My fix for both the Ninja and the Paladin has been to combine them into one class. Full BAB, all good saves, good skills, Lay on Hands/Smite, Ki/Sneak Attack... it's better, but still meh.
That seems extremely excessive. It's true that the Paladin could have more customization but it's already a strong class. How can a literal Gestalt be "still meh"?
Isn't the ninja already a better rogue and even monk?
I find Paladins to be stifling. While I like Inquisitors and Warpriests quite a bit, I just cannot get into the Paladin. For whatever reason, I see a dead-end road every time I look at the class. It's kept me from exploring the AntiPaladin class, too... that's how much I dislike Paladins.
And when considering how much I absolutely love the choices gestalt has to offer. Paladin being involved actually subtracts from available choices. I know, disgusting. Freaking Paladins...
But they DO give the Ninja full BAB, all good saves, some spellcasting, Smite, and most importantly Lay on Hands/Mercy. And that CAN be useful to a Ninja, IF you can put up with all the Paladin BS.
So you have issues with the roleplaying aspect of the Paladin class and your answer is to give them an absurd mechanical boost?
Unless I've completely misunderstood you and you mean that during gestalt games this is what you would do, I can't stress enough how bad of an idea it is to combine these two fully functional classes into one. Compare it with similar classes (Cavalier or Vigilante) and you'd see how your Ninjadin blows them out of the water.
Whoa. It's just gestalt. Things are powerful when combined. I wasn't saying that is a fix for either class... just at least gestalt'ed together, the two classes have enough to work with assuming you can get past the Paladin crap. But a Holy Ninja is something that can be worked with, I think... looks decent on paper, at least. I still wouldn't play it because I cannot get past the Paladin BS, personally.
Whoa. It's just gestalt. Things are powerful when combined. I wasn't saying that is a fix for either class...
But you did. Word for word. Which is why you got a rather strong response.
My fix for both the Ninja and the Paladin has been to combine them into one class.
Ranger needs some decent alternatives to Favoured Enemy and Favoured Terrain. It's fine when it applies, but that relies on a compliant GM. There are archetypes that eliminate it, but you might not want that. It could do worse than an AAT/AWT style option package.
Whoa. It's just gestalt. Things are powerful when combined. I wasn't saying that is a fix for either class...But you did. Word for word. Which is why you got a rather strong response.
My fix for both the Ninja and the Paladin has been to combine them into one class.
Sorry, I meant gestalt isn't the fix most people are looking for. Gestalt isn't nearly as popular as I wish it were.
Ranger needs some decent alternatives to Favoured Enemy and Favoured Terrain. It's fine when it applies, but that relies on a compliant GM. There are archetypes that eliminate it, but you might not want that. It could do worse than an AAT/AWT style option package.
That sounds like a Sanctified Slayer. Or just a Slayer if spells don't matter. Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain is kind of a Ranger's bread and butter. There's also the Guide or Freebooter Ranger if you don't like Favored Enemy. If it's just Favored Terrain you dislike, there's always the Infiltrator archetype too.
I've always been vastly underwhelmed when playing a Witch and their spell list. It never feels fully thematic, I think more illusion and necromancy spells would help it and far more dips into druidic spells as well.
Ranger needs some decent alternatives to Favoured Enemy and Favoured Terrain. It's fine when it applies, but that relies on a compliant GM. There are archetypes that eliminate it, but you might not want that. It could do worse than an AAT/AWT style option package.That sounds like a Sanctified Slayer. Or just a Slayer if spells don't matter. Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain is kind of a Ranger's bread and butter. There's also the Guide or Freebooter Ranger if you don't like Favored Enemy. If it's just Favored Terrain you dislike, there's always the Infiltrator archetype too.
The pet is also quite an important thing; the [sanctified] slayer doesn't get it at all, end both Guide and Freebooter lose it too. And the Infiltrator doubles down on the Favoured Enemy, so you can't even combine it with something else that loses FE.
The pet is also quite an important thing; the [sanctified] slayer doesn't get it at all, end both Guide and Freebooter lose it too. And the Infiltrator doubles down on the Favoured Enemy, so you can't even combine it with something else that loses FE.Ranger needs some decent alternatives to Favoured Enemy and Favoured Terrain. It's fine when it applies, but that relies on a compliant GM. There are archetypes that eliminate it, but you might not want that. It could do worse than an AAT/AWT style option package.That sounds like a Sanctified Slayer. Or just a Slayer if spells don't matter. Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain is kind of a Ranger's bread and butter. There's also the Guide or Freebooter Ranger if you don't like Favored Enemy. If it's just Favored Terrain you dislike, there's always the Infiltrator archetype too.
Animal Domain for Sanctified Slayer(The Sanctified Slayer is just a really damn good substitute for a Ranger). If the pet is that important, play a Hunter instead(Has mechanics more interesting to someone who really wants a pet)? You can also pick up Animal Ally as a 2 feat deal.
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Look, the Advanced Class Guide literally cut the Ranger into two parts that do its components better. The Slayer is a better "specific foe killer" while the Hunter is a better "nature's warden/animal friend" style character. Between the two of them, they invalidate the Ranger's entire existence.
In Gestalt games I like to play Hunter/Slayers and I walk around claiming I'm a ranger.
Look, the Advanced Class Guide literally cut the Ranger into two parts that do its components better. The Slayer is a better "specific foe killer" while the Hunter is a better "nature's warden/animal friend" style character. Between the two of them, they invalidate the Ranger's entire existence.
In Gestalt games I like to play Hunter/Slayers and I walk around claiming I'm a ranger.
Doesn't really help if you like both halves and want them to be combined cohesively (like the Ranger is supposed to) without some of the specific baggage and issues the Ranger has.
But I think that's a common problem Paizo had. They'd release fixes to problems with the core system, but then they'd make those fixes super specific, so they don't always work as fixes if there's some combination of old ideas that aren't supported in the new framework.
Stuff like Rangers/Hunters/Slayers.
Stuff like Dex to Damage having really specific options rather than general choices, or the alternatives to Dex to Damage being class specific rather than general.
Stuff like Ninjas and Stalker Vigilantes and Slayers and Unchained Rogues all being variations/upgrades/replacements for the core rogue, but all of them missing something that keeps them from really fulfilling that brief.
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I've always been vastly underwhelmed when playing a Witch and their spell list. It never feels fully thematic, I think more illusion and necromancy spells would help it and far more dips into druidic spells as well.
On that subject, it would be nice if patrons were a little more impactful. It's good they can give access to spells not normally on the witch list, but their only effect being spells known means you're likely to forget who your patron even is except at level up. I could see being able to cast patron spells spontaneously to make it feel a bit more present.
I've always been vastly underwhelmed when playing a Witch and their spell list. It never feels fully thematic, I think more illusion and necromancy spells would help it and far more dips into druidic spells as well.On that subject, it would be nice if patrons were a little more impactful. It's good they can give access to spells not normally on the witch list, but their only effect being spells known means you're likely to forget who your patron even is except at level up. I could see being able to cast patron spells spontaneously to make it feel a bit more present.
Yeah, it'd be nice if there was some benefit to receiving a spell already on the witch list and something like that could help.
Yeah, being able to do the Cleric Domain thing with Witch patron spells would be cool.