Yes, "weird" is subjective, but with PF2 growing broader and broader I thought I'd point out some quirks which may or may not be desired in the final product. Neither break the the current power curve, but both seem to poke it a smidge.
-Duelist/Aldori Duelist + Implement's Empowerment. The drawback of a free hand inherent in the styles is no longer a drawback. These archetypes seem to become a bit beefier than intended, much like being able to use a greatsword or maul while parrying.
Also Duelist's Challenge stacks and Thaumaturges focus on one enemy anyway. Yes, it'll be harder to use that free hand for an Implement, but is that much of a loss if your main weapon's your primary Implement?
-Bastion + Implements. Namely Nimble Shield Hand lets you hold an Implement, while the shield boss/spikes can be your Weapon Implement (and a fine one IMO w/ Implement's Empowerment), leaving your other hand for your 3rd Implement. The imagery of one's shield hand carrying a lantern while you use your wand in the other is kind of cool, and IMO this isn't a worrisome quirk, but I also haven't seen all the upcoming Implements. Perhaps Paizo has some reason for only wanting two Implements in play at once (especially if they beef up the backups like I'm hoping!), so I thought I'd toss this in here. Or heck, maybe Paizo could add a similar ability so the regular Thaumaturgist can hold multiple w/o the awkwardness of the free action swap mechanic.
There are likely more; add them if you see any. Cheers.
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I'm not sure how the Duelist one is a weird interaction. Someone using a 1h fighting style taking feats to benefit 1h fighting styles is... normal?
if anything there's a little anti-synergy there, because Duelist still wants your hand completely free, which makes your second implement a little awkward to use.
It works with weapon implement fine, but the others are an issue yeah. I think amulet works still too?I'm not sure how the Duelist one is a weird interaction. Someone using a 1h fighting style taking feats to benefit 1h fighting styles is... normal?
if anything there's a little anti-synergy there, because Duelist still wants your hand completely free, which makes your second implement a little awkward to use.
It's weird not in that people wouldn't desire it; I certainly would if I were to build a melee Thaumaturgist. Rather that the archetype's weapon style seems to be mechanically balanced by "wasting" a free hand and trading offense for defense. Those issues don't apply to a Thaumaturgist and their damage becomes comparable to a two-handed weapon before their FF/EA damage is considered.
As mentioned, it's the Weapon Implement that works best here, but that also seems the most popular one (not personally). You can swap out the WI for an Amulet (et al) when the Amulet's needed. Assuming a Strike is "an action of the implement" re: weapons, you could switch back to it as a free action. That may ruin any Stance, so that's a drawback, unless one considers the Implement an improvised weapon perhaps?
Dubious Scholar, you have to hold the Amulet, not wear it, so it wouldn't be an empty hand. Yet one could easily hold an amulet and a lantern handle with one hand too, unless there's a mechanical nuance intended that I'm missing.
I feel if there was a problem with thaum and duelist stacking, we'd also see similar issues with magus/duelists, since they also have the ability to stack on tons of damage onto a one handed weapon and as far as I know, thise aren't really considered problematic.
Nimble shield hand seems like a weird complaint, too. The feat literally exists to allow to carry non weapon items or have a free hand. What makes it OP? You're spending an 8th level feat, and by that point, you can swap out implements as a free action
I think you can only hold one item at a time strictly speaking. though i dont have a page reference off hand.
I am actually kind of curious if a shield sconce works with the lantern choice. I feel like it might? I think lanterns work with scons in general.
I don't see lantern working with shield sconce as long as they have a "holding" requirement for the benefits. At the very least, you're losing the hot-swap ability for it, because your shield isn't an implement.
I don't see lantern working with shield sconce as long as they have a "holding" requirement for the benefits.
Shield Sconce is attached to a shield and allowing you to carry a torch: This doesn't seem different than a shield boss or spike and I don't see why you couldn't pick and use those for a weapon implement.
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I feel if there was a problem with thaum and duelist stacking, we'd also see similar issues with magus/duelists, since they also have the ability to stack on tons of damage onto a one handed weapon and as far as I know, thise aren't really considered problematic.
Nimble shield hand seems like a weird complaint, too. The feat literally exists to allow to carry non weapon items or have a free hand. What makes it OP? You're spending an 8th level feat, and by that point, you can swap out implements as a free action
Note that neither is a complaint. Like, at all, in that I'd likely build a Thaumaturge with one or the other Dedication and would think no less of a player doing so (though I might warn them of the dangers of an 8 h.p. martial in melee!). It's just that since we're in a playtest, I thought I'd point out these useful interactions just in case.
A Magus can do their business with a shield too or with a greatsword, and had to give up that defense or offense if a Duelist. A Thaumaturge (kind of) has to use their offhand for Implements instead, so got compensated with bonus damage on their weapon. This keeps their "both hands full" offense on par with a two-handed weapon user. If they don't use their offhand for Implements (perhaps because they can swap them out with their Weapon Implement as needed), then they're giving up neither defense nor offense to gain the Duelist's bonuses to both. Yet they still have that compensation.
And I don't think the Nimble Shield Hand's OP. But does Paizo? Or would Paizo if they improved the secondary & tertiary Implements (which I hope they do!)?
If not, as I've written, then perhaps all Thaumaturgists should have a way to hold three Implements (and maybe a non-Implement weapon too!). That'd be an improvement over the weird free action swapping mechanics which counterintuitively don't apply when simply drawing an item. And it'd make for smoother gameplay IMO.
Nimble Implement Hand? But only to carry more Implements, and hopefully innate and not a feat.