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How overpowered would it be if they could walk through walls?
And then still interact with things on the other side?
Pretty darned OP.
Note the level of the spell Ethereal Jaunt, and its status as Uncommon.
So the Spiritualist from PF1 has a Phantom that can move through walls and the like, can the Phantom Eidolon do the same? It has the ethereal and phantom trait, I was not sure if that allowed them to walk through walls.
How overpowered would it be if they could walk through walls?
You are thinking of incorporeal, which they are not. That kind of trick is the sort of thing PF2 did not keep around from PF1. I can see why- I know I had an invisible phantom phasing through doors to check the other side a lot.
I do wish they got powers to become incorporeal, but by default, they are as solid as any other eidolon, and honestly that's a good thing for balance purposes.
There's massive design space though to grant the ability to make them incorporeal via feats
That just seems sad, a ghost that cannot go through walls is not much of a ghost at all.
All eidolon types won't be identical to corresponding monster/mythological creature. Doing so would be game breaking.
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That just seems sad, a ghost that cannot go through walls is not much of a ghost at all.All eidolon types won't be identical to corresponding monster/mythological creature. Doing so would be game breaking.
I generally agree. But on the other hand, the dragon eidolon can end up as a huge, flying creature with a 20d6 breath weapon. (Which is to say, a dragon in all but name.) Even at 20th level the phantom never gets incorporeality or many other abilities you'd think something called a phantom would get.
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I generally agree. But on the other hand, the dragon eidolon can end up as a huge, flying creature with a 20d6 breath weapon. (Which is to say, a dragon in all but name.) Even at 20th level the phantom never gets incorporeality or many other abilities you'd think something called a phantom would get.That just seems sad, a ghost that cannot go through walls is not much of a ghost at all.All eidolon types won't be identical to corresponding monster/mythological creature. Doing so would be game breaking.
Full incorporeality seems like a natural succession to Flickering Evolution. I'm not surprised that it isn't in the playtest document, though, as it would only apply to the phantom and certainly be higher level.
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Full incorporeality seems like a natural succession to Flickering Evolution. I'm not surprised that it isn't in the playtest document, though, as it would only apply to the phantom and certainly be higher level.I generally agree. But on the other hand, the dragon eidolon can end up as a huge, flying creature with a 20d6 breath weapon. (Which is to say, a dragon in all but name.) Even at 20th level the phantom never gets incorporeality or many other abilities you'd think something called a phantom would get.That just seems sad, a ghost that cannot go through walls is not much of a ghost at all.All eidolon types won't be identical to corresponding monster/mythological creature. Doing so would be game breaking.
*Points finger skyward* To the Evolution Suggestion thread!
What if Phantoms could be manifested with a single action?
What if it could manifested at range?
Being able to quickly "pop" almost anywhere would be thematic and useful.
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What if Phantoms could be manifested with a single action?
What if it could manifested at range?
Being able to quickly "pop" almost anywhere would be thematic and useful.
This is equivalent to giving the Eidolon an insane number of extra actions.
Remember, there is a distinct action cost associated with moving a character from point A to point B, and adding "distance" to manifesting is equivalent to granting free actions to stride to the Eidolon...
...PLUS giving it access to a teleportation effect.
Its an absolutely massive power boost.
What is they had the ability to spend one minute to gain the Incorporeal trait?
The Ghost cannot manipulate things when she passes through walls, but would be good on spying on something on the other side. This seems like it would have comparable utility to a familiar with share senses. In fact it would be better in regards to time (share senses you trade 10 minutes of focus for 1 minute of viewing) but it would be worse in regards to sneaking around. The Phantom is not invisible and much more likely to be noticed than a bug/rat/bird familiar.
Share Senses (the summoner version) is an at-will action, not a focus spell. Share Senses (the familiar version) is an action that can be used once every ten minutes, not a focus spell.
It looks like PF2 got rid of the "does not make noise" rule from incorporeal, so no more casting Invisibility for unbeatable stealth.
What if Phantoms could be manifested with a single action?
What if it could manifested at range?
Being able to quickly "pop" almost anywhere would be thematic and useful.This is equivalent to giving the Eidolon an insane number of extra actions.
Remember, there is a distinct action cost associated with moving a character from point A to point B, and adding "distance" to manifesting is equivalent to granting free actions to stride to the Eidolon...
...PLUS giving it access to a teleportation effect.
Its an absolutely massive power boost.
You still have to manifest them,which costs action(s), that are normally prepaid during down time.
Maybe limit it to a Strides worth of distance from the summoner.They already have a teleporting effect in manifesting them back to your side from wherever they are on the field.
Teleporting away is more powerful to be sure, but the point is to give them some distinctive power of their own.
Even just adding a Stride to the manifesting
could add a nice boom, zoom, in your face effect.
What about lowering the time it takes to manifest?
Making it one action means it could be readied, usable during combat, and a way to kite opponents.
I keep rereading the text, but I'm still not clear if you need to manifest to dismiss an Eidolon.
Do you?
The only Uncommon Spell I've had completely ruin a dungeon so far as a GM is Ethereal Jaunt.
An "effective" incorporeal ghost at low levels is plot breakingly powerful and out of line with balanced options at that tier of play.