Can Scout add SA dmg to adjacent foe with Cleave?


Advice


Theorycrafting a Scout4/Barb1. Stats are not really relevant, but I was curious if a Scout that is charging two adjacent foes can add SA to both using cleave?

Grand Lodge

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Nope, because you can't cleave and charge at the same time. Charge is its own full-round action. Cleave is it's own standard action. So you can't combine the two.


Only the first is flat footed, so only he gets the sneak attack, unless you have the feat Suprise Follow-Though, which makes denies the second one his dexterity bonus. Not quite as good as flat footed for things like Sap Master, but still pretty good, though charging and cleaving are a pretty serious hit to your AC for the round...

Grand Lodge

Kateris wrote:
...though charging and cleaving are a pretty serious hit to your AC for the round...

Also a serious hit to the rules..


Best I can see is Lvl 8 Scout/Barb 1, to have the ability to move 10ft, before doing a Cleave/Great cleave, and surprise Follow through.

Unfortunately, Cleaving Finish and Surprise follow-through do not stack, because Surprise follow-through works off of Cleave and Great Cleave only.

Sczarni

Technically you can use Cleave on flat-footed foes and apply SA damage on both. It would be possible in the surprise round probably but like others mentioned, you can't charge and cleave.


yeah, though nevermind charge. Barb can already do 40 ft move then standard attack, - it may not be a double move, but with the scout levels-- just stealth to close range, and move/cleave.

The only issue I see is the surprise round (which gets kinda silly sometimes, like when you're a dual wielder, sneaking up on two adjacent targets. Why can't I try to stick both again? Oh, standard action or Move. Pfft.)

Anyway, so long as you can sneak, (begin surprise round) 5 foot step + Cleave, you're okay. But there's just no way to come out of stealth, move 40 ft, and THEN attack someone, before they get to defend themselves. Ultimately that's why they made the rules the way they are; If they have even a second to notice you running at them like Lancelot, they gain dex to ac, unless they're impressively stupid daffodils like the ones that Lancelot cleaved.

Therefore, invest heavily in stealth, and or consider taking Overrun feats, so you can potentially run *through* both enemies instead, or over the first *free pop* and then charge attack the second. Sorta accomplishes what you're looking for here, which is the whole "I jump out of the bushes and rawr on people's faces" With Surprise Maneuver, on top of it, you can get a bonus to your cmbs on sneak attacks too.

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