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At the current date at least and default spellstrike.
Acid Splash: Low damage for the cantrips stardards, but the easiest source of acid damage for Arcane Cascade to trigger weakness, also be decent against swarms.
Divine Lance: Not on the Arcane list, but if you pick it, it's the good damage source if you are following a good deity and is able to destroy fiends.
Gouging Claw: The bread and butter cantrip for damage with the same damage as Telekinetic Projectile but also causes bleed on a critical hit.
Produce Flame and Ray of Frost: Fire and Cold damage sources to target weakness.
Tanglefoot: Reduces speed of an enemy for 1 round, it's interesting if the speed penalty can make an enemy have to use one more action to reach the backline.
Telekinetic Projectile: Worse than Gouging Claw in every way except if the enemy resist physical with the exception of bludgening.
lvl 1
Admonishing Ray: Basic 2d6 per spell level, the main advantage is that it's non lethal, so you can spellstrike with it without killing someone.
Biting Words: Not Arcane, also 2d6 per spell level, sonic damage, it's possible to repeat spell the attack again with an action, but not very useful on Magus itself, might be interesting on something like a Bard multiclassed into Magus though.
Horizon Thunder Sphere: Really cool name, the gimmick of the spell, being able increase the number of actions for a bigger effect, is not possible with spellstrike, so it ends being a worse Shocking Grasp.
Hydraulic Push: 3d6 starting damage with heighten of 2d6 makes it do a good damage, but the push effect is really good to make the enemy have to use an action to be adjacent to you again or to put them on pits or terrain with hazards. Downside is that damage don't double on a crit.
Ray of Enfeeblement: A debuff, the enemy makes a saving throw after you hit it still, so not so hot on a bounded caster like Magus.
Shocking Grasp: The usual damage spell for a good time, if you want damage, prepare this spell.
Snowball: Weak, use it for memes if you want.
lvl 2
Acid Arrow: Decent damage spell, on even number spellstots it have the potential to do more damage than Shocking Grasp if the persistent damages goes twice.
Scorching Ray: Basic 2d6 spell level for fire damage, also a spell attack that works with Spell Swipe and Whirlwind Spell.
Telekinetic Maneuver: Makes your spellstrike an Improved Knockdown, good with low level multiclass slots.
lvl 3
Chilling Darkness and Searing Light: Not Arcane, Silver bullets, against their intended targets they are the best options damage wise, possible to pick with the Elementalist class archetype.
Magnetic Acceleration: Basic 2d6 spell level, physical damage.
lvl 4
Chromatic Ray: Causes more damage on average than Shocking Grasp in the lvl 4 slot, in the lvl 6 slot it becomes too random with a lot of non-damage effects to risk.
Murderous Vine: Not Arcane, does bellow average damage for the spell level, but the interesting part is that is also grabs the target.
lvl 5
Blood Feast: Uncommon, good damage and the half damage in temporary hit points for you is great, I would pick often if possible.
lvl 6
Disintegrate: Good damage, but needs a second saving throw roll, I personally would not risk on a bounded caster.
lvl 7
Deity's Strike: Not Arcane, interesting spell as you damage the target and after that a shockwave goes out, hard to find a way to get the spell to use your Arcane DC for the shockwave though.
lvl 8
Polar Ray: If the creature is not drained, this the best spell to cast damage wise and you even debuff it making their fortitudes saves worse, great spell.
If you don't mind not recharging with the Conflux Spells, a focus spell to spellstrike might be good and usable every 10 minutes.
Call of the Grave: From Wizard, possible to pick at lvl 4, decent sickened condition.
Charged Javelin: From Cleric, Same damage as a cantrip, but also buffs you with +1 status on the attack if you are using a metal weapon while the creature is taking persistent damage.
Elemental Toss: From Sorcerer, a little better than a cantrip damage wise, but the main advantge of being 1 action is wasted on spellstrike.
Hurtling Stone: From Cleric, same damage as cantrip, but the main advantge of being 1 action is wasted on spellstrike.
Moon Beam: From Cleric, Same damage as a cantrip but is also silver and dazzle the enemy.
Fire Ray: From Cleric, 2d6 per spell lvl, great damage wise for a Focus spell, having the same damage as most slot spells.
Stone Lance: From Druid, 2d6 per spell lvl, good damage and gives a speed debuff on a hit and immobilizes on a crit, hard to get as you only pick it at lvl 12.
Sun Blade: From Champion, 2d6 under sunlight 2d4 otherwise per spell level, but half of it is positive or good, would need an undead or fiend heavy campaign to be better than fire ray.
Whitering Grasp: From Cleric, Really good damage and persistent damage, a good pick.
Winter Bolt: From Cleric, good damage with a nice explosion if the enemy don't remove it, better on Starlit Span as a melee one chances are high of you exploding yourself.
Blink Charge: Throwing a weapon and teleporting behind the enemy FFXV Noctis Style is pretty cool, I don't know how the MAP in the strike work though.
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Wait. What?
That's not even a fraction of the number of spells I was expecting.
There were never a lot of attack roll spells in PF2. That makes the list pretty small without involving Expansive Spellstrike.
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Actually, it is generally impossible if your GM doesn't specifically give you access to it:I still can't see a good reason not to use blood feast x4 from lvl 9 on.
It's uncommon, right, but uncommon stuff is not impossible to get.
Core Rulebook pg. 637 2.0 Something of uncommon rarity requires special training or comes from a particular culture or part of the world. Some character choices give access to uncommon options, and the GM can choose to allow access for anyone. Less is known about uncommon creatures than common creatures. They typically can't be summoned. The DC of Recall Knowledge checks related to these creature is increased by 2.Source
It does look like Scorching Ray is the only spell attack that let you target more than one creature for Spell Swipe and Whirlwind Spell, you would need expansive spellstrike for other options.
How does spell strike work with Blinking Charge? You teleport and get two attacks?
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Actually, it is generally impossible if your GM doesn't specifically give you access to it:I still can't see a good reason not to use blood feast x4 from lvl 9 on.
It's uncommon, right, but uncommon stuff is not impossible to get.
Core Rulebook pg. 637 2.0 Something of uncommon rarity requires special training or comes from a particular culture or part of the world. Some character choices give access to uncommon options, and the GM can choose to allow access for anyone. Less is known about uncommon creatures than common creatures. They typically can't be summoned. The DC of Recall Knowledge checks related to these creature is increased by 2.Source
That IMO means nothing, as it states the obvious.
While a DM has the lat word on anything, it's also true that no DM would forbid players from looking for specific stuff during their downtime activities because reasons.
Leaving apart that uncommon is mostly about a specific part of the world you or that spell are from.
On the other hand, I am sure that somebody might find a DM forbidding characters from looking for uncommon stuff during downtime.
Talking about that, IIRC, I did read a reddit discussion where a DM forbidden a player from shaping the weapon with its rune of shifting into uncommon/advanced we alone.
I mean, anything can happen depends the table and people you play with.
It's also worth nothing that it's from AP backmatter, because plenty of people are more leery of AP backmatter options than of other Uncommon options, especially after a few glaringly broken things have showed up in them, like Heaven's Thunder or Pin To The Spot, and given the impression that AP content is less likely to be properly reviewed and balanced. Others figure that things being in an AP are more likely to be there because they're associated with that adventure's plot, rather than being things that are around to be found. Those are definitely both takes that I've personally seen come up repeatedly. Obviously there will be others that I haven't.
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Regular spellstrike doesn't work with Blood Feast. It lacks the attack trait, just like Warding Aggression does.
As for Blinking Charge, I think you would have to use it with expansive. You would attack an enemy, THEN blink (like to the other side of it hah) and it would be at -5 MAP. Regular spellstrike makes no mention of a second regular strike after you spellstrike not causing MAP.
For those arguing it should be 0 MAP, that would make this by far the best spell to use at higher levels, even casting it as a lvl 5 spell, as two 0 MAP strikes with a 2 hander is insane.
Spellstrike doesn't require the spell to have the Attack trait. It requires the spell to require a Spell Attack Roll. Blood Feast requires a Spell Attack Roll.
Regular spellstrike doesn't work with Blood Feast. It lacks the attack trait, just like Warding Aggression does.
As for Blinking Charge, I think you would have to use it with expansive. You would attack an enemy, THEN blink (like to the other side of it hah) and it would be at -5 MAP. Regular spellstrike makes no mention of a second regular strike after you spellstrike not causing MAP.
For those arguing it should be 0 MAP, that would make this by far the best spell to use at higher levels, even casting it as a lvl 5 spell, as two 0 MAP strikes with a 2 hander is insane.
The reason that Warding Aggression does not works is the lack of "Targets" in the spell that the expansive spellstrike asks, not the attack trait.
I think the list of Eldritch Shot Spells should match the list of Spellstrike Spells.
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Spell strike only lets you make one attack, which is 2 MAP after the attack.
Right, but the argument is that Spellstrike advances your MAP after the activity finishes and the free strike from Blink Strike happens as part of the activity.
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Ki Strike isn't eligible for expansive spellstrike. It has no targets line.
Nope, Ki-Strike is a short-term self buff, not an attack spell
Expansive spellstrike completely changes what spell strike does. There is no language in expansive spell strike at all about MAP, so MAP works normally. Blink charge’s weapon attack would definitely be effected by MAP
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Expansive spellstrike completely changes what spell strike does. There is no language in expansive spell strike at all about MAP, so MAP works normally. Blink charge’s weapon attack would definitely be effected by MAP
No it doesn't completely change it: it changes "You Cast a Spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll" to 'You Cast a Spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll, a harmful spell that can target a creature or that has an area of a burst, cone, or line.'
If it's not a spell roll then other things happen like:
*If your Strike critically fails, the spell is lost with no effect.
*Creatures use their normal defenses against the spell, such as saving throws.
*If the spell lets you select a number of targets, it instead targets only the creature you attacked with your Strike.
*If the spell has an area, the target must be in that area.
Take not that NOTHING in there removes or alters the line "This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, but you don't apply the penalty until after you've completed the Spellstrike" from Spellstrike. You are just changing the type of spell used and it's quire specific on how that changes things but MAP isn't one of them.
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The line immediately before "This counts as two attacks" is "Your spell is coupled with your attack, using your attack roll result to determine the effects of both the Strike and the spell." That doesn't happen with expansive spell. You don't make a strike to determine the effects of both.
Not really affecting the debate though as the feat says "When you Cast a Spell that doesn't have a spell attack roll as part of a Spellstrike, it works in the following ways" and lists changes and MAP's isn't changed.
So.. does "This counts as two attacks" just refer to spellstrike in general or the line immediately prior which talks about your attack roll counting for both? That is the unclear part.
It's not a listed change so I see no reason there is doubt: Nothing about it implies a change in number of attacks it counts as or how many attacks it counts for in MAPs. "This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, but you don't apply the penalty until after you've completed the Spellstrike" stands on it's own and isn't altered in the slightest. If it's specifically the 2 attacks thing, remember it's required to be a "a harmful spell" so it makes perfect sense IMO for it to be a second attack.
Expansive spellstrike completely changes what spell strike does. There is no language in expansive spell strike at all about MAP, so MAP works normally. Blink charge’s weapon attack would definitely be effected by MAPNo it doesn't completely change it: it changes "You Cast a Spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll" to 'You Cast a Spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll, a harmful spell that can target a creature or that has an area of a burst, cone, or line.'
If it's not a spell roll then other things happen like:
*If your Strike critically fails, the spell is lost with no effect.
*Creatures use their normal defenses against the spell, such as saving throws.
*If the spell lets you select a number of targets, it instead targets only the creature you attacked with your Strike.
*If the spell has an area, the target must be in that area.Take not that NOTHING in there removes or alters the line "This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, but you don't apply the penalty until after you've completed the Spellstrike" from Spellstrike. You are just changing the type of spell used and it's quire specific on how that changes things but MAP isn't one of them.
Where do you see that the feat only changes some of the text?
You've adapted a wider array of spells to work with your attacks. Rather than needing to use a spell that has a spell attack roll for a Spellstrike, you can use a harmful spell that can target a creature or that has an area of a burst, cone, or line (abiding by any other restrictions of Spellstrike). When you Cast a Spell that doesn't have a spell attack roll as part of a Spellstrike, it works in the following ways...
The other changes you quoted. That doesn't replace some of the text, it is telling you to do something entirely different than what spell strike does.
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Where do you see that the feat only changes some of the text?
Because it specifies what it changes: "Rather than needing to use a spell that has a spell attack roll for a Spellstrike, you can use a harmful spell that can target a creature or that has an area of a burst, cone, or line (abiding by any other restrictions of Spellstrike). When you Cast a Spell that doesn't have a spell attack roll as part of a Spellstrike, it works in the following ways." If it's NOT covered by this or "the following ways", it's not altered. Why would you assume there is an unmentioned change?
The other changes you quoted. That doesn't replace some of the text, it is telling you to do something entirely different than what spell strike does.
NO they aren't: they are telling you to use Spellstrike but with changes. if it's something 100% new, it wouldn't by Spellstrike anymore. Again, if you aren't referencing Spellstrike for things that aren't specifically changed, where are you looking for them? It's not making a new activity but modifying an existing one: if it's not specifically altered, why assume it's altered?
I also read it as 'Expanded spellstrike -> one attack -> following attack at -5(-4)'
But english is not my first language and I think the wording on the whole thing could be clearer
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The standard Spellstrike activity gives a MAP of 2 attacks. This is stated clearly, so no issues yet. Since it (and most everything else with similar language) contains two attack facets (though only one attack roll), it's intuitive to think that's why it has MAP 2. And IMO that's (partly) true from a design perspective. But...
Nowhere does Spellstrike say that is why it has MAP 2. We don't know the reasoning to rebuild it from scratch and declare therefore the Expanded version has MAP 1 because the spell portion doesn't use an attack. For us to deduce that would involve language that's not present, such as the language for those activities which say "these attacks accrue MAP that doesn't apply until the end". That's missing.
So Expanded Spellstrike still gives MAP 2, also since neither does the language of Expanded Spellstrike alleviate MAP.
And in terms of game balance, Spellstrike's much like Power Attack which also gives MAP 2, but involves only one big, two-action attack. Spellstrike resembles that quite a bit. That bonus damage is enough reason to dole out MAP 2 (and the action economy's the reason for the PC to bother).
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The standard Spellstrike activity gives a MAP of 2 attacks. This is stated clearly, so no issues yet. Since it (and most everything else with similar language) contains two attack facets (though only one attack roll), it's intuitive to think that's why it has MAP 2. And IMO that's (partly) true from a design perspective. But...
Nowhere does Spellstrike say that is why it has MAP 2. We don't know the reasoning to rebuild it from scratch and declare therefore the Expanded version has MAP 1 because the spell portion doesn't use an attack. For us to deduce that would involve language that's not present, such as the language for those activities which say "these attacks accrue MAP that doesn't apply until the end". That's missing.
So Expanded Spellstrike still gives MAP 2, also since neither does the language of Expanded Spellstrike alleviate MAP.And in terms of game balance, Spellstrike's much like Power Attack which also gives MAP 2, but involves only one big, two-action attack. Spellstrike resembles that quite a bit. That bonus damage is enough reason to dole out MAP 2 (and the action economy's the reason for the PC to bother).
I agree. Cast a Spell is a subordinate action of Spellstrike and the basic Spellstrike gets MAP 2. IMO changing what spell you with the Cast a Spell doesn't alter that paradigm of taking 2 subordinate actions [Cast a Spell and Strike] and taking a MAP 2 because of that.
In 2e the answer is always going to be the less fun and powerful option if you ever get an answer, which you probably won’t.