Let's see just how bad the season patrons are:
Autumn
@Level 2: Ray of Enfeeblement -- not a bad spell, but it's already on your list.
@Level 4: Create Pit -- pretty good battlefield control spell, and it's not on your list. Unfortunately, you don't get the upgraded versions of it later on.
@Level 6: Gentle Repose -- not only is this already on your core spell list as a 2nd level spell, but this Patron gives it to you late entry, and casting it as a 3rd level spell does nothing to enhance it. Poop (0/5).
@Level 8: Vitriolic Mist -- if you're into Fire Shield, you'd be into this, since it's the same type of spell, but these just aren't very good as 4th level spells, and by the time you can cast them, the retaliatory damage they do won't be much of a deterrent to attackers (and it requires that they actually hit you, which you don't want).
@Level 10: Major Creation -- somewhat useful spell, but it's already on your core list.
@Level 12: Acid Fog -- not great deterrent damage, but since it blocks sight, it could actually work as decent battlefield control as long as enemies can't see you through it, although usually you won't be able to see through it either. If you can somehow see through it or better yet go through it without being hindered or harmed (or at least have an ally that can do so), this gets a lot better.
@Level 14: Caustic Eruption -- a seriously nasty blast that isn't on your core list and is of less probability to be resisted than most elemental damage, but marred by having a non-scaling range so short that you're guaranteed to be at least right on the edge of it.
@Level 16: Horrid Wilting -- a nasty blast that targets Fortitude (although it won't work on Constructs and Undead), but it's already on your core list.
@Level 18: Wail of the Banshee -- an even nastier blast that targets Fortitude, but a Save totally negates instead of cutting it in half, and you can't aim it unless you have Selective Spell and a Metamagic cost reducer (or a Greater Selective Spell Rod), and it's already on your list anyway.
The verdict: Not Good. Out of the box, only Create Pit stands out, and Acid Fog and Caustic Eruption might be standouts with significant investment, but overall this is seriously uninspiring.
Spring
@Level 2: Feather Fall -- a potential life saver, and it's not on your core list, and even if you have flight, you might want this to save somebody else.
@Level 4: Alter Self -- good spell, but it's already on your core list.
@Level 6: Pup Shape -- being effective only on Animals, this is pretty niche, and it's already on your core list.
@Level 8: True Form -- a pretty good debuff against shapechangers, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 10: Lightning Arc -- like Lightning Bolt, except that you can actually get it to tear through a line of enemies that is perpendicular to the direction from them to you, meaning you can actually hit an enemy battle line without having to somehow work yourself into the end of it (and if they are lined up in some other way, you can make use of that too); and it's not on your core list.
@Level 12: Chain Lightning -- semi-duplicative of Lightning Arc, although it is much more flexible and does more damage; do note that the Save DC for the secondary targets is actually lower than that of Lightning Arc, and this spell is already on your core list.
@Level 14: Control Weather -- can have its uses, but it's already on your core list.
@Level 16: Stormbolts -- pretty good blast with free Selective Spell but lousy range, but it's already on your core list.
@Level 18: Time Stop -- now this is a good spell that isn't on your core list.
The verdict: Not Great, but not as bad as Autumn -- at least Feather Fall, Lightning Arc, and Time Stop are good spells that are not already on your core list, but that's only 1/3 of the Patron spells. Gets better if you have some archetype that replaces most of the other Patron spells but leaves these alone.
Summer
@Level 2: Goodberry -- pretty good survival utility, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 4: Flaming Sphere -- pretty decent adjustable battlefield control, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 6: If you need powerful illumination, this is for you, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 8: Flaming Sphere Greater Edition -- pretty decent adjustable battlefield control, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 10: Wall of Fire -- battlefield control that isn't on your list, but you get it 1 level late, and the damage is rather wimpy even for its original level, so it won't be a very good deterrent for most things that would simply wade through to put themselves where they want to be to rip you to shreds.
@Level 12: Sirocco -- decent combination battlefield control and debuff, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 14: Sunbeam -- combination debuff and undead/fungus/ooze-specific blast, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 16: Sunburst -- like sunbeam, but all in 1 burst, and still not on your core list.
@Level 18: Fiery Body -- pretty good self-buff, and it's not on your core list. Just beware of something that might trap you in water or hit you with a major Cold attack.
The verdict: Now THIS one is good -- NONE of these spells are on the Witch spell list, and only Wall of Fire is a stinker, and with some investment (Dazing Spell or an Intermediate Rod thereof) you could even make that one good.
Winter
@Level 2: Unshakable Chill -- you could get some use of this in hit-and-run attacks, but for most purposes it takes too long to work, and it's on your core list anyway.
@Level 4: Resist Elements (Cold only) -- Resist Elements is not a bad spell, and it's even not on your core list, but you get an element-locked version of it. Might be good campaign-specifically, but even then, intelligent opponents will throw surprises if they can.
@Level 6: Ice Storm -- on your core list, but you get to use it in a spell slot 1 level lower (even compared to a Wizard), upgrading it from a mediocre combination blast and battlefield control to a decent one for the low levels.
@Level 8: Wall of Ice -- battlefield control, and not on your core list.
@Level 10: Cone of Cold -- a blast that's on your core list, but you get it to use it in a spell slot 1 level lower than other Witches (like a Wizard).
@Level 12: Freezing Sphere -- blast with long range and wide area, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 14: Control Weather -- can have its uses, but it's already on your core list.
@Level 16: Polar Ray -- No Save (but Ranged Touch Attack) single-target blast and debuff, and it's not on your core list.
@Level 18: Polar Midnight -- nasty combination blast, debuff, and battlefield control that you can move around, but it's already on your core list.
The verdict: Not bad, although marred by Unshakable Chill, Control Weather, and Polar Midnight being already on your core list (and not early entry), and Resist Elements being element-locked. Gets better if you have some archetype that replaces these spells but leaves the other ones alone.
The overall verdict: If you have to be a Season Witch, the Summer Witch has by far the best Patron.
@Level 4: Flaming Sphere -- pretty decent adjustable battlefield control, and it's not on your core list.
How is that battlefield control? It does nothing but damage. Also, the move action to command it around clashes with the move action to use Cackle, which both the bonus hexes want.
Similarly, I look at Sunbeam as a bit weaker for Witch than for others, because we have plenty of other things to do with our standard actions even if we don't want to invest more spell slots. [ooc]Also, if you can get access to a fatchling spell, Gloomblind Bolts makes it look really pathetic in comparison.[/url]
The only spell on the list that really blows me away is Sirocco, and even though I overall agree that summer has the best list, I think it's really weak especially at lower levels. Of course, with spring and winter having bad bonus hex options in addition to weak patron lists, and autmumn having exact three spells that profit from the DC bonus, with Caustic Eruption the only one worth casting, there isn't much competition for best season for the archetype.
@Level 12: Acid Fog -- [...] If you can somehow see through it [...], this gets a lot better.
Why would you get such an ability in the first place when it comes baked in for the 3rd level spell Barrow Haze, though? And while Acid Fog ism not on the Witch list, Barrow Haze, Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog, Web Cloud, and Cloudkill are, and they're all better.
@Level 4: Flaming Sphere -- pretty decent adjustable battlefield control, and it's not on your core list.How is that battlefield control? It does nothing but damage. Also, the move action to command it around clashes with the move action to use Cackle, which both the bonus hexes want.
It's effectiveness does fall off at higher levels, but at low levels its damage is enough that (depending upon terrain) you could use it to herd creatures in a direction you want even as you do damage to one at a time. Yes, action economy clashes are a problem, but in some cases you won't have to move it every round to deny a space to enemies (it doesn't go away if you stop concentrating on it -- it just doesn't move for that round). Invest a bit in Bluff and Intimidate and make enemies unsure that you can't move it any time you want, and you'll probably succeed against enemies that aren't experts in Witchcraft.
Similarly, I look at Sunbeam as a bit weaker for Witch than for others, because we have plenty of other things to do with our standard actions even if we don't want to invest more spell slots. [ooc]Also, if you can get access to a fatchling spell, Gloomblind Bolts makes it look really pathetic in comparison.[/url]
Gloomblind Bolts would indeed be good if you could get it. Most Witches can't.
The only spell on the list that really blows me away is Sirocco,
I see what you did there.
and even though I overall agree that summer has the best list, I think it's really weak especially at lower levels. Of course, with spring and winter having bad bonus hex options in addition to weak patron lists, and autmumn having exact three spells that profit from the DC bonus, with Caustic Eruption the only one worth casting, there isn't much competition for best season for the archetype.
I didn't say Summer was awesome, only that it is good, standing out among the stinkers that pervade the other seasons.
@Level 12: Acid Fog -- [...] If you can somehow see through it [...], this gets a lot better.Why would you get such an ability in the first place when it comes baked in for the 3rd level spell Barrow Haze, though? And while Acid Fog ism not on the Witch list, Barrow Haze, Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog, Web Cloud, and Cloudkill are, and they're all better.
These are good spells, but in case you're up against something that resists the others(*), this is an option that not all such somethings will resist.
(*)Resistances/Immunities conferred (in order of your listing, but not an exhaustive list) by Hex Ward (only partial counter), being Construct/Ooze/Undead, Freedom of Movement, Freedom of Movement, and being Construct/Ooze/Undead (granted, a decent number of Oozes are resistant or immune to Acid as well).
I had forgotten about Barrow Haze -- that is a tough one for enemies to counter -- Hex Ward only partly counters Hexes, and doesn't counter the vision blocking (and at least counters for that will also counter the vision blocking of Acid Fog), and Barrow Haze comes with a free vision unblock for you. (And only 3rd level? Seems due for a level bump and maybe even a double level bump.) So I'll amend my rating of Acid Fog to say that this would have been decent except that it is basically completely outclassed (except in rare corner cases) by the overpowered Barrow Haze, thereby making Autumn even more of a stinker Patron.
It's effectiveness does fall off at higher levels, but at low levels its damage is enough that (depending upon terrain) you could use it to herd creatures in a direction you want even as you do damage to one at a time.
I don't see how this herds anything. Nothing prevents creatures to moving in a direction that you don't want. Creatures without spellcraft may no want to move through it, and even those who do may not want to end their movement in it (if they put value on your move action), but even than it only blocks a single square, and used this way deals no damage. I guess you can put it in front of you to prevent getting charged form that direction, but that's about it in regards to battlefield control, and you could get much more value from simply casting Web.
Gloomblind Bolts would indeed be good if you could get it. Most Witches can't.
That's why that part was supposed to be in OOC formatting. It was a comment, not the main argument.
Seems reasonable, although the Season Winter Witch and the Irrisen Winter Witch, though close to compatible, are not technically compatible due to Paizo's restrictive rules about combining archetypes (even when a combination would logically make sense). The Season Winter Witch by itself unfortunately can't get you access to the Winter Witch prestige class.
While looking at that part of the guide, I also noticed that the Hex Channeler archetype could use another note. While you wouldn't be able to get Variant Channeling unless you have a Divine Patron, you could get Command Undead/Turn Undead(*) without needing such a Patron. These are feats that even a Wizard can get (by way of the Necromancy Arcane School), and they don't care how many Channeling damage dice you do, just what your effective Cleric level is, and that is full progression. If you are in a campaign that has a lot of Undead, this could be a good deal. This would also be good eventually for a Gravewalker, although at the cost of taking a long time to get going due to having no Hexes (or ability to take Extra Hex) until 6th level.
(*)Technically you could then get Blazing Channel to follow up Turn Undead without needing a Divine Patron, although the flavor text makes this seem to be an oversight.
Also would like to bump up the rating of Dimensional Occultist a bit: Up front, I acknowledge the problem with not getting Magic Circle Against {Alighment} as a bonus spell and then trying to use the Planar Binding series of spells -- so the Patron does suffer. But the other class features are not so bad. Dimensional Augmentation gives you a Caster Level boost for out-of-combat spells (which might include bad status removal as well as divination) -- much less powerful than a Spell Sage Wizard's Focused Spells, but eventually many more times per day. Commune With Familiar means that you can Commune with extraplanar entities and only hose yourself for 1 day instead of several weeks if you botch it, and you get +4 on the check to avoid botching it in the first place. This makes an actually usable version of Contact Other Plane. And if you are doing teleportation and planar travel, Dimensional Waypoints could be a life saver; not everybody is going to need this, but if you need it, you need it bad. So I would say that this archetype starts out Orange at low levels and then climbs up to Green at high levels.
I found another nit to pick: The Winter Witch prestige class, if you wish to offset the 1 level delay in spellcasting progression, actually requires 2 feats, because Prestigious Spellcaster requires Favored Prestige Class, which lets you get 1 extra hit point or 1 extra skill point (but doesn't let you continue a primary class Favored Class Bonus) for each level of prestige class, and acts as 2/3 of a Skill Focus (but oddly, it stacks with actual Skill Focus but not with the dual 2/3 skill bonus feats such as Magical Aptitude or Persuasive). It's not all bad, but you have to budget more than just 1 feat.
Other archetype thoughts: Whenever I see Tatterdemalion Witch, I get the irrational urge to acquire one as a Cohort while playing a Ratfolk Vigilante with leadership. Ratman and Bobbin . . . .
Discord -- At 8th level this is actually kind of decent if your campaign is one where sowing dissent is useful. On a 5 point scale I'd bump it up to 2 1/2, but only once you're 8th level.
I just can't imagine any situations where the hex is useful.
Animal Skin -- This is for movement (swim/fly/climb), disguise & stealth. Plus your hexes all work when you're polymorphed, which could be nice. So ... maybe a 3.
At that time you already have Overland Flight, so the movement stuff only helps for underwater. For which the hex admittedly is good. I guess the stealth part could be useful for infiltration, but shutting down spellcasting makes it risky, and not combat-usable for most builds. That said, Witches don't naturally have Invisibility on their list, and in a solo or social-heavy (or infiltration-heavy) campaign, I can see strong merit; enough to indeed rate it a .
Hag's Eye -- The option to use this in 1 minute increments is what makes it good. That's nearly unlimited for the purpose of determining whether there are enemies in that ravine, what's up those stairs, whether that building is empty, etc. It's at least a 3, maybe even a 4.
What actually makes it good, something I'd missed before, is that Arcane Eye has a casting time of 10 minutes (!), and as a supernatural ability Hag's Eye cuts that down to a standard action. That does make a difference, and I concur that it's at least worth a .
Restless Slumber -- This wholly eliminates an opponent on a failed will save. The only reason Ice Tomb is better is because its fort save gives the witch more variety (since most of her hexes have a will save). It's a pretty solid 4.
The thing is that you already (need to) have Slumber, which has the same DC, and can be Split Hex'd. Against opponents not likely to be awaken, the additional confusion is probably irrelevant, and against ordinary groups of enemies, a Split Hex'd Slumber is actually better. Restless SLumber is only really an upgrade when you face a boss with many mooks, or your combats last long enough that chaining sleep inducing hexes is relevant.
Retribution -- I'd bump this up to a 3. It's a solid choice vs golems, constructs, undead, all of the opponents that aren't susceptible to mind-affecting effects.
Is it better than Misfortune, though?
Is anyone aware of a ruling/faq/errata that clears this up?Nope, UW never recieved a second printing (which is the only time paizo releases errata), and the question isn't answered in the book's FAQs. And those are the only two sources of changes to the RAW. Nothing in the PFS clarifications either.
Of course, RAW isn't actually problematic - bonus means bonus, not replacement. And as written, the archetype is incompatible with anything that alters or removes the 1st level hex, something I actually like for balance. And I totally agree, the archetype is far from overpowered even with a bonus hex.
I have a law degree and used to be a solicitor, therefore am the perfect rules lawyer. And Derklord is dead right in reasoning and conclusion imho.
Further, When the taking of a hex at a level is compulsory Paizo phrase it differently, for example from the Bouda archetype:-
"Bouda’s Eye (Su)
...
This hex must be taken as a bouda’s 1st-level hex, and only a bouda can take this hex."
And the Winter
Witch Prestige class:-
"Winter Hex
Starting at 5th level, whenever a winter witch can choose a major hex, she must choose from the following hexes:
ice tomb
hoarfrost
numbing chill (see below)
Once the winter witch has selected all three winter hexes, she may thereafter choose any other hex she meets the prerequisites for."