Clamoring for a 2e Technology Guide

[exequiel759]

Dimity wrote:

Can this book please include the Solarian, Vanguard, and Biohacker classes?

You already have Solarian in SF2e.

[Tyriphian the Thread Psychopomp]

If the technology involves spam bots, then it should stay buried and lost in Numeria.

[keftiu]

exequiel759 wrote:

Dimity wrote:

Can this book please include the Solarian, Vanguard, and Biohacker classes?

You already have Solarian in SF2e.

That post is from 2022, before SF2 was announced :)

[Master Han Del of the Web]

Man, that's the first time I've seen one put a link in someone else's mouth.

[JiCi]

Well, if Starfnder 2E is supposed to be 100% compatible with P2E, we... won't need a Tech Guide. Any item from SF2E book could be used for P2E in Numeria.

[kaid]

JiCi wrote:

Well, if Starfnder 2E is supposed to be 100% compatible with P2E, we... won't need a Tech Guide. Any item from SF2E book could be used for P2E in Numeria.

Yup at this point it would almost be strange if we don't get some numeria stuff once SF2e is out because all the rules would be available to make it work and compatible.

[Master Han Del of the Web]

I do imagine there's a place for a more robust set of rules for achieving the right flavor for Numeria. The vibe of Numeria was definitely not just 'Starfinder on Golarion'. Traits for things like salvaged tech, relevant archetypes, Numerian-ized monsters, etc.

[kaid]

Master Han Del of the Web wrote:

I do imagine there's a place for a more robust set of rules for achieving the right flavor for Numeria. The vibe of Numeria was definitely not just 'Starfinder on Golarion'. Traits for things like salvaged tech, relevant archetypes, Numerian-ized monsters, etc.

Yes having SF2e means the stuff is there and balanced so fleshing out the numeria aspect of interacting with tech that is thousands of years old and of suspect levels of repair and stuff that surrounds it. You could much more easily do a smaller lost omen book like the high helm book to cover numeria if you don't have to put in the entire amount of gear from SF2e. You can focus more on the setting and player options for interacting with the stuff and how to acquire it and what kind of state the gear is in.

[Master Han Del of the Web]

That would also give a lot more room to flesh out the state Numeria is in post-Iron Gods, which has got to be a wild place.

[Ascalaphus]

I think it'd be really cool if they used a Numeria book to show how that tech is different from what you'd have in Starfinder. In Starfinder a lot of the tech is new, or at least people know what an object is supposed to be. In Numeria you might get a lot more stuff like people cutting up big plastic vats to repurpose them as lightweight plate armor.

[steelhead]

I would also like to clamor, as I believe a 2E tech guide will be easier to pull off after SF2 comes out. Providing a more rounded book with tech rules specifically for Pathfinder would be great as baseline game assumptions are different (earlier and easier access to flight is a thing in SF, correct?). Additionally, more and updated lore on the region will provide a fantastic resource!

Maybe we’re getting this with the tease of two new Impossible class play-tests? One can only hope.

[moosher12]

During the last Paizo Stream, it was mentioned that interest in bringing Golarion back to Numeria was there in light of Starfinder 2E coming out, so the good thing is, a technology guide as a lost omens book post Starfinder probably would not be out of the question to talk about how to integrate Starfinder content in Pathfinder.

Though the Starfinder GM Core is supposed to discuss intercompatibility between Starfinder and Pathfinder, so I'm not sure if everything to be said will already be covered in the Starfinder GM Core.

While a lot of Starfinder stuff can be spliced into Pathfinder, not everything has a place, and I'm not sure if the Starfinder GM Core will have enough pages to do it to a satisfactory level. Plus, it gives room to talk about Pathfinder innovations on Numerian technology (and potentially Stasian technology? A Technology Guide can also encompass Earthling 1920-30's tech), Who doesn't wanna do a heist in a rich irriseni collector to obtain a 1911?

[Driftbourne]

Iron Gods for 2e was talked about in the Paizo live 11 days ago, it's at around 1:43

Paizo live .

Also in that video it mentions that the Starfidner GM core will have the cross over-rules and or advice including pictures of Iconic characters from both Pathfinder and Starfinder in the opposite setting.

[BotBrain]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I think it'd be really cool if they used a Numeria book to show how that tech is different from what you'd have in Starfinder. In Starfinder a lot of the tech is new, or at least people know what an object is supposed to be. In Numeria you might get a lot more stuff like people cutting up big plastic vats to repurpose them as lightweight plate armor.

Very much this!

The cool part of numeria is not just that it's high sci-fi in a fantasy setting, but that it also considers how the fantasy inhabitants of the setting would interact with the technology. Just adding rules for laser guns in pf2e would miss the mark, imo.

[Perpdepog]

I'd still love a Numeria book. Honestly, I think I'll love a Numeria book that comes out post-SF2E more than I would have one previously. The book won't have to spend page-space explaining a lot of high-tech rules and things; it can point to SF2E for that. It can focus on the stuff that makes Numeria Numeria, instead. Rules for timeworn tech, weirder, less standardized items like the cobbled together stuff that pops up in Kingmaker, archetypes centered around being a tech-savvy berserker, cyborg, or a mutant, a nice, chunky bestiary full of robots, aliens, and other Numerian monsters, and ,of course, my beloved tables for drinking those sweet, sweet Numerian fluids.

[WatersLethe]

I just want to say our group has been having an absolute blast even just with the SF2 playtest stuff. Mixing and matching SF2 and PF2 content is so much fun (already played Barbarians, Inventors, Monks, Investigators, and Elemental Avatars* in SF2). I would love a Numeria book to sit as an unofficial SF2-PF2 crossover guidebook with options that archaicize modern tech and futurize ancient tech, while also providing all the in-world Numeria lore the setting deserves.

Whatever they do, I'm so excited for it.

[kaid]

Master Han Del of the Web wrote:

That would also give a lot more room to flesh out the state Numeria is in post-Iron Gods, which has got to be a wild place.

Also post war of the immortals. God knows what kind of stuff is happening when shards of god armor/blood rain down on a place as messed up as numeria.

[WatersLethe]

kaid wrote:

Master Han Del of the Web wrote:

That would also give a lot more room to flesh out the state Numeria is in post-Iron Gods, which has got to be a wild place.

Also post war of the immortals. God knows what kind of stuff is happening when shards of god armor/blood rain down on a place as messed up as numeria.

mmmm add it to the gumbo

[keftiu]

With Starfinder 2e now in the hands of some people, I figure it's time to bring back the pom-poms and cheers for PF2 Numeria content :3

[Ectar]

I would love more Numerian content. Futuristic science fiction content in our fantasy setting? Yes please.

I worry a little bit that a new Technology Guide would also have an abundance of Stasian Technology, of which I'm really not a fan.

[moosher12]

Yes please, I'll reiterate my want for a technology guide.

Honestly, I want more Stasian technology too.

For Numeria, I want the obvious stuff from the old technology guide. But I want it to also have a nifty price and level converter table to help items be brought to a Pathfinder standard.

For Stasian Technology, hear me out. I wanna see more Earth products get smuggled out of Irrisin, rather than Pathfinder innovations off of Stasian Coils. More mundane appliances, like how a few choice Russian weapons are in Pathfinder collections at this point. But I don't wanna just see Russian equipment and appliances, I'd wanna hope they can write in a solution for the Romanov family to have imported some American and European ones as well, which can have been smuggled out of Irrisin. Imagine, we could have an entire equipment list encompasing some popular items from 1930s Earth. The weapon and armor tables would have its pick from those used in World War 1. Bringing in items from Earth has its worth, as there are items too futuristic for Pathfinder to get on its own, but too archaic for Starfinder to fulfill.

[Ectar]

moosher12 wrote:

Yes please, I'll reiterate my want for a technology guide.

Honestly, I want more Stasian technology too.

For Stasian Technology, hear me out. I wanna see more Earth products. Not just Russian ones with the return of the Russian guns, but I wanna see if a few American and European guns can have been smuggled out of Irrisin, as well as other more mundane appliances, tools, and gadgets of the 1930s that are too modern for base Pathfinder, but too archaic for Starfinder.

See, this I'd be jazzed for. Actual 1930s-1940s technology.

The Stasian Technology I find disagreeable is the stuff that still defies known laws of physics, but does so in a purportedly non-magical way, via the inclusion of "Stasian Coils".
These things seem to generate electrical power from nowhere, non-magically.

Take the Electrocable from Guns and Gears. It reads like a handheld plasma cutter of light Bulk with no external power source and is non-magical.

That kind of take on Stasian Technology gives me exactly the same bad vibes as "Borg Technology" did in later seasons of Star Trek Voyager.

[Driftbourne]

I've often wondered if The Gap wasn't just a way to separate PF2e and SF2e lore, but also gave Paizo a reason not to have to make a Modernfinder to connect the two timelines.

With the tight math and balance in the 2e system, there isn't much room between the weapons of PF2e and SF2e to squeeze in a 3rd level of technology between them, other than aesthetics. You would most likely end up with Starfinder without auto-fire for personal weapons.

In Pathfinder, the best explanation for having 1930s-1940s technology would be time travel, but in Starfinder, it would be easy to have some planet in the galaxy still at 1930s-1940s technology, or any other level of technology.

In a live stream a while back, there was some hint of an Iron Gods sequel for PF2e, but it sounded a ways off, to give SF2e a chance to stand on its own first.

I'd love to see more futuristic alien tech in PF2e, which would give SF2e ancient alien tech we could dig up.

[BotBrain]

Ectar wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Yes please, I'll reiterate my want for a technology guide.

Honestly, I want more Stasian technology too.

For Stasian Technology, hear me out. I wanna see more Earth products. Not just Russian ones with the return of the Russian guns, but I wanna see if a few American and European guns can have been smuggled out of Irrisin, as well as other more mundane appliances, tools, and gadgets of the 1930s that are too modern for base Pathfinder, but too archaic for Starfinder.

See, this I'd be jazzed for. Actual 1930s-1940s technology.

The Stasian Technology I find disagreeable is the stuff that still defies known laws of physics, but does so in a purportedly non-magical way, via the inclusion of "Stasian Coils".
These things seem to generate electrical power from nowhere, non-magically.

Take the Electrocable from Guns and Gears. It reads like a handheld plasma cutter of light Bulk with no external power source and is non-magical.

That kind of take on Stasian Technology gives me exactly the same bad vibes as "Borg Technology" did in later seasons of Star Trek Voyager.

Oh my god THAT's what I've been bothered about with stasian tech. It's always rubbed me the wrong way but I've never been able to work out why.

[moosher12]

Driftbourne wrote:

In Pathfinder, the best explanation for having 1930s-1940s technology would be time travel, but in Starfinder, it would be easy to have some planet in the galaxy still at 1930s-1940s technology, or any other level of technology.

In a live stream a while back, there was some hint of an Iron Gods sequel for PF2e, but it sounded a ways off, to give SF2e a chance to stand on its own first.

I'd love to see more futuristic alien tech in PF2e, which would give SF2e ancient alien tech we could dig up.

Actually, you don't need time travel at all. All you need is sufficiently strong teleportation. I think there is a way, especially with the wake of the Godsrain. The thing is, on Lost Omens Earth, the current year is 1930, and there is a small amount of people that know that Earth exists and is theoretically accessible with enough power.

But travel to Earth is intergalactic, which means the tier of magic needed to get there is a likely Rank 10 Mythic Teleport, the sort Baba Yaga would have likely used to travel the universe. A normal 10th-rank teleport cannot leave the galaxy, but a Mythic one just might.

Which means with the rise of mythic beings, all we need is one sufficiently powerful mythic arcane or occult caster to track down Earth's coordinates, to at least get a slightly bigger trickle of goods.

There also lies the question: have Stasian coils been in limited supply since 4713, or is someone bringing in a small trickle of new ones to Irrisin. If the supply is limited, we have a reason to try to open the path for more, as wear and tear will eventually claim them. If the supply is being replenished, that means there is already passage.

[Driftbourne]

moosher12 wrote:

Actually, you don't need time travel at all. All you need is sufficiently strong teleportation. I think there is a way, especially with the wake of the Godsrain. The thing is, on Lost Omens Earth, the current year is 1930, and there is a small amount of people that know that Earth exists and is theoretically accessible with enough power.

I haven't kept up with PF2e lore since before Remaster, had no idea there was a 1930s Earth equivalent planet in PF2e, is it actually called Earth, or does it have another name? I wonder what happens to that Earth in SF2e if it even survives.

Thanks for the information, that's really interesting. I can't imagine Paizo coming up with something like that and not eventually using it. It should be interesting to see what happens.

So what else has Paizo done outside the Golarion star system in PF2e or PF1e?

[pauljathome]

moosher12 wrote:

But travel to Earth is intergalactic,

Do you happen to have a citation for Earth being in a different galaxy? I don't remember that from playing Rasputin

[keftiu]

Driftbourne wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Actually, you don't need time travel at all. All you need is sufficiently strong teleportation. I think there is a way, especially with the wake of the Godsrain. The thing is, on Lost Omens Earth, the current year is 1930, and there is a small amount of people that know that Earth exists and is theoretically accessible with enough power.

I haven't kept up with PF2e lore since before Remaster, had no idea there was a 1930s Earth equivalent planet in PF2e, is it actually called Earth, or does it have another name? I wonder what happens to that Earth in SF2e if it even survives.

Thanks for the information, that's really interesting. I can't imagine Paizo coming up with something like that and not eventually using it. It should be interesting to see what happens.

So what else has Paizo done outside the Golarion star system in PF2e or PF1e?

PF1e had an Adventure Path, Reign of Winter, that culminated in a jaunt to Russia in 1918.

[keftiu]

pauljathome wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

But travel to Earth is intergalactic,

Do you happen to have a citation for Earth being in a different galaxy? I don't remember that from playing Rasputin

Starfinder's setting is the Desna's Path Galaxy, as of Ports of Call.

[Driftbourne]

keftiu wrote:

Driftbourne wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Actually, you don't need time travel at all. All you need is sufficiently strong teleportation. I think there is a way, especially with the wake of the Godsrain. The thing is, on Lost Omens Earth, the current year is 1930, and there is a small amount of people that know that Earth exists and is theoretically accessible with enough power.

I haven't kept up with PF2e lore since before Remaster, had no idea there was a 1930s Earth equivalent planet in PF2e, is it actually called Earth, or does it have another name? I wonder what happens to that Earth in SF2e if it even survives.

Thanks for the information, that's really interesting. I can't imagine Paizo coming up with something like that and not eventually using it. It should be interesting to see what happens.

So what else has Paizo done outside the Golarion star system in PF2e or PF1e?

PF1e had an Adventure Path, Reign of Winter, that culminated in a jaunt to Russia in 1918.

That's interesting. Looks like Rasputin Must Die! came out in 2013. If the year was 1918 in that, then 12 years later would be 1930.

I need to build a PF2e astronomer character and start studying Pathfinder galaxy lore more.

[moosher12]

pauljathome wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

But travel to Earth is intergalactic,

Do you happen to have a citation for Earth being in a different galaxy? I don't remember that from playing Rasputin

Apparently it was not as confirmed as I thought. I saw awhile back that the Pathfinderwiki stated it was in a different galaxy. Apparently the actual source is James Jacobs stating that it is not confirmed whether Earth is in the same galaxy or a different galaxy yet. And Pathfinderwiki has since changed it from different to unknown. My bad.

Apparently James Jacobs at one point stated that Golarion, Earth, and Androffa would be in different galaxies, and the pathfinderwiki ran with that, but then later stated that as he is no longer the sole creative director, and since it was never actually put to paper, this is subject to change until Paizo wants to make an official call.

Either way, the point will stand that it's a matter of teleportation. The question would be whether rank 10 magic is enough, or if it needs to be mythic.

[moosher12]

Driftbourne wrote:

That's interesting. Looks like Rasputin Must Die! came out in 2013. If the year was 1918 in that, then 12 years later would be 1930.

I need to build a PF2e astronomer character and start studying Pathfinder galaxy lore more.

Yeap, Pathfinder's Earth takes place 95 years before our Earth.

[Driftbourne]

moosher12 wrote:

Driftbourne wrote:

That's interesting. Looks like Rasputin Must Die! came out in 2013. If the year was 1918 in that, then 12 years later would be 1930.

I need to build a PF2e astronomer character and start studying Pathfinder galaxy lore more.

Yeap, Pathfinder's Earth takes place 95 years before our Earth.

So that means my grandparents are from the Pathfinder timeline... Had I known that while they were still alive, I would have had so many more questions to ask them.

[Perpdepog]

I wonder if Pathfinder, which ever edition it is on by then, will do something crossover-y with WWII nine years from now.

[BotBrain]

Perpdepog wrote:

I wonder if Pathfinder, which ever edition it is on by then, will do something crossover-y with WWII nine years from now.

Not to be a party pooper but I hope not. WW2 alternate fiction can cross the line into yikes territoriy really fast, because you get put in a catch 22 where you ignore the holocaust, which is a bad thing to do, or you introduce the holocaust to your TTRPG with dragons and goblins. Neither option is great.

[exequiel759]

Driftbourne wrote:

I've often wondered if The Gap wasn't just a way to separate PF2e and SF2e lore, but also gave Paizo a reason not to have to make a Modernfinder to connect the two timelines.

The Gap is an excuse for them to not set a hard limit on their Pathfinder timeline. Without the Gap, at the very moment Starfinder releases you'll know how much "years of Pathfinder left" we would have, as well as all the most important things that happened in there. That is kinda bad for a setting because TTRPG settings are ultimately interactive playgrounds and knowing you have exactly this amount of years before the next setting begins and everything (or at least the most important things) that its going to happen is bad. For example, I doubt Paizo ever thought about most the things that are currently happening in Golarion when Starfinder 1e released, so if the Gap wasn't a thing, they wouldn't been able to make something like the War of Immortals event without somehow making everybody forget about it because such an event would need to be mentioned in Starfinder. The Gap also gives them freedom to keep going with both settings infinitely pretty much. The Gap could begin in 10 or in 1000 years from current Golarion, or for all that matters all the Lost Omens era could be in the Gap as well.

[James Jacobs]

Even more important, the Gap lets us do the following:

1) It prevents Starfinder creators from having to be an expert on two settings in order to maintain canon.

2) It allows the two teams (Starfinder AND Pathfinder) the freedom to build stories that they want without fear that such a story might negate or force something in the other.

3) It keeps Pathfinder's in-world future unknown, and thus prevents it from feeling like a prequel where the end state, regardless of what we publish or what your PCs accomplish in playing are locked in to one single future.

We do try to maintain stories between the two settings, since that's good for both games, but the Gap means that one world doesn't have to limit its options to the other.

[moosher12]

Perpdepog wrote:

I wonder if Pathfinder, which ever edition it is on by then, will do something crossover-y with WWII nine years from now.

As interested as I'd be in seeing it for the equipment, I frankly doubt Paizo would be willing to, and justifiably so. Gonna be hard to write a WW2 story without nazi characters, and nazis are not exactly a topic that will lead to fun experience for many, especially when at least one person might have to play the nazi.

[moosher12]

exequiel759 wrote:

For example, I doubt Paizo ever thought about most the things that are currently happening in Golarion when Starfinder 1e released, so if the Gap wasn't a thing, they wouldn't been able to make something like the War of Immortals event without somehow making everybody forget about it because such an event would need to be mentioned in Starfinder.

As an example, in Starfinder 1E, Nocticula is not the Redeemer Queen.

[Perpdepog]

moosher12 wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I wonder if Pathfinder, which ever edition it is on by then, will do something crossover-y with WWII nine years from now.

As interested as I'd be in seeing it for the equipment, I frankly doubt Paizo would be willing to, and justifiably so. Gonna be hard to write a WW2 story without nazi characters, and nazis are not exactly a topic that will lead to fun experience for many, especially when at least one person might have to play the nazi.

That's a good point. I was primarily looking at any possible tie-in beginning and ending with beating the stuffing out of nazis, but that would force the GM to play at least one, and yeah. I can see folks not wanting to engage with them even that much.

And, now I'm considering, even though player stats and monster statblocks are separated, I'd rather not give mechanics tied to those people a foothold in the game.

[Kalaam]

moosher12 wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I wonder if Pathfinder, which ever edition it is on by then, will do something crossover-y with WWII nine years from now.

As interested as I'd be in seeing it for the equipment, I frankly doubt Paizo would be willing to, and justifiably so. Gonna be hard to write a WW2 story without nazi characters, and nazis are not exactly a topic that will lead to fun experience for many, especially when at least one person might have to play the nazi.

Or you might have the opposite problem with someone who enjoys playing it a little too much

[Aristophanes]

What about inter-planar travel?
Do the inner planes only interact with Golarion? Or the Desnan Galaxy or whatever? Or are distances the same regardless of plan?

[moosher12]

Kalaam wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I wonder if Pathfinder, which ever edition it is on by then, will do something crossover-y with WWII nine years from now.

As interested as I'd be in seeing it for the equipment, I frankly doubt Paizo would be willing to, and justifiably so. Gonna be hard to write a WW2 story without nazi characters, and nazis are not exactly a topic that will lead to fun experience for many, especially when at least one person might have to play the nazi.

Or you might have the opposite problem with someone who enjoys playing it a little too much

Exactly, that is very much another factor.

[moosher12]

Aristophanes wrote:

What about inter-planar travel?

Do the inner planes only interact with Golarion? Or the Desnan Galaxy or whatever? Or are distances the same regardless of plan?

Starfinder's Hell Drives are based on this concept, and did not seem to accomodate intergalactic travel as far as I remember. This does make sense, as the Interplanar Teleport spell returns you to within 500 miles of your last location if you'd return to the universe. So interplanar teleport itself would not allow you to say, travel to the plane of air, and then travel to earth, then back to the plane of air, and then Golarion. A gate spell could reasonably do it.

A gate spell (Rank 10) can probably work, by using the same method, assuming you "have a clear idea of both the Earth's location in the Universe and what the destination looks like"

[Xenocrat]

Aristophanes wrote:

What about inter-planar travel?

Do the inner planes only interact with Golarion? Or the Desnan Galaxy or whatever? Or are distances the same regardless of plan?

Theoretically all universe planets send souls to and should be able to travel to all the same planes. That means the various planes should have giga trillions of souls and their cities at least millions of visitors from each of the billions of galaxies out there.

This, uh, doesn’t happen. Just like medieval 7th rank casters don’t go to Axis and buy level 20 Sivv hyper tech more advanced than the SF baseline. Why? Shut up we’re just trying to sell books for a silly game, that’s why.

[moosher12]

Guess the issue is 7th rank casters can't just go to the shops they want. Interplanar Teleport says you spawn in a random location, and have no control of where. And all attempts to go back will take you to within 500 miles of the location you departed from. So it sort of becomes a luck of the draw on whether you get a lucky mercantile opportunity or nothing.

The only two ways to get to a reputable shop are:
A: Use Interplanar Teleport, but go on a journey from a random location within the entirety of the plane to find the location of the shop, which might be a campaign in itself. Assuming the distance is not so far it's basically impossible.
B: Use Gate, which is 10th rank magic.