You understand that wages are just one thing that Unions typically work towards right? Unfair hiring and firing practices is another. Safe working conditions is yet another. UPW doesn't want Paizo to fail, they're not going to demand unreasonable wage increases, but they will get to take a look at the books and see what is actually a reasonable increase to ask for, especially since so many of the staff are living below what is considered a liveable wage in the area.Paizo is a pretty small company. Not sure what a union would do at Paizo. Are they even a high enough margin business to allow for a union putting upward pressure on wages and making labor costs less flexible? It seems like unionizing Paizo would push them to outsource more work to avoid the union issues.
The RPG publishing business from what I understand is a very low margin business. It requires very flexible use of labor due to the up and down nature of their products. Seems like it would make them less competitive as a business and damage their ability to operate against non-union competitors.
Or is Wizards of the Coast union too?
I've been in two unions. I'm well aware they provide other benefits if they are a well-funded union with sufficient size and strength to do so.
Union bargaining power is very dependent on size, amount of union dues generated, and more than people on here seem to think.
Not sure many on here have really delved too deeply into what it takes to set up and run a union.
Union dues are roughly 2 to 3 percent of gross pay. The union will collect them and use them to support union operations including representatives of the union who are paid to bargain, usually including attorneys and accountants and other administrative representatives.
How much will a 2 to 3% of employees at a small company like Paizo represent? You really have to wonder.
This is a union just for people who work at Paizo? I haven't heard of any such unions, though I imagine they exist.
I was in the Teamsters and SEIU. Both are powerful, well known unions that unionized by profession with much larger corporations. SEIU covers an enormous number of employees as does the Teamsters.
Their ability to collectively bargain is based on the wages and capabilities of their workforce.
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Not sure what union would represent game designers? Does one exist? How would this work?
The “we work for Paizo” Union.
Step 1, employees band together and unionize.
Step 2, see step 1.
Just contextualizing her post. Also, you might want to do some reading. They aren't flying solo. Besides, every industry has to start somewhere.
Last week, Paizo employees announced they had formed a union with the Communication Workers of America—the first of its kind for the TTRPG industry.
CWA union. That union is fairly powerful. Interesting. Could help unionize the gaming industry if they can get one company. Not sure how many gaming development companies are union.
Be interesting to watch how this plays out.
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They'll be the first TTRPG company to unionize, as has been discussed previously.
And not every local has or needs paid staff all the time. My union's negotiations committee is made up of volunteers. We're also not on our own, as we're just a local affiliate of a national union (much like UPW is part of the CWA).
You're speaking very confidently about a topic you don't seem well-informed on, which is kinda weird.
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Yeah, what that article goes over is just how much extra work Paizo staff often do just for the privilege of being in the industry. My (entirely uninformed) feeling is that if they're able to improve conditions at all, they won't want for volunteers.
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I am tabletop and TRPG veteran for 14 years. And I can say, that Paizo is the best company for customers. Free rules, regular not overpriced books and other supplements. Very good setting. And now i hope, they will be the first famous TRPG company with the union. And, maybe, it will make them greater.
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From what I have heard I have far more of a issue with how the freelancers are dealing with this situation than the paizo staff.What’s your issue with it?
The work stoppage they’ve done is one of the most admirable things I’ve seen in years.
There are a lot of people on this thread (most I would suggest) who are saying that they don’t want paizo to fail. This just seems like it could increase the risk of that. Or at least significantly struggling
Or delays in products have a knock on effect of having to cut costs.
For example if the freelancers refuse to complete work and therefore it needs to be restarted and all the original cost lost and new people found or existing staff asked to do it (more pressure, worse working conditions etc)
It’s admirable but if it forces scaling back then it may not have the desired effect.
That said I don’t know how significant a delay the current stoppage would cause and how long it will go on for. If it caps at two months (giving time for all the legal parts of union recognition to be sorted) then it can be managed especially with worldwide delays being a thing. Much longer though could be a problem (but I don’t see how that can happen)
And of course it is breach of contract. I thought it was a situation where the freelancers had refused to take any NEW assignments. Not that they were refusing to complete the existing ones. This is a very different thing. There is obviously a risk that many of these freelancers are never given another paizo assignment (if there are even any to give out which I assume there will be). Which is where it being admirable comes in
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The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
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The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
No way they just came up with that reactively.
I’d bet it’s been in the works for a good year or more.|
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The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I think it serves a few purposes.
1) It's easy money.
They get 10-25% of sales. For doing nothing. Easy money is good.
2) It replaces RPG Superstar as a way to test freelancers.
They don't need to pay anyone to go through the submission slush pile or manage a contest. They can look for the best new talent making good content, to replace all the Name people who have been poached by 3PP and WotC. (Or didn't convert.)
3) It fills the content gaps.
The more classes they release, the more new options that need to be accommodated in new thematic sourcebooks. But new builds are a space hog compared to 1e archetypes, so space is limited. Dark Archive might not be able to have options for all twenty existing classes. And the book after that won't be able to accommodate all twenty-two classes.
They can just leave it to the fans and Pathfinder Infinites to do, oh, let's say a Magus Dark Archive style hybrid study or swashbuckler style.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
Any news on that front?
It's been a week. It only took Jeff Alvarez two days to respond to the twitter allegations. Even if they can't make an official statement on the site, have they said anything on the socials or elsewhere on the forums?
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It's been a week. It only took Jeff Alvarez two days to respond to the twitter allegations. Even if they can't make an official statement on the site, have they said anything on the socials or elsewhere on the forums?
There has not. Paizo Workers is typically timely with any updates.
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It's kind of interesting that the debate has essentially morphed from "did Paizo do something wrong?" to "sure, we all support the union, but why do we support the union?"
I'm not saying it's good or bad to argue about that stuff. I'm just happy to see the community almost entirely unified around supporting the employees of Paizo, aside from a few odd apples.
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The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
That's...
Huh.
Okay. I don't like thinking that way either. I don't think Paizo command staff had a crystal ball, though.
Yes, what thejeff said.
I could see them expediting it for this, potentially, even if it was already planned. But it is pretty cynical.
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The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
Not sure of Paizo's exact motive for creating "infinite" but I'm very happy they did. The only way to be 100% inclusive for a company is to hire everyone that wants to work for them "infinite" kind of dose that. It also creates more opportunities for more diverse content. I wonder what Paizos freelancers think of "infinite" does it create more opportunity for them without the pressure of deadlines. Also wonder what the UPW thinks of it.
I believe she is referring to Alastar's post--she means she spoilered the "off-topic" content but didn't delete the post because it had union-related content as well.
I disagree that talking about the controversies is off-topic, considering how deeply linked these two threads are, but that's beside the point.
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That is an interesting response given that the majority of forum threads regularly vacillate between on/off topic subject matter* and in a thread that is specifically about the union efforts and any attempt to manipulate that conversation could be viewed as union-busting by the company. I am fairly sure that Paizo wold rather not promote union efforts, especially in their own forum, but given the enormous public response, it would make matters worse if they were to start stifling now, especially since they have been on mute since the union went public.
*companies are very susceptible to the common practices philosophy that can cause their own rules and procedures to be forcibly rejected by outside entities.
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Contributor
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There are a lot of people on this thread (most I would suggest) who are saying (...)
A lot of your statements are built on assumptions that aren't true. As an example: as a freelancer, I've NEVER been paid in advance before turning over work, in TTRPGs or any other form of writing. So Paizo hasn't "lost" any costs if they decided to start everything from scratch.
Similarly, the existence of a union doesn't increase the risk of Paizo failing, AT ALL. Even with a union, Paizo leadership can still drive off a cliff. They just can't do it as easily on the backs of the creative and front-line staff.
If Paizo can only "succeed" by overworking their employees or engaging in other behaviors that a union would object to, then they're not really succeeding now, are they?
EDIT: Swapped avatars since I don't like talking real stuff from behind an alias.
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While I have never been a subscriber outside of PFS scenarios I do wind up buying nearly everything digitally anyway. I run and play in multiple Pathfinder tables a week and it is my preferred RPG system. The fact that all of my tables have found it hard to continue to support the game in the last month breaks my heart. I love this game, and I want to keep supporting it so that I can see more amazing things like what we've been getting for 2E. Recognizing the union would put so many of our reservations to rest.
I support the formation of the Paizo workers' union, and would like to see management recognize them as an authorized collective bargaining unit. I believe that recognizing the union and working with them to resolve employee concerns would go a long way to restoring the good faith and respect that my friends, my players, and I have had for this company and its brand for years now. I support the creative work that Paizo has been producing and I believe that it has a unique place in the TTRPG landscape. These worlds wouldn't be what they are without the diligent creatives who work inside the company and the incredible pool of freelancers who make them. As such their voices deserve to be heard, and steps should be taken to address their concerns through the collective bargaining process.
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The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
Hey, just wanted to chime in and say "Infinite" was in the works well before the announcement at GenCon. It takes months to plan out something on that level and it was not founded in reliation to our (freelancers) actions.
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Hey, just wanted to chime in and say "Infinite" was in the works well before the announcement at GenCon. It takes months to plan out something on that level and it was not founded in reliation to our (freelancers) actions.The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
Unsurprisingly, Isis is 100% correct.
...,I fully support the Unionization of Paizo, and would love to reinstate my subscriptions if Paizo voluntarily recognizes this.
Posting links appropriate to the conversation:United Paizo Workers Blog and Merch
Unionize Paizo and make steps toward #PaizoAccountability
How do end my subscription?
Email customer.service@paizo.com and ask them to cancel your subscription.
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Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite is being developed by Paizo as cover for using picket line-crossers is my least favorite conspiracy theory of 2021.
Does anyone know if the State of Washington is strong Union State that has the support of the Legislature. It can have an impact into how much Union can do. I would think that Management as well as staff organization the Union push have looked at this.
As I have said before I would recognize the Union since this is something a large part staff want. Hopefully the Union would be able to do the things they want.
Hey, just wanted to chime in and say "Infinite" was in the works well before the announcement at GenCon. It takes months to plan out something on that level and it was not founded in reliation to our (freelancers) actions.The cynical mind now wonders if 'Infinite' was designed to do a content 'shortcut' on the cheap to compensate for freelance slowdown/stoppage.
I don't like thinking that way.
Paizo executives, please prove me wrong, recognize UPW.
Thank you for the informational update!
In a vacuum it looked very dubious!
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To Paizo Management:
I have been associated with Paizo’s games since 2011, when I first played Pathfinder Society. Since that time, I have played and GM’ed countless hours of Pathfinder Society and Starfinder Society, and I served as a Venture-Lieutenant and Venture-Captain from roughly 2014-2019, more or less.
I have a transgender son, and I have long bragged to him about how forward and progressive a company Paizo is to be so inclusive in its gaming products.
But the recent allegations published by Jessica Price concern me a great deal, and leave me disappointed in a company that I once had profound respect for.
And to that end, while I generally am not supportive of labor unions, I must ask that you recognize as soon as possible the United Paizo Workers and their attempt to form a union. There is no alternative for them if they are to truly receive the recompense and restitution they deserve. They shouldn’t need to form a union to be able to be treated in the workplace with respect and with human dignity, and yet, it sounds like many have not been. While management has had within its power the ability to make Paizo a place with a good corporate work environment, where people are respected not only for their work but for the individual human worth, it has failed to do so.
Therefore, I can only conclude that this union is the only action that will remedy the mistreatment of its employees, and your recognition of this union without delay will tell your employees, your freelancers, and your customers that you are serious about addressing these matters.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you thejeff. That is good to hear. I happen to be in state where Unions do not have allot support if any from the legislature. I am glad that is not the case in Washington. Hopefully Paizo staff will have good news soon on the Union.
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https://unitedpaizoworkers.org/2021/10/21/critical-success/
Congratulations to the newly recognized Paizo Workers union!
Just saw the news. Congrats to UPW on this huge step!
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Now a bunch of fans are going to have to put their money where their mouth is.
