I have a ranged Sunder build that is set up specifically to target Familiars and Holy Symbols and Arcane Bonded objects... but I haven't used it against a party, yet. None of those things have become a problem for me, so I haven't found the need to target them specifically.
But yes, if someone was using their Familiar in combat, you can rest assured that I will target it.
As a GM, I don't really target familiar unless they are a viable threat in combat, or make a habit of getting caught scouting for the party. An example, a familiar that literally gets in the way of attacks to help boost its master's AC is going to get targeted rather quickly.
As a player, I take steps to make sure my familiar doesn't get involved in activities likely to get it killed. When I ran a character that has a protector familiar, such as I am doing in a Giantslayer campaign, I merely have the familiar merge with me to keep it out of danger (Merge with Familiar spell).
Yeah, the Familiar would have to be a perceived threat, such as scouting or delivering a touch spell, or being used as a poor man's flanking buddy. Barring extremely low intelligent combatants, no one in their right mind is going to get into combat with a Caster and say "amzg, get that tiny little animal hiding behind the wizard who is casting a Fireball! Quick!"
Most of the players at my table don't use familiars or animal companions due to one of our DMs always targeting them. His reasoning is that these creatures know they can't win, so will make spite motivated attacks rather than survival based attacks. He also occasionally has companion creatures attacked when sent on messenger type activities and such where it makes little sense to do so.
I still use companion creatures in his games, but with the understanding that they effectively have a video game like taunt feature, and develop them accordingly.
None of our other DM's target them, including myself. They could be targeted in a hit and run type encounter where the aggressor knows the party, but otherwise I wouldn't do so. From what I could find, historically, combatants didn't attack mounts due to the high value of the horse if captured. So I assume most attackers will assume companion creatures to be valuable and that capturing them would be more likely than stealing them.
1. if it uses a wand or other ranged attack?
Yes, wands definitely, ranged attack it depends, but there might be higher perceived threats on the field, so possibly no (or not yet). So this is up to the NPC's perceived threats, and this is the GM's burden to evaluate what this NPC's perceived threats are. Of course this all changes if the particular NPC is part of an organized force and the highly intelligent commander issues an order/command to kill the familiar.
2. If it delivers a non-offensive Touch spell to another PC (such as Enlarge Person)?
Probably not as an isolated incident with a single buff, but if the familiar is making a habit of running around buffing the party, that threat would increase exponentially.
3. If it acts as a non-combat mount moving a PC around the battlemap and saving them on using their Move actions for other things?
Absolutely, if it's ferrying around a PC while they rain hell upon the battlefield, making that nonsense stop and the PC fall is highly strategic/advantageous.
4. If it delivers an Aid Another bonus?
Depends on what aid is being given, but probably not.
So far I've only had spellcasters use Familiars in my games. However, I've seen them use their familiars to deliver breath weapons or drop oil, use the Spark cantrip for pre-prepared detonations, deliver beneficial Touch spells for healing in combat and even receive a shared Enlarge Person to act as a Flanking Buddy/Aid Another bonus to a martial PC in the party.
In all of these instances I've always thought that my MONSTERS would think: "Diminutive/Tiny/Small creature is annoying; Barbarian/Paladin with weapon trying to slay me is THREAT!" and then attacked the PCs.
I think the only time I'd ever straight-up target a Familiar would be if 1. I had an enemy spellcaster that thought it could somehow manipulate the Familiar to turn against it's master/mistress, or 2. if the Familiar were engaging in a direct melee attack that dealt enough damage to seriously jeopardize the life of the foe it attacked.
Yeah, it definitely depends on how much of a nuisance the familiar is. If it's causing all kinds of problems and has presented itself as a target due to poor positioning, a quick snap shot of a bow or smashing it with a hammer would make life a lot easier, and probably strategically worth the time in combat to kill it.
I think a lot of it comes down to 1) Intelligence/Wisdom of the NPC and 2) Opportunity to Kill it, 3) How big of a Nuisance is it
Any NPC that is a friend to a spellcaster with a Familiar likely knows how important/useful they are to that spellcaster. And if this NPC is cruel/evil, they may weaponize this knowledge and target Familiars on purpose, just to be a bully.
Also, any NPC that has survived a previous encounter with a spellcaster may remember having to run like h3ll because a Familiar tagged someone with Enlarge Person. When the big dragonfly flies from the guy with the pointy hat to the guy with the pointy stick...
Maybe it's just an archer really used to spreading out their attacks... one for you, one for you, one for your little friend... it's not like one level of Toxophilite Ranger is too far out of the way for literally any NPC with a bow.
What constitutes a "threat" in combat? When does a familiar become "viable?" An obvious answer might be if the Familiar makes a melee attack. However,
1. if it uses a wand or other ranged attack?
2. If it delivers a non-offensive Touch spell to another PC (such as Enlarge Person)?
3. If it acts as a non-combat mount moving a PC around the battlemap and saving them on using their Move actions for other things?
4. If it delivers an Aid Another bonus?
Yes, to all of those. Taking a role in the combat means the familiar becomes fair game. Now, to clarify, only if it is SEEN taking a role in combat. I play monsters cleverly, not omnisciently.
how utterly wasteful and petty to target a familiar in combat. Randomly attacking a familiar in combat is lame and boring
Now an arch-nemesis villain however? I'll have him show up wearing your familiar as a stunning dinner jacket. Really get them in the feels.
I have to admit, I have been tempted to target familiars with planar binding spells in order to force them to teach my a witch's spells, but I don't think that works. If it did work, that would be a pretty reasonable method and reason to target them.
All this talk about how it's not worth wasting action economy on Familiars makes me want to build NPC's that can easily be sprinkled into any encounter, specidically to target Familiars...
I'm thinking Small races, using blowguns. Lol. Or children with nets.
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And now the Wizard has focused all his anger and attention on some Grippli minion with a blowgun, instead of the real threat... excellent.
The best part about taking out a Familiar is the cost to the Wizard... this will help make up for all the gold you have saved by crafting everything. Ah, balance...
I'm not sure I understand, really.
Let's forget who's a familiar and who's a PC for a moment. They're all combatants, and they're all enemies of whatever monster or NPC is at hand.
Sometimes you target the highest threat first, so it's neutralized the soonest.
Sometimes you target the easiest target first, so your efforts have an effect as quickly as possible.
--it really just depends on the situation. If I'm facing a goblin spellcaster and it's lvl1 warrior brood, I'll probably go for the spellcaster first. But if it's a goblin in full plate with a tower shield and some lvl1 goblin barbarians with glaives, the lackeys are more of an immediate threat than their leader.
If a familiar is perceived as a threat, then it will be attacked. Now, if it's attacked before or after it's master is a different story. A wizard is fairly squishy and can dish out a lot of pain, so they're probably the priority, most of the time.
But if getting rid of the familiar would make dealing with the wizard easiest--either because of Aid Another or using magic items or being a mount--then sure! Why not?
It's not something that happens all the time. And it's not something that's always successful when it does happen. Just like any other attempt to harm the party.
...one of our DMs always targeting them. His reasoning is that these creatures know they can't win, so will make spite motivated attacks rather than survival based attacks.
That...wow. I'm sorry.
1. Tell them to get better at building encounters.2. Tell them to get better at playing various creatures and NPC's.
From what I could find, historically, combatants didn't attack mounts due to the high value of the horse if captured. So I assume most attackers will assume companion creatures to be valuable and that capturing them would be more likely than stealing them.
From what I've learned, this concept is largely false. A horse was valuable, but your life was more so.
Well first, I think the PC's will have a fairly easy time figuring out what's going on with the goblins when start flying into rages of some sort.
Second, if the halfling ends up within reach of the goblins, it seems pretty fair to target the wolf so she'll have a harder time making those insanely accurate ranged attacks.
The same goes for the owl. No, of COURSE I'm not saying that "...multiple goblin barbarians are going to move through the melee martial's threat area, get in the middle of all the PCs, and use several glaive attacks to try and hack down the Tiny sized owl?" That's not at all what I said above. If dealing with the familiar/animal companion first makes dealing with the PC easier, then it would make sense in certain situations, if the opportunity arises, to go for it.
Third, if two mobile characters are allowed to be fully mobile, the front line combatant is allowed to stand on the front line and the ranged/blaster/buffer-type is allowed to hang back and do their thing...there is something wrong with the encounter. What I would expect is, say, for the goblins to have some of their number hiding in the caves along the cliff face behind the party, and for there to be enough difficult terrain and cover and such to make things tricky for wolves and frog people. And in THAT situation, where the goblins get a round or two to target the elf with an owl? If the owl seems to be making it harder to get the elf, then yes. Snicker-snack. Get that thing out of the way. But if it's just flying around and hooting up a storm? Nah, probably not.
as randomly attacking a familiar is both lame and boring, if in the situation of some mooks, you may mitigate the lameness and boringness somewhat by having the mook take some swings out of sheer frustration at the familiar, making them fixated on their target to the point they forget about everyone else, only for the familiar to fly or scamper away, leaving mook to be easily captured and interrogated.
tl;dr, attacking a familiar should be done to advance a story or narrative, not out of some mechanical or gameist goal, much like stealing a spell book or sundering a favored weapon.
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I might do it for a narrative/story reason but generally I tend to avoid targeting them simply because I had experiences with a GM who regularly ran enemies who seemed able to 'sense the magic' in a familiar and would target them if they simply went out in the city. Not doing anything more than a normal cat but the enemies would still deliberately target them. It got even worse in combat with enemies targetting a cowering cat in a corner that wasn't even doing anything excpet trying to survive "because its smart tactics".
Admitedly this was back in 1st ed but still every enemy went after the weak familiar to the point of ignoring the melee fighter trying to cut off their head on some occasions. I still remember one pack of wargs that broke off atacking the party to eat the cat familiar I'd spent several sessions slowly winning over because they ruled before you could cast "find familiar" you needed to earn the target animals trust. I'd just gotten to that point and munch.
Anyway its left me very reluctant to target them unless the party's using them heavily in combat or the like and even then I don't enjoy it.
One of my players tends to target anything that *might* be a familiar, just in case. A bird goes past? Familiar! Shoot it! A cat sits on a wall looking at them? HACK A toad lurks in a pond, croaking in a suspicious manner? WHACK
I don't think I'm to blame for this.
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I don't think there's a legit way to do it in Pathfinder, so you may have to check 3E or something 3pp, but just once you should make this a thing. Have a whole posse of lost/abandoned/rogue familiars ambush him (and the rest of the party) at some point. Maybe throw in a few ACs, an eidolon or two, all led by a Paladin's mount seeking divine vengeance for all of those innocent little critters slain. Doesn't have to be truly lethal, but should make for an interesting one off encounter, or at least a bizarrely memorable one.One of my players tends to target anything that *might* be a familiar, just in case. A bird goes past? Familiar! Shoot it! A cat sits on a wall looking at them? HACK A toad lurks in a pond, croaking in a suspicious manner? WHACK
I don't think I'm to blame for this.
Or a lvl 20/MR 10 archmage and their leadership army pissed off at the jerk who brutally murdered their beloved Mr Fluffy when he was just enjoying his daily bath in the pond and croaking at any pretty lady toads who went past.
Random murders = random enemies who may well be more than you can handle.
I don't think there's a legit way to do it in Pathfinder, so you may have to check 3E or something 3pp, but just once you should make this a thing. Have a whole posse of lost/abandoned/rogue familiars ambush him (and the rest of the party) at some point. Maybe throw in a few ACs, an eidolon or two, all led by a Paladin's mount seeking divine vengeance for all of those innocent little critters slain. Doesn't have to be truly lethal, but should make for an interesting one off encounter, or at least a bizarrely memorable one.One of my players tends to target anything that *might* be a familiar, just in case. A bird goes past? Familiar! Shoot it! A cat sits on a wall looking at them? HACK A toad lurks in a pond, croaking in a suspicious manner? WHACK
I don't think I'm to blame for this.
Or a lvl 20/MR 10 archmage and their leadership army pissed off at the jerk who brutally murdered their beloved Mr Fluffy when he was just enjoying his daily bath in the pond and croaking at any pretty lady toads who went past.
Random murders = random enemies who may well be more than you can handle.
GM: As the sun rises above the horizon, the morning dew starts to evaporate into a low fog. There's a damp, chilly breeze that moves the fog through the grass. The sky is clear, a raven caws as it can be seen flying overhead...
Player 1: I shoot the raven with my Orc HornBow, just in case, ya'know?
GM: Okay, your arrow strikes the raven, a poof of feathers is visible even at this range. The arrow sticks in the raven, and its body tumbles spinning to the ground with a thud.
Player 1: I'm going to go retrieve my arrow and make sure it's dead.
GM: Oh, it's dead. By the looks of it, it's been dead longer than your Half-Elf friend has been alive. And it is wearing a necklace that glows with a sickly green light. A shutter on the amulet snaps open, and a serpentine eye looks around. The eye focuses its gaze on you as you reach for your arrow...
ROLL FOR INITIATIVE!!!
An incorporeal Lich teleports nearby...
As a player, I've never had a familiar targeted by a GM. Then again, that could be because I've never actually used a familiar.
THAT could be because of how long I'd spent playing AD&D Second, where find familiar means paying 1000 gold for a 25% chance at having a curry barbecue, and a 75% chance to instead install a kill-switch on yourself.
As a GM, I have a wizard whose familiar doesn't often find itself on the wrong end of attacks... until he starts trying to have it do the Eyeball Spellstrike (delivered shocking grasp + dirty trick.)
Familiars are usually not worth targeting, in fact most PCs shove them in a familiar satchel, backpack etc. so they're not valid targets at all.
But one that is doing useful things in combat should be targeted for the same reason smart enemies will target the casters, it's both easier to kill and more impactful.
It's why I've never once taken improved familiar, sure a familiar with wands sounds nice, but it's just going to die the first time you fight anything with a brain.
One of my players tends to target anything that *might* be a familiar, just in case. A bird goes past? Familiar! Shoot it! A cat sits on a wall looking at them? HACK A toad lurks in a pond, croaking in a suspicious manner? WHACK
I don't think I'm to blame for this.
Doesn’t that slow the party to a crawl? Killing every cat, bird, toad, fox or rabbit that crosses his field of vision must mean he’s attacking every few minutes.
I’ve had a familiar targeted, by enemies, but mainly because said familiar (a celestial owl with the sage archetype) will attack anything he knows to be evil on principle, even though he is a terrible combatant. That’s a roleplay decision on my part, so I know it’s a risk.
Generally my rule of thumb as a GM would be that an animal native to the area, behaving the way such an animal normally does shouldn’t draw attention to themselves. After all, unless the party are fighting in pristine buildings or alien environments, there are probably always a few rats or birds hanging around the place, just no one ever mentions them.
Conversely, a strange foreign lizard creature wandering around on it’s own might discover it has been netted for sale to the local menagerie, Because that sounds like an interesting plot hook.
Goblins or Grippli, armed with butterfly nets, built using these class levels;
Bandit-Kidnapper UnRogue 4
Constable Cavalier 2
... Order of the Penitent
Target ALL Familiars! Capture them. Bring them to me, ALIVE! I will put them in a circus, or put them to work, or siphon their magic away from them like Gargamel plans to do to the Smurfs...
It's hard to make a Familiar viable in combat... Mauler is only 3/day, and even Mauler's Endurance doesn't increase this.
But yes, Eldritch Guardian Fighter for two levels to get Share Training... then Carnivalist UnRogue to share Sneak Attack...?
Use a Poppet Familiar to get a breath weapon?
I really don't know, honestly. Maybe some combination of Evolved Familiar: Reach, and the Prankster archetype? Dirty Tricks are like literally the only combat maneuver I respect.
I have a non-magical Pugwampi build using Eldritch Guardian Fighter gestalt with Carnivalist-Sylvan Trickster UnRogue... Rogue's Edge for Ride and Handle Animal is awesome if you want to use your Familiar as a mount, which is a lot easier for Pugwampi since they are Tiny.
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Something threw together in order to get some fun stuff out of a familiar.
Eldritch Guardian Fighter 2: Share Training
Carnivalist unRogue 2: Sneak attack
Beast-Bonded Witch 1 (Strength Patron): Give feats, swap STR/INT a few times
Chosen One Paladin 11: Share Lay on Hands/Channel, Improved Familiar, Familiar Shapechanging, Share Smite Evil
Perhaps pad out the remaining 4 levels with unRogue to lift up your sneak attack dice, or throw in something else.
You'll have to take the Emissary archetype, but that carries over into the Improved Familiar. There are several options for Improved familiars: Wysp (Any), Arbiter (Inevitable), Cassisian (Angel), Harbinger (Archon), Silvanshee (Agathion), and Shikigami (Kami) (my favorite).
Hand's Detachment for a diminutive familiar with strength 13. Take a level in Wizard:First World Caller to get it one humanoid form and take either canopy troll or sewer troll. That gives you a familiar walking around with 3 or 4 attacks and 19 strength at 3rd level. You could make it a mauler as well, but they can't use mauler form and the alter self from fey-touched creature at the same time. Still, one attack with grab could be useful from time to time, and maybe you can ride a giant hand, I don't know. That bumps it up to a 20 strength at 3rd level instead of 19.
And it comes back in 2d4 days for free, which is nice if you are using it in combat.
There's other things you can do of course, but they tend to make it silly. Bumping the things level with supernatural spy, magical enigma, halfling wizard or shaman favored class, and so on. But keeping it simple is probably better. You could also use real polymorph spells on it if you were a caster. You could mash a bunch of class levels together to get it more abilities, but it gets silly fast.
Hit the Rogue with your Greatsword... use that Bite attack you generally forget about on the Familiar. Lol.
Obviously, you don't allow yourself to be flanked... and even Mongo, with an Intelligence of 7, can realize that the house cat somehow threatening him is probably easier to kill than the armored Rogue... even if the Rogue's armor is light and adorable.
That is WAY different than having dedicated snipers purpose-built to target Familiars, bonded objects, and holy symbols, though. One is just sound tactics, and the other is being an obvious bully.
And it may make sense to toss such a sniper in with the boss man's minions. But it shouldn't be something that happens repeatedly... unless it is a reoccuring boss/henchman combo. At that point, the party should be both able and willing to modify their approach in order to mitigate the sniper from killing the Familiar, again.
We had two casters with familiars in relatively recent Pathfinder campaigns. One was a wizard (Figment archetype familiar in the form of a greensting scorpion) who frequently used his familiar to deliver touch spells. This familiar looked and was dangerous. He frequently had his familiar killed, but given the familiar's archetype this was only a minor inconvenience.
The other was my multiclassed PC who got a familiar (Valet archetype familiar in the form of a thrush) from a single level of Bloodrager. That archetype traded away virtually every ability that would make it useful for the familiar to enter combat or even be much closer than half a mile away from my PC. This familiar would occasionally scout but usually would stay well away from danger and assist with crafting during downtime. This familiar looked and was harmless and was almost never targeted.
Yeah, nobody at my table had one, so I never had the opportunity or desire to target one specifically.
I pay little attention to Familiars, honestly. Out of 200+ NPC's I have written up, the only TWO that have dedicated Familiars picked out are the Dreamthief Hag Souldrinker and the Eyebiter/Evangelist... and both of their Familiars are chosen for them by their classes. Everything else is, meh, and will be determined pretty much on the spot should the opportunity arise to use one of my NPC's that happens to have a Familiar.
I should probably take the time to actually explore the usefulness and utility of Familiars. I do know that I seen enough posts about them to assemble some sniper builds specifically to deal with them, but never played a character with one. Even without fancy archetypes, I am sure even the most basic Familiar isn't a bad thing to have.
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It is situational:
- non intelligent attacker? It probably will attack the nearest thing in the direction from which the hut come, possibly with a bias toward the larges target;
- animal intelligence creature hunting for food? Unless the size disparity is too large, it probably will target the creature that appears to be the weakest;
- animal intelligence creature that defends its lair? Probably it will target the apparently strongest creature;
- low intelligence creature? Probably would target the creature that seems the most dangerous;
- high intelligence attacker? Probably will select the target that will reduce the prowess of the party and is easy to eliminate.
In the second and last examples, the familiar can be selected. Removing the familiar can weaken the spellcaster for the next encounter, especially if she is a witch. Even if she is a wizard, losing alertness and a bonus to a skill or a save hurts.
But my villains try to survive an encounter and often run away. Only a few fight to the death.