As a melee fighter, what are the ideal contents of your "golf bag?"

[DRD1812]

Folks like to talk about the "batman wizard" who has a contingency scroll for ever situation. What about melee dudes though? Getting disarmed sucks, and so does getting neutered due to DR.

So supposing that you're a well-prepared fighter: What do you put in the old golf bag of holding? And since wealth-by-level is always a concern, what's the most economical way to cover all your bases? When you’re building up your arsenal, what tools do you positively, absolutely have to have in your toolbox? What threats are too esoteric to warrant prepping for? And perhaps most telling: what is your current melee dude carrying?

Comic for illustrative purposes.

[Greylurker]

Advanced Weapon Training - Warrior's Spirit

Only a few times per day and only lasts a minute but it has saved me from some fights that would have been bad news without it.

Quote:

The fighter can forge a spiritual bond with a weapon that belongs to the associated weapon group, allowing him to unlock the weapon’s potential. Each day, he designates one such weapon and gains a number of points of spiritual energy equal to 1 + his weapon training bonus. While wielding this weapon, he can spend 1 point of spiritual energy to grant the weapon an enhancement bonus equal to his weapon training bonus. Enhancement bonuses gained by this advanced weapon training option stack with those of the weapon, to a maximum of +5.

The fighter can also imbue the weapon with any one weapon special ability with an equivalent enhancement bonus less than or equal to his maximum bonus by reducing the granted enhancement bonus by the amount of the equivalent enhancement bonus. The item must have an enhancement bonus of at least +1 (from the item itself or from warrior spirit) to gain a weapon special ability. In either case, these bonuses last for 1 minute.

Lets me deal with DR, or pick up Ghost Touch when I need it or sometimes just plain add Bane for some extra kick.

and lately I have been enjoying Boots of Lightning Leaping. Gets me to that Evil Wizard hiding in the backrow in a Flash.

[Mark Hoover 330]

the contents of the Efficient Quiver of the paladin in my megadungeon game, as well as what he carries on his person:

+1 Fauchard (has an embedded Ioun Stone granting proficiency to the wielder)

MW Comp Longbow (Str +2); x20 Cold Iron arrows

MW Sling; x10 Cold Iron sling bullets

a net

x2 hand axes

a silvered dagger

MW Cold Iron Lucerne Hammer

x4 MW Chakrams

+1 Warhammer

+1 Dancing Quickdraw Light Steel Shield

MW Qickdraw Light Steel Shield

This PC was built with Quickdraw as his first level feat; he was never designed for DPR but rather to have the right tool for the job. One of the first contacts the party ever made was an NPC Alchemist 1/Witch 2 who the PC has a great fondness for.

The Alchemist/Witch has become the paladin's "Lucius" from the Batman films; the NPC supplies the paladin with weapon blanches, tanglefoot bags, acid flasks and other alchemical devices. There's also lots of helpful potions the NPC can make, especially when she spends a day working with the paladin or the party's wizard to supply the spells for said potions.

Ironically, the bulk of the paladin's DPR now, at level 7, comes from the Gore attack or Trample of his divine bonded mount, a War Bull he got my permission to take. The bull hits like a truck, but rarely overcomes DR. The paladin on the other hand ignores most DR, all when smiting, but deals little damage (unless Smite Evil is running).

So far I don't know which is more optimal but the player is having fun so who cares right?

[Diego Rossi]

Few monsters and NPCs use sunder of disarm, a few more damage the weapons, but, as soon as the weapons become magical and increase hardness and hit points that becomes a limited problem.

DR is a problem that players prefer to overcome with more damage and better magic weapons instead of bringing several different weapons in which they are less proficient or spending money on several weapons of similar power.

So the golf bag is limited to:
- a passable ranged weapon if you are a melee combatant or a passable melee weapon if you normally use range weapons (generally limited to a +1 weapon even when they become high-level characters);
- if they use 2 handed weapons or ranged weapons, a small melee weapon that they could use when grappled or swallowed whole.

[Temperans]

As stated by other Warrior Spirit helps a lot. I personally enjoy the Sharding enchantment to make melee weapons into ranged.

Also some thing I have though about doing is using the Training enchantment on a gauntlet to get the Weapon Versatility feat. Effectively that let's you change your main weapon's damage type at the low cost of 8k for a bonus feat. Cheaper than enchanting a bunch of weapons, that's for sure.

I also like having various lesser magic items. For a Fighter and oil of Magic weapon or Greater Magic Weapon can effectively make their damage potential much greater against a boss. Belt of the Weasel helps when falling prone. Burdenless armor to not worry about weight. Etc.

[Greylurker]

Oil of Bless Weapon is a pretty handy one

[DeathlessOne]

I never leave home without at least one spiked gauntlet (unless I have monk punches). That way, I always have something to attack with even in a grapple.

Otherwise, its just a matter of having weapons that deal the type of damage you need. A weapon of sufficient magic enchantment deals with most material based damage reduction, so focus more on the alignment based ones. Towards that end, a few consumables that serve that purpose is more than enough.

Basically its:
1x Your main melee weapon
1x your backup melee weapon
1x you got disarmed/in-a-grapple 'weapon'
1x your main ranged weapon
2x+ backup throwing weapon

[Dragonchess Player]

- A ranged weapon. Probably a composite longbow (eventually adaptive distance and possibly holy), plus cold iron (normal and blunt) arrows treated with weapon blanch (silver) and eventually a handful of durable adamantine arrows (normal and blunt); also a few magical arrows for specialized use (bane, flaming or frost, holy {single arrows are affordable much earlier than holy on the bow itself}, etc.) when affordable.
- A primary melee weapon; whatever suits the character. Eventually adamantine and usually holy; other special abilities as appropriate to the character.
- An alchemical silver battle aspergillum. Can penetrate DR/blunt and DR/silver, plus can be filled with holy water to damage incorporeal undead and shadow demons.
- A cold iron dagger. Can penetrate DR/cold iron, DR/piercing, and DR/slashing, plus can be used as a tool.

[Mightypion]

If Elephant in the room is a thing:

1: Reach weapon
2: 1 2 handed weapon
3: 1 shield and 1 handed weapon
4: 1 Light weapon unless I have claws or something
5: Something ranged.

With EITR, all of these can be axes and benefit from a single weapon focus.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Main weapon of choice
+1 adaptive composite (+0) longbow
20-60 cold iron arrows with alchemical silver weapon blanch applied
sling, quarterstaff, and/or club at low levels
morningstar
adamantine heavy pick
daggers and/or handaxes to double as tools

[DRD1812]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Main weapon of choice

+1 adaptive composite (+0) longbow
20-60 cold iron arrows with alchemical silver weapon blanch applied
sling, quarterstaff, and/or club at low levels
morningstar
adamantine heavy pick
daggers and/or handaxes to double as tools

I was wondering if I'd see weapon blanch in here. They always struck me as taking too much time to apply in the midst of combat, but I quite like the ammunition trick. Way smarter than buying actual adamantine arrows.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Weapon Blanch works really well also in a dungeon situation if you have:

1. a rogue scouting ahead with the Message spell running
2. a wizard making their Monster Lore checks pretty consistently

The paladin in my above entry uses Silver Weapon Blanch when needed if a monster is spotted ahead and ID'd by the wizard.

[Diego Rossi]

Weapon Blanch works very well with ammunitions. 10 uses for a single dose, against 1 hit with a melee weapon.

A sling is a very nice backup ranged weapon, but the ammunitions are heavy. The advantage is that you add your strength bonus to the damage without the need for a special weapon.
If the GM allows using stones (at reduced damage) instead of lead bullets, like in older versions of the game, a sling becomes a nice thing for your survival package too.

[Heather 540]

Main melee weapon.

Backup melee weapon that has a different damage type - this is usually a kunai or dagger. It's also usually cold iron or alchemical silver.

Backup ranged weapon with a couple different types of arrows - usually regular and blunt. Maybe some cold iron of both.

[PCScipio]

Past 1st lvl, I always buy cold iron ammunition instead of regular.

[Kaouse]

I generally just use a One-handed weapon and take Warrior Spirit. One handed weapons can be wielded with 2 hands for extra damage, but can also still be used in a grapple. Warrior Spirit gives you access to floating feats with the Training enchantment, or the ability to bypass most material DR with Bane. IIRC, there's also the Iron Caster thing you can do where you flex into Item Mastery Feats for psuedo-SLAs on demand.

[Dragonchess Player]

DRD1812 wrote:

I was wondering if I'd see weapon blanch in here. They always struck me as taking too much time to apply in the midst of combat, but I quite like the ammunition trick. Way smarter than buying actual adamantine arrows.

You don't apply weapon blanch in combat. You treat the ammunition with weapon blanch at the start of the day or even before you go adventuring, since "[t]he blanching remains effective until you make a successful attack with the weapon." Cold iron ammunition treated with weapon blanch (silver) penetrates both DR/cold iron and DR/silver for a single attack (which is often the most you need with each piece of ammunition).

Durable adamantine arrows (61 gp each) may be a bit expensive for the first couple levels, but can be reused. Weapon blanch (adamantine) costs 100 gp (10 gp per piece of ammunition) and works out as more expensive after 6 fights, because you have to apply it over and over again.

[Temperans]

Durable Arrows are indeed a matter of high investment for less overall payment. But it also depends on the campaign.

Durable arrows in a campaign with aquatic and lava fights is pretty much just throwing away gold (if you don't have things like conserving).

[Mark Hoover 330]

For those of you worried about your expensive alchemical stuff or ammo depleting, Abundant Ammunition and Full Pouch. Put these on scrolls or in wands, if you can use those, or they can even be made into oils and applied to a single object or container, to cut down on costs (if you can do some cheap crafting that is). Or, y'know, cast the spells.

[Kurald Galain]

At low level, cold iron slashing primary weapon; and silver blugeoning secondary weapon (that is small enough to be used in a grapple); and a few flasks of alchemist fire or acid or holy water; and oil of Bless Weapon to deal with incorporeals.

And some thrown weapon, usually a chakram; or if the character can use it, a wand of magic missile. If your character is not specced for range (and doesn't need UMD for it) the wand is likely a better ranged option.

At mid level, a regular +1 primary weapon and try to get to +3 as quickly as possible (e.g. furious weapon, scabbard of vigor, magus arcane pool) because that breaks cold iron and silver. I don't enchant the cold iron primary (because of how expensive it is) but keep it around as a fallback option.

I usually deal with adamantine or hardness (or elementals with DR) by the old expedient of "hitting them really hard". It's not ideal but I find adamantine weapons are too expensive for how rarely you need them.

[Coidzor]

PCScipio wrote:

Past 1st lvl, I always buy cold iron ammunition instead of regular.

There's no reason to buy regular arrows even at first level if stone is an option, since stone arrows do as much damage as regular arrows and are only 25 copper per 20. Fairly minimal investment allows one to make a bundle of 20 stone arrows in an hour or less just by making the DC 12 check, which pushes the cost down to a mere 8 copper. This even stays relevant for longer if Stone Discus is available, since it creates stone that bypasses certain DRs.

[DRD1812]

Coidzor wrote:

PCScipio wrote:

Past 1st lvl, I always buy cold iron ammunition instead of regular.

There's no reason to buy regular arrows even at first level if stone is an option, since stone arrows do as much damage as regular arrows and are only 25 copper per 20.

Well sure. But then the other rangers make fun of you for not having designer arrows.

[TxSam88]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Few monsters and NPCs use sunder of disarm, a few more damage the weapons, but, as soon as the weapons become magical and increase hardness and hit points that becomes a limited problem.

DR is a problem that players prefer to overcome with more damage and better magic weapons instead of bringing several different weapons in which they are less proficient or spending money on several weapons of similar power.

So the golf bag is limited to:
- a passable ranged weapon if you are a melee combatant or a passable melee weapon if you normally use range weapons (generally limited to a +1 weapon even when they become high-level characters);
- if they use 2 handed weapons or ranged weapons, a small melee weapon that they could use when grappled or swallowed whole.

I agree with this 100%, after a certain point, the bonuses you get with your preferred weapon far outweigh what you loose when you switch to something just to over come damage reduction. you are normally better off just sticking with your preferred weapon and living with the damage reduction (there also plenty of feats which negate or reduce DR)

So yeah, my fighter typically has:
Main weapon - either melee or ranged
Backup weapon of the opposing type.
Maybe a one handed weapon, for when he's grappled.

And that's pretty much it.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Just popping back in here to say that the whole golf bag debate is about the only reason I can think of to play a halfling with a halfling slingstff. Your base weapon damage will never be huge, you're using a club with a sling on it, so the melee part is ALL Str related and the sling's damage is Str related, but your racial penalty is -2 Str. Your the EASIEST route to loading the sling as a Free action is trading away the Sure Footed racial trait and still having to take a Style feat.

However, this weapon is both ranged and melee; any Enhancement bonus to the weapon affects both its types; the ammo is cheap enough that getting them in different materials to overcome DR is cost effective. The one clear benefit to a Halfling Slingstaff is that it saves space and resources.

On a related note, I'm still bitter about the interaction between this weapon, the race related to it, and the fact that it misses out on several "bow only" ranged feats. That's a rant for another thread though...

[DeathlessOne]

I made a Fighter (Viking)/Barbarian Halfling that used the halfling sling staff as his go-to weapon outside of rage. He was also equipped with a spiked gauntlet, buckler and an earthbreaker. I did not specialize in the use of said weapon, but it was used often and to great effect. This character made use of two-weapon fighting and vital strike on just about equal measure. That was back when I was designing small characters to simply thumb my nose at the idea they couldn't be strength based melee monsters.

Fun times.

[Mark Hoover 330]

DeathlessOne wrote:

I made a Fighter (Viking)/Barbarian Halfling that used the halfling sling staff as his go-to weapon outside of rage. He was also equipped with a spiked gauntlet, buckler and an earthbreaker. I did not specialize in the use of said weapon, but it was used often and to great effect. This character made use of two-weapon fighting and vital strike on just about equal measure. That was back when I was designing small characters to simply thumb my nose at the idea they couldn't be strength based melee monsters.

Fun times.

Wait, so... two weapon fighting, so had to have had at least a 13 Dex, but then also wielded an earthbreaker as a barabarian so I'm guessing decent Str, but that'd mean you'd have to pay 2 points MORE than the base Str you wanted to start with... how did you build this character, I'm bewildered.

Back to the thread tho, I've got to end up agreeing with most posters. If you're a build type that relies on weapon damage to end combat encounters, you need a primary and secondary weapon, based on the type of combat you're built to specialize in. So, a primary melee and backup ranged, or vice versa. Everything else is pretty much nuance or a character affectation.

[DeathlessOne]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Wait, so... two weapon fighting, so had to have had at least a 13 Dex, but then also wielded an earthbreaker as a barabarian so I'm guessing decent Str, but that'd mean you'd have to pay 2 points MORE than the base Str you wanted to start with... how did you build this character, I'm bewildered.

With 20 point buy and acknowledgement that having a 16 or higher strength at level 1 was not necessary to be good at combat. I had plenty of attack bonuses to hit and strength in a rage, that I could handle whatever I needed to.

Seriously, getting that 17-18 Strength at 1st level is a fool's game. You shoe-horn yourself into one very specific role and fall over yourself anytime you step out of it.