If a character makes multiple attacks in a round of a type that provokes attacks of opportunity (eg a full attack with a ranged weapon, or an alchemist with Fast Bombs) and they are threatened by a foe with Combat Reflexes, does the foe get to make an AoO for each of the character's attacks, or only one AoO (for the full-round action)?
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If a character makes multiple attacks in a round of a type that provokes attacks of opportunity (eg a full attack with a ranged weapon, or an alchemist with Fast Bombs) and they are threatened by a foe with Combat Reflexes, does the foe get to make an AoO for each of the character's attacks, or only one AoO (for the full-round action)?
Absolutely. You can provoke multiple times.
While you can provoke an AoO multiple times in a round you cannot provoke more than once per action. Full Attack is a full round action so only provokes once no matter how many times you attack. If the character does other things that provoke AoO while using a full attack those action do provoke another AoO.
While you can provoke an AoO multiple times in a round you cannot provoke more than once per action. Full Attack is a full round action so only provokes once no matter how many times you attack. If the character does other things that provoke AoO while using a full attack those action do provoke another AoO.
I don't think that's correct.
If you cast a ranged attack spell you provoke twice - once for casting and once for making a ranged attack. This is a pretty clear case of 1 action provoking 2 AoOs.
If my Magus made a full-round Spell-Combat attack that included casting a spell, making a ranged attack, performing an untrained combat maneuver and using an unarmed strike these would all provoke separate AoOs.
Why would it be different if they're all ranged attacks?
While you can provoke an AoO multiple times in a round you cannot provoke more than once per action.
That's not what the rules say. What they actrually say is that you can't make "more than one attack for a given opportunity".
And while the AoO rules use the word "action" to describe what triggers the, it's the general English usage, not the game-term usage. Otherwise, a ranged full attack wouldn't provoke at all, because the "actions in combat" table says the "full attack" full-round action doesn not provoke.
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity bonus to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
The bolded parts show that you only get one AoO per opportunity. If moving out of more than one square is considered the same opportunity, making more than one attack should also be considered the same opportunity.
and yet there is the faq about casting a ranged attack spell that provoke twice.
you provoke when you lower your guard down. the moving out of threated area is one thing all along the area you move. so you don't provoke from the same enemy for each space you leave that he threat. but casting a spell is one specific things that lower your guard. then ranging in melee is a 2nd thing. so it provoke twice, even if it used one standard action.
If moving out of more than one square is considered the same opportunity, making more than one attack should also be considered the same opportunity.
Faulty logic. That they needed to spell out that moving out of two threatened squares does not provoke twice shows that there is no general rule like that, and that since there is no similar text for ranged full attacks, they don't have an exception like that.
When you make a Ranged Touch Attack for a Spell, you provoke two attacks of opportunity for that same action because Casting a Spell and Making a Ranged Attack are considered two separate "provoking events" in that 1 action.
If you make a Full Attack with a Ranged weapon, you would provoke an AoO for every single attack you make during that full attack, as each attack is its own separate "provoking event". The exception to this would be Manyshot; even though you're making two attacks, its only 1 triggering event because you're shooting 2 arrows with that 1 ranged attack.
So let's say you have 1 Manyshot, 1 rapid shot, plus 2 more attacks from BAB, for a total of 4 attacks (with 5 attack rolls due to Manyshot), you would provoke a total of 4 AoO's.
Another way to think about this is for a martial character substituting a Trip attack in place of a melee attack during a full attack. Let's say that the Martial has 4 attacks due to BAB, and decides to substitute all 4 of these attacks as Trip attempts, and he does not possess the Improved Trip feat. He would provoke 1 AoO for each of the 4 Trip attempts, for a total of 4 AoO's.
If a ranged attacker is making three shots with their bow, that's three of the SAME provocation: making a ranged attack.
In order for this differentiation between same and different triggers during a turn to be relevant, there need to be a rule that says that doing the same trigger multiple times in a turn only provokes once. Can you quote such a rule?
From the FAQ we know with absolute certainty that a singular action can result in provoking more than one AoO. So which rule prevents two ranged attacks from each provoking? All I've heared is an unfounded over-generalization from the special rule for movement.
i can not stress this enough, but let me be clear:
you can not bunch all the attacks of a full round action into one 'thing' and have them provoke only once. this is not the same as making a move action which is one thing. you decide to move from x to y more then a 5 ft step so you lower your guard and are open to aoo. but it is one instant of lowering your guard.
in a full round action of attacking more then once you simply can not group all the attacks into one instant an the reason is this - the rules of full round action state that after the 1st attack is made, the player can decide whether to stop and use his move action for something else or continue and finish up his full round of attacks (this is from the combat rules section in the core book).
now in the case of movement out of more then one threatened area. the rules state that the one making the aoo can decide where and when to take his aoo (for example he can wait till the movement is also in line for a flank in case the moving enemy is crossing between him and his ally) this show that once the movement is declared it must be followed through if possible. you can't move, see how it's going, then keep on moving.
on the other hand from the fact you can stop after the 1st attack in a full round action and say 'no i want to jump now' show that the attacks are not a one uninterrupted provocation rather a set of similar ones each with it's own accord.
if this was the same then the one making the aoo would have been able to say: 'no, don't stop, continue the full attack i want to aoo you after the 2nd before the 3rd shot'. (maybe he has an ability that call for an attack to be deflected and he rather target a lower bab one.who knows?)
and the fact a spell with more then one ranged attack in it provoke only once is no proof for full attack. you can see the same difference in the case of sneak attacks:
with one spell that has more then one ranged attack only one attack would net a sneak even if all are made at a flat footed target, but when you full attack a flat footed target every attack roll sneak attack. that's because full attack is a combination of attacks that each is counted for and separated by itself!
The example in the FAQ is the parallel event. A caster using Scorching Ray with multiple rays (which count as ranged weapons). Casting the spell provokes. Does launching each ray also provoke? The FAQ answer's that = NO, the multiple ranged attack only provokes once.You mean the FAQ that says:
Note that a spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell....
thank you! i missed that.
i think that is even a bigger support to my argument.
in case the ranged attacks are simultaneous
-which full attack sure isn't. as your allowed to stop after the first as well as see the result of each attack and if, for example, the 3nd shot kill the target you can then switch to a different one. also each can sneak attack by itself (which the 2n Faq doesn't allow in cases of simultaneous attacks)
then:
"only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack"
- so in non-simultaneous multiple ranged attacks you DO provoke for each ranged attack!
i don't think it can be clearer then that.
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FAQ on Ranged Touch Attack Spells & AoO
Actions in CombatThe example in the FAQ is the parallel event. A caster using Scorching Ray with multiple rays (which count as ranged weapons). Casting the spell provokes. Does launching each ray also provoke? The FAQ answer's that = NO, the multiple ranged attack only provokes once.
I think the analogy is clear, making several ranged attacks on (the same or different) target(s) within an attack action provokes an AoO once, not with each incident. Whether it's a standard or full action doesn't make much difference. Of course individual Feat/Style/Ability text may impact that.
So the obvious question is do any of the Feat/Style/Ability descriptions affect provocation of AoO (in a negative/penalty way)?I don't know many casters or archers that shoot standing adjacent to a foe, so this should be a rare event. Wizards tend to use Illusion of Calm, Blink, Blur, Longarm, Spectral Hand, etc to avoid the hazards of combat.
You are missing the part where it says "simultaneous":
Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.
That is a special case, as the attacks are simultaneous. Firing arrows or throwing bombs aren't simultaneous attacks, they are iterative attacks. Each iterative attack is a separate event that is resolved before you move to the next iterative attack. As they are separate events each provokes.
It works the same way for natural attacks when you make a full attack. Each attack is a separated event and they are resolved in sequence, eventual AoO included.@zza ni: to your explanation, you can add that you can see the result of your attack and, if you want, target a different creature after each attack of a full attack and that you can even take a 5' step between the attacks of a full attack.
I will point out though, that in the example of a touch spell followed by attack provoking twice, folks are overlooking that the attack actually is a separate action.
No, it's not. You're thinking of melee touch attacks, which are indeed done as a seperate action, but ranged touch attacks are done as part of casting the spell.
I think the analogy is clear
Stop. This is why you're wrong, and why Mysterious Stranger and Mark Hoover 330 are wrong: Your argument is not based on rules, but based on an extrapolation of the rules. You're thinking "oh, this <rule option> is said to behave in a certain way, so others that are somewhat similar must also behave in that way", ignoring the possibility that the rule option in question was an exception to the general rule.
Movement not provoking twice from the same enemy is an exception to the general rule, that's why it's spelled out. Simultaneous ranged attacks only provoking once is an exception to the general rule, that's why that FAQ talks about it. If something isn't spelled out, like multiple ranged attack in a full-attack action, then it does not have an exception, and thus follows the general rules - which is each event provoking independently.
Magic Missile didn't show up in that search but has instantaneous duration.
Magic Missile doesn't need that language, because it doesn't make a ranged attack (no attack roll), and thus doesn't provoke for making one anyway.
In further support of each ranged attack triggers an AoO, there is also the FAQ on greater trip and vicious stomp.
In this scenario 1 action (you trip an opponent) triggers two AoOs, because the "event" that triggers an AoO isn't tied specifically to a game action, but rather an "action" (not game defined usage of the word action). Being forced prone isn't even an action taken in game terms.
Note this FAQ also doesn't call this out as an exception, but rather explains why you get two AoOs. eg, they are saying, the normal/default/general rules for AoOs apply.
...because the two AOO-triggering acts are similar, but different.
A successful trip, and falling prone are two different action/event/triggers, even though they both occur during the same game action (a trip attack). Which of course is very consistant with the already quoted FAQ regarding casting a ranged attack spell.