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My home game became remote because I moved away a while ago. While I ran this wasn't so bad, but as a player it's beginning to bug me. I can't see the map very well (web cam to table maps) and I got nominated to play the Wizard this time. I figure I need to get used to it because of how I can't see the map as well anymore. Large blobs of boom seem easier to see than 5-foot-palooza.
Only I can't get the DM to fail a save. And it's not like stuff's overdone, like we are legit OPENLY-ROLLED seeing him save like clockwork every time I hit him with anything. Not even save-or-suck (I never bothered trying any of those) just anything with any save attached he will make. In a year he's failed a save against something I've tossed at him (this also includes reflex saves for fireballs) about 10 times, 12 at most. That's 1 a month.
Perpetual half-damage blast spells, no access to any save or suck, no "save to reduce" spell access and it's a mostly undead campaign. But they all save. Even my necromancer channel negative commands. They. All. Save.
So now I buff in combat, stand in the back, cast Disrupt Undead as a cantrip through a Mage's Crossbow (I have no ranged feats anyway) and wait for the fight to end. Then I hate casting spells for story reasons, because they almost always fail (yes, he saves versus his own cut scenes) and we have to find out other ways anyway.
I'm 10th level, and I'd rather play a vow of poverty monk at this point for more combat interaction. In a high magic setting, where learning new spells isn't terribly hard, what am I doing wrong here?
Bonus Irony Points: I was forbidden from taking the spell "Ill Omen" by any means during character creation. I pissed off the dice Gods...
Step 1: get your group to transition to roll20 (it's free) so you can see the map.
Step 2: look at battlefield control spells, clouds, walls, pits etc..
I've run into this problem as well.
IMO, one of the fundamental problems with Pathfinder is spells vs Saving throws. You can pretty much bet that the bad guys will always pass any saving throw the need to make. Consider this:
DC = 10 + Spell level + Stat, so Fireball (a 3rd level spell) typically has a DC around 18 (assuming a 20 INT by 5th level). A 5th level character's Save is d20 (Average 11) + 4 (Assuming FAST saves) + STAT (+5 again assuming 20 stat)
So "IF" you cast a level appropriate spell at an equal level bad guy (going against his prime stat) they have better than a 50/50 chance of succeeding. and it gets worse if you cast a lower level spell or if they have any kid of boost to their stat. IF the bad guy is higher level than the party (which is common) then his chance of failing a save goes down even more.
That being said, there are ways of boosting your DC. Spell focus, Greater Spell focus, elemental focus, all come to mind. there are others. using the right spells against the right opponent. Make the wizards do reflex saves, make the fighters do will saves. Also, use the highest level spell possible (this sucks cause you run out of them fast). or use spells that don't offer a save.
But honestly, if you want to play a caster, look the TreantMonks GOD MAGE build (it's basically a buffer mage), boost your party, that way enemy saves don't matter.
I gave up on casting spells that allow saves on the bad guys a long time ago, and now mostly go for spells with no saves allowed, or on personal/party boosts. Casting Haste on your party and Greater Invisibility on the rogue will do way more damage than 2 fireballs.
Perpetual half-damage blast spells, no access to any save or suck, no "save to reduce" spell access and it's a mostly undead campaign. But they all save. Even my necromancer channel negative commands. They. All. Save.
The spell restrictions sound like your GM wants to limit wizard's power severly. So I'd double-check the save bonuses he is using.
From the Bestiary: A CR 10 creature is supposed to have a Reflex bonus of roughly +13 (if it's good at it) respective +9 (if it's bad at it). A CR 14 one is at +17 respective +12. If your GM's bonuses are much higher most / all of the time, he is worried enough to manipulate DCs to stack the odds against your wizard.
In this case you should have a talk with him: Hear about his position, try to explain your situation, look for a solution together. If you both can't figure out anything that makes both sides content, play a different character. Relying on an arms race (better feats) or a different spell strategy (control spells) will just make him introduce new nerfs.
That being said, there are ways of boosting your DC. Spell focus, Greater Spell focus, elemental focus, all come to mind. there are others. using the right spells against the right opponent. Make the wizards do reflex saves, make the fighters do will saves. Also, use the highest level spell possible (this sucks cause you run out of them fast). or use spells that don't offer a save.
Last Night's Game: Exploiter Wizard (me) uses Command Undead on an attacking Necrocraft. No intelligence, no save. He's mine. "Well he has an owner, so you have to roll against his Charisma". Ok. I have a +3. I figure I'll take my shot. Rolled a Nat 20. I was so happy.
Then he rolled a 20 on contest and since the controller had higher Charisma, I failed.
Same night. My character decides to take his shot. We have a whole hallway of undead, he has channel negative for command. These are like 15 HP skeletons. So I channel and they save. 11 Skeletons, 2 don't save. Both of them were the only 20s not rolled at 16+. And they died before they hit anything.
2 Rounds later I toss a first for me. I tossed Feeblemind. At a Sorcerer. Who had an 8 Wisdom. The DC I was able to increase it to was 22. The DM just rolled a 19.
The Paladin cast Channel Positive Energy and only 1 failed. But he rolled 7 damage, so he has his own issues with dice.
Area control is a great approach. Wall of (stone/ice/fire) restricts your opponents' movement. A pit or spiked pit can cut off their access and perhaps catch one or more of them. Sleet storm or fog cloud blinds them.
Then try area-effect spells against them. Confusion, black tentacles or fireball can hit enough opponents that some are guaranteed to fail their saves.
Lastly, don't forget summon monster.
Good luck!
I can't see well enough to start doing zone defense. I'd basically call out "I cast X. You guys place it" and go back to being bored or otherwise frustrated.
Fireball is a fan favorite. I love it. But I hate it here. I, legitimately, have only gotten full damage on 1 target with Fireball since I got it. Once. Tell me how valuable a Fireball is if the damage is always half. I wont even prepare it anymore, personally.
I have Black Tenticles. It can't grapple. So what's it good for? I've cast it 3 times. Twice in groups. It has never grappled anyone. They save.
And you are right. My last recourse is summoning. But Summoning always feels like you're hogging the game. And if someone casts Dispel, I assume I lose. I don't assume "Well I can roll" I know I lose.
So if Wizard boils down to "Buff and shut up" I'd rather do ANYTHING else.
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2 Rounds later I toss a first for me. I tossed Feeblemind. At a Sorcerer. Who had an 8 Wisdom. The DC I was able to increase it to was 22. The DM just rolled a 19.
I agree with the general comments here - this string of bad luck really shouldn't be holding up to the amount of times the dice have been rolled, but this isn't how wizards have to be in pf1 - especially exploiter wizards, a very powerful archetype. Looking at the maths on this situation in particular:
- Your DC is 22, casting a 5th level spell at level 10; given you haven't stated a particular focus on Feeblemind, I'd imagine that corresponds to a +5 or +6 INT modifier with a +1/+2 boost from your exploiter wizard archetype, given you said you increased it. This is at a point where you'd be expecting a +4 enhancement bonus to your INT, or one very soon; starting with an 18 in your mental stat is a reasonable expectation, giving you a 24/+7 INT (18 base + 2 from levelling up + 4 enhancement). That'd put you at a DC 22 before further increases. I'd encourage you picking up the Potent Magic exploit, letting you increase any spell's DC by 2. That'd get you to a base DC of 24 before any modifications; it's also a good idea to specialise in a school of magic, and Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus would take you up to DC 26 when casting a max-level spell from your chosen school of magic and boosting it with your Reservoir. That's not going too over the top, I think - there's various ways to increase it further, but DC 26 is a good DC at this point.
- A non-munchkinned 8 Wis sorcerer that's an appropriate threat really shouldn't be saving against that spell; let's call them level 13 as a boss with PC-equivalent gear, that gives them at most a will save of roughly +7 (+8 class -1 wisdom +4 resistance - 4 arcane caster vs feeblemind). With your DC 22, that's still only a 30% chance of success; with the heightened DC 26, they need a 19 or 20 on the dice to succeed. If you've got odds that good and are still consistently failing, it's worth discussing things with your GM - that's just really implausible. If you've got much worse odds than that, your GM is likely intentionally trying to counter your spells, and it's worth a discussion seeking to tone that down a little bit, given it is significantly affecting your enjoyment of the game.
If you want more certainty, there are other ways to boost DCs - but I think this might be an out-of-character issue, and worth having a discussion with your GM about it first, rather than escalating things to a build change.
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A GM with perpetual good rolls can indeed hamper a spell-focused caster. I've been there and it sucks. Normally one would revert back towards Walls, Summons, and obstacles, but your map situation prevents it. Which means that you need to get the rolls away from the GM and back to you; casting spells that require you to hit for effect, instead of the enemy to save to prevent it. Here are some highlights in this regard:
LVL 1: Shocking Grasp (combined with Reach and Intensified Metamagic, it deals enough damage without a save)
LVL 1: Snowball (you hit, you deal damage. A good one for Intensified Metamagic)
LVL 2: Burst of Radiance (note that the save is only against blind, not versus the damage)
LVL 2: Eroding Ray (in case of constructs/Golems)
LVL 2: Frigid Touch (a good candidate for Reach Metamagic)
LVL 2: Molten Orb (not great damage, but no save either)
LVL 2: Pilfering Hand Take away stuff with your roll, no saves involved)
LVL 2: Scorching Ray (hit with rays, no save)
LVL 2: Stone Call (no save massive difficult terrain, combine it with Featherstep if possible through your allies)
LVL 2: Stricken Heart (Reach Metamagic allows for close range, no save some damage and guaranteed stagger. Also good in Spellstoring armor)
LVL 3: Battering Blast (only a save to not be tripped, not versus damage)
LVL 3: Dispel Magic (you'll need to boost it through Dispel Focus, Greater Dispel Focus, and a handful of Myhr, but it is a roll from your side to say no to the opponent)
LVL 3: Swipe (take the item of your enemy with a roll from your side)
LVL 4: Enervation (in case of living creatures)
LVL 4: Named Bullet (if there are many undead, you can get a ranged ally a free crit.
LVL 4: Rising Water (you can force underwater combat everywhere. bonus points if you cast Waterbreathing on the party and they have means to gain swimspeeds)
LVL 4: Telekinetic Charge (just dump your frontliner into the fray)
LVL 5: Telekinesis (use the combat maneuver version or violent thrust with items, not creatures)
There might be more, but these spells but the dicerolls back in your hands, so the enemies saves no longer influence your results. Hopefully it is useful for you.
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Ah yes, the command undead channel thingy. I usually avoid using that ability because it counts as Channel Energy, and a great number of undead have channel resistance (which adds to their already good Will save, usually a bonus of 2 to 4).
I do agree that Black Tentacles is mainly useful against larger squads of lower level undead, as you can target their CMD far easier. Against single creatures (especially larger ones) it is far less useful and successful.
That being said, there are ways of boosting your DC. Spell focus, Greater Spell focus, elemental focus, all come to mind. there are others. using the right spells against the right opponent. Make the wizards do reflex saves, make the fighters do will saves. Also, use the highest level spell possible (this sucks cause you run out of them fast). or use spells that don't offer a save.Last Night's Game: Exploiter Wizard (me) uses Command Undead on an attacking Necrocraft. No intelligence, no save. He's mine. "Well he has an owner, so you have to roll against his Charisma". Ok. I have a +3. I figure I'll take my shot. Rolled a Nat 20. I was so happy.
Then he rolled a 20 on contest and since the controller had higher Charisma, I failed.
Same night. My character decides to take his shot. We have a whole hallway of undead, he has channel negative for command. These are like 15 HP skeletons. So I channel and they save. 11 Skeletons, 2 don't save. Both of them were the only 20s not rolled at 16+. And they died before they hit anything.
2 Rounds later I toss a first for me. I tossed Feeblemind. At a Sorcerer. Who had an 8 Wisdom. The DC I was able to increase it to was 22. The DM just rolled a 19.
The Paladin cast Channel Positive Energy and only 1 failed. But he rolled 7 damage, so he has his own issues with dice.
Area control is a great approach. Wall of (stone/ice/fire) restricts your opponents' movement. A pit or spiked pit can cut off their access and perhaps catch one or more of them. Sleet storm or fog cloud blinds them.
Then try area-effect spells against them. Confusion, black tentacles or fireball can hit enough opponents that some are guaranteed to fail their saves.
Lastly, don't forget summon monster.
Good luck!
I can't see well enough to start doing zone defense. I'd basically call out "I cast X. You guys place it" and go back to being bored or otherwise frustrated.
Fireball is a fan...
I don't want to make any accusations, but quite frankly, it sounds like your GM is cheating. If so, I recommend finding another group to game with.
What's your GM's rolling like on things other than Saves (like for instance, Attack Rolls)? Maybe your GM has some trick for rolling really well, even when everyone is looking at the dice on camera. (For instance, spin-stabilization can be used to get good rolls on smaller dice, but that doesn't work on d20s. More subtly if the mechanical properties and starting state of the dice and surfaces are known, it is in principle possible to predict what the ending state of the die will be for a given throw, or how to do the throw to get a desired ending state -- even a die that isn't loaded to favor one outcome is not technically a perfect random number generator, even if it seems that way in practice.)
If you want to get away from relying on enemy save = negate spells, I would focus on Ranged Touch attacks, Touch Attacks that become Ranged Touch w/ Reach MM, and Reflex Spells that are Save for Half dmg (you still cause damage on a save, and you can boost your damage with MM Rods or Feats of Empower/Maximize/Intensify, etc). Some of your best debuffs are Touch Spells and you can make them Reach Touch Spells to keep yourself out of melee range, and I'd get both the Reach MM as a Feat as well as the Reach MM Rod.
The typical monster or humanoid has a Touch AC of 13-ish (barring high-Dex Rogue types), making it one of the easiest things to attack in the game.
Tbh though, it sounds like you're just getting really unlucky with rolls from your DM, and this isn't necessarily your fault, but there are some things you can do about it. The best advice I can give you for a situation like that is to focus heavily on increasing your DC's, and I mean heavily-- put your DC's in the clouds so that any roll of 15 or lower fails. Get the highest level +2/+4/+6 Headband of Int at each earliest level possible as you level up. Get liberal with your uses of Arcane Reservoir/Potent Magic Exploit, and pick a school of magic you want to be good at and put Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus in that. Plan towards getting Spell Perfection at level 15 so that your SF/GSF doubles the DC bonus from +2 to +4 for that perfected spell. Heighten Spell is probably one of the most underrated Metamagics in the game. I'd strongly recommend getting it for when you really need the extra umph DC-wise. Metamixing Exploit can help pump in any MM feats you need on the fly, and so can Preferred Spell.
You should definitely pump up your DC's using this stuff---^, but also think about offensively debuffing enemy saves as well, then it doesn't matter what they roll (as long as it's not a 20).
See if you can talk to your party about debuffing with Shaken/Sicken somehow (Martials can get power attack, cornugon smash, and +1 cruel enchant-- this is one of the easiest/cheapest ways to get Shaken/Sicken combo). This duo of Shaken/Sicken debuffs provides a -4 penalty to Saves.
For AoE debuffing enemy Will saves, Mind Fog can melt faces. Keep a wind spell memorized (or at least on a wand) in case you need to disperse it for your allies.
Bestow Curse and Greater Bestow Curse can debuff Saves by -4 and -8, respectively, and this is a Touch spell that you can easily Reach MM into Close/Med range.
Once you're level 13+, Limited Wish can debuff saves by -7.
Lastly, I'd plan out your daily spells so that you have a generous medley of spells that can attack Touch AC, Fort Save, Will Save, Reflex Save, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Negative Energy. Every monster/NPC you face is weak to something, so another thing to consider is choosing the right spell for the right job. The Quick Study Exploit can be handy for changing your spells around as situations come up as well.
^Persistent Spell is usually better than Heighten Spell (see here for math -- eventually you'll want both, since you can't actually get the hypothetical double application of Persistent Spell used in the math dissection).
Another approach would be to become an Arcane Trickster and get Sneak Attack on your damaging spells. You can use Sense Vitals to buff yourself to get even more Sneak Attack -- it explicitly stacks with any other Precision Damage (including other Sneak Attack) that you have -- won't help you qualify for Arcane Trickster, but will make you better at it.
^Persistent Spell is usually better than Heighten Spell (see here for math -- eventually you'll want both, since you can't actually get the hypothetical double application of Persistent Spell used in the math dissection).
Another approach would be to become an Arcane Trickster and get Sneak Attack on your damaging spells. You can use Sense Vitals to buff yourself to get even more Sneak Attack -- it explicitly stacks with any other Precision Damage (including other Sneak Attack) that you have -- won't help you qualify for Arcane Trickster, but will make you better at it.
Yeah, Persistent Spell is a great idea. Having to Save twice is a godsend for Save or Die casters.
Arcane Trickster is a great idea too, but you shouldn't just decide "oh hey I'm gonna go 10 levels of AT" all willy-nilly in the middle of a campaign. This is a multi-class/PrC build that can backfire in your face if you do it wrong, so if you weren't planning on doing ArcTrickster from the start of your character conception, I wouldn't do it. You usually want to be finished with all 10 of your AT levels by level 14-15 so you can start SnAing with your spells, and if the OP decided to go AT levels right now, he'd first have to go 1 level of Rogue at 11, use his level 11 feat to get Accomplished SnA, and then at level 12 he could get his first level of AT, and then he'd never make it to AT10 unless his game goes past level 20; you wouldn't be SnAing with spells until level 21. And that's an awful long time.
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Another approach would be to become an Arcane Trickster and get Sneak Attack on your damaging spells. You can use Sense Vitals to buff yourself to get even more Sneak Attack -- it explicitly stacks with any other Precision Damage (including other Sneak Attack) that you have -- won't help you qualify for Arcane Trickster, but will make you better at it.{. . .}
Arcane Trickster is a great idea too, but you shouldn't just decide "oh hey I'm gonna go 10 levels of AT" all willy-nilly in the middle of a campaign. This is a multi-class/PrC build that can backfire in your face if you do it wrong, so if you weren't planning on doing ArcTrickster from the start of your character conception, I wouldn't do it. You usually want to be finished with all 10 of your AT levels by level 14-15 so you can start SnAing with your spells, and if the OP decided to go AT levels right now, he'd first have to go 1 level of Rogue at 11, use his level 11 feat to get Accomplished SnA, and then at level 12 he could get his first level of AT, and then he'd never make it to AT10 unless his game goes past level 20; you wouldn't be SnAing with spells until level 21. And that's an awful long time.
If you can Sneak Attack with a weapon that requires an attack roll (this includes ranged weapons), you can Sneak Attack with a spell that requires an attack roll. The Arcane Trickster 10th level ability (Surprise Spells) is only required to do this with spells that DON'T require an attack roll or that you are targeting beyond your maximum Sneak Attack range. The Wizard spell list has a decent selection of damaging spells that require an attack roll (usually against Touch AC, so you have a respectable chance even with 1/2 BAB as long as you aren't up against something like a Monk or a Pixie.
The preparation concern is legitimate, but you could retrain some stuff to get into Arcane Trickster. Probably best would be to retrain 1 level of Wizard into Unchained Rogue (for free Weapon Finesse -- if you already have Weapon Finesse then you could consider Vivisectionist Alchemist) and retrain 1 feat into Accomplished Sneak Attacker, and you're good to start Arcane Trickster with your next level. Or if you can't retrain and are willing to wait a bit, you could make your next level be Unchained Rogue (or Vivisectionist Alchemist) and your next feat be Accomplished Sneak Attacker (this works better if your next level is odd, so that you can get both at the same time). Then the next level after that is Arcane Trickster.
Yeah, I've played an AT before, and honestly it was one of my favorite classes I've ever played, but SnAing with Rays (you only get 1 SnA with a multiple-ray spell) is nothing like SnAing with ALL spells; the difference is not night and day, it's a whole new world. You want to be starting combat by sneaking up with Greater Invisibility and hucking Intensified Firesnakes and Widened Fireballs that cause 7d6 SnA at level 14, not level 21.
I really doubt the OP is going to have fun plugging 1/2 of his daily spell slots as Rays that deal 2d6-6d6 SnA to a single target for 10 straight levels during some of the most challenging levels in the game (level 12-20). As a wizard, you want to have a wide selection of spells, and AT forces you into Rays (levels AT1-9 anyway) because SnA becomes a significant portion of your dmg, except by level 14, you should be doing 7d6 SnA to multiple targets, not 3d6 to a single target.
I remember feeling quite weak between levels 5 and 13 compared to the others because I had less spells than a wizard, and less skills than a rogue, but it was all worth it once I had Surprise Spells-- it's arguably one of the best capstones in the game, and I can only imagine what he's going to feel like between levels 12-20.
I really do believe that starting this PrC this late in the game is character suicide. I bet he "falls" off a cliff with a "Do Not Resuscitate" bracelet on his wrist by level 15. AT is a PrC that you make deliberate plans to enter at character conception, it's not a PrC you decide to enter at level 10 because you have a "DM keeps passing my Saving Throws" problem.
If the OP's game is going levels 21+, then it's possibly worth going AT. But you need Widen, Empower, Maximize, Intensify, Heighten, and Preferred Spell(Fireball) to make it work well, plus you need a high Stealth, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, and Perception, because now you're the Point Man of the group. You're the Trap Sniffer / Scout, but you're also the Utility guy-- and being the Utility guy is hard when you don't have Preferred Spell (Fireball) because now you have to pack your entire daily spells full of different versions of your Fireball. It's entirely possible to get a lot of this stuff by level 21 though, but that's why I say you need to enter AT on purpose; you want all this stuff online (or getting close) at level 14.
Yeah, I've played an AT before, and honestly it was one of my favorite classes I've ever played, but SnAing with Rays (you only get 1 SnA with a multiple-ray spell) is nothing like SnAing with ALL spells; the difference is not night and day, it's a whole new world. You want to be starting combat by sneaking up with Greater Invisibility and hucking Intensified Firesnakes and Widened Fireballs that cause 7d6 SnA at level 14, not level 21.
I really doubt the OP is going to have fun plugging 1/2 of his daily spell slots as Rays that deal 2d6-6d6 SnA to a single target for 10 straight levels during some of the most challenging levels in the game (level 12-20). {. . .}
Admittedly starting late is a lot less good than starting early, and it will be rough, but it a bit better than you think. For starters, you aren't confined to Ray spells -- unless I have missed something hidden in a really weird place, any spell that has an attack roll will do, so Acid Arrow (ranged No Save No SR persistent damage to use against enemy spellcasters), Acid Splash (ranged No Save No SR Cantrip), Reach Persistent Chill Touch (debuff as well as damage, and 1 attack per round), Disrupt Undead (ranged No Save Cantrip), and Reach Intensified Shocking Grasp (boring, but it does do decent base damage and is No Save) will all get you Sneak Attack damage. This is of course as long as you don't exceed the range limit (30 feet if you haven't done anything to increase your Sneak Attack range). (You could get Sneak Attack with the normal version of the spells listed as using Reach Spell, but that's rather risky.) Sense Vitals also gets you +3d6 Sneak Attack at 10th level (+4d6 at 12th level, and +5d6 at 15th level), so you aren't starting off with 2d6 Sneak Attack. It doesn't last very long (even with Extend Spell), but it's a 2nd level spell, which is still within the range in which Wands are affordable, especially if you craft one yourself, so it might be worth carrying one of these around. Prepare most of your spells for battlefield control, buffing, defenae, and utility, and turn your damaging Cantrips and a few choice combination damage + debuff spells (the above is not an exhaustive list) into your damage-dealing machines, even if it's on just 1 target at a time. Of course, spells like Scorching Ray that fire off multiple Ranged Touch Attacks simultaneously are not bad -- although you only get 1 Sneak Attack with them, you will get your Sneak Attack against a Flat-Footed enemy unless you miss with ALL of the Ranged Touch Attacks.