Buffing party armor class: i need your knowledge, oh wise loremasters!

[Level 20 NPC]

Hello, i'm building a new character and i'm looking for ways to buff my teammates armor class aside from spells, bodyguard/aid another builds and some variant channeling options (because i'm already considering one or more of these elements in my possible builds so far).
I'm mainly interested in good action economy, because i want to buff all my 3 teammates every round.

Are there any bard/skald archetypes which can improve AC instead of attack rolls? (no third party please)

Also, some casters who can share teamwork feats?

Thx

[Lelomenia]

Urban Skald can give +2/+4/+6 to Dex, which could help with AC.

[DeathlessOne]

Skald can do pretty much all of that, specifically a Sunsinger Skald, which gets access to Channel Energy (and thus variant channeling). Bardic Masterpieces can help for those instances where you want to share teamworkfeats and gives a use for performance rounds outside of a bard song.

If you make the Skald a reach-build, you can use your turn to buff and position yourself, and your attacks of opportunity to deal damage. I did something like this for our Iron Gods game.

[Dwarftr]

Well, there is a class that is Paizo, but you will not find it on Archives and its called the "Omdura". Check out d20pfsrd under base classes. I believe it was from the comic build or something i can't remember. But in our group we have one, the DM allowed it because it is Paizo content.

I would say its kinda a mix of palli/inquis/war priest......?
But the invocations allow you to buff party members within 30ft with a buff.

Invocation (Su)
An omdura can call forth he power of her deity to improve her allies’ abilities as a standard action.

When the omdura calls upon this power, she must select one type of invocation from those listed below to grant the benefits to her allies within 30 feet. If the omdura is evil, she grants profane bonuses instead of sacred, as appropriate. Neutral omduras must select profane or sacred bonuses. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. A called invocation cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the omdura is killed, paralyzed, stunned, or knocked unconscious.

The omdura can use this ability for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. The omdura can change her chosen invocation to another type as a swift action, but doing so expends a 1-minute increment of her invocations.

At 7th level, an omdura can call an invocation as a move action instead of a standard action. At 13th level, an omdura can call an invocation as a swift action.

Destruction: The omdura’s allies are filled with divine wrath, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by 1 for every 3 class levels the omdura has.
Healing: The omdura radiates a healing light, granting fast healing 1. This causes the omdura’s allies to recover 1 hit point each round (up to their maximum hit points). The amount of fast healing increases by 1 for every 3 class levels the omdura has.
Justice: This invocation spurs the omdura’s allies to seek justice, granting a +1 sacred bonus on attack rolls. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 class levels the omdura has. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled on attack rolls to confirm critical hits.
Piercing: This invocation gives the omdura’s allies great focus and makes their spells more potent. This benefit grants a +1 sacred bonus on concentration checks and caster level checks to overcome a target’s spell resistance. This bonus increases by 1 for every 3 class levels the omdura has.
Protection: The omdura radiates a protective aura, granting a +1 sacred bonus to Armor Class. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 class levels the omdura has. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled against attack rolls to confirm critical hits against the omdura’s allies.
Purify: The omdura’s allies are protected from the vile taint of her foes, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 class levels the omdura has. At 10th level, the bonus is doubled against curses, diseases, and poisons.
Resiliency: This invocation makes the omdura’s allies resistant to harm, granting DR 1/magic. This DR increases by 1 for every 5 class levels the omdura has. At 10th level, this DR changes from magic to an alignment (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) that is opposite the omdura’s. If she is neutral, the type of DR doesn’t change.
Resistance: The omdura’s allies are shielded by a flickering aura, gaining 2 points of energy resistance against one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic)chosen when the omdura calls this invocation. The protection increases by 2 for every 3 class levels the omdura has.
Smiting: This invocation bathes the weapons of the omdura’s allies in a divine light. These weapons count as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. At 6th level, the allies’ weapons also count as one alignment type (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. The type selected must match one of the omdura’s alignments. If the omdura is neutral, she does not grant this bonus. At 10th level, the allies’ weapons also count as adamantine for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (but not for reducing hardness).

[MrCharisma]

ARCHIVIST BARD

[avr]

Buffing party AC is a lot like debuffing enemy attack rolls; an intimidate/dazzling display build can do the latter, possibly while hacking through the enemy. Or a court bard with their satire performance (weaponised sarcasm!) can work similarly.

[MrCharisma]

Oh along those lines you could give your allies a miss-chance, eg. Blur/Displacement.

Or you could use effects that cause enemies to roll twice on their attacks, eg. Hexes like Misfortune or Protective Luck.

(I like PROTECTIVE LUCK plus SOOTHSAYER, since it lets you buff your allies hours before the battle to give them 1-3 rounds of protection when a fight eventually starts, and has no limits on uses per day.)

[Wonderstell]

A really cheesy AC boost is to give out Swarm Scatter and fill the battlefield with easily stackable allies, as the feat has no cap.

Level 20 NPC wrote:

Also, some casters who can share teamwork feats?

Shared Training is on a lot of spell lists, most notably on the Inquisitor/Hunter lists (as they get bonus teamwork feats).

[*Khan*]

Just dont go all in. A moderat AC boost is fine, but remember not to make it a weapon-race with your GM. And AC is just one layer of defence. Perception, Saves and CMD are very important to.
And it is fun to have 1-2 weak spots, so you have to be careful and tactical.
Encounters are most fun if the enemies are a threat and you have multiple options to respond to that threat.

[Derklord]

I propose the Twilight Speaker Skald. While it doesn't have a performance granting an AC bonus, its Inspire Rage-replacement grants a bonus to attack rolls and saving throws, has no AC penalty, and unless your GM is mean and ignores explicit writer comment, is eligible for adding an AC bonus via Beast Totem.

Maybe that combined with Variant Multiclassing (Cleric).

If you'd be OK with a Bard, Filidh grants a straight-forward AC bonus, and would stack with Arcane Healer, which provide Channel Energy just one level behind a Cleric. It keeps the Bard list, but changes the casting to divine, however.

Evangelist Cleric or Oath of the People's Council Paladin would, of course, be alternatives.

[Level 20 NPC]

Little update/brainstorming:

In the end I went with another character idea for that campaign, but now i have to build a new character so here we go.

First of all, i'm considering taking a single level in witch (with 2 extra hex feats) for the soothsayer-protective luck-cackle combo. It could look like a wasted level but i actually think it's really strong, expecially on big groups. If i had another free feat i could get evil eye too, for a -2 to hit to enemies... but since i like efficient use of action economy i hope to have better uses for my standard action in combat.
Also, since 2 feats is a big investment, i'll have to follow up with classes who grant bonus feats or pick strategies that don't require a lot of them.

Second, i've noticed the mouser swashbuckler archetype which gives a juicy -4 to hit: it's worth considering, since it's also a great candidate for an aid another build. Or even intimidation, for more penalties. It would be interesting with a cavalier or samurai multiclass, but that's probably hard to integrate.

I'm not a great fun of skalds: i love the class, but spellcaster teammates don't usually benefit greatly. Urban skalds could help in that regard, but then there's the problem of allies in full plate who gain nothing from +6 DEX

Both Omdura and Archivist bard are quite interesting as a AC buffer, with the bard probably winning thanks to better spells

Filidh is a great advice actually, expecially if i can combine his AC boost to the right variant channel (i still have to check)

In the end, i probably want too much from a single character. But i think i could get all of these things if i took a follower through Leadership (?)

[DeathlessOne]

Leadership is one of those 'Ask your GM before you even start' feats. As a GM myself, I design and treat cohorts just like any other NPC. The player may get some input but the only character they truly have control over is their own PC.

Honestly, I'd drop the Soothsayer Hex and pick up the Evil Eye Hex. Soothsayer lets you pre-buff your allies, yes, but Evil Eye gives you more flexibility to debuff the enemy, and it allows you to stack simultaneous debuffs on the enemy and keep it going with Cackle.

There is nothing wrong from wanting a lot from a character. You just have to be willing to let go of other things and accept a certain level of performance. For example, I have a character in Giantslayer that is a mess of multiclasses but it works.

Specifics, if you want it:

Unchained Rogue (Sylvan Trickster), Witch (White-Haired), Brawler (Strangler), with the variant multiclass Magus on top of it. I'm 4 levels behind on spells for the witch but I am a monster on the battlefield. My spell selection is spectacular for its purposes (situational damage, utility, and buffs). My ranged ability relies on a one-shot per round vital strike with a crossbow, so that I can Cackle to my hearts content. My Hexes are Protective Luck, Cackle, Misfortune, and Murksight. Evil Eye is on the list, eventually. My melee ability is centered around my Hair slam attack, which grapples and constricts the enemy. I generally use it to flank and trip the enemies unless they specifically target me, then I lock them down in massive CMB rolls. Woe to an monster that gets near me once I hit level 11 and can channel spells through my slam attack.

If anyone is curious, I took VMC Magus specifically to get the ability to treat my BAB equal to my level when determining CMB for Grapple. everything else is just icing on the cake.

[Ryze Kuja]

Give a Bard max Intimidate, Dazzling Display, Improved Dirge of Doom, and Greater Dirge of Doom.

Frighten = AC: Impossible, at least until you corner them and they fight back, then they'll still have a -2 to attack.

Quote:

Improved Dirge of Doom

The foreboding tone of your dirge is especially effective at unsettling your enemies.

Prerequisite(s): Ability to perform dirge of doom.

Benefit: The range of your dirge of doom ability is extended to 60 feet. Additionally, if a creature is shaken from another effect, the effect of your dirge of doom is changed to frightened for that specific creature. This benefit cannot cause a creature to become panicked, even if a target is already frightened from another effect. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.

Normal: The range of dirge of doom is 30 feet. A creature that is already shaken cannot become frightened by dirge of doom.

Quote:

Greater Dirge of Doom

The haunting sound of sepulchral intonations chills the most stalwart adversary to its very core.

Prerequisite(s): Improved Dirge of Doom, ability to perform dirge of doom.

Benefit: The effect of your dirge of doom lingers with a target for 2 rounds after the creature leaves the dirge’s area of effect. If you use your dirge on a creature that is shaken, it becomes frightened. If you use it on a creature that is frightened, it becomes panicked. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.

Normal: Fear effects on a creature end immediately once it leaves the area of dirge of doom. A fear effect cannot be made more extreme by dirge of doom and can be changed only to the frightened condition by the Improved Dirge of Doom feat.

Round 1: Dazzling Display

Round 2: Dirge of Doom
Round 3: Cast Summon popcorn

Greater Dirge isn't required, but it is really nice to have an extra 2 rounds after they leave the Dirge area. But for panicky funsies, see if you can get anyone in your group to specialize in frightening 1 or 2 targets during round 1 and 2 before the Bard uses Greater Dirge of Doom in round 2 for max effect.

[Level 20 NPC]

DeathlessOne wrote:

Leadership is one of those 'Ask your GM before you even start' feats. As a GM myself, I design and treat cohorts just like any other NPC. The player may get some input but the only character they truly have control over is their own PC.

Honestly, I'd drop the Soothsayer Hex and pick up the Evil Eye Hex. Soothsayer lets you pre-buff your allies, yes, but Evil Eye gives you more flexibility to debuff the enemy, and it allows you to stack simultaneous debuffs on the enemy and keep it going with Cackle.

There is nothing wrong from wanting a lot from a character. You just have to be willing to let go of other things and accept a certain level of performance. For example, I have a character in Giantslayer that is a mess of multiclasses but it works.

** spoiler omitted **

Are you sure you can combine normal and variant multiclassing?

BTW yeah, Leadership needs to be addressed before the game but i should be able to build my follower in theory (the master is quite diplomatic on the subject).
After playing several witches i cannot agree with you on soothsayer vs evil eye: evil eye is very good vs one big enemy and if you are out of spells honestly, otherwise it's not great for a standard action. When you advance your witch level and it becomes -4 and affects 2 targets with split hex, then it's good, but still can't beat soothsayer IMO... expecially with buffs that you can use again and again like protective luck. Basically with this combo you can always have protective luck active as long as you can spare a move action. And since i'm only going to have a single level in witch evil eye would just be a nice backup tool that i'll put in my build if i have a spare feat

[Level 20 NPC]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

...

While that's a good tactic, i don't want to use fear mechanics for three reasons:

- some enemies are immune;
- some enemies you want to stay where you can loot them;
- the theme i have in mind for this character is helping and protecting the others, not scaring them.

I have, however, a fear concept in mind for another character. I'm going to use antipaladin tho, to eliminate the first problem, and i'm probably going to mix him up with some inquisitor/rogue/bard/cavalier archetype. Also, i'm going to use intimidate checks and nothing DC related: it's more reliable

[DeathlessOne]

Level 20 NPC wrote:

Are you sure you can combine normal and variant multiclassing?

Sure you can. VMC is a variant rule (its in the name) and should the GM allow you to use it, they get the final say on whether or not you can use it along side normal multiclassing or not. This goes with any variant rule, of course, and is just like a GM using houserules.

Quote:

BTW yeah, Leadership needs to be addressed before the game but i should be able to build my follower in theory (the master is quite diplomatic on the subject).

Rules never say that you get to build the cohort. The only things you are explicitly allowed to do are create your character and any companion critters you have creation guidelines for. A cohort is an NPC and NPC creation is GM territory. "A cohort is generally an NPC with class levels, while followers are typically lower level NPCs." But, if your GM lets you do it, that's cool. I just wanted to caution you before you got settled on the idea.

Quote:

After playing several witches i cannot agree with you on soothsayer vs evil eye: evil eye is very good vs one big enemy and if you are out of spells honestly, otherwise it's not great for a standard action. When you advance your witch level and it becomes -4 and affects 2 targets with split hex, then it's good, but still can't beat soothsayer IMO... expecially with buffs that you can use again and again like protective luck. Basically with this combo you can always have protective luck active as long as you can spare a move action. And since i'm only going to have a single level in witch evil eye would just be a nice backup tool that i'll put in my build if i have a spare feat

You can disagree. That is fine. I have a different playstyle and would personally never use Soothsayer (or attempt to use cackle to keep the Fortune Hex up all day long). It might be the superior option but it just rubs me the wrong way.

[MrCharisma]

If I were going to play around with a witch dip for defensive hexes I'd probably take Soothsayer and Protective Luck, but skip Cackle.

The S/PL combo gives your party 1 round of protection for essentially a free action, whoch is amazing. It would obviously be better on a full Witch (/Shaman/Hexcrafter/whatever) because it would scale to 2 and eventually 3 rounds of protection, but 1 round of "free" protection is pretty good.

Adding Cackle means it now costs actions. It's only a move action, so it's not terrible, but you might need that move action to position yourself. If you're playing a Bard (which you said you're considering) then that move action becomes a lot more valuable. From level 7 to level 12 you want to use your move action to perform and your standard to cast, especially in the first round of combat. From level 13 onward you can get your move action back by using your swift action to perform, but if you have another use for your swift action you may still want that move action to begin performing. On top of that Cackle's 30 foot range might necessitate movement to make full use of it, which again generates competition cor your move action.

None of that is necessarily game-breaking - it's just action economy - but this tactic is costing you at least 2 feats and a dip outside your main class. Costing actions as well makes it a very expensive proposition for questionable gain.

I'm playing a Hexcrafter Magus with Protective Luck and Soothsayer, and I didn't take Cackle because a Magus doesn't have move actions to spare like a Witch does. I have not been disappointed with my choice. I did have one combat where my offensive capabilities were completely useless (couldn't get through DR, enemy was immune to single-target spells and had energy resistances that negated my AoE spells) so I just stood back and spammed my allies with Protective Luck. Cackle might have made this slightly more efficient, but since every enemy attack had to go through Protective Luck anyway it wouldn't have meaningfully affected the game.

I'm not 100% sure this would be worth a dip anyway, but if you do go for it then I think the action economy saving is the most valuable part.

PS remember that you can't use Protective Luck on yourself.

[Level 20 NPC]

MrCharisma wrote:

...

That's a good point! I still think i'd like to have cackle, maybe investing in a cackling hag's blouse to help a little.

I played a healbot pei zin some time ago and i had a similar problem: to keep my party alive i basically had to always use channel energy with a move action and cast spells with my standard, so my mates understood that i basically couldn't move and played defensively around me.
Also having a good mount with its own initiative to position me around would solve the actual movement problem

[Name Violation]

bodyguard feat, plus some other investments can help

helpful trait to aid for +4
Benevolent armor for more

[MrCharisma]

Name Violation wrote:

bodyguard feat, plus some other investments can help

helpful trait to aid for +4
Benevolent armor for more

Plus GLOVES OF ARCANE STRIKING (only applicable to Arcane casters of course).