FallenDabus |
9 people marked this as a favorite. |
I must ask again.
What is the end goal?
Put paizo out of business.
To not spend my money on products that I won't be able to enjoy because looking at them makes me think about what the managers at the company have done to their employees.
And to get Paizo to change so that one day I can enjoy them again.
kayman |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?
Invictus Fatum |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
kayman wrote:I must ask again.
What is the end goal?
Put paizo out of business.
I don't know anyone that wants that. I would like these problems addressed openly and honestly. I would like people who are in positions of power who have worked to undermine and belittle those under them to be held accountable. I would like to see problems addressed and real change made.
Paizo has shown (at least publicly) that it is capable of making positive change.
I'd like to see evidence of these accusations beyond the rantings of a disgruntled ex-employee with a history of combative behavior (I mean I remember her tirades about ArenaNet some time back). Your looking for it to be openly addressed when Paizo management may not have done anything.
Paizo is in a lose lose situation. If they apologize and seek approval they are admitting wrongdoing before any real investigation can be done. If they call out individual managers to make amends they are not doing their current employees justice by throwing them under the bus. On the other hand if they engage directly it comes across as defensive and dismissive.
I'd like to hear from current employees (not management or the accused), or see pics of the work environment (if it was truly as bad as she claims, you can't tell me her or her employees at the time didn't snap some pics), or see emails of this intolerant culture, or something.
No company is flawless and there is likely some truth to what has been said, but I've seen nothing to suggest she doesn't have an agenda and a giant chip on her shoulder. In fact, her history seems a lot less reliable than Paizo management.
Guntermench |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?
Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
zeonsghost |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?
That's what we'd like to know. I don't think the company's response answers anything.
I think on Theosophy and occultism as it relates to Nazis, that's hard to say. He's definitely been forward about his interest in 19th and 20th century occultism. It's definitely something that can raise red flags if someone knows those connections. I think both can be acting honestly even if they have different versions of events.
I think homophobia is a tougher question. Current employees have said they've not experienced that. Former ones say they had while they worked for Paizo. Both can be true. People change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. I think the responses posted by him are a bad look. "Some of my friends are X" is never a good response to criticism because if nothing else it makes you look like the sort of person who uses their friends as human shields.
I think there's no terrible justice asking for transparency or withholding spending pending more information. Given their public presentation, its not unreasonable to ask how true that image is.
kayman |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
Cthulhusquatch |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are a lot of links between Theosophy and white nationalism.... though I stand by what I said earlier... Erik Mona doesn't smack of that type to me... a former white nationalist recruiter and Stormfront moderator.
Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
Ruzza |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
Her statements are being backed up by several other employees, past and present. It's a lot to catch up on, but this response did not come out because of something that could easily be ignored.
kayman |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are a lot of links between Theosophy and white nationalism.... though I stand by what I said earlier... Erik Mona doesn't smack of that type to me... a former white nationalist recruiter and Stormfront moderator.
kayman wrote:Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
You would be right if we were in the 1930s but in 2021 I guarantee that the Waldorf schools (using principles of Theosophy) that I know in Brazil have absolutely no relationship with Nazism.
Sporkedup |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Her statements are being backed up by several other employees, past and present. It's a lot to catch up on, but this response did not come out because of something that could easily be ignored.
All of her statements? Or just a few of them? Because I've read through everything I can find so far, and while I find twitter unnavigable generally, I'm pretty sure I've only seen sporadic backing of her claims and a few broad backings of her character.
What am I missing?
Cthulhusquatch |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are a ton of white nationalists now that study theosophy.
Cthulhusquatch wrote:There are a lot of links between Theosophy and white nationalism.... though I stand by what I said earlier... Erik Mona doesn't smack of that type to me... a former white nationalist recruiter and Stormfront moderator.
kayman wrote:Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
You would be right if we were in the 1930s but in 2021 I guarantee that the Waldorf schools (using principles of Theosophy) that I know in Brazil have absolutely no relationship with Nazism.
kayman |
There are a ton of white nationalists now that study theosophy.
kayman wrote:Cthulhusquatch wrote:There are a lot of links between Theosophy and white nationalism.... though I stand by what I said earlier... Erik Mona doesn't smack of that type to me... a former white nationalist recruiter and Stormfront moderator.
kayman wrote:Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
You would be right if we were in the 1930s but in 2021 I guarantee that the Waldorf schools (using principles of Theosophy) that I know in Brazil have absolutely no relationship with Nazism.
Erik Moma is one of then ?
Cthulhusquatch |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cthulhusquatch wrote:Erik Moma is one of then ?There are a ton of white nationalists now that study theosophy.
kayman wrote:Cthulhusquatch wrote:There are a lot of links between Theosophy and white nationalism.... though I stand by what I said earlier... Erik Mona doesn't smack of that type to me... a former white nationalist recruiter and Stormfront moderator.
kayman wrote:Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
You would be right if we were in the 1930s but in 2021 I guarantee that the Waldorf schools (using principles of Theosophy) that I know in Brazil have absolutely no relationship with Nazism.
Did you not read ALL of my post? Or just the part where I posted about links? I suggest you go up and take a look.
OmnipresentKo |
9 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm saddened to hear about the accusations; the statements from Jessica Price and Crystal Frasier both seem genuine. I've been a fan of Paizo for 10 years, own all of the hardcovers for 1st edition (I have too many adventures to run to make the jump to 2E) and Starfinder, several APs, and about 50 softcover books. Pathfinder and Paizo drew me in because they were (at least on the surface) inclusive and progressive in a way that many TTRPG companies were not.
As someone who games with LGBTQ players and GMs for them more often than not, being able to use pre-written material and still provide a safe and accepting atmosphere without having to retcon or change anything has kept me around. Crystal's work on War for the Crown is perhaps my favorite work in any RPG period. My group has loved their time in Golarion and certainly hopes to spend more time there in the future.
With all of that being said, I don't think I can in good conscience support a company that doesn't live up to the words that they put to paper. All companies have room to grow; it is clear that this is a pivotal moment for Paizo. They can do right by their customers, employees, and fans and right wrongs, celebrate diverse viewpoints, allow all employees to have a voice in the organization, and move to adequately compensate their employees. I know there's a lot more going on than the things I've mentioned and that I've hardly made any comments on the forums, but if it is substantiated that Paizo allowed for sexual harassment, transphobia, discrimination, or misconduct, I will stop supporting the company entirely.
dirtypool |
19 people marked this as a favorite. |
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
Because Mona’s refutation denies charges she didn’t actually make and jibes pretty cleanly with what she did say. She charged that he was interested in Victorian Occult and Theosophy and was somewhat clueless about the implications of its symbology and why people were offended or put off by it. His own statements almost exactly corroborate that. The charges that he, himself, is racist is a dot that was never connected in her tweets.
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
Pointing out that past associations between Naziism and Theosophy make her, a Jewish woman, uncomfortable when a painting is hung in the office is in no way evil.
kayman |
kayman wrote:Did you not read ALL of my post? Or just the part where I posted about links? I suggest you go up and take a look.Cthulhusquatch wrote:Erik Moma is one of then ?There are a ton of white nationalists now that study theosophy.
kayman wrote:Cthulhusquatch wrote:There are a lot of links between Theosophy and white nationalism.... though I stand by what I said earlier... Erik Mona doesn't smack of that type to me... a former white nationalist recruiter and Stormfront moderator.
kayman wrote:Guntermench wrote:kayman wrote:I understand the sadness of seeing such a dear employee get fired in this way. This is one of the reasons why I chose the public service (In Brazil, civil servants have job stability) . But unfortunately this situation is inherent in the capitalist mode of production. That said, what amazed me about this whole situation is Jessica Price's statements regarding Erik Mona, Jason Bulhman, etc.
I ask again.
Is it true that Paizo's Publisher is a Nazi? (Yes that was her intention in associating, in 2021, Theosophy with Nazism).
Is Paizo's President a Homophobe?
If these accusations are true I can't continue playing Pathfinder. But what if they aren't? Are we not committing a terrible injustice?Erik Mona has a statement on Reddit, I think on the 2e sub. I don't have a link because I'm on my phone and incredibly lazy.
Jason Buhlman put out what was basically a "no comment" on a Discord server, that can also be found on the 2e sub.
I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?
By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.
You would be right if we were in the 1930s but in 2021 I guarantee that the Waldorf schools (using principles of Theosophy) that I know in Brazil have absolutely no relationship with Nazism.
I saw your post and I believe you don't think Erik Mona is a Nazi. But there maybe is the real purpose of this lady's post. Generate a doubt regarding the character of a person who has nothing to do with Nazism. If that is this lady's real goal, that in my humble opinion is a vile act on her part.
belgrath9344 |
pf2e is great they release great products that do not disappoint they listen to players feedback so I will continue to support them until they start declining in quality ir stop listening to player feedback but again I'm still new to pathfinder & paizo relative to most people on the forums & reddit so my opinion might already be invalid got downvotes on the pf2e sub just for stating MY stance so eh
DM_aka_Dudemeister |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I’m going to finish out my current adventure paths and probably cancel my subscriptions after that.
Just don’t feel right about automatically throwing my money at Paizo.
I’ll wait and see if the culture changes, and there’s real accountability before I subscribe in future.
kayman |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
kayman wrote:I saw both statements . But i must insist. Why should i trust Jessica Price?Because Mona’s refutation denies charges she didn’t actually make and jibes pretty cleanly with what she did say. She charged that he was interested in Victorian Occult and Theosophy and was somewhat clueless about the implications of its symbology and why people were offended or put off by it. His own statements almost exactly corroborate that. The charges that he, himself, is racist is a dot that was never connected in her tweets.
“kaynan” wrote:By the way, To associate Theosophy with Nazism is an evil move on the part of this lady.Pointing out that past associations make her, a Jewish woman, uncomfortable is in no way evil.
Sorry but i am not naive and i think you should not be too. In the context in which she cited the case of Saint German's painting, it is obvious that her aim was to create doubt about Erik Mona's intentions.
The Painted Oryx |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
All these people saying "I'm cancelling all my subscriptions"
I get that we don't want to support the upper leadership of Paizo but there are so many talented and amazing people working for Paizo, the writers and game designers, customer service people, artists etc.
If we cancel Paizo as a whole and stop buying their products, we also make the jobs of the good people more precarious. Not everyone is able of having a Patreon full of content we can support. Paizo as a company provides opportunities to a lot of people. I'm hoping that the company can make a big change because they have done a lot of good in the gaming industry just by being so inclusive with the products they make, if not the company environment itself.
zeonsghost |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |
All these people saying "I'm cancelling all my subscriptions"
I get that we don't want to support the upper leadership of Paizo but there are so many talented and amazing people working for Paizo, the writers and game designers, customer service people, artists etc.
If we cancel Paizo as a whole and stop buying their products, we also make the jobs of the good people more precarious. Not everyone is able of having a Patreon full of content we can support. Paizo as a company provides opportunities to a lot of people. I'm hoping that the company can make a big change because they have done a lot of good in the gaming industry just by being so inclusive with the products they make, if not the company environment itself.
How much of their staff are freelancers that have finished their work on a product by time we see it? Paizo's already let them go chase their literal next meal. A sizable portion of the people who gave Paizo its good name aren't on the payroll as employees to begin with. The folks cancelling today have already paid those people. If the company is concerned about getting those sales back and keeping those jobs, its on them to act.
I feel bad for the people outside leadership whose creativity and passion are being abused and exploited. If they are willing to use them as a shield, it only proves they're trading on the good work and faith of others.
KingOfAnything |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry but i am not naive and i think you should not be too. In the context in which she cited the case of Saint German's painting, it is obvious that her aim was to create doubt about Erik Mona's intentions.
You are putting words into her mouth that just aren’t there. The thrust of her entire thread was that management acted indifferent to concerns people raised to them.
Ruzza |
12 people marked this as a favorite. |
To explain cancelling subscriptions: Some people are doing it not to send a message, but rather that they don't want to associate with Paizo any more. I think that's fair, it's their money and they can make their choices about where they want that money to go.
Others may be doing it as a form of boycott, to get Paizo to pay attention. Still their money and to do with as they please.
If subscriptions go down, that does not mean that the creatives and lower level folks at Paizo are suddenly not getting paychecks. You can't say, "You support the company, but don't give them money? That's going to harm the people doing good." Realistically, nothing is changing for them unless management decides to change things. If management sees subscriptions going down so decides to layoff a swath of good employees, that's them making a choice to make the situation worse, rather than address the problem.
At no point will anyone say, "Paizo was a great company, but then people stopped buying their products," because the response would always be: "But why did people stop buying their products and why didn't Paizo fix that?" Also, as has been mentioned, many creatives have Patreons or work freelance. Throw them support, sub to their patreons, look out for the authors and employees who show their care openly and honestly.
Tender Tendrils |
43 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a trans person, reading all of the allegations is extremely worrying for me, and seeing people's reactions to the allegations is also extremely worrying.
So here are some things to keep in mind when it comes to a situation like this.
1. The gaming industry has a long history of vitriol and hatred directed towards female whistleblowers. The knee-jerk reaction of many people is to label the whistleblower as "Shrill" or a liar and to throw a lot of doubt there way, mostly as it is the response that people subconsciously default to so that they can discredit the whistleblower, so that they don't have to change their views of a company or people they nominally support.
2. In cases of abuse, racism, misogyny, transphobia, etc, you always get multiple people (family members, coworkers, friends, etc.) coming out with anecdotes about how they have never heard that person say or do anything inappropriate. This should be treated with a healthy grain of salt. That is not to say that those people are being dishonest - it is very common for people to just not see the signs, either because the person is subtle or stealthy about it, or because those people aren't interacting in the contexts in which the behavior occurs, or because of the subconscious bias that causes people to ignore or explain away problematic behavior that doesn't fit with your overall beliefs about the person. Sadly, because of those factors, people coming out in defense of a person means extremely little in these cases. I have seen just as many friends and coworkers say pretty similar things about people who where later proven to have committed some pretty horrible crimes.
3. It completely baffles me that in 2021, in an official statement from the president of a company facing serious allegations regarding LGBT inclusivity, a company that has many LGBT staff and that often makes a big thing of its inclusivity, would use the "I have gay friends" defense. That is the kind of thing I would expect from an out of touch politician in the 50s, not from a company that has actual LGBT employees in 2021. Aside from whether it is an appropriate or effective defense to employ (it isn't), it is a hilariously incompetent thing to put into an official statement in 2021. Anyone under the age of 30 could proof read that statement and immediately see how bad that statement makes you look. Anyone LGBT or any PoC would see that part of the statement glaring up at them. I would suggest you get people to actually proofread your statements before you post them, though that does require a culture where people feel safe providing feedback to management, which if the allegations are true, may not exist.
4. When allegations of abuse or inappropriate behavior surface regarding management personnel, it is not appropriate for those personnel to be the ones dictating the official response of that company. They are obviously going to be biased, and they are obviously going to deny the allegations. This would be fine if allegations like this where always untrue, but unfortunately they often are. An abuser trying to avoid taking responsibility for their actions externally looks exactly the same as a falsely accused person denying unfair accusations. I would recommend researching what best ethical practice is in these cases.
5. There is very little incentive for people to make false accusations in these cases. It is very socially, professionally, emotionally (and sometimes physically) dangerous to make allegations of abuse or -isms, especially online, especially if you are a woman. Jessica has done something which even a cursory experience of the internet and social issues, she would have known opens her up to difficulty finding future employment, being fired from current employment, losing friends, suffering potential legal action, being called a liar, shrill, and a variety of abusive terms online, and potentially even receiving death threats. I am not exaggerating here - women who spoke out about things online who made far smaller allegations have in the recent past received large volumes of death threats, including ones via mail and over the phone. I don't know what responses Jessica has received (aside from a few people on these forums calling her a liar and implying she has a bad personality) but I would not be surprised if there is a real personal cost for her for making these allegations. I don't see how she would benefit from being dishonest here. This is why my default response is to tentatively believe the victim or whistleblower first.
Dansome |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is impossible to make an unbiased judgment on her claims.
I will say that I do not appreciate that the piece reads like a gossip column, which undermines the real claims. That being said, that doesn't invalidate the very serious allegations.
I will watch to see how Luis, Mark, Eleanor and other staff behave following the departure (and if they stay).
Cyouni |
2. In cases of abuse, racism, misogyny, transphobia, etc, you always get multiple people (family members, coworkers, friends, etc.) coming out with anecdotes about how they have never heard that person say or do anything inappropriate. This should be treated with a healthy grain of salt. That is not to say that those people are being dishonest - it is very common for people to just not see the signs, either because the person is subtle or stealthy about it, or because those people aren't interacting in the contexts in which the behavior occurs, or because of the subconscious bias that causes people to ignore or explain away problematic behavior that doesn't fit with your overall beliefs about the person. Sadly, because of those factors, people coming out in defense of a person means extremely little in these cases. I have seen just as many friends and coworkers say pretty similar things about people who where later proven to have committed some pretty horrible crimes.
While certainly true, when one of the allegations is straight-up that the person in question routinely makes derogatory comments about gay people in a professional context, I think it's appropriate.
Like, literally in the linked tweet.
FallenDabus |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
All these people saying "I'm cancelling all my subscriptions"
I get that we don't want to support the upper leadership of Paizo but there are so many talented and amazing people working for Paizo, the writers and game designers, customer service people, artists etc.
If we cancel Paizo as a whole and stop buying their products, we also make the jobs of the good people more precarious. Not everyone is able of having a Patreon full of content we can support. Paizo as a company provides opportunities to a lot of people. I'm hoping that the company can make a big change because they have done a lot of good in the gaming industry just by being so inclusive with the products they make, if not the company environment itself.
I truly, truly hope you are right that things will change. But as one of those people who has canceled, I have to restate why I'm doing it.
In light of these allegations and in light of Sara, the single hardest working customer-facing member of the staff, being fired in a manner that caused other CS members to quit in protest (and its Sara who is the deal-breaker for me)... In light of all of that, I will not enjoy Paizo products for the foreseeable future. There is zero reason for me to maintain my subscription for something I won't enjoy. I can't afford that right now. Not financially, not emotionally.
So, I really do hope things turn around. I believe in the writers and developers who make Pathfinder and Starfinder great. I'm going to try and support them when I and where I can. You're right, we can't support everyone. But I also can't justify buying expensive luxury books and shipping them internationally in my budget when I won't get any pleasure out of them.
And Jeff's statement has 100% reinforced for me that I made the right call.