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Another thread in a similar vein as this got me thinking, what -do- I consider too much for a wish spell? I'm fairly lenient as a GM. After all, its level 17(min) and a 9th level spell (and 25k). So I'm usually game for anything not -too- terrible. I've let players wish for templates, had them wish for an additional feat, wish for a powerful magic item (a net gain of about 60k gold) I've never really said no, or really twisted a wish that was actually cast by a player.
So... I'm just curious at what the folk on the boards here consider is "too much" in their personal opinions.
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I wouldn't be that lenient, but I had my share of bad experiences with an ambitious player of a high-level wizard, so there is some bias.
The mentioned rewards (template to item) could also come from quests. So, instead of going out for risky adventure, PCs stay at home and one of them casts wish. Hrm. It's not entirely bad, though, since it allows to streamline the campaign - players can spend the saved time on hunting down the BBEG etc..
When it comes to the decision whether something is "too much", I'd compare it to the inherent ability score boost, because it's straight-forward and IMO rather strong. So, in comparison to the score boost:
1) A feat is not that great - the player picked up the "best" already, and feat benefits tend to be more situational than ability score benefits.
2) A template tends to be much stronger. It's supposed to compete with an entire level, after all. Still, at high level several template benefits might not matter much anymore.
3) An expensive item is not only financially a benefit, it also allows the player to choose more freely than at the magic shop. Basically the same two benefits as with crafting.
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Anything beyond specifically what the spell allow has crossed the line into asking too much.
After that line I reserve the right as a GM to screw with your wish or outright make it fail.
However, depending on this wish I may grant or partially grant it anyways.
I suppose that last bit is what you're really asking about.
And my answer to that is, if I feel it would ruin the game, ruin the balance between characters, ruin the narrative, or otherwise have a negative impact I don't want to deal with then something is going to happen.
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Anything non-mechanical to the game = perfectly fine. I'll grant wishes like that all day. Examples: 1) My DMNPC's backstory was that he was bitten by a Vampire and it had just become a permanent affliction right when the PC's met him, and he was going through the painful initial throes of becoming a Vampire. One of our friends joined our group mid-campaign and took over playing my DMNPC, and towards the end of the campaign, they wished for this guy's Vampiric affliction to be removed. 2) The PC's "acquired" a rich BBEG's manor and they wished for a Moat around the property with Sharks with frickin Laser Beams-- so this became Sharks with Brilliant Energy enchanted Hand Crossbows with Endless Ammo 3) A major city had about an 1/8th-sized section of it destroyed by the BBEG in their final epic battle (the BBEG casted a DM-modified Reverse Gravity spell that threw 1/8th of the city straight up into the air, and that's where they fought-- a flying/falling upwards-esque battle in the "upheaval"-ed debris field), and when the battle was over but before all the now-falling-back-at-the-city debris had hit the ground and destroyed the city/denizens below, the PC's Wished for the debris to be formed in the major city's coastal mountains like a Mt. Rushmore-ish statue that resembled the PC's faces. <----- These kinds of wishes are immediately granted post-haste with instant triple-stamp approvals.
Things that receive triple-stamp disapprovals: Infinite Wishes, a Deck of Many things, a pet adamantine Volcano-spider under the PC's control, and the multiverse to be rid of Mimics.
Anything specifically called out within the bounds of the spell is also immediately granted.
Things that receive triple-stamp disapprovals: Infinite Wishes, a Deck of Many things, a pet adamantine Volcano-spider under the PC's control, and the multiverse to be rid of Mimics.
WTF is a Volcano-spider?
And what A-hole wishes the multiverse be rid of Mimics? Mimics are hilarious.
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I think I'm pretty fortunate, my group is fairly responsible all things considered, so when I have gave access to Wish or similar abilities, they keep it narratively reasonable, which is all I really want, something I can work with in, that continues the story...or ends it dramatically
Thats the point of the thread, I'm just curious how others handle it.What is "asking too much" in regards to the Wish spell?The answer varies from group to group.
For me, the line is, "Does this allow us to keep playing the game and make coherent sense, narratively?" If the answer is, "yes," than we're a go. If the answer to the first is, "No." than I'll talk to them about it. If the answer to the first is, "Yes." but the second is, "No." I'll talk to them about it; either way, I'd try to work with them to figure out something in-character why it might work or how we could alter it to fit within the bounds of the game and still allow our over-all story to go forward.
I tend to try avoiding sudden dramatic surprise twist bad ends (at least out-of-character), even if caused by the player, unless they've been really long coming and as clearly telegraphed by me out of character in advance as possible.
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I've never had anyone Wish for anything in my games that I'd consider to be "too much"
But that being said, I've had the group come across a Deck of Many Things and let them draw as many cards as they wanted to from it. (It was near the end of the campaign so it's not like they could really "break" anything beyond making the final few sessions too easy.)
I have never had anyone cast or otherwise activate Wish/Miracle.
However, I gave the party a Deck of Many Things like halfway through Kingmaker... they stuck it in the black box... the sort of vault that you put in a hole, then throw away the hole... right next to the Oculus of Abaddon, and an Evil sentient kukri [very first magic item I rolled up using the tables turned out to be sentient with an at will 6th-level spell... I chose Decapitate for it... and it can grow spider legs and walk around on its own].
Anyways, the Dwarf Inquisitor didn't allow anyone in the party to draw any cards before it was locked away to be forgotten... erased from history in the kingdom's black box...
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Things that receive triple-stamp disapprovals: Infinite Wishes, a Deck of Many things, a pet adamantine Volcano-spider under the PC's control, and the multiverse to be rid of Mimics.WTF is a Volcano-spider?
And what A-hole wishes the multiverse be rid of Mimics? Mimics are hilarious.
It's a Mt. Vesuvius-like lava- and ash-spewing Volcano that has spider legs, and the entire thing is made from pure adamantium. Completely Legitimate Paizo Reference: Volcano-Spider with sharp pointy teeth Look at the boooones!
It's a Mt. Vesuvius-like lava- and ash-spewing Volcano that has spider legs, and the entire thing is made from pure adamantium. Completely Legitimate Paizo Reference: Volcano-Spider with sharp pointy teeth Look at the boooones!Things that receive triple-stamp disapprovals: Infinite Wishes, a Deck of Many things, a pet adamantine Volcano-spider under the PC's control, and the multiverse to be rid of Mimics.WTF is a Volcano-spider?
And what A-hole wishes the multiverse be rid of Mimics? Mimics are hilarious.
That is so tiny it's cyuuuute.
Also, I couldn't find a bigger version online to share. XD
As an aside, I fail to understand why, as D&D-based demotivators were popular, I'm not particularly familiar with the term "D&Demotivator." So sad.
(Also possible it was popular and I was just unaware, or that I was once aware and have forgotten. XD )
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It's the "Earth Colossus", drawn by Chase Stone: deviantArt link
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i found this idea on the forums before and i liked it:
in any wish that doesn't follow the standard 'copy of x spell' or remove of x debuff (or rise dead etc). -anytime the gm desecration is needed.
any "and" or "," or anything that adds a thing to the wish is basically another wish. requiring ether a new wish or only granting the first.
so asking to be "young and rich" is actually two wishes one to be young and the 2nd to be rich.
the same goes for extra targets.
so wishing for "i wish for my wife and me to be young and rich" is actually:
1st wish for wife to be young
2nd wish for wife to be rich
3rd wish for self to be young
4th wish for self to be rich
etc
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Typically anything beyond the purview of a 9th level spell is too much. However I do try to maintain that asking for more from a Wish DOES have a chance to succeed. "May" being the key word in Wish's spell description.
I look at it as a wonderful opportunity to break out the percentile dice.