So how about those 45 recall knowledge checks every round?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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So granted this is totally impractical for multiple reasons but I was checking out the new capstone feats from Ruby Phoenix last night on Nethys and the Investigator one, All the Time in the World, caught my eye. So for 3 actions you can take 9 actions worth of observational and mental actions. Well if you use all 9 of those actions for Reason Rapidly you could make up to 45 recall knowledge checks. And you can do it every round if you wanted to for some reason. Pretty sure 45 actions on a turn reliably is the best action economy though.


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I mean, like you said, it's possible but fairly impractical. At some point you'll fail a RK check (moreso given the likely increasing DC) versus a creature, ending your attempts (pg 505 of the Core Rulebook). Also, once you're into your 13th or 14th RK check, I imagine that everyone at the table is going to ask you to stop as you're already holding the Bestiary at this point.

Liberty's Edge

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BRB, building Sherlock Holmes....


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I want to see a player grind the game to a halt with a super long drawn out "realization" scene. I will, of course, be in on it with an entire script to read out and "thinking" music to play.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, good points all around, any person leveraging this type of character is certainly going to be bumping into RK failures and also threatens to be a burden to the game if this just gets sprung on a GM.

The GM is going to need to be ready to handle this if a player does want to "go this way" but that's pretty standard fare when discussing a PC for a game. I like the idea of floating equations and geometry as the lore specialist PC zones out for a full round before quipping a ton of crazy observations, knowledge, and insight, out of nowhere.


And it is also uncommon so it's spelled out extra plainly that a GM has every right to veto it. Any player who would do that shouldn't get access to it or you strike a deal before hand where it essentially becomes a "take 20" sort of thing where you just get every level of success and failure and we move on. Essentially a Dubious Knowledge on steroids.


I'm not sure why one (player or GM) would feel that 45 Recall Knowledge checks per round is much different than asking for 45 Recall Knowledge checks off the timer. It's bad form, I'd hold the player to keeping the questions tight and relevant, and I wouldn't let it derail others.
Even with so many questions unlocked, I do not give my players so much time to run their turns! (Nor myself, combat's happening!)
By level 20, even if they start midway due to that story, all involved should have developed an understanding of table manners one would think.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Even if you did manage to nail every single RK check, I'm pretty sure even the heckin' Dark Tapestry doesn't have 45 checks' worth of Knowledge - even if you went from the wiki and improvised!

At that point I'd probably ask the player to keep it to, like, once a session at *least* just so it doesn't get annoying, and it'd be played out like a scene from Limitless or something where the character has a divine clarity moment and just remembers everything they've ever heard about the thing - (basically just giving them the whole statblock and saying "you know everything but exact numbers")


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And there's also just so much better things to do with it. You can move while doing it kind of. You don't physically move but you can mentally move and see from where you moved to. So you can scout through hallways and open doors and what not without danger. It's stupid good.

Scarab Sages

Castilliano wrote:

I'm not sure why one (player or GM) would feel that 45 Recall Knowledge checks per round is much different than asking for 45 Recall Knowledge checks off the timer. It's bad form, I'd hold the player to keeping the questions tight and relevant, and I wouldn't let it derail others.

Even with so many questions unlocked, I do not give my players so much time to run their turns! (Nor myself, combat's happening!)
By level 20, even if they start midway due to that story, all involved should have developed an understanding of table manners one would think.

Questions? They don't get questions you decide what to tell them.


Angel Hunter D wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

I'm not sure why one (player or GM) would feel that 45 Recall Knowledge checks per round is much different than asking for 45 Recall Knowledge checks off the timer. It's bad form, I'd hold the player to keeping the questions tight and relevant, and I wouldn't let it derail others.

Even with so many questions unlocked, I do not give my players so much time to run their turns! (Nor myself, combat's happening!)
By level 20, even if they start midway due to that story, all involved should have developed an understanding of table manners one would think.
Questions? They don't get questions you decide what to tell them.

We're probably on the same page here in that IMO the GM decides what data is relevant or what might be helpful, but the topic is chosen by the player. And in asking, players almost always phrase Recall Knowledge as a question, "What do I know about X?", "Do I know anything else?", etc. I wouldn't run it like Commune or something w/ specifics. Nor could I see any single moment in an adventure having enough topics to ask about. "And what about the vase? Cabinet? Bedspread?"

In some circles though, including PFS, some GMs do allow specific questions, a carryover from PF1 for simplicity even though PF1 didn't specifically allow that either! Players familiar with me generally want me to choose anyway so they get the best bits and don't lead themselves astray asking a dead-end question.

Edit: typo


If a character in my group had the ability to do so, I would probably try to build a model that roughly maps all those rolls into a single one (d1000 or something like that) so that I know how much information I should actually give out without losing an excessive amount of time.
Or, since I'm only playing online now, I could just make a macro for that. Less fun though :D


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So here's the thing:

Exploration mode usually takes place in 10 min chunks

It assumes you do 1 action's worth of activity each round on average

This means 10 actions a minute, 100 actions per 10 minutes.

45 is a little bit shy then half of that

At my table, I'd just run it as though they Investigated the whole battlefield and give them about half as much info. Easy peasy, only takes one roll, player still gets their cool moment that required 2 class feats, game moves on like normal


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It's good, but personally if I'm doing that and at level 20, I'd prefer to just not be able to fail a RK action.

Loremaster dedication,
Unmistakable lore,
Just the facts.

Boom, omniscience.

And let's be honest, if you're giving up your entire round 16 RK actions is plenty.

Scarab Sages

Castilliano wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

I'm not sure why one (player or GM) would feel that 45 Recall Knowledge checks per round is much different than asking for 45 Recall Knowledge checks off the timer. It's bad form, I'd hold the player to keeping the questions tight and relevant, and I wouldn't let it derail others.

Even with so many questions unlocked, I do not give my players so much time to run their turns! (Nor myself, combat's happening!)
By level 20, even if they start midway due to that story, all involved should have developed an understanding of table manners one would think.
Questions? They don't get questions you decide what to tell them.

We're probably on the same page here in that IMO the GM decides what data is relevant or what might be helpful, but the topic is chosen by the player. And in asking, players almost always phrase Recall Knowledge as a question, "What do I know about X?", "Do I know anything else?", etc. I wouldn't run it like Commune or something w/ specifics. Nor could I see any single moment in an adventure having enough topics to ask about. "And what about the vase? Cabinet? Bedspread?"

In some circles though, including PFS, some GMs do allow specific questions, a carryover from PF1 for simplicity even though PF1 didn't specifically allow that either! Players familiar with me generally want me to choose anyway so they get the best bits and don't lead themselves astray asking a dead-end question.

Edit: typo

No opinions needed, it's right there in the CRB. They use the Recall Knowledge action and you tell then something. People letting them ask questions aren't running the rules on this, and complaints of it taking too long with the back and forth have only themselves to blame here.


Lechteron wrote:
And there's also just so much better things to do with it. You can move while doing it kind of. You don't physically move but you can mentally move and see from where you moved to. So you can scout through hallways and open doors and what not without danger. It's stupid good.

This is the bit I like most about the feat. Getting to zip all over the place and have the ultimate ability to plan, which fits an investigator super well.

I wonder how Devise a Stratagem works with this feat, given that it takes your entire turn, and DaS only lasts until the end of your turn.


Perpdepog wrote:
Lechteron wrote:
And there's also just so much better things to do with it. You can move while doing it kind of. You don't physically move but you can mentally move and see from where you moved to. So you can scout through hallways and open doors and what not without danger. It's stupid good.

This is the bit I like most about the feat. Getting to zip all over the place and have the ultimate ability to plan, which fits an investigator super well.

I wonder how Devise a Stratagem works with this feat, given that it takes your entire turn, and DaS only lasts until the end of your turn.

If you have Haste on you and a ranged weapon (or happen to have an enemy right next to you) you can make a Strike with your 4th action.


You'd only be able to do so if using Devise A Stratagem as a free action, mind you. Also, you can't open doors with your mental-projection thing. It's definitely a cool capstone, though.


How so? It is said you can use DaS with one of your "9" actions. You should be able to use it during those and if you are quickened you should be able Strike as well.


Onkonk wrote:
How so? It is said you can use DaS with one of your "9" actions. You should be able to use it during those and if you are quickened you should be able Strike as well.

Oh! True. Ignore me, brain slipped.

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