So Logan Bonner has responded with some clarifications about Glyph of Warding. To which I am grateful. I'm not precious about how the communication happens just so long as it does happen. I expect they will choose to tidy the wording up in an official form at some point.
So what has he said (yes I'm paraphrasing)?
1) that the person triggering the glyph has to be the one doing the action, you can't trigger a glyph by throwing it at an enemy and having it incidentally touch or break on them. The glyph just fails in that circumstance.
2) that all the triggers on an object touch, move, open are active. You can't choose to have it trigger on one of these but not another.
Which is good as both of these were arguable before, and now they are not. Less rules arguments, less arbitrary restrictions from a GM.
So what can you do with glyph of warding? This is what I want to discuss. I'm going to put some ideas out there to discuss. Please shoot me down when I go too far. Preferably with a reason as to why it is too far.
Base use case as a glyph: It looks like I can put a glyph of warding on a spellbook, a coin pouch, a water bottle, a back pack. Lots of things. I can set it up so myself won't ever trigger the glyph, or anyone who says a password won't trigger the glyph, or anyone with a blue hat won't trigger the glyph. I can carry the item around all day and I'm safe.
I can put fireball in the glyph and it will work. But maybe it will trigger at an inconvenient time so perhaps Shocking Grasp or Phantom Pain might be a better choice as they won't damage the object the glyph is on or cause collateral damage.
It looks like there are no problems here so the spell gets a tick. It is functional for its intended purpose.
What else can I do with it?
You can still use it as a portable bomb in a number of different ways. Lets go through some:
a)If I know an enemy will be moving through an area I can set the spell up before the encounter. But there is no particular advantage here except in number of actions. Its not substantially different to setting up a snare or a mundane trap.
b)You can convince the enemy to activate a glyph you have put on a prepared object. Say a coin pouch, which you toss to an enemy as a "bribe", or a large piece of raw meat for a guard animal. The enemy may well choose to touch the item and therefore trigger the glyph themselves. Maybe the GM will ask for a Deception skill check. In a sense the GM has to cooperate and agree that the enemy action is reasonable and choose to do it.
c)You can toss a glyphed object out towards your enemies and deliberately activate it yourself or with the help of your allies. Mage hand can probably do it. You could use an expendable minion like a summoned creature. If you have allies with some immunities then with the right spell they might even be perfectly safe to do that.
Cast Glyph of Warding containing Fireball on a large burlap sack. Designate yourself as being allowed to move the container. Use the sack as a shield against ranged attacks. When an arrow hits the sack, the enemy will have deliberately moved the bag with the arrow. Since the Fireball spell has an area, the enemy that triggered the Glyph becomes the center of the Fireball effect.
c)You can toss a glyphed object out towards your enemies and deliberately activate it yourself or with the help of your allies. Mage hand can probably do it.
I initially thought of that too, but the wording of the spell says that if the spell has an area or targets a creature, the creature that triggered the Glyph becomes the target or the center of the area.
So if you move the container with mage hand from a safe distance, you are still the center of the Fireball.
You could use an expendable minion like a summoned creature. If you have allies with some immunities then with the right spell they might even be perfectly safe to do that.
That would work with area spells though.
Cast Glyph of Warding containing Fireball on a large burlap sack. Designate yourself as being allowed to move the container. Use the sack as a shield against ranged attacks. When an arrow hits the sack, the enemy will have deliberately moved the bag with the arrow. Since the Fireball spell has an area, the enemy that triggered the Glyph becomes the center of the Fireball effect.
You are thinking too small. Attach four of the sacks to the front of your shield. Then when you Shield Block, you will block the arrow and the enemy will trigger all four Fireballs at the same time.
The other thing you could probably do is deliberately set the glyph off yourself. By not saying the right password when you pull it out of it container. Or maybe you could just get an ally maybe a familiar to touch it. Familiar's can't activate magic items, but they can definitely activate traps.
So why would you want to trigger what the gylph spell says has to be a hostile spell effect on yourself or your ally? Well the definition of hostile is a bit vague A hostile action is one that can harm or damage another creature, whether directly or indirectly, but not one that a creature is unaware could cause harm. Is there a better definition in the rules?
So Fireball is hostile.
Color Spray is hostile.
Is Darkness or Fog Cloud hostile? I think so.
Is Lightning Bolt hostile? You think this question is obvious but there are creatures like the Shambler which is actually healed and quickend by electrical damage. You can summon these as a Druid.
Is Harm hostile? Probably but players can have negative healing these days.
Is Heal hostile? If an undead triggers it I guess.
By now hopefully it is clear that there is a can of worms here. Players can make themsleves resistant or immune or even just tactically prepared for these situations. I don't see that the rules stop any of these uses.
Step 1: Cast 5+ Fireballs onto a small sack with a trigger like "people who aren't holding x holy symbol", or "people with their fingers crossed", whatever works.
Step 2: Get your Rogue all the Fire Resist gear they want, doesn't need that much to be honest. Use a potion I guess. Also a Backfire Mantle for the bonus to saves.
Step 3: They Stride next to the target(s) and release the symbol, or do whatever, to meet the trigger.
Step 4: Kaboom.
High Reflex and Evasion + Fire Resist means they don't take much damage per Fireball, but enemies are toast.
c)You can toss a glyphed object out towards your enemies and deliberately activate it yourself or with the help of your allies. Mage hand can probably do it.I initially thought of that too, but the wording of the spell says that if the spell has an area or targets a creature, the creature that triggered the Glyph becomes the target or the center of the area.
So if you move the container with mage hand from a safe distance, you are still the center of the Fireball.
Yeah I see what you are saying.
To me this fails the common sense test for mage hand. If for example I used a 20ft long pole to touch an item - so I would be out of range of the effect, I'd be pretty disappointed if the GM ruled this way. To me this is a fairly arbitrary and unnatural way for a GM to say no, that is just neutering the intended use of mage hand and a long pole.
Anyway my recommendation to players is to test your GMs rulings beforehand in a safe scenario, with a less than lethal glyph.
My second recommendation is to be accepting of your GM when your GM changes his mind because you work out how to abuse things. Eventually you may have to accept some pretty arbitrary rulings.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Glyph is for *Warding* so you need to have someone accessing a thing without the password or w/e. You can put it on all sorts of tantalizing boxes and bags and sealed tomes that you want, but the person who would be the target of the spell has to be able to decide "nah, I'm not going to open the box."
Stuff like "blow up anybody who steps in this tile" is fine, but there are other traps that do the same thing.
Cast Glyph of Warding containing Fireball on a large burlap sack. Designate yourself as being allowed to move the container. Use the sack as a shield against ranged attacks. When an arrow hits the sack, the enemy will have deliberately moved the bag with the arrow. Since the Fireball spell has an area, the enemy that triggered the Glyph becomes the center of the Fireball effect.You are thinking too small. Attach four of the sacks to the front of your shield. Then when you Shield Block, you will block the arrow and the enemy will trigger all four Fireballs at the same time.
Technically this could work but a GM could also rule in differently here: that the thing touching the glyph is the arrow not the archer, so the effect is centered at the location of the arrows impact. Which is probably not so good for you.
Yes a similar scenario could maybe work by putting a gylph on a shield and using it in melee. Then when you block a melee strike a single targetted spell effect could go off. The argument then becomes did the attacker touch the glyph or did the defender hit the attacker with the glyph (which Logan clearly says doesn't work).
I guess if you just put the glyph on your armour eventually an attacking enemy is going to touch it at some point.
But as a GM I would always rule against stacking up glyphs. Definitely one glyph per object or area only - I'm surprised its not already in the text of the gylph of warding spell. Purely on balance reasons. The players don't want to be running into the GMs stacking up glyphs either. It's related to the basic assumption/convention of balance in the game.
Technically this could work but a GM could also rule in differently here: that the thing touching the glyph is the arrow not the archer, so the effect is centered at the location of the arrows impact. Which is probably not so good for you.
Well, does that also work the other direction? Can I bypass Glyph of Warding by poking things with a stick before touching them myself? Or wear gloves when opening the container so that the gloves are the target of the Phantom Pain spell in the Glyph? Or maybe since the target has to be a creature, the Glyph doesn't get set off at all if I am wearing gloves?
The old school Glyph of Warding had the one glyph per item or space rule, so it's odd that Paizo deleted that, though the cap of how many one can make might have been their solution instead.
Personally I'd think the detonator would have to actively be trying to engage with the item, so blocking with it wouldn't work, though that leaves plenty of space for PCs & their minions to activate glyphs.
If this arose I'd run it through the "So you're saying it's perfectly fair for enemies to do this?" questionnaire and see how the players responded. With how many spare slots an NPC could have, this could get deadly (w/ no extra XP if cast from that day's allotment of spells).
I've yet to have any similar shenanigan pass that test, so I doubt it'd come to that. :-)
Technically this could work but a GM could also rule in differently here: that the thing touching the glyph is the arrow not the archer, so the effect is centered at the location of the arrows impact. Which is probably not so good for you.Well, does that also work the other direction? Can I bypass Glyph of Warding by poking things with a stick before touching them myself?
I agree the GM needs to be consistent. Maybe a long enough stick would work. It depends on the spell in the glyph. Either way there are some minor problems here.
Or wear gloves when opening the container so that the gloves are the target of the Phantom Pain spell in the Glyph? Or maybe since the target has to be a creature, the Glyph doesn't get set off at all if I am wearing gloves?
OK I think this sort of line of argument is clearly going too far.
Or wear gloves when opening the container so that the gloves are the target of the Phantom Pain spell in the Glyph? Or maybe since the target has to be a creature, the Glyph doesn't get set off at all if I am wearing gloves?OK I think this sort of line of argument is clearly going too far.
But it is fun to break things.
Stuff that still kinda works, Fiery Body + a bunch of fireballs on your person.
Cheap minions (Animate Object) + Final Sacrifice.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The other thing you could probably do is deliberately set the glyph off yourself. By not saying the right password when you pull it out of it container. Or maybe you could just get an ally maybe a familiar to touch it. Familiar's can't activate magic items, but they can definitely activate traps.
So why would you want to trigger what the gylph spell says has to be a hostile spell effect on yourself or your ally? Well the definition of hostile is a bit vague A hostile action is one that can harm or damage another creature, whether directly or indirectly, but not one that a creature is unaware could cause harm. Is there a better definition in the rules?
So Fireball is hostile.
Color Spray is hostile.
Is Darkness or Fog Cloud hostile? I think so.
Is Lightning Bolt hostile? You think this question is obvious but there are creatures like the Shambler which is actually healed and quickend by electrical damage. You can summon these as a Druid.
Is Harm hostile? Probably but players can have negative healing these days.
Is Heal hostile? If an undead triggers it I guess.By now hopefully it is clear that there is a can of worms here. Players can make themsleves resistant or immune or even just tactically prepared for these situations. I don't see that the rules stop any of these uses.
I'd say a damage requirement is too narrow a requirement.
I'd simply have it so that if the spell requires a saving throw it counts.
For example, Force Cage - It's definitely a hostile action, as you are trying to trap a creature in a magical cage, against which they get to make a saving throw. Force Cage looks like a great candidate for a Glyph of Warding for lots of reasons but doesn't cause damage.
Contrast that to Wall of Force. Can be used in a similar fashion, but Wall of Force doesn't require a save and doesn't have any inherent hostile application, even though it can be used to mimic a lot of the functionality of Force Cage.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, I'd definitely forbid any moving Glyph and any stackable Glyph.
The spell intention is pretty straightforward, it has to be put on a stationary object. If you move the object, then the Glyph doesn't work at all.
And I apply the rule that if the same spell is cast twice on the same target only one of the spells applies.
I've played in games with Glyph of Warding and similar spells shenanigans, and it was just ruining the experience. So my answer to any question starting with "Can I use Glyph of Warding" is no. If you have to ask, it's because you are trying to game the game.
So I guess the basic endgame boss killing trick still works then?
Caster A puts Boss X into a maze
Caster B time stops, empties (turns inside out) bags of holding filled with glyphed whatevers into boss's space
Caster C readies an action to command his familiar to set them off
Caster C readies an action to command his familiar to set them off
Oh hairballs. You could at least use a level 1 creature summoning spell instead. Or are you really that short on time?
Plus, minion characters are expressly forbidden from acting when it is not their master's actual turn. Readied actions wouldn't work. Delay caster C's turn instead.
Caster C readies an action to command his familiar to set them offOh hairballs. You could at least use a level 1 creature summoning spell instead. Or are you really that short on time?
Plus, minion characters are expressly forbidden from acting when it is not their master's actual turn. Readied actions wouldn't work. Damn, overlooked that. Delay caster C's turn instead.
Delay, unfortunately, gives the boss a turn beyond its first (presumably to set up ideal initiative). Guess we'll just have to have cleric D revive caster C after they give their life to the cause.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And what is the purpose of Maze? It looks like all you need is the two spellcasters to have their turns back to back without the boss moving. Delay would do that.
You would have to be using Area spells in the Glyphs since otherwise they would only target the summoned creature. So dumping them in the space next to the boss would be just as good as dumping them in the boss's actual space.
And what is the purpose of Maze? It looks like all you need is the two spellcasters to have their turns back to back without the boss moving. Delay would do that.
You would have to be using Area spells in the Glyphs since otherwise they would only target the summoned creature. So dumping them in the space next to the boss would be just as good as dumping them in the boss's actual space.
If I remember my math right, you need 3 casters minimum worth of glyph fireballs to kill treerazer through fire resist and succeeding on every save (0 CS, 0 F, 0 CF). I know final sacrifices will do it for sure. Maze removes the target from the board and counters any effects that might prevent getting closer to the target. Time stop gives you more than enough time to get in close to set it up.
Using cold final sacrifices instead, I think this drops the Tarrasque as well before it gets back up and eats you.
And no idea why I said in the boss's space. I'll chalk that up to temporary insanity.
Edit: 3rd caster also gives you a second maze if you need it because of counter effects or something. Redundancies don't hurt to have if you ever need more whiteroom cheese.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, I'd definitely forbid any moving Glyph and any stackable Glyph.
The spell intention is pretty straightforward, it has to be put on a stationary object. If you move the object, then the Glyph doesn't work at all.
That is clearly just not true. The spell saysTargets 1 container or a 10-foot-by-10-foot area.
Putting Glyphs or Explosive Runes on a spellbook or scroll is a staple of the genre. The rule as currently written basically supports use like this, and I want my players to do this.
And I apply the rule that if the same spell is cast twice on the same target only one of the spells applies.
Yeah that is common sense. Clearly stacking effects is broken. I think any sane GM is going to have to do that.
I've played in games with Glyph of Warding and similar spells shenanigans, and it was just ruining the experience. So my answer to any question starting with "Can I use Glyph of Warding" is no. If you have to ask, it's because you are trying to game the game.
But I find this approach too negative. Just saying no is too quick, too easy, and not a satisfactory long term answer. It acknowledges a problem without fixing it.
So this is how I'm going to play glyph of wardings in my games. These are all interpretations of the spell because it just doesn't give enough details to be clear in itself
1) Glyphs don't ever stack. There can only be one on each area or object. If you put a second one on, then roll to counteract the one that is already there.
2) Glyphs on your person or on items that you are wearing or carrying won't activate while they are on you. Assuming you met the condition to safely pick them up in the first place. To activate they have to be removed from your person first. This means that putting a rune on a shield does nothing while you are holding it. Tossing a glyphed item will do nothing, until someone else picks it up. If someone takes a glyphed item from you it will likely activate.
3) If you touch a glyphed item and it activates - then the area of effect becomes centered on you. This occurs even if you are using reach, and could potentially move the effect a moderate distance. If the glyph has a line or a cone area, the GM will arrange the area of effect so it points from the glyphed item towards its victim. It may get secondary targets.
4) Ranged effects like mage hand, an extending rune or an arrow do not trigger glyphs.
5) For a spell to be put in a glyph is has to be hostile. In this context it means that it must do damage, or impose a negative condition. Special GM Fiat: A Heal spell in a glyph will only ever harm undead and never heal the living. Similarily a Harm spell in a glyph will only ever harm the living and never heal the undead.
So this is how I'm going to play glyph of wardings in my games. These are all interpretations of the spell because it just doesn't give enough details to be clear in itself
A couple of those (#1 and #5) are almost certainly houserules. #4 the RAW is ambiguous enough that it is just a ruling or adjudication.
--------
And if we are presenting houserules, this is what I run with:
Split the spell into 3 different spells.
Changes:
Glyph of Warding - Target: a 10x10 foot area or one container that is in that area. If the container leaves the area the spell dissipates.
Glyph of Ownership - Target: one item or container that is held, carried, worn, stowed in a worn pack, or otherwise constantly in your attended possession. Spell selection: Only spells that target one or more creatures are available for putting in the Glyph - area spells are not. Activation: The spell activates when the container is opened by anyone other than you or it is removed from your possession. The spell does not activate or dissipate when you open the container or use the item. If you cause the item or container to leave your own possession (typically by setting it down, throwing, or dropping it) the spell dissipates.
Glyph of Secrecy - Target: one container. No spell gets placed in this glyph. The glyph triggers when anyone other than you or someone who knows the password opens the container. When activated the glyph destroys all items inside the container that have a lower item level than the spell (no save).
So this is how I'm going to play glyph of wardings in my games. These are all interpretations of the spell because it just doesn't give enough details to be clear in itselfA couple of those (#1 and #5) are almost certainly houserules. #4 the RAW is ambiguous enough that it is just a ruling or adjudication.
Yep. I don't contradict anything in the rules as written. Just a couple of extra restrictions #1 for balance, and #5 a minor limit to close an exploit. The rest of it is just really how I interpret the existing rules in a way I find workable. Yes with thought players can still get some mileage out of the spell. My interpretations just stop the most grevious abuses.
And if we are presenting houserules, this is what I run with:Split the spell into 3 different spells.
Changes:
Glyph of Warding - Target: a 10x10 foot area or one container that is in that area. If the container leaves the area the spell dissipates.
Glyph of Ownership - Target: one item or container that is held, carried, worn, stowed in a worn pack, or otherwise constantly in your attended possession. Spell selection: Only spells that target one or more creatures are available for putting in the Glyph - area spells are not. Activation: The spell activates when the container is opened by anyone other than you or it is removed from your possession. The spell does not activate or dissipate when you open the container or use the item. If you cause the item or container to leave your own possession (typically by setting it down, throwing, or dropping it) the spell dissipates.
Glyph of Secrecy - Target: one container. No spell gets placed in this glyph. The glyph triggers when anyone other than you or someone who knows the password opens the container. When activated the glyph destroys all items inside the container that have a lower item level than the spell (no save).
These are reasonable but you are really changing things here. You are rewriting the spell. Spontanteous casters are probably not going to want to use the spell if you separate it like this. I'd think it would be better if you leave it as 3 ways of casting the one spell.
These are reasonable but you are really changing things here. You are rewriting the spell. Spontanteous casters are probably not going to want to use the spell if you separate it like this. I'd think it would be better if you leave it as 3 ways of casting the one spell.
That's why I clearly call it a houserule.
And yeah, I can see your point. It could very easily be a modal spell like Chill Touch where the effect changes drastically depending on target, and Command where you can make important decisions on what the spell does.
Putting Glyphs or Explosive Runes on a spellbook or scroll is a staple of the genre. The rule as currently written basically supports use like this, and I want my players to do this.
As you pointed out, it says "container". So, neither a book nor a scroll are valid targets. I can choose to houserule that you can, but at first glance the Glyph can't be put on a spellbook unless you put this spellbook inside a container.
As you pointed out, it says "container". So, neither a book nor a scroll are valid targets. I can choose to houserule that you can, but at first glance the Glyph can't be put on a spellbook unless you put this spellbook inside a container.
Putting Glyphs or Explosive Runes on a spellbook or scroll is a staple of the genre. The rule as currently written basically supports use like this, and I want my players to do this.
Maybe certain spellbooks with clasps verge on being a container, but good point.
All of the adventuring Wizards that I seen have always kept their spellbooks in at least a bag or pouch to keep the rain and dirt off of them.
The Wizards that I have met that aren't adventuring don't. They instead keep their spellbooks inside something that resembles a miniature fortress.
I forgot to mention that a PC can be a container. Example the Gourd Leshy. Scrolls can easily be in a scroll case or an envelope. There are munitions that are containers Blindpepper Bolt
So being a container is a limitation but not one that is going to be too difficult to work with.
Hmm... Any creature that can swallow things could also be considered a container. Would stabbing a creature with a sword or spear then be considered opening the container?
Scrolls can easily be in a scroll case or an envelope.
Yes, but it opens up friendly fire. Your allies may want to look through your stuff to save you if you are down (in case you have a potion or a scroll of healing in there).
In my opinion, the main use is to protect an area or a static item.
I like to use Glyphes of Warding as nasty alarms. Inside dungeons, I can drop a pouch of coins on the ground and casts a Glyph on it. I know that any intelligent creature passing by will trigger the Glyph, raising the alarm while taking damage at the same time.
If I cast glyph of warding, and then level up, does that casting's DC increase?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If I cast glyph of warding, and then level up, does that casting's DC increase?
I would say no. The spell's effects are fixed when it is cast into the Glyph. And Glyph itself doesn't have any DC.
Is it really that burdensome to re-cast the Glyph and the spell inside it at some point between level 1 and level 20?
Is it really that burdensome to re-cast the Glyph and the spell inside it at some point between level 1 and level 20?
It is if it's half a world away, say, when you ship something to a hated enemy. >:D
Is it really that burdensome to re-cast the Glyph and the spell inside it at some point between level 1 and level 20?It is if it's half a world away, say, when you ship something to a hated enemy. >:D
Wouldn't some other non-hated-enemy mail carrier creature have to move the Glyphed container in that case?
I wonder how intricate you can structure the trigger/passphrase for the glyph for usage in the mail.
Can you say "the spell is triggered unless the person is carrying one of these specially inscribed pebbles". Then you just give one of the pebbles to the person making the delivery, and when they walk away after leaving the package on the porch the deliveryperson takes the pebble with them.
I'd thought containers had to be opened to activate, though yeah, it looks like PF2's version is fiercer. That said, you could still place a container within the container though that heads into wonky-ville since one would still be moving the inner container and don't want people to use that trick to bypass other glyphs. Yet that's also true of boats, horses, etc. that the PC might ride on also moving the glyph. Oof.
I think a more narrative approach might suit this spell best.
I wonder how intricate you can structure the trigger/passphrase for the glyph for usage in the mail.
Can you say "the spell is triggered unless the person is carrying one of these specially inscribed pebbles". Then you just give one of the pebbles to the person making the delivery, and when they walk away after leaving the package on the porch the deliveryperson takes the pebble with them.
It would probably follow the rules for setting spell triggers. I didn't check that previously. So if the mail carriers all wear a standard uniform, then you could probably have it trigger on anyone moving or opening the package that is not wearing that uniform.
But that is going to have to have some GM buy-in to the process in order to work correctly. But even so, it still runs a high risk of targeting bystanders or other non-uniformed mail workers.
2) that all the triggers on an object touch, move, open are active. You can't choose to have it trigger on one of these but not another.
Did Logan state his reasoning for this interpretation?
I'm seeing a lot of "or" in that part of the spell.
Did Logan state his reasoning for this interpretation?
The video is, like, 4 minutes long. And 3 minutes of that is the standard Youtube shilling.
But if I remember right, it was just the idea that the spell is meant to ward or protect something, not to be used offensively. That was the feeling that I got from it.
Nominitive determinism is not the be all and end all, but expect a GM to be less permissive when it comes to something like "using an item called 'boots of dancing' for something that is not dancing".
I expect them to publish a spell that is like the Glyph of Warding in that it's a trap, but is designed to be used offensively, and so has limits that the Glyph of Warding does not (which has unlimited duration and you can maintain a large number of them.)
The attempt to finagle glyph of warding to let you cast additional fireballs without using today's spell slots is something that probably won't go far.
Nominitive determinism is not the be all and end all, but expect a GM to be less permissive when it comes to something like "using an item called 'boots of dancing' for something that is not dancing".
I expect them to publish a spell that is like the Glyph of Warding in that it's a trap, but is designed to be used offensively, and so has limits that the Glyph of Warding does not (which has unlimited duration and you can maintain a large number of them.)
The attempt to finagle glyph of warding to let you cast additional fireballs without using today's spell slots is something that probably won't go far.
Depends what you mean.
Being able to make a deception roll and tricking an opponent to pick up a trapped item is a fair and reasonable option that I guess most people want in the game.
Deliberately tossing a container, then getting an ally to trigger your own glyphs, means you really need to organise resistance or immunity for your party. That is much harder and requires actions to set up and actions to implement. I mean I'm happy for players to do that, but I guess opinions are going to be divided on whether that is reasonable.
Throwing glyphs as grenades clearly doesn't work. As Logan has made clear.
I've got my own interpretations to make it clear for my group that putting runes on a sack/envelope on a shield is just not going to work. Plus that stacking up effects is not on. I hope that most people see those as fair interpretations. But some won't.
So it really depends where your opinion on reasonable and balance lies. A poor choice could majorly distort game tactics, or remove glyphs from the game.
Is it any more effective than having a couple of extra scrolls at your caster level minus 1? I don't think it is. I mean that is still pretty good, but lets not get too carried away.
If Glyphs become a central focus of party tactics, that seems like a good indicator one's interpretation is too powerful/too lenient.
If Glyphs become a central focus of party tactics, that seems like a good indicator one's interpretation is too powerful/too lenient.That's my interpretation too, but same can be said about different spells, like longstrider, wall of stone, and similar spells now used as they were gimmicks.
I don't think that it does become a central focus. Its never going to be a top level spell slot. It does require some setup and cordination. It won't suit every situation. Not every enemy is going to be susceptable to a bribe, nor will they want the same thing. Its always going to be a possibility though.
Luckily, the spell doesn't have a heightened version.
You can always heighten spells. So this is just not true.
Luckily, the spell doesn't have a heightened version.
All spells can be Heightened. What it doesn't have is a special effect on heightening. But if you cast it as a 5th level spell you can use it with 4th level spells.