^Actually I made a minor mistake above -- Fighter can also get Vital Strike at 6th level, because they can get Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon) at 5th level (does not have to be taken on a Fighter Bonus Combat Feat).
I also noticed that the Startoss Style feat chain explicitly says that the Vital Strike feat chain works with the first hit you get out of an attack when using this style. Now I'm wondering if it's possible to get the Vital Strike feat chain to work with the advanced benefit of Desna's Shooting Star (Divine Fighting Technique) (I'm pretty sure it would have no problem with the basic benefit of this feat). And the prerequisites aren't even huge for either on except that the advanced benefit of Desna's Divine Fighting Technique needs BAB +11 or Sleight of Hand 11 ranks (so before you get there you can stick in Ricochet Toss). This means that it isn't too hard to approximate a WarCraft III Huntress (or a StarCraft Mutalisk if you somehow manage to get reliable on-demand flight).
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If I VMC'd Witch and Hexcrafter, I'd be a White Haired Witch, that gets that Hair Attack instead of Hexes.Maybe an Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter Magus [bVMC Witch[/b] with Slumber Hex arrows? Slumber Hex can be boring effective... so can archery... sleep arrows... not damage, but down and out...What does VMC Witch get you there? You already have Hexes as a Hexcrafter ...?VMC Witch (or for that matter VMC anything) doesn't let you choose an archetype, so this doesn't work.
With respect to Warpriest using the Vital Strike feat chain with any ranged weapon as Sacred Weapon:
Level∙∙∙∙∙∙∙Base Damage∙∙∙∙∙∙Gravity Bow or Enlarge + Pick Up Large Arrows Damage
1∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙1d6∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙1d8
6∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙1d8∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙2d6
6+VS∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙2d8∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙4d6
12∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙1d10∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙2d8
12+IVS∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙3d10∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙6d8
18∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙2d6∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙3d6
18+GVS∙∙∙∙∙∙∙8d6∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙12d6
20∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙2d8∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙3d8
20+GVS∙∙∙∙∙∙∙8d8∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙12d8(*)Or a Fighter who keeps Weapon Training and gets Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon), although in this case the levels at which the feats are gained will be at least 7 for Vital Strike and possibly as early as 11 and 16 for Improved Vital Strike and Greater Vital Strike, respectively.
gravity bow doesnt stack with the warpriest ability or bigger arrows. its base warpriest damage based on current size OR all the size shenanigans, but they dont stack.
"Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type" that ignores all size manipulation
^You sure about that? Because Warpriest has a table for Small and Large Warpriests, with the former doing less damage and the latter doing more damage, and Gravity Bow says "Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is" -- looks to me like it does combine with being a Warpriest. Warpriest says "the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type", but that just says to me that it doesn't matter whether you are using a dagger or a greatsword (or in our case arrows or sling bullets) once you get to a high enough level to equal or exceed the base damage of the weapon.
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Size increases of the wielder (but not the weapon)such as enlarge person will increase which table you use. But virtual size increases do not
Yeah, sacred weapon is a little wonky. It replaces the damage your weapon deals, and it's based on the warpriest size.
Abilities that affect only your weapon wouldn't stack with sacred weapon, you would choose the best of either.
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^You sure about that? Because Warpriest has a table for Small and Large Warpriests, with the former doing less damage and the latter doing more damage, and Gravity Bow says "Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is" -- looks to me like it does combine with being a Warpriest. Warpriest says "the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type", but that just says to me that it doesn't matter whether you are using a dagger or a greatsword (or in our case arrows or sling bullets) once you get to a high enough level to equal or exceed the base damage of the weapon.
Yep. Example; a level 1 warpriest with an oversized impact butchers axe can deal 6d6 with the normal damage or can choose 1d6 from sacred weapon. So the impact and oversized effect base weapon damage but warpriest replaces that damage completely with the damage listed on the table.
Which is also why arsenal chaplin is popular with warpriest archers
Sacred weapon is really to help weapons (favored weapons of deities) with bad damage dice be usable by a warpriest so you can have a thematic character.
Not to min-max your damage higher.
So if you want to go that route, I guess you'd need to worship valani for that sweet gargantuan elemental form. May as well make use of your size by getting that bullrushing weapon modifier (driving) and the feat that does your unarmed damage when your target runs into something while you threaten them(crushing impact), and smashing impact to keep knocking them through walls.
It'd be silly if the gargantuan elemental chose to shoot you with an arrow at point blank range, but it probably fits the requirements of the build request.
I'm pretty sure UnArcaneElection is right. It says you ignore the weapon's type not size. All that says to me is that the weapon's base damage is sacred weapon damage rather than whatever the damage would be for that type of weapon normally. It's a general effect on all warpriests and says nothing about impacting more specific effects like feats or spells. I see how the rest of you are interpreting that rule and it's a valid interpretation, but it's not the only valid interpretation and I tend to side with UAE. Type and size aren't the same thing and that line says nothing about ignoring size manipulation.
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I'm pretty sure UnArcaneElection is right. It says you ignore the weapon's type not size. All that says to me is that the weapon's base damage is sacred weapon damage rather than whatever the damage would be for that type of weapon normally. It's a general effect on all warpriests and says nothing about impacting more specific effects like feats or spells. I see how the rest of you are interpreting that rule and it's a valid interpretation, but it's not the only valid interpretation and I tend to side with UAE. Type and size aren't the same thing and that line says nothing about ignoring size manipulation.
Nope, it's 1 or the other.
The entire damage.Sacred Weapon wrote:
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn't apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage.
Impact wrote:
An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.
The weapon does its damage OR the number based on warpriest. Not warpriest + impact, not warpriest + oversized weapon, just warpriest.
1 or the other, but not combining both.
If you don't believe me, just search the forums, this has been said to death long ago
Weapon size is irrelevant. A level 1 warpriest with a dagger can do a d6 with any size dagger no matter how big or small. Impact wouldn't change that.
The impact ability increases base weapon damage, which warpriest compelling ignores with sacred weapon.
I'm not sure how more people asserting one valid interpretation of those rules invalidates another valid interpretation of those same rules. Nothing you've quoted above has convinced me that it means anything more than "replace the base damage from the weapon table with the warpriest's sacred weapon damage." There's a decent argument that someone might have intended your interpretation, but the rules just don't say that as plainly as you seem to think. Like... you bolded "base weapon damage" in a rules quote, compared it to another rules quote that doesn't say "base weapon damage" in it, then bolded "base weapon damage" in your conclusion. I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove.
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Look, I'm just gonna say it like a jerk.
Be wrong if you want, but don't spread wrong info.
Warpriest says exactly what number to use. Use that or whatever munchkin optimization you want.
What it doesn't say is use this number and manipulate it with other stuff.
Diminutive, tiny, or gargantuan weapons potentially all do the same damage for a warpriest.
Oversized, undersized, proper sized, doesn't matter. Impact makes the weapon count bigger. That's irrelevant. Size or effective size of the weapon doesn't matter, only the size of the warpriest themselves
Name Violation is right. Impact and using a large weapon all impact the weapon's base damage. Sacred weapon is a replacement effect that is completely separate from the weapon's base damage. There may be an argument for enlarge person affecting the weapon's sacred scaling. But that's pushing it
For a divine version of an archer/caster that can add spell effects to an arrow, you can go with half-orc (Sacred Tattoo, Shaman's Apprentice*) oracle (spirit guide; Ancestor mystery) 7**/hinterlander 7/oracle +5/hinterlander +1 and Hierophant 10 for +15 BAB (but access to both divine favor/divine power and heroism) and spell progression as an oracle 19. You don't have as many damaging spells (although the bonus spells from the bonded spirit may help a bit), but are probably stronger at self-buffing.
A possible progression (gaining mythic tiers each even character level) might be:
Ora 1- any two traits; Revelation (Blood of Heroes); Skill Focus (Survival)
Ora 2 (Tier 1)- Champion's Strike (Distant Barrage), Divine Surge (Inspired Spell); Mythic Weapon Training (Bows); Dual Path (Champion)
Ora 3- Extra Revelation (Ancestral Weapon)***
Ora 4 (Tier 2)- Divine Guardian
Ora 5- Eldritch Heritage (Orc bloodline)***
Ora 6 (Tier 3)- Unstoppable Shot; Eldritch Heritage (Mythic)****
Ora 7- Weapon Focus (Bows)***
Hin 1 (Tier 4)- Favored Enemy (+2 Undead), Master Archer (Rapid Shot); Mythic Spellcasting
Hin 2- Deadly Aim
Hin 3 (Tier 5)- Master Archer (Manyshot); Legendary Item (Bow; Returning and Upgradeable***** are probably two of the abilities); Deadly Aim (Mythic)
Hin 4- Quicken Spell
Hin 5 (Tier 6)- Master Archer (Pinpoint Targeting); Mighty Summons
Hin 6- Power Attack
Hin 7 (Tier 7)- Perfect Strike (Champion path ability); Pinpoint Targeting (Mythic)
Ora 8- Maximize Spell
Ora 9 (Tier 8)- Enduring Blessing
Ora 10- Vital Strike
Ora 11 (Tier 9)- Revelation (Spirit of the Warrior); Legendary Item (Minor Artifact; probably add Foe-Biting and Unstoppable as two of the abilities); Vital Strike (Mythic)
Ora 12- Improved Vital Strike
Hin 8 (Tier 10)- Favored Enemy (+4 Evil Outsiders); Longevity
This progression is fairly focused on archery, but with some effort toward summoning and switch-hitting. For a different focus, you can swap out or re-order some of the selected feats and path abilities.
*- to pick up Endurance as a bonus feat
**- IMO, gaining the spirit ability from a bonded spirit (such as Channel from a Life spirit) at 7th character level instead of 14th character level is more impactful than gaining Imbue Arrow at 12th character level instead of 14th character level
***- switch the order of these feats, if desired
****- gain Fearless, Strength of the Beast, and Power of Giants automatically as a sorcerer of character level -2
*****- +X adaptive orc hornbow with whatever other abilities you want and can afford
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Name Violation is right. Impact and using a large weapon all impact the weapon's base damage. Sacred weapon is a replacement effect that is completely separate from the weapon's base damage. There may be an argument for enlarge person affecting the weapon's sacred scaling. But that's pushing it
enlarge person, totally works. that actually changes the warpriests size
you could use the weapons enlarged damage, OR the damage based on warpriest level and current size
Name Violation is right. Impact and using a large weapon all impact the weapon's base damage. Sacred weapon is a replacement effect that is completely separate from the weapon's base damage. There may be an argument for enlarge person affecting the weapon's sacred scaling. But that's pushing itenlarge person, totally works. that actually changes the warpriests size
you could use the weapons enlarged damage, OR the damage based on warpriest level and current size
Gotcha. Seemed a little sus but yeah it all checks out
^I don't think Ancestral Weapon works for what you want for the required Longbow proficiency, because the proficiency is only temporary, so most of the time, you don't qualify for Weapon Focus (Longbow)(*), which makes you not qualify for Hinterlander, so if it works at all, it works for only a few minutes each day.
(*)Minor point: You can't have Weapon Focus (Bows) unless you have Martial Versatility, which requires Fighter 4.
Name Violation is right. Impact and using a large weapon all impact the weapon's base damage. Sacred weapon is a replacement effect that is completely separate from the weapon's base damage. There may be an argument for enlarge person affecting the weapon's sacred scaling. But that's pushing it
I'll grant your point for Gravity Bow/Impact Weapon(*), Warpriest's Sacred Weapon has a table that says what to do, and that is to increase the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon damage for being large.
(*)Given the point about Gravity Bow/Impact Weapon, you don't even have to pick up Large arrows -- the resizing of the arrows to Medium after you fire them won't matter.
Look, I'm just gonna say it like a jerk.
Be wrong if you want, but don't spread wrong info.
Warpriest says exactly what number to use. Use that or whatever munchkin optimization you want.
What it doesn't say is use this number and manipulate it with other stuff.
Diminutive, tiny, or gargantuan weapons potentially all do the same damage for a warpriest.
Oversized, undersized, proper sized, doesn't matter. Impact makes the weapon count bigger. That's irrelevant. Size or effective size of the weapon doesn't matter, only the size of the warpriest themselves
And I'm going to go ahead and say it like a reasonable adult. Nothing you've said proves me wrong. You can assert an alternate interpretation all day, that doesn't make it the only valid interpretation. Sometimes the rules aren't as clear as everyone wants them to be. Sometimes that means there are multiple valid interpretations of the text. You've yet to provide good evidence that your interpretation is the only valid interpretation. Again, there's a good argument that it's the intent, but the rules as they are written do not say what you're asserting. Your enphasis on "weapon" changes nothing. "Type" still doesn't mean "size."
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn't apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage.
See? I can bold words too!
^I don't think Ancestral Weapon works for what you want for the required Longbow proficiency, because the proficiency is only temporary, so most of the time, you don't qualify for Weapon Focus (Longbow)(*), which makes you not qualify for Hinterlander, so if it works at all, it works for only a few minutes each day.
(*)Minor point: You can't have Weapon Focus (Bows) unless you have Martial Versatility, which requires Fighter 4.
The oracle/hinterlander is using Mythic Weapon Training to gain proficiency in all bows, including the orc hornbow, at 2nd level. It also allows Weapon Focus to apply to all bows.
"Mythic Weapon Training (Ex) (Mythic Adventures pg. 23): Select one group of weapons from the list of fighter weapon groups. You gain proficiency with all weapons in this group. If you possess a feat such as Weapon Focus that requires you to choose a kind of weapon, you can instead apply the effects of that feat to all weapons from that weapon group. When wielding a weapon from that group, add a number equal to your tier to your CMD against disarm and sunder attempts made against that weapon. You can select this ability more than once. Each time you select this ability, it applies to a different weapon group."
Ancestral Weapon is to call up a (ghost touch) melee weapon at need.
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Look, I'm just gonna say it like a jerk.
Be wrong if you want, but don't spread wrong info.
Warpriest says exactly what number to use. Use that or whatever munchkin optimization you want.
What it doesn't say is use this number and manipulate it with other stuff.
Diminutive, tiny, or gargantuan weapons potentially all do the same damage for a warpriest.
Oversized, undersized, proper sized, doesn't matter. Impact makes the weapon count bigger. That's irrelevant. Size or effective size of the weapon doesn't matter, only the size of the warpriest themselvesAnd I'm going to go ahead and say it like a reasonable adult. Nothing you've said proves me wrong. You can assert an alternate interpretation all day, that doesn't make it the only valid interpretation. Sometimes the rules aren't as clear as everyone wants them to be. Sometimes that means there are multiple valid interpretations of the text. You've yet to provide good evidence that your interpretation is the only valid interpretation. Again, there's a good argument that it's the intent, but the rules as they are written do not say what you're asserting. Your enphasis on "weapon" changes nothing. "Type" still doesn't mean "size."
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn't apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage.See? I can bold words too!
right. damage based on level, not weapon type.
means instead of whatever damage, use the listed damage on the chart.you miss the point. the word replace means replace, not cherry pick.
Q: how much damage does a dagger do?
A: 1d4
Q: how much damage does a large dagger do?
A: 1d6
Q how much damage does a huge dagger do?
A: 1d8
now how much damage would all these daggers do in the hands of a 5th level medium warpriest in your interpritation?
what if the warpriest enlarges?
^I don't think Ancestral Weapon works for what you want for the required Longbow proficiency, because the proficiency is only temporary, so most of the time, you don't qualify for Weapon Focus (Longbow)(*), which makes you not qualify for Hinterlander, so if it works at all, it works for only a few minutes each day.
(*)Minor point: You can't have Weapon Focus (Bows) unless you have Martial Versatility, which requires Fighter 4.
The oracle/hinterlander is using Mythic Weapon Training to gain proficiency in all bows, including the orc hornbow, at 2nd level. It also allows Weapon Focus to apply to all bows.
{. . .}
Okay, gotcha. Mythic was something I have tended to avoid apart from the initial reading (and before that the Playtest reading, which I actually paid more attention to). So I missed/forgot about where it allows what you're talking about.
Now, my favorite non-Mythic cheese involving Hinterlander is this Human Ranger 2/Cleric (Foundation of Faith, Separatist) of Erastil 3/Hinterlander x (except replace the 9th level floating feat with Clustered Shots, and all level-up ability score increases go to Wisdom), but since that wasn't designed for [i]the particular cheese of this thread[/url], I'll just leave a link to it (although you have to admit that Imbue Arrow with the right spell can produce quite a lot of damage in one shot, just not very many times each day).
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Look, I'm just gonna say it like a jerk.
Be wrong if you want, but don't spread wrong info.
I'm curious how you thought that would work.
When's the last time someone came up to you and said:
... and then you turned around and said:
...?
Because you're right, you did say it like a jerk.
right. damage based on level, not weapon type.
means instead of whatever damage, use the listed damage on the chart.
you miss the point. the word replace means replace, not cherry pick.
Really? That's odd. I don't see the word replace at all. Let's look again...
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn't apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage.
Yeah, it doesn't say replace at all... That's funny because I thought we were discussing the rules as written not as we imagine them. Anyway...
Q: how much damage does a dagger do?
A: 1d4
Q: how much damage does a large dagger do?
A: 1d6
Q how much damage does a huge dagger do?
A: 1d8
now how much damage would all these daggers do in the hands of a 5th level medium warpriest in your interpritation?
what if the warpriest enlarges?
1d8, 2d6, and 3d6. There are several charts. Not sure why you didn't use them. Now I have a question for you. If type means size, then does a 20th level fighter lose access to his Weapon Mastery class feature when he becomes large and the "greatsword" he picked for this feature becomes a "large greatsword"? Do they need to take Weapon Focus (greatsword) and Weapon Focus (large greatsword)?
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Look, I'm just gonna say it like a jerk.
Be wrong if you want, but don't spread wrong info.
I'm curious how you thought that would work.
When's the last time someone came up to you and said:
... and then you turned around and said:
...?
Because you're right, you did say it like a jerk.
Because I'm self aware enough to know I have a lot of mental issues, including rage disorders and ocd, but I'm powerless to do anything about them
So if I know I'm acting like a jerk, I admit it.
Believe me if could not do it, I would.
When things are explained out in detail maybe I can learn stuff. When people just say "nu-uh hu-uh I can bold words too" I lose my sh!7.
Then 6 weeks from now the next person asks the same thing, points to threads like this and goes "see, see"
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Now I have a question for you. If type means size, then does a 20th level fighter lose access to his Weapon Mastery class feature when he becomes large and the "greatsword" he picked for this feature becomes a "large greatsword"? Do they need to take Weapon Focus (greatsword) and Weapon Focus (large greatsword)?
Type doesn't mean size
Type (in this context anyway) means weapon damage.What exactly do you think "Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type." means then?
My reading is *not weapon type* means ignore the weapon damage completely. Small, large, whatever. Ignore it.
Based on warpries level. There's a chart. The chart is based on warpriest size.
It doesn't say use large weapon chart. It says use warpriest chart. Weapon damage is based on the size of the weapon. But it says I'm place of the weapon damage, use number on chart.
Where does anything say use number on chart then manipulate it?
So if type=damage, let's see what it says then
"Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon damage."
Or let's just replace type with a weapon. Let's replace type with greatsword.
"Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the (any size) greatsword."
I don't see anything that implies that's not exactly how that works.
(although you have to admit that Imbue Arrow with the right spell can produce quite a lot of damage in one shot, just not very many times each day).
Yes. Which is laid out in my post last week.
The oracle/hinterlander isn't optimized to the same degree for spell damage, but Deadly Aim + Deadly Aim (Mythic)* + Vital Strike/Improved Vital Strike + Vital Strike (Mythic)** can stack a decent chunk of damage on a single arrow using an orc hornbow: 2d6 (hornbow) +4d6 (Improved Vital Strike) +36 (Deadly Aim [Mythic] + Vital Strike [Mythic]) +(3 x Str mod***) +(3 x enhancement bonus); plus any other applicable bonuses to damage.
The ganzi arcanist/eldritch knight/arcane archer can probably have both Deadly Aim + Deadly Aim (Mythic) + Vital Strike/Improved Vital Strike + Vital Strike (Mythic) (using Mythic Weapon Training instead of a feat to gain proficiency in orc hornbow) and the Intensified + Maximized Mythic cone of cold using Channel Power (330 cold in a 60 ft cone, can be changed to acid, electricity, or fire with Energy Conversion) with Imbue Arrow.
*- increases damage to +3 for each -1 penalty on attack rolls
**- "Whenever you use Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike, multiply the Strength bonus, magic bonus, and other bonuses that would normally be multiplied on a critical hit by the number of weapon damage dice you roll for that feat."
***- with adaptive on the orc hornbow or up to the Str rating
What exactly do you think "Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type." means then?
I think it means you replace the weapon's base damage with sacred weapon damage regardless of the weapon's type as I've already said. I see no explicit mention of weapon size. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to read it as having something to do with the weapon's size, but I do believe that's being inferred from suspected intent rather than something that is explicitly stated.
the warpriest damage output is somewhat related to the monk's unarmed strike.
what matter is the character's level & size. not the weapon used.
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What exactly do you think "Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type." means then?I think it means you replace the weapon's base damage with sacred weapon damage regardless of the weapon's type as I've already said. I see no explicit mention of weapon size. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to read it as having something to do with the weapon's size, but I do believe that's being inferred from suspected intent rather than something that is explicitly stated.
and pathfinder is a rules explicit system. you cant do anything unless the rules say you can
the rules dont say humans dont have bunny ears, but its not reasonable to think they do.the rules do say humans have a land speed
the rules dont say a human doesnt have a fly speed, so it must have one. same logic.
what is weapon type damage? other than bludgeon/piercing/slashing?
weapons deal damage based on size.
sacred weapon deals damage based on the warpriest size, not weapon size. the size of the weapon is irrelevant to the sacred weapon ability. if it explicitly said weapon size then it would work, but it says warpriest size.
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try it like this.
assume level 8 warpriest, and a dagger.
the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type.
lets pug in the numbers in place of the words to clarify
the weapon damage is (d8) and not the (d4).
with a large dagger it would read
the weapon damage is (d8) and not the (d6)
not d8 + oversized dagger = 2d6
You can stop repeating yourself... I already understand your position; I just disagree with it. Your conclusion assumes "weapon type" == "weapon damage". All I'm doing is not making that assumption and instead taking "weapon type" to mean "weapon type". Everything else flows from the rest of the rules as written.
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You can stop repeating yourself... I already understand your position; I just disagree with it. Your conclusion assumes "weapon type" == "weapon damage". All I'm doing is not making that assumption and instead taking "weapon type" to mean "weapon type". Everything else flows from the rest of the rules as written.
please show me the book definition of weapon type (not sarcastic, serious inquiry)
I'm... not sure how to take that seriously. I wasn't implying it was a defined game term. That's why earlier I pointed to other uses of "type" in relation to weapon and asked you if size mattered. You made some claim about context as though my interpretation of type can't be used consistently in all those contexts and dismissed it. Does the book say somewhere that "type" means "damage" in relation to weapons?
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I'm... not sure how to take that seriously. I wasn't implying it was a defined game term. That's why earlier I pointed to other uses of "type" in relation to weapon and asked you if size mattered. You made some claim about context as though my interpretation of type can't be used consistently in all those contexts and dismissed it. Does the book say somewhere that "type" means "damage" in relation to weapons?
Type: Weapons are classified according to the type of damage they deal: B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing. Some monsters may be resistant or immune to attacks from certain types of weapons.
Some weapons deal damage of multiple types. If a weapon causes two types of damage, the type it deals is not half one type and half another; all damage caused is of both types. Therefore, a creature would have to be immune to both types of damage to ignore any of the damage caused by such a weapon.
In other cases, a weapon can deal either of two types of damage. In a situation where the damage type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to deal with such a weapon.
thats the only listing for type in equipment i find link
Weapons are classified according to the type of damage they deal
thats about it.
And that clearly doesn't work in the contexts of Weapon Focus or the Fighter's capstone, so that's probably not what it means in the context of Sacred Weapon, but even if it were I don't think that would mean size has anything to do with it.
No matter how you look at Sacred Weapon... it's probably not the answer to "Maximising single arrow archer damage"... so who gives a $#!+... give it a rest, already.
At level 19, it's 2D6, same as a HornBow for everyone else at level 1...
Warpriests don't even care what the weapon is... if they have Weapon Focus for it, they can use the damage from the table based on the current size of the Warpriest... daggers, greatswords, butchering axes, hornbows... literally doesn't matter... small weapons, medium weapons, large weapons, huge weapons, Impact Gargantuan weapons... doesn't matter (other than penalties for incorrectly sized weapons)...
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OK, the ganzi arcanist/eldritch knight/arcane archer optimized for both Mythic Vital Strike and spell damage:
Ganzi (Weaponplay oddity) arcanist (blood arcanist) 6/eldritch knight 3/arcane archer 4/eldritch knight +7; Archmage 10 (gain one tier every even level)
Arc 1- Magical Knack (Arcanist), one other trait; Bloodline (Orc); Point Blank Shot
Arc 2 (Tier 1)- Archmage Arcana (Wild Arcana), Champion's Strike (Distant Barrage); Mythic Weapon Training (Bows); Dual Path (Champion)
Arc 3- Precise Shot
Arc 4 (Tier2)- Mythic Spellcasting
Arc 5- Arcanist Exploit (Quick Study); Deadly Aim
Arc 6 (Tier 3)- Crafting Mastery; Deadly Aim (Mythic)
EK 1- Intensified Spell, Weapon Focus (Bows)
EK 2 (Tier 4)- Unstoppable Shot
EK 3- Vital Strike
AA 1 (Tier 5)- Energy Conversion; Vital Strike (Mythic)
AA 2- Extra Arcanist Exploit (Metamixing)
AA 3 (Tier 6)- Channel Power
AA 4- Quicken Spell
EK 4 (Tier 7)- Enduring Armor; Mythic Spell Lore
EK 5- Improved Vital Strike
EK 6 (Tier 8)- Limitless Range
EK 7- Maximize Spell
EK 8 (Tier 9)- Arcane Metamastery; Extra Path Ability (Mirror Dodge)
EK 9- Greater Vital Strike
EK 10 (Tier 10)- Longevity
Baseline single shot arrow damage at 20th level with Mythic heroism up, using a +1 adaptive orc hornbow enhanced with Mythic greater magic weapon (+4 and one of anarchic, axiomatic, holy, or unholy) and normal arrows: 2d6 +6d6 (Greater Vital Strike) +16* (enhancement) +2d6 (alignment) +(4 x Str mod)* +1d6 (cold, electricity, or fire from Enhance Arrows) +16* (morale from Mythic heroism) +60* (Deadly Aim**) with the option of using Imbue Arrow to add 330 (cold from Intensifed Maximized Mythic cone of cold using Channel Power; affects target and 60 ft cone, save for half; can change damage to acid, electricity, or fire with Energy Conversion). A Quickened true strike and a use of mythic power for Surge can add +20+1d12 on the attack roll, if you're worried about hitting.
*- damage multiplied by 4 because of Vital Strike (Mythic) and Greater Vital Strike
**- -5 on attack rolls for +15 on damage rolls with Deadly Aim (Mythic)
Warpriests don't even care what the weapon is... if they have Weapon Focus for it, they can use the damage from the table based on the current size of the Warpriest... daggers, greatswords, butchering axes, hornbows... literally doesn't matter... small weapons, medium weapons, large weapons, huge weapons, Impact Gargantuan weapons... doesn't matter (other than penalties for incorrectly sized weapons)...
No, Warpriests don't care what the weapon's type is. There's no mention of not caring what size the weapon is or what spells are cast on it or what enchantments it has. That's sort of the point of contention, so I'm not sure why you think what you just did settles anything.
Anyway, you're right that sacred weapon isn't likely a significant contribution to maximizing single arrow damage potential and that this has been off-topic, so...
EK 1- Intensified Spell, Weapon Focus (Bows)
I'm pretty sure you take Weapon Focus (shortbow) and Weapon Focus (longbow) separately (at least that's what the prerequisites for Arcane Archer imply) neither of which would apply to the hornbow, and Weapon Focus (hornbow) wouldn't qualify you for Arcane Archer. So, you blow a feat on an extra Weapon Focus you don't need, or you don't use a hornbow (unless maybe I'm missing something from your Mythic tiers; I've only glanced at the Mythic Rules).
That's a fairly absurd amount of damage Dragonchess. Well done.
I'm pretty sure you take Weapon Focus (shortbow) and Weapon Focus (longbow) separately
DCP covered this higher up this page (link if you need it.)
The way I see it, Warpriest has damage granted by a deity that they can use in place of their weapon's damage... if they choose.
If your Gargantuan Impact Greatsword does more than Scared Weapon damage for a Medium Warpriest, then don't use Sacred Weapon damage... it's your choice.
AoN:
Sacred Weapon (Su): At 1st level, weapons wielded by a warpriest are charged with the power of his faith. In addition to the favored weapon of his deity, the warpriest can designate a weapon as a sacred weapon by selecting that weapon with the Weapon Focus feat; if he has multiple Weapon Focus feats, this ability applies to all of them. Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon’s base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn’t apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage.
That's a fairly absurd amount of damage Dragonchess. Well done.
I'm pretty sure you take Weapon Focus (shortbow) and Weapon Focus (longbow) separatelyDCP covered this higher up this page (link if you need it.)
So Mythic thing like I thought. Cool thanks!
Then I would consider adding a level of Hooded Champion Ranger (and adjusting accordingly probably by taking one fewer AA or EK levels) so that you can resolve bow attacks against touch AC and focus on Str for more damage rather than needing a lot of Dex to hit.
The way I see it, Warpriest has damage granted by a deity that they can use in place of their weapon's damage... if they choose.
If your Gargantuan Impact Greatsword does more than Scared Weapon damage for a Medium Warpriest, then don't use Sacred Weapon damage... it's your choice.
And on some level I agree with you, but I don't see a good RAW argument to apply flaming and not impact. I see lots of authorial intent arguments (but not systemic intent arguments), and I see reasons a DM might decide that "makes sense" (which is fine but not a RAW argument).
Arrow Champion Swashbuckler/Hooded Champion Ranger is a swell combination... I don't know if it actually helps with maximum damages all that much... but it makes for a good archer... and one of my favorite polearm builds, actually.
Any way to add Lantern Lighter's Stunning/Paralyzing Light thing to Favored Eneny/Instant Enemy, and Gravity Bow/HornBow/Vital Strike/Deadly Aim/Named Bullet?
Conductive HornBow and a ranged touch spell with the light descriptor? I was hoping Aasimar Heavenly Radiance shennigans could be useful, maybe...?
Arrow Champion Swashbuckler/Hooded Champion Ranger is a swell combination... I don't know if it actually helps with maximum damages all that much...
Well, it largely eliminates your need for Dex, so the impact on damage depends on how much Str you would otherwise sacrifice to make sure you hit consistently. At the very least it's 3 damage (12 with Mythic Vital Strike) if you were going to use resources on Dex and Str equally. If getting enough Dex to have the same accuracy against normal AC would have resulted in you having less than Dex-5 (from your level up bonuses) Strength, then it's more. It's not a lot compared to the damage you're adding from whatever spell you're casting, but it also doesn't require you to sacrifice much damage. Though not being intimately familiar with the build, the loss of a level of casting progression might be insurmountable for some other reason.
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And on some level I agree with you, but I don't see a good RAW argument to apply flaming and not impact. I see lots of authorial intent arguments (but not systemic intent arguments), and I see reasons a DM might decide that "makes sense" (which is fine but not a RAW argument).
The problem is now ANY oversized weapon deals 2d6 minimum at 5. Which is incorrect.
Since bigger dagger = bigger damage by this logic.So large daggers do 2d6?
Or a medium warpriest can use a huge dagger for 3d6 at 5th? Since it's 2 size categories bigger than medium? While an appropriate sized greatsword is still only 2d6?
People seem to be under the impression you take the Sacred Weapon damage for the Warpriest's size... then increase that damage according to the weapon's size.
But Sacred Weapon doesn't say that's how it works... so that's not how it works... at all... ever...
Oh, and Sanguine Angel can use Str to attack with bows if they want, which helps them be less MAD. Since Composite Bows allow Str to damage.
I just haven't found a way to use Furious Huntress that satifies me... the prerequisites make it hard to dedicate towards archery...
Ranger/Slayer taking Imp Shield Bash, Iron Will, and Weapon Focus Longsword in a row by level 5... using the Archery RCS? Or Nature Fang Druid at level 7? Fighter to 5 for Weapon Training... do you pick bows because archer, or blades because Queen's Sword will continue it? Dreadnought Barbarian because Erinyes Fury will count towards your rage?
Is Sanguine Angel just a dip for Furious Huntress?
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That's a fairly absurd amount of damage Dragonchess. Well done.
I'm pretty sure you take Weapon Focus (shortbow) and Weapon Focus (longbow) separatelyDCP covered this higher up this page (link if you need it.)So Mythic thing like I thought. Cool thanks!
Then I would consider adding a level of Hooded Champion Ranger (and adjusting accordingly probably by taking one fewer AA or EK levels) so that you can resolve bow attacks against touch AC and focus on Str for more damage rather than needing a lot of Dex to hit.
The problem with adding a non-arcanist level is that then the character loses 9th-level spells, without replacing two of the feats for Favored Prestige Class/Prestigious Spellcaster. Since the progression is +17 BAB, plus the fact that Weapon Focus and Mythic heroism (increases bonus to +4 and includes damage rolls) counteract the -5 from Deadly Aim, it's not like the character should have a lot of trouble hitting with just enhancement bonuses, Dex, greater bracers of archery, etc.; even before using Surge and/or Quickened true strike. With the additional ability score increases from mythic tiers (+2 each even tier), you can probably add +4 or +6 to starting Str as well as using a belt of physical might (Str, Dex) +6 or belt of physical perfection +6, so it's not like Str is going to be hurting too much (assuming a 12 Str to start and only +4 Str from mythic, that's still a 22 Str with a belt for [+6 multiplied by 4] or +24 damage using Vital Strike (Mythic)/Greater Vital Strike).
I suppose switching out a feat for Endurance and going arcanist 6/hinterlander 8/eldritch knight 6 for +15 BAB and Pinpoint Targeting/Pinpoint Targeting (Mythic) could be an option, but then you lose Greater Vital Strike.
Insane. And amazing. Well done, on all accounts.