likely +3. Bladed dash is amazing but you can't spam it.
I don't know how many times I've seen theorycrafted melee that have trouble getting into position every round. (To the point that I've made multiple casters who's primary function is to place the quizinart next to the target with no impedements or penalties...)
No, what you’re getting is that damage while also solving conundrum of placing the quizinart next to the target, without an AOO, without dedicated casters, while getting a bonus on that attack—not a penalty.
And that’s just at lower levels, right? By 10th level, Magical Lineage and Quicken Spell open the doors to all sorts of synergy between the bread-and-butter Shocking Grasp and spells that will either get your Magus pouncing, denying the enemy their attacks, or extricating himself from the melee—which goes a long way toward addressing the relatively lackluster 4th- and 5th-level spells on offer.
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Thats whack whack not zap whack.with respect, that’s semantics/word-play.
That isn't word play at all. That's words describing something and the differences are pretty big.
(and numerous cases of spelling out what the words mean just in case you missed it) Two hits from the sword just do not do the same damage as one hit from the sword and one spell of the level as bladed dash. Is bladed dash good? Yes. Is it as good as shocking grasp at damaging? No. So do you lose a fair bit of damage when your slow tin can keister has to cast bladed dash instead of shocking grasp.other dedicated spellcasters should be responsible for all other magic that affects him.
No. I'm saying that if the gap between theorycrafting and working is a big enough niche that another character can fill it the theorycrafting has messed up.
And that’s just at lower levels, right? By 10th level
... You need to GET there. Thats starting to hit post mortem on a lot of campaigns, the end of most of them. You have to play the character through those lower levels and thats exactly the bad design the OP was talking about that leads to the saranite cookie cutter.
Muscle magi might come together at level 10 after 10 levels of suckage and suddenly be a very viable (though no one is demonstrating superior) build when 10 feet of movement doesn't matter because of quickened haste or whatever. Because the muscle magi either can't start with better armor they have to make a character viable for levels 1-6 (likely at least half the campaign) and once you've selected stats and feats to do that you're stuck with them. The magi getting medium armor mid career is a left turn you really can't follow in a system where so many of your mechanics are decided at level 1.
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That FAQ missed the fact that a buckler does not count as a free hand unless you have unhindering shield.
Benefit: You still gain a buckler’s bonus to AC even if you use your shield hand for some other purpose.
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm.
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You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn.
Your hand is free, but you lose the buckler AC bonus without the feat.
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And that’s just at lower levels, right? By 10th level... You need to GET there. Thats starting to hit post mortem on a lot of campaigns, the end of most of them. You have to play the character through those lower levels and thats exactly the bad design the OP was talking about that leads to the saranite cookie cutter.
Muscle magi might come together at level 10 after 10 levels of suckage and suddenly be a very viable (though no one is demonstrating superior) build when 10 feet of movement doesn't matter because of quickened haste or whatever. Because the muscle magi either can't start with better armor they have to make a character viable for levels 1-6 (likely at least half the campaign) and once you've selected stats and feats to do that you're stuck with them. The magi getting medium armor mid career is a left turn you really can't follow in a system where so many of your mechanics are decided at level 1.
Ok, so your argument is "campaigns die by level 10, so the only viable build is one that works at low levels."
1) There is a whole thread about how long campaigns last in this forum: How many of your games actually go past level 10, the impression I have got is that about 40% of the players' groups routinely stop before level 10, 40% regularly go well beyond it, and the other 10% has variable results and/or non-standard starts.
So "levels 1-6 are at least half" of the campaign is true for the groups that routinely stop playing at around level 10. It isn't true for all groups.
2) Any character needs to survive his initial levels and I don't see where a magus suffers more than other classes while playing them.
If you feel that the choices you are "forced" to make at those levels "ruin" your character, you can always retrain.
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I don't know how many times I've seen theorycrafted melee that have trouble getting into position every round. (To the point that I've made multiple casters who's primary function is to place the quizinart next to the target with no impedements or penalties...)
I feel like you're the one theorycrafting here. Have you actually tried playing a strength magus before. Because I have and it worked very well.
That isn't word play at all. That's words describing something and the differences are pretty big.
(and numerous cases of spelling out what the words mean just in case you missed it) Two hits from the sword just do not do the same damage as one hit from the sword and one spell of the level as bladed dash. Is bladed dash good? Yes. Is it as good as shocking grasp at damaging? No. So do you lose a fair bit of damage when your slow tin can keister has to cast bladed dash instead of shocking grasp.
I'm sorry, but you're missing the point entirely.
Labeling and prioritizing things without regard as to whether or not they're viable is wordplay. Your entire argument is predicated on a Dexterity-focused Magus with light armor having superior mobility, but whether your speed is 20 or 30 (more on that in a second), you're still expending a move action and provoking an attack of opportunity to get into melee, at which point you're getting a single Spellstrike attack. If you're within reach to begin with, then this entire conversation is moot for either type of Magus.
It should also go without saying that we won't agree on how you view or present damage numbers. At level 4, when I my Magus gets Bladed Dash, Shocking Grasp averages 14 points of damage, on top of a weapon attack that does, what, 8.5 non-critical damage on average at that level (assuming a +1 weapon and the Magus adding Keen to it)? I absolutely do find value in doing about 5.5 less damage with my bonus attack from Bladed Dash in exchange for discounting any AOO considerations. It's not until level 8-9 when the damage gap becomes meaningful (thanks to Intensified Spell)--and at that point I have an iterative attack that more or less erases it. And I have a choice of Arcana that either give me a really good chance of hitting with it, or guarantee that it will. By level 10, when a non-Empowered Shocking Grasp hits its peak, my Magus can cast a Quickened Shocking Grasp in conjunction with his pouncing Bladed Dash, making the whole argument moot.
Again, that's not theorycrafting. That's logical play based on averages and available resources, without assumptions as to what another PC will or will not do.
No. I'm saying that if the gap between theorycrafting and working is a big enough niche that another character can fill it the theorycrafting has messed up.
You're contradicting your own argument here. You advocated for the Dexterity-based Magus on account of Dervish Dance being available around 2nd-3rd level, and on the basis that other concepts don't come online until 8th level. Another character isn't getting the Magus into melee combat without losing one or more attacks before 8th level, though.
Thats starting to hit post mortem on a lot of campaigns, the end of most of them. You have to play the character through those lower levels and thats exactly the bad design the OP was talking about that leads to the saranite cookie cutter.
Muscle magi might come together at level 10 after 10 levels of suckage ...
Here's the thing. The OP was generalizing, and even he ended up acknowledging that he was ignoring the capabilities the Magus's spell list and Spell Combat provided the class. What you're doing right now is, well, generalizing.
... when 10 feet of movement doesn't matter because of quickened haste or whatever.
No, because of a spell that makes that 10 feet of movement irrelevant. Your counterargument to this boils down to "someone else will do this for me between levels 4 and 8-10, allowing me to just Spellstrike every time."
Apologies for the side tangent, but clarification needed on Skald.
Inspired Rage Benefits:
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Once per Rage, can add ½ LEVEL to any STR check or STR based Skill Check (Standard Inspired Rage ability)
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I also left off that my enemies within 30' are shaken (-2 to hit, etc) which makes up for the -1AC to my party members.
These are not Inspired Rage benefits - these are benefits of *different* Raging Song performances: Song of Strength and Dirge of Doom. They do not combine with the other benefits mentioned.
Rage Powers only come online with Inspired Rage. Skald's Vigor technically works with any Raging Song, but it's equal to the bonus to Strength provided by the song, which is 0 for any bug Inspired Rage.
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Apologies for the side tangent, but clarification needed on Skald.
These are not Inspired Rage benefits - these are benefits of *different* Raging Song performances: Song of Strength and Dirge of Doom. They do not combine with the other benefits mentioned.
Inspired Rage Benefits:
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Once per Rage, can add ½ LEVEL to any STR check or STR based Skill Check (Standard Inspired Rage ability)
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I also left off that my enemies within 30' are shaken (-2 to hit, etc) which makes up for the -1AC to my party members.
Probably he is demoralizing his opponents by the use of dazzling display in conjunction with his song.
Labeling and prioritizing things without regard as to whether or not they're viable is wordplay.
Maybe this is the misunderstanding.
Viability isn't really relevant to my point. If one option is more or less just plain better than the other without being fundamentally different then the better option will get used.
I'm not seeing anything that really advantages the muscle magus here, and "well it isn't terrible" isn't an argument against that. One option is better and plays the same if not better then why NOT take that one?
So far the argument is that extra movement is irrelevant to melee which.. no. Wow . No. Opponents being further away happens all the time. Even using bladed dash you only have a 30 foot range. If they are 25 or 30 feet away you have to burn a bladed dash instead of a shocking grasp. If you are 55 or 60 feet away Lightfoot the magus can walk and bladed dash while Sir Clanks a lot needs to double move or do something else. (as bad on a magus as on a lot of other melee but still less than optimal)
but whether your speed is 20 or 30 (more on that in a second), you're still expending a move action and provoking an attack of opportunity to get into melee
Moving into melee range doesn't usually provoke an AOO. Sometimes it does, but you don't need a bladed dash to walk up to people and whack them.
at which point you're getting a single Spellstrike attack.
That would be zap in my parlance.
I absolutely do find value in doing about 5.5 less damage with my bonus attack from Bladed Dash in exchange for discounting any AOO considerations.
I think this is the problem. Its not a matter of does it have value yes/no but how much value? You're admiting you're doing less damage by your comparison you're burning a second level spell vs a first level one (which is a big deal to start with and then huge once the magi gets the barbera bush pearl of power strand going)
I did forget about the hit bonus from bladed dash , but i still would rather make one spellstrike than two regular attacks all other things being equal.
I just don't see the argument for armor magi, and I can barely recall seeing any in pfs.
Just gonna do a bit of math here to compare a Magus to Fighter, Swashbuckler, and uRogue just so people can see how it actually stacks up… I’ll be using ABP to help simplify things. Assuming an 18 in Str or Dex, a +2 racial and all level advancements to the same stat, and a 16 in up to two other attributes, all other attributes are irrelevant for this comparison. For Dex builds we will assume they invest in an Agile weapon. For Str builds I will be using Longsword and for Dex Builds I’ll use Rapier to keep things simple. All builds will be at level 10. All builds will uave the following feats from levels Weapon Focus, Armor Focus/Shield Focus, Power Attack/Piranha Strike, Dodge, 1 build specific feat, and any bonus feats provided by the standard class. I’m not going to calculate critical hit averages, I’d prefer not to butcher that math…
Note: these are NOT optimized builds, they are generic and deliberately similar to provide the most accurate comparisons.
Fighter:
Str: 18[base]+2[racial]+2[level]+2[enh] = +7
Dex: 16[base] = +3
BAB: +10/+5
Weapon Training: +2
Adv. Weapon Training - Warrior Spirit: +2[enh]
Power Attack: -3/+6(9)
Feat: ???
Bonus Feats: 6
1st - ???
2nd - Shield Focus: +1
4th - Weapon specialization: +2
6th - Unhindering Shield
8th - Greater Weapon Focus: +2
10th - Adv. Armor Training - Armor Specialization: +2
Armor Training: +2
Armor: +9[full plate]+2[enh] = +11
Armor Focus: +1
Shield: +1[buckler]
Dodge: +1
Natural Armor: +1[enh]
Deflection: +2
Weapon: +2[enh]/4.5{9}[Longsword d8]+2[enh] = +2/6.5{13}
Attack total: +24/+19
Avg. Damage per hit (2h){crit}: 25.5(31.5){51(63)}
AC: 33
Due to the sheer number of Fighter Bonus Feats, by level 10 a fighter can easily have everything they need and have a couple feats left over. They set a fairly high baseline.
Swashbuckler:
Dex: 18[base]+2[racial]+2[level]+2[enh] = +7
Cha: 16[base]+2[enh] = +4
BAB: +10/+5
Weapon Training: +2
Piranha Strike: -3/+6
Feat: Unhindering Shield
Bonus Feats: 3
1st - Weapon Finesse
4th - Weapon specialization: +2
8th - Greater Weapon Focus: +2
Armor: +4[mithral chainshirt]+2[enh] = +6
Shield: +1[buckler]
Shield Focus: +1
Dodge: +1[feat]+2[nimble]
Natural Armor: +1[enh]
Deflection: +2
Weapon: +2[enh]/3.5{7}[Rapier d6]+2[enh] = +2/6.5{11}
Precise Strike: +10
Attack total: +20/+15
Avg. Damage per hit {crit}: 29.5{59}
AC: 30
Swashbuckler falls slightly behind a fighter in everything, but they do have higher one-handed damage.
Rogue:
Dex: 18[base]+2[racial]+2[level]+2[enh] = +7
BAB: +7/+2
Piranha Strike: -2/+4
Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting: -2
Weapon Focus: +1
Bonus Feats: 1-3
1st - Weapon Finesse
8th - Combat Trick: Imp. Two-Weapon Fighting: -2/-7
10th - Feat: ???
Armor: +4[mithral chainshirt]+2[enh] = +6
Armor Focus: +1
Dodge: +1[feat]
Natural Armor: +1[enh]
Deflection: +2
Weapon: +2[enh]/3.5{7}[Rapier d6]+2[enh] = +2/6.5{11}
Flanking: +2
Debilitating Injury - Bewildered: -4
Sneak Attack: 5d6 = 17.5
Attack total: +15/+15/+10/+10 (target AC -4)
Avg. Damage per hit (SA){crit}: 17.5(35){35(52.5)}/11.5(29){23(40.5)}
AC: 26
Rogues have low damage per hit, but potentially high DPR with TWF… their low BAB and lack of innate bonuses to attack make them very reliant on items, positioning, and keeping the enemies AC debuffed.
Magus:
Str: 18[base]+2[racial]+2[level]+2[enh] = +7
Int: 16[base]+2[enh] = +4
Dex: 16[base] = +3
BAB: +7/+2
Arcane Pool: +3[enh]
Spell Combat: -2
Arcane Accuracy: +4[int]
Power Attack: -2/+4(8)
Weapon Focus: +1
Feat: Weapon Specialization: +2
Bonus Feats: 1
5th - ???
Armor: +6[breastplate]+2[enh] = +8
Armor Focus: +1
Dodge: +1[feat]
Natural Armor: +1[enh]
Deflection: +2
Weapon: +2[enh]/4.5{9}[longsword d8]+2[enh] = +2/6.5{13}
Attack total (AA): +21/+21/+16 (+25/+25/+20)
Avg. Damage per hit (2h){crit}: 20.5(27.5){41(55)}
AC: 26
Dex and Str magus ultimately look the same, though Dex magus sacrifices the potential of 2h damage, with no actual benefit other than reducing their MAD. Breastplate would become either a haramaki or a mithral shirt, either way their AC remains 26, when a STR magus gets heavy armor their AC goes up to 27 and a Dex Magus can get a up to a 29 AC with a Haramaki, 31 if they get a buckler and unhindering shield, or 34 if they cast Mage Armor. All other statistics are identical between Str and Dex magus, attack and one-handed damage are unchanged.
Compared to other martials, a Magus holds a middle ground between them. Slightly behind Swashbuckler in damage but with the two-handed weapon potential of a warrior and the extra attacks of a Rogue… spellstrike can also add a little extra DPR but ultimately the damage it adds is relatively low (shocking grasp adds on average 17.5 DPR and adds a +2 to hit a metal target until discharged).
A dex based Swashbucklers damage shuts off in a stiff breeze thanks to its reliance on precision damage, and the two weapon fighting rogue has that problem, plus the celestial alignment of sneak attacking (not hard) full attacking (nor that hard) but doing them both at the same time.... its the Ur example of wow on paper but meh in practice
If you're talking regular move and attack, the strength magus can two hand his weapon. You can even cast something like shocking grasp, take your move and then deliver the hit with 2 hands. But mostly the strength magus has the advantage of 2 extra feats over the dexterity builds, and being completely online from level 1.
As for bladed dash. The thing is that both strength and dexterity builds are going to be wanting to use it at least once a combat. The speed difference isn't going to change that very often. The spell is only relevant in that it's just one of the reasons that base speed isn't overall that important to either magus. You're way too limited to think the magus is just a damage dealer. The magus is a generalist who can also do good damage.
And really, the speed issue is mostly moot, unless you are using some archetype. You don't naturally get medium armor till level 7. By that point there are lots of workarounds for speed. For instance, Monstrous Physique starts to come online at level 7, if you want more maneuverability. Since I'm talking about that spell, you can combine it with the natural spell combat arcana. It's overall pretty devastating, and it only gets better as you get some later forms. And all of that works much better with a strength build than a dexterity build.
Maybe this is the misunderstanding.
Viability isn't really relevant to my point.
No offense, but hat... flies contrary to some of your earlier posts in this topic.
I'm not seeing anything that really advantages the muscle magus here, and "well it isn't terrible" isn't an argument against that.
I'm not saying the Strength-based Magus "isn't terrible." I'm saying gaining Dexterity to damage at the cost of two feats is not a worthwhile tradeoff, especially for a class that makes an extra +2-3 Dexterity modifier irrelevant by way of one of its two primary class features. I'm saying whether or not you choose to wear medium or heavy armor, there are better things to do with those feats (and thus with your second-highest ability score).
So far the argument is that extra movement is irrelevant to melee which.. no. Wow . No. Opponents being further away happens all the time. Even using bladed dash you only have a 30 foot range. If they are 25 or 30 feet away you have to burn a bladed dash instead of a shocking grasp. If you are 55 or 60 feet away Lightfoot the magus can walk and bladed dash while Sir Clanks a lot needs to double move or do something else. (as bad on a magus as on a lot of other melee but still less than optimal)
I'm sorry, but you are arguing an utterly moot point. If an opponent is more than 30 feet away, it doesn't matter if you're wearing light armor or not. If you cast Bladed Dash just to get the single attack the spell confers, you wasted a spell slot. With respect, you may as well have been a Bard or a Skald in that moment, rather than a Magus. There are far better things to do in a situation where an enemy is more than 30 feet away from your Magus.
Moving into melee range doesn't usually provoke an AOO. Sometimes it does, but you don't need a bladed dash to walk up to people and whack them.
Anything with reach will get you, but regardless: the point of Bladed Dash isn't just to avoid AOOs. It's to give you bonuses to attack and a bonus attack (plus iterative attacks, when you get them). It's two opportunities to roll 15-20 at your highest BAB. It's the opportunity to attack and trip (if you prefer and you invested the same resources to something besides shifting from Strength to Dexterity), which open your opponent to an AOO. It's about still other opportunities, which you're denying your Magus by limiting him to a single attack.
I think this is the problem. Its not a matter of does it have value yes/no but how much value? You're admiting you're doing less damage by your comparison you're burning a second level spell vs a first level one (which is a big deal to start with and then huge once the magi gets the barbera bush pearl of power strand going)
I'm trading away a minimal amount of damage in exchange for safety and a greater range of effects.
I just don't see the argument for armor magi, and I can barely recall seeing any in pfs.
Again, the armor angle is irrelevant to me. The Medium Armor and Heavy Armor class features are passive distractions to me. By the time the Magus earns them, he's got access to spells that do a far better job of protecting him. By the time enemies can consistently see through invisibility, displacement, etc., the extra five points of Armor bonus a Magus can get via heavy armor are an afterthought. Regardless, by then--as you said--you're likely at the end-stage of a campaign.
My actual points of contention are, again, over-reliance on Spellstrike at the expense of Spell Combat, and sacrificing two feats to get Dexterity to Damage.
No offense, but hat... flies contrary to some of your earlier posts in this topic.
Offense taken, because it does not. It flies in the face of your blatant and repeatedly corrected mis readings of my posts. Not what I said.
especially for a class that makes an extra +2-3 Dexterity modifier irrelevant by way of one of its two primary class features.
you're going to have to spell out what those class features are supposed to be, because if its what I think it is the argument is terrible.
I'm saying whether or not you choose to wear medium or heavy armor, there are better things to do with those feats
Such as... ? Nothing you listed was really gripping.
(and thus with your second-highest ability score).
..and here we may have found the problem. You're seeing a magus casts spells, must jack their int score. A magus is a gish character. They rely very heavily on one particular spell that doesn't have a save, and their spells don't work at all if they don't hit.
Your to hit stat on a magus is NOT your SECOND highest ability score it is your highest ability score. You need a good int to cast spells but a 14 does just fine to start.
I'm sorry, but you are arguing an utterly moot point. If an opponent is more than 30 feet away, it doesn't matter if you're wearing light armor or not.
you're arguing against math here. An opponent 55 or 60 feet away gets hit with the bladed dash By Magi Lighfoot but not by sir clanksalot.
If you cast Bladed Dash just to get the single attack the spell confers, you wasted a spell slot.
And yet it was worthwhile to cast to get the turtle into melee sooner to make up for his slow movement. But for some reason its not worth it to get someone with a 30 foot movement into melee sooner?
I'm trading away a minimal amount of damage in exchange for safety and a greater range of effects.
The dex magus will have a higher ac so i can't see how safety is an issue, if you want to trip cast true strike.
My actual points of contention are, again, over-reliance on Spellstrike
The dex magi is not any more reliant on spellstrike than the armor magi. They just have move -spell strike on the options menu more than the heavy armor magi. The magis turns go move spellstrike magus flurry till something dies then move spellstrike. Bladed dash will hurt, move spellstrike has a reasonable chance of crit exploding a mooks head and getting them off the board entirely.
at the expense of Spell Combat, and sacrificing two feats to get Dexterity to Damage.
If you have dex as a secondary rather than primary stat I can see that, but as a primary stat its two feats for 10 feet of movement 3 points of AC not drowning, a wider variety of races to pick from, a number of abilities in the game that only work in light armor etc.
Offense taken, because it does not. It flies in the face of your blatant and repeatedly corrected mis readings of my posts. Not what I said.
No offense, but hat... flies contrary to some of your earlier posts in this topic.
I haven't misread anything you posted, BigNorseWolf. You alluded to the concept you're arguing against not reflecting "intelligent play." When Bladed Dash was clarified to you, you continued on about difficulty in getting into melee and your practice of creating spellcasters to get a character there. You then implied the gap between theorycrafting and working being big enough that another character could fill it. You then offered that the first 10 levels of a Strength Magus was "suckage," and qualified that most campaigns end around there. This, incidentally, was the same point you claimed a Strength Magus actually becomes viable.
So yeah, feel free to take offense if you so choose, but if none of the above was about viability... then maybe think about choosing your words more carefully.
you're going to have to spell out what those class features are supposed to be, because if its what I think it is the argument is terrible.
I already have. Multiple times. Again: several of the spells the Magus gets, which Spell Combat allows him to cast in conjunction with his full attack, offer far better defense than an extra +2-3 from Dexterity.
Such as... ? Nothing you listed was really gripping.
It couldn't be gripping, BigNorseWolf, because I barely alluded to a single feat. But honestly, my answer at this point would be "practically anything a player might like," because practically anything would offer more options and creative outlets than making your Magus slightly less MAD. It's two less feats to get in the way of getting extra Arcane Pool, or opening more doors with Spell Blending, or being more versatile with (and against) combat maneuvers, or picking up more Metamagic feats, or racking up more attacks via Natural Spell Combat and Monstrous Physique, or having a clear path to Dimensional Dervish (if your GM is inclined to agree), etc., etc.
If I have to choose between any of those things and an extra +2-3 bonus from my Dexterity, I'm going for those things every time, because if I can't find the tools to overcome so minor a deficit in my spell list, then I'm not actually playing a Magus.
..and here we may have found the problem. You're seeing a magus casts spells, must jack their int score. A magus is a gish character. They rely very heavily on one particular spell that doesn't have a save, and their spells don't work at all if they don't hit.
I agree, we have found the problem... but it's not that I think we need to jack a Magus's Intelligence. Rather, I don't agree with pigeonholing a Magus to a single class feature and a single spell, and I definitely don't agree with the idea that you're somehow not hitting if you don't go with a Dexterity build.
you're arguing against math here. An opponent 55 or 60 feet away gets hit with the bladed dash By Magi Lighfoot but not by sir clanksalot.
No, I'm not. I'm arguing against your entire approach to this specific situation.
(That said, I'm also mystified at the fact that you keep ignoring that from levels 4-6 this isn't even a consideration (since Medium Armor is off the table), and that I'm not interested in Medium armor post-7th level, either.)
And yet it was worthwhile to cast to get the turtle into melee sooner to make up for his slow movement. But for some reason its not worth it to get someone with a 30 foot movement into melee sooner?
That's not what I said at all. But you knew this, just as you knew that you're arguing a moot point re: heavier armor and slower movement rate, despite it not being something I'm arguing for.
The dex magus will have a higher ac so i can't see how safety is an issue, if you want to trip cast true strike.
Again, an extra +2-3 to AC is relatively irrelevant, especially past level 4.
Beyond that, by wasting Bladed Dash by taking a move action prior to casting it, I'm not able to cast True Strike in the same round. I have to either accept a significant reduction in my attack bonuses (relative to True Strike or Blade Lash) and not do any damage this round (barring an AOO from standing up, assuming the enemy hasn't already gone) or I have to wait a round.
The dex magi is not any more reliant on spellstrike than the armor magi.
I'm not referring to Dexterity-based Magi, specifically. I'm referring to your stated preference and priorities, as spelled out both earlier in this thread and here.
If you have dex as a secondary rather than primary stat I can see that, but as a primary stat its two feats for 10 feet of movement 3 points of AC not drowning, a wider variety of races to pick from, a number of abilities in the game that only work in light armor etc.
Again, you're assuming medium or heavy armor is a foregone conclusion for a Strength Magus. It's really not.
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Having played two str-based Magus characters all the way from level 1 to about 15, I can attest that they are highly effective. One of them went str-primary to save his feats for other things, the other because he likes enlarging himself and that works better with strength. Neither of them wears medium or heavy armor, so the lower movement rate was never an issue.
Sure, their AC is a few points lower than a dex build; they deal with this by casting Shield or Vanish or other defensive spells on the Magus list. The point is that you have options and "the highest possible AC" is not the only option.
If you want, you can also play an effective Magus without using Shocking Grasp. Nothing wrong with that spell, of course, but it is hardly the only way to play a Magus. With all the archetypes and arcana and spells available, it should be no surprise that it has options (e.g. use debuffs, or maneuvers, or other touch spells, or just flaming+frost+shock+bane on your main weapon).
Obligatory link to the Magus guide that has a lot of suggestions on different ways to play one :)
Having played two str-based Magus characters all the way from level 1 to about 15, I can attest that they are highly effective. One of them went str-primary to save his feats for other things, the other because he likes enlarging himself and that works better with strength.
Did you use monstrous physique for your larger forms? Personally, I am really tempted to just use the euryale. So many bites
The only “problem” I personally see with magus is that the class doesn’t really incentivize having a high Int… for the most part a 16 is all a magus ever needs in Int… Str, Dex, and Con are what a magus needs to put the most focus on, and Dex doesn’t really need to be any higher than 16 either unless your using an archetype that gives up heavy & medium armor…
I don’t know why so many people think Magus is a dex class… sure 1-7 level is rough as a Str magus due to being limited to light armor until 7th, but once you get medium armor the class really leans into a high strength… magus may be a MAD class but its actually fairly easy to manage… 16 Dex, 16 Int, 18+ Str, 12+ Con, 10+ Wis, dump Cha. Once Dex and Int hit 16, all the magus really cares about is Str and Con, they are really no more MAD than any martial class…
If you want to build a Dex magus, you should always take an archetype that trades out medium & heavy armor, otherwise you’ll have two dead class features… and all that changes in stat priorities then is Dex becomes 18+ and Str becomes 10… you don’t want -Str unless absolutely necessary… it doesn’t actually make the class any less MAD than it already was… sure not needing two stars at 16 is easier to manage, and dumping Str down to 10 means you can squeeze a few more points into Con… but it’s ultimately the same and it eats into your limited feat access to get Weapon Finesse and then you either burn funds on an agile weapon or give up 3 more feats for Slashing Grace/Fencing Grace, Two-weapon Fighting, and Two-weapon Grace to get Dex to damage…. Thats a lot of feats, and absolutely not worth it… I’m not counting the Weapon Focus cost in this because honestly, Magus should take that feat anyways…
Some magus archetypes make them more or less MAD, but the magus will always be MAD. Eldritch Archer is often considered the least MAD but it’s actually identical to the standard Str magus just with Str and Dex swapped… because unlike a Dex magus, an archer still wants a high Str, but now instead of focusing on Con after hitting that 16 marker they still want to push it higher.
Kensai can either be the most MAD or least MAD depending on how you go about it… unlike other magus builds a Kensai actually wants to push their Int above 16, but their complete lack of armor makes them very Dex focused too, being armorless in melee means they really want that extra Con early, at later levels they have crazy high AC though… Str is not very important to them, but Str Kensai is possible if you don’t mind being extremely MAD… like the others Cha isn’t needed, and Wis simply needs to be a non-negative value…
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You can surprisingly make a decent magus blaster. Comfortably get in close for hitting groups of enemies with cone attacks. Spell strike is strong, but it’s not like you have to do that every turn.
When you get spell recall, you should have enough blasts to stay competitive, when mixed with your attacks.
I don’t know why so many people think Magus is a dex class… sure 1-7 level is rough as a Str magus due to being limited to light armor until 7th, but once you get medium armor
then your campaign is almost over. Honestly how many campaigns get to 10 and more importantly how much time do you spend there when they do?
Even ignoring the idea that people want to enjoy their character NOW instead of delayed gratification, the entirety of the fun you have with a character is not confined to the last session you play them in. Most people have more fun with a effective character and the dex build lets you be more effective over more games of actual play.
If you want to build a Dex magus, you should always take an archetype that trades out medium & heavy armor otherwise you’ll have two dead class features…
Kensai is part of the cookie cutter.
"I'm a kensai magus"
Entire table "So.. a magus..."
I think bladebound was part of that but i remember some issue of whether that worked or not but not what it was.
and all that changes in stat priorities then is Dex becomes 18+ and Str becomes 10… you don’t want -Str unless absolutely necessary…
Because....? The shadow is going to kill you in 2 or 3 hits regardles and carrying capacity is the easiest/cheapest thing in the game to increase.
Weapon Finesse and then you either burn funds on an agile weapon or give up 3 more feats for Slashing Grace/Fencing Grace, Two-weapon Fighting, and Two-weapon Grace to get Dex to damage….
Weapon finesse and dervish dance. The scimitar being one of the two weapons that are indisputably the best for magi is part of the problem.
Some magus archetypes make them more or less MAD, but the magus will always be MAD.
With the trickster/smart kitsune or any other Dex int race
STR 8 / DEX 19 / CON 14 / INT 16 / WIS 11 / CHA 7
Or a human
STR 8 / DEX 19 / CON 14 / INT 15 / WIS 11 / CHA 7
Magi are mad in the sense that that need a bunch of good stats, but unlike other mad classes they only need one UBER stat, the other two do just fine with "good". As a gish class the magi can rely on spells without saves, they just need to be able to cast and ideally get bonus spells keeping up with their slower progression.
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Strength or Dexterity based, you are still going to be relying on more than just your AC for defenses. You have mirror image against any hard hitting enemy and blur for fighting large groups. Having a slightly higher AC will come in handy sometimes, but it shouldn't be that necessary. And if you have some outside source of defense, like a half-decent healer, then the couple extra AC you get from dexterity will hardly ever matter.
Even a dexterity magus shouldn't dump strength. Light armor isn't that light and your carrying capacity can matter really fast. Dumping strength also makes you really weak against combat maneuvers and ability damage, both of which are fairly common when you live in melee range.
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then your campaign is almost over. Honestly how many campaigns get to 10 and more importantly how much time do you spend there when they do?
I don’t know why so many people think Magus is a dex class… sure 1-7 level is rough as a Str magus due to being limited to light armor until 7th, but once you get medium armor
Every campaign I’ve ever played in. I’ve never really even heard of campaigns ending at 10 before, the earliest I’ve heard of is 14.
Also if you have a problem with things not fully functioning until level 7, then you must hate a LOT of classes… most character builds are partially functional until level 7… there is always something important missing until around level 7. Its pretty well known that most characters feel weak or incomplete until level 7.
Every campaign I’ve ever played in. I’ve never really even heard of campaigns ending at 10 before, the earliest I’ve heard of is 14.
I realize this is a weird place to ask this question but...do you have internet? Gaming campaigns end all the time. The DM starts over , people move away, people get bored and start new characters. Adventure paths have a serious drop off after the first couple of books. Organized play has a severe drop off after level 8 or so. Its POSSIBLE to get all the way to 20 but its not exactly common
Also if you have a problem with things not fully functioning until level 7, then you must hate a LOT of classes… most character builds are partially functional until level 7… there is always something important missing until around level 7. Its pretty well known that most characters feel weak or incomplete until level 7.
I'm aware that a large number of uber theoretical characters don't come together until 5 or so which is why I'm not a fan of theortical character builds that don't work till later levels.
If you're not familiar with campaigns falling apart before 10 I think you're in a weird place to say what's well known.
Every campaign I’ve ever played in. I’ve never really even heard of campaigns ending at 10 before, the earliest I’ve heard of is 14.
I completely get that no one gamer's experience is by any means universal, but I share your sentiments.
In fact, not a single one of the groups I've gamed with arbitrarily cut campaigns off before level 20. Life might get in the way (people moving, etc.), but otherwise we pressed until characters died or maxed out. There has never been a time when I thought, "Man, now that my character is getting REALLY good, things are getting boring." On the contrary, I relish the chance to force our GM to come up with new challenges when my Magus uses Borrowed Time and Spell Perfection along with Spell Combat/Spellstrike to hit enemies with a full attack and three spells.
Ok, so your argument is "campaigns die by level 10, so the only viable build is one that works at low levels."
1) There is a whole thread about how long campaigns last in this forum: How many of your games actually go past level 10, the impression I have got is that about 40% of the players' groups routinely stop before level 10, 40% regularly go well beyond it, and the other 10% has variable results and/or non-standard starts.
So "levels 1-6 are at least half" of the campaign is true for the groups that routinely stop playing at around level 10. It isn't true for all groups.
And since we're talking about campaign lengths AND Diego brought this up earlier...
While that thread isn't exactly a proper sample size for a scientific poll, it's worth considering that all but three or four of the posters that responded with campaigns primarily ending at level 10 or before indicated they did so because of external factors.
I'm not sure that's the best reason to treat level 10 as an endpoint, or to base assessment of class design on that.
My experience is that most games that last past level 5 usually go up to the mid teens. And in the case of this discussion, the strength build is in a clear advantage at level 1 and 2.
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Every campaign I’ve ever played in. I’ve never really even heard of campaigns ending at 10 before, the earliest I’ve heard of is 14.I realize this is a weird place to ask this question but...do you have internet? Gaming campaigns end all the time. The DM starts over , people move away, people get bored and start new characters. Adventure paths have a serious drop off after the first couple of books. Organized play has a severe drop off after level 8 or so. Its POSSIBLE to get all the way to 20 but its not exactly common
Also if you have a problem with things not fully functioning until level 7, then you must hate a LOT of classes… most character builds are partially functional until level 7… there is always something important missing until around level 7. Its pretty well known that most characters feel weak or incomplete until level 7.I'm aware that a large number of uber theoretical characters don't come together until 5 or so which is why I'm not a fan of theortical character builds that don't work till later levels.
If you're not familiar with campaigns falling apart before 10 I think you're in a weird place to say what's well known.
Read the thread I linked above. Reading it I would say that 40% of the groups routinely end their campaigns by level 10 or less, 40% routinely end after level 15 or more, 10% of the groups play short or long campaigns depending on the mood and RL factors, and 10% do non-standard things like starting at level 7 or 10, playing gestalt campaign, and so on.
PS: I corrected the math of the earlier post.
I realize this is a weird place to ask this question but...do you have internet? Gaming campaigns end all the time. The DM starts over , people move away, people get bored and start new characters. Adventure paths have a serious drop off after the first couple of books. Organized play has a severe drop off after level 8 or so. Its POSSIBLE to get all the way to 20 but its not exactly common
_ALL_ of our campaigns go from level 1 to 20, so it's not exactly uncommon either.
_ALL_ of our campaigns go from level 1 to 20, so it's not exactly uncommon either.
And is that true for most other groups you've talked to? You've never HEARD of campaigns not making it for various reasons? Yeah. No.
Yes. It is very uncommon. You're looking at the people who frequent the boards and even here you'll see a lack of high level play as a frequent complaint. Adventure paths have a problem where people don't buy the high level books nearly as often as the lower level ones because the campaign peters out. Society play tapers off after 8 and comes to a near halt at 13
PF 1 simply breaks a bit after 10th level. Caster martial disparity shoots off, builds become absolutely insane, and rocket tag becomes the only game in town. Not to mention the problems with just maintaining the same group and that groups interest in one campaign that long.
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Campaigns peter out for various reasons. In either case, anecdotal experiences on campaign longevity aren't--and shouldn't be--what drive class design. They definitely shouldn't determine viability unless (A) the group in question understands they're ceasing play at a given level or (B) the actual game is restructured to that level cap.
Where (B) is concerned, though, 1E Society play historically tapered off and/or came to a halt at specific levels because of a dearth of scenarios that went beyond a certain level. Additionally, there was a relative dearth of events where you could play those modules, etc., designed to get you beyond levels 11 (or, in later years, 13, 15, etc.).
More to the point, to take it back to the questions you posed at the start of your reply to TxSam88, you're presenting your experiences and subjective opinion (which you're obviously entitled to) as a combination of typical experience and fact... while dismissing the experiences and opinions of others as either atypical or wrong.
Note, not one person you're replying to led off with "this is how it is" in terms of campaign play/duration. Each of them was replying to you.
I don't think anyone here is invested in telling you that your way of playing a Magus is wrong, or that your group is wrong for ceasing play at a given level. I don't think anyone is particularly swayed by arguments that boil down to (I'm obviously paraphrasing here) "this isn't viable because play stops here," though, or "if you're doing X, then you must also be doing Y."
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Did you use monstrous physique for your larger forms?
For this character, it was Abyssal bloodline.
I don’t know why so many people think Magus is a dex class… sure 1-7 level is rough as a Str magus due to being limited to light armor until 7th,
It's not nearly as rough if you use defensive spells like Shield and Mirror Image. Like, on turn one you do spell combat, cast Shield, 5'-step to an enemy, and attack (AC 19 at level one sure looks good to me). And at low level it's a big deal that the Str Magus has two additional feats available to use on whatever he wants.
Sure, they become better as they level up (because that's what leveling is for) but the Str Magus is entirely viable from level one.
You can surprisingly make a decent magus blaster. Comfortably get in close for hitting groups of enemies with cone attacks. Spell strike is strong, but it’s not like you have to do that every turn.
And also this. You can make an effective Magus that's int-primary. It's not a common build but still a solid one.