Currently written it's better than the 9th level Meteor Swarm. Range of 500 feet is too good it seems.
Better at what? Meteor Swarm deals objectively more damage to any relevant number of targets, with the same potential threat range. Its less friendly toward allies, but the gap in damage is not small.
Horrid Wilting may have superior narrative potency in some cases in its ability to hit a larger number of non-encounter relevant foes, but I don't see that as an issue requiring errata when we're talking about 8th and 9th level spells.
Eclips burst is 8d10+8d4 (64 damage)
Horrid wilting deals 10d10 (55 damage)
Meteor Swarm deals 6d10 + 14d6 (82 damage)
So low damage, big size. Seems fine.
The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
55 damage for an 8th level spell slot is....not very much.
To a CR 15 creature you're dealing at most like a 1/4" of it's HP, assuming it fails the save, which isn't reliable.
Sure, horrid wilting is good for killing that whole village of peasants over there. Less good for actually fighting things that your character would find a challenge.
55 damage for an 8th level spell slot is....not very much.
To a CR 15 creature you're dealing at most like a 1/4" of it's HP, assuming it fails the save, which isn't reliable.
Sure, horrid wilting is good for killing that whole village of peasants over there. Less good for actually fighting things that your character would find a challenge.
You can choose your targets. Most of the area effect spells you can't.
The range of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets. It just seems too good.
The fact that Horrid Wilting is better at depopulating cities is completely irrelevant from a game balance perspective.
Encounter design only considers the possibility of so many level relevant foes, and considering that there is no functional difference in how many of those foes either Horrid Wilting or Meteor Swarm can hit.
And Meteor Swarm hits those foes harder.
And Meteor Swarm hits those foes harder.
Only partially true. Only targets that are in the ten foot center radius.
The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.
How often to you fight 7+ creatures that are standing 20+' away from each other?
Because that is how many you need to fight for Horrid Wilting to deal more than Meteor Swarm. (They are about equal at around 6).
I mean, yea, it's a better spell in certain circumstances. You need to destroy an army of Ents, go Horrid Wilting. But most of the time, Meteor Swam is better.
Only partially true. Only targets that are in the ten foot center radius.
And Meteor Swarm hits those foes harder.
Yeah, of four separately targeted meteors.
I've not seen any encounter in any of the Adventure paths I've run in first or second edition where you couldn't hit every enemy in the encounter for full damage.
Its not a practical limitation.
The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.How often to you fight 7+ creatures that are standing 20+' away from each other?
Because that is how many you need to fight for Horrid Wilting to deal more than Meteor Swarm. (They are about equal at around 6).
I mean, yea, it's a better spell in certain circumstances. You need to destroy an army of Ents, go Horrid Wilting. But most of the time, Meteor Swam is better.
Meteor Swarm is best against fighting a few high level baddies in a very wide open area. It seems like most of the other times I would go with Wilting, especially in dungeons, fighting large armies, in urban areas where you can't nuke the town. etc.. If not knowing the situation I'll take this spell over Swarm any day of the week.
Meteor Swarm is best against fighting a few high level baddies in a very wide open area. It seems like most of the other times I would go with Wilting, especially in dungeons, fighting large armies, in urban areas where you can't nuke the town. etc..The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.How often to you fight 7+ creatures that are standing 20+' away from each other?
Because that is how many you need to fight for Horrid Wilting to deal more than Meteor Swarm. (They are about equal at around 6).
I mean, yea, it's a better spell in certain circumstances. You need to destroy an army of Ents, go Horrid Wilting. But most of the time, Meteor Swam is better.
At which point you've made our case. There are some scenarios where Horrid Wilting has advantages, but in any scenario where you're fighting a limited number of foes in the open Meteor Swarm is strictly better.
At which point you've made our case. There are some scenarios where Horrid Wilting has advantages, but in any scenario where you're fighting a limited number of foes in the open Meteor Swarm is strictly better.Meteor Swarm is best against fighting a few high level baddies in a very wide open area. It seems like most of the other times I would go with Wilting, especially in dungeons, fighting large armies, in urban areas where you can't nuke the town. etc..The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.How often to you fight 7+ creatures that are standing 20+' away from each other?
Because that is how many you need to fight for Horrid Wilting to deal more than Meteor Swarm. (They are about equal at around 6).
I mean, yea, it's a better spell in certain circumstances. You need to destroy an army of Ents, go Horrid Wilting. But most of the time, Meteor Swam is better.
Wilting is the best choice 80-90% time though. If I don't know the situation you have to go with Wilting because it's the better spell. Meteor Swarm is a one trick pony.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wilting is the best choice 80-90% time though. If I don't know the situation you have to go with Wilting because it's the better spell. Meteor Swarm is a one trick pony.At which point you've made our case. There are some scenarios where Horrid Wilting has advantages, but in any scenario where you're fighting a limited number of foes in the open Meteor Swarm is strictly better.Meteor Swarm is best against fighting a few high level baddies in a very wide open area. It seems like most of the other times I would go with Wilting, especially in dungeons, fighting large armies, in urban areas where you can't nuke the town. etc..The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.How often to you fight 7+ creatures that are standing 20+' away from each other?
Because that is how many you need to fight for Horrid Wilting to deal more than Meteor Swarm. (They are about equal at around 6).
I mean, yea, it's a better spell in certain circumstances. You need to destroy an army of Ents, go Horrid Wilting. But most of the time, Meteor Swam is better.
As noted before, none of the various APs I've run have had a situation where this is true at high levels.
Most high level encounters are against 1-5 foes in large arenas designed to allow high level movement modes such as flight or teleportation to shine.
Your "80-90%" figure is not really supportable.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wilting is the best choice 80-90% time though. If I don't know the situation you have to go with Wilting because it's the better spell. Meteor Swarm is a one trick pony.
Swarm is a 4 trick pony. And burst 10' can get 2 enemies standing 20' apart.
So from 1-5 enemy groups, swarm is better. Which is going to be the majority of battles.
And yea, damage types. Wilting does not work against undead armies.
Wilting is the best choice 80-90% time though. If I don't know the situation you have to go with Wilting because it's the better spell. Meteor Swarm is a one trick pony.At which point you've made our case. There are some scenarios where Horrid Wilting has advantages, but in any scenario where you're fighting a limited number of foes in the open Meteor Swarm is strictly better.Meteor Swarm is best against fighting a few high level baddies in a very wide open area. It seems like most of the other times I would go with Wilting, especially in dungeons, fighting large armies, in urban areas where you can't nuke the town. etc..The area of effect of this spell is the big problem. None of those spells can match the amount of feet this spell covers. 55 damage over a 500 foot radius(1,000 feet diameter) Meteor Swarm only does 82 to those in the 4 10 foot-center with 49 damage in the rest of the blast. Meteor swarm will only do 320 feet by 80 or 160 by 160, etc.. You get the drift. On top of all of this you can choose the targets, unlike Meteor Swarm and Eclipse Burst. It just seems too good.How often to you fight 7+ creatures that are standing 20+' away from each other?
Because that is how many you need to fight for Horrid Wilting to deal more than Meteor Swarm. (They are about equal at around 6).
I mean, yea, it's a better spell in certain circumstances. You need to destroy an army of Ents, go Horrid Wilting. But most of the time, Meteor Swam is better.
As noted before, none of the various APs I've run have had a situation where this is true at high levels.
Most high level encounters are against 1-5 foes in large arenas designed to allow high level movement modes such as flight or teleportation to shine.
Your "80-90%" figure is not really supportable.
Why would the high level encounters be in the open? Most BBEGs and high level intelligent monsters are going to be in castles, caverns, or areas where they are protected.
Why would the high level encounters be in the open? Most BBEGs and high level intelligent monsters are going to be in castles, caverns, or areas where they are protected.
So... in tight places all bunched together?
Not 7 of them each standing 50' apart?
Wilting is the best choice 80-90% time though. If I don't know the situation you have to go with Wilting because it's the better spell. Meteor Swarm is a one trick pony.Swarm is a 4 trick pony. And burst 10' can get 2 enemies standing 20' apart.
So from 1-5 enemy groups, swarm is better. Which is going to be the majority of battles.
And yea, damage types. Wilting does not work against undead armies.
Depends. Are those enemy groups in a dungeon? Undead armies and golems won't be affected by Wilting. That's true. However, there are a lot of resistances against fire that only the bludgeon effect of Swarm would work.
Why would the high level encounters be in the open? Most BBEGs and high level intelligent monsters are going to be in castles, caverns, or areas where they are protected.So... in tight places all bunched together?
Not 7 of them each standing 50' apart?
Well, it has a point saying that meteor swarm would be a little dangerous or even unavailable in specific contexts.
The castle rubbles might fall on your party, or simply kill people on the lower floors. Or even strike some of the towers on their way to your targets.
As for a cavern, it would be probably impossible to conjure meteors to begin with ( as it would be unsafe to cast earthquake).
Except that the spell doesn't cause any of those complications, per the rules.
I get that those complications make sense, but they're somewhat irrelevant when discussing whether the rules for two comparable spells warrant errata.
Meteor swarm is a spell that by the rules deals damage to creatures. Other effects can be discounted for comparison, as they're only there if a GM adds them outside the context of the actual rules... which id reccomend not doing, since such additions are generally against the players.
I"m beginning to think maybe having both the area of effect and the ability to target who you want with Wilting that's the problem. If you take away one of the other it's a lot more fair.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I"m beginning to think maybe having both the area of effect and the ability to target who you want with Wilting that's the problem. If you take away one of the other it's a lot more fair.
You can do whatever you like in your home game, of course.
But I definitely think that you're creating an issue thats not there.
Horrid Wilting is a perfectly excellent 8th level nuke, but it has significant drawbacks compared to Meteor Swarm in a large number of situations. It has advantages in others.
Neither is out of balance with the other...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I"m beginning to think maybe having both the area of effect and the ability to target who you want with Wilting that's the problem. If you take away one of the other it's a lot more fair.
Any you pay for that by dealing 1/3 less damage.
I"m beginning to think maybe having both the area of effect and the ability to target who you want with Wilting that's the problem. If you take away one of the other it's a lot more fair.You can do whatever you like in your home game, of course.
But I definitely think that you're creating an issue thats not there.
Horrid Wilting is a perfectly excellent 8th level nuke, but it has significant drawbacks compared to Meteor Swarm in a large number of situations. It has advantages in others.
Neither is out of balance with the other...
Here's the problem that I have:
Wilting has a 500' radius
Meteor Swarm, if you put them together, has roughly an 80' radius.
Wilting does 55 points damage
Meteor Swarm does 49 points damage, except for the inner radius that gives 82
Here's the most important thing- Wilting can target, Swarm can't.
Negatives- Wilting can't affect the undead or unliving objects.
Swarm can't be used in most urban and dungeon areas.
I just can't see how they're balanced. Wilting has a few disadvantages that Swarm doesn't but it still looks significantly better. Swarm's a 9th level spell and should be better but it isn't.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, you deal nearly double the damage to a single target with Meteor Swarm. So that's a clear thing it's better at.
Sure, Horrid Wilting can target any number of creatures in 500 feet that you have line of effect to, but it's really not going to be so common that you gave an obscenely large number of enemies that you really need to kill.
Someone already did the analysis above, and said you need 7 targets for horrid wilting to deal as much damage as meteor swarm.
Honestly, I'd rarely consider horrid wilting worth bothering with since it does so little damage to each individual target, and against an on level target you're going to 25% or less of their health.
It's really not that good IMO.
Not to rank it above Meteor Swarm.
They both do different things, and are different enough that I feel like it's not a problem.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Here's the problem that I have:Wilting has a 500' radius
Meteor Swarm, if you put them together, has roughly an 80' radius.
That's not really how the game generally works. That 500' radius is going to be full of empty space and terrain features, unless as previously noted, you're just trying to go all Razmir on a town full of low level commoners who aren't really worth any experience to announce your transition to super villain. The meteors are 4 separate, higher-damage effects targeted within the same area that horrid wilting covers; they won't have that wasted space that horrid wilting has because they're going right where you want them. Also, this is a game that has things like encounter building guidelines, so the likelihood of you ever being in a position where horrid wilting is legitimately stronger is very slim, especially when you start factoring in the fact that the kinds of creatures horrid wilting just won't work on (many types of elementals, undead, a variety of outsiders, most constructs, and some who are either arguably or definitely partially immune, like elananxs) significantly outnumber the creatures that will be partially or entirely resistant to meteor swarm.
Moreover, if you check the targeting rules on page 455, you need to be able to detect a creature to target it; odds are pretty good you won't be aware of everything within horrid wilting's affected area. For example, if a living necromancer was invisibly commanding a horde of undead, horrid wilting could miss him entirely while a meteor directed at the phalanx of undead he's marching with will obliterate him regardless of whether or not you know he's there. Needing to target creatures is as much a limitation as it is a benefit.
Negatives- Wilting can't affect the undead or unliving objects.
As noted above, the list is actually quite a bit bigger than this. It doesn't affect undead or creatures whose bodies contain no significant moisture which a GM would be well within their rights to ascribe to arbiters, kolyaruts, pleromas, cassisians, balisses, lantern archons, elananxs, air elementals, fire elementals, earth elementals, djinni, efreeti, so on and so forth.
Swarm can't be used in most urban and dungeon areas.
This seems to be a restriction that exists largely in your view of how the spell works rather than in how the rules say it works. Certainly you don't want to drop a meteor that will kill an innocent bystander, but nothing is stopping you from using it in a dungeon, building, or wherever you want. Meteor swarm says "You call down four meteors that explode in a fiery blast. Each meteor deals 6d10 bludgeoning damage to any creatures in the 10-foot burst at the center of its area of effect before exploding, dealing 14d6 fire damage to any creatures in its 40-foot burst. The meteors' central 10-foot bursts can't overlap, and a creature takes the same amount of fire damage no matter how many overlapping explosions it's caught in. The saving throw applies to both the bludgeoning and the fire damage."
That's all it does. Anything about it crashing into dungeon ceilings or not reaching villains inside of castles is something being made up that doesn't conform to the rules of the effect. You're not literally pulling meteors out of space; it's an evocation effect. As noted on page 298 "Evocations capture magical energy and then shape it to harm your foes or protect your allies." You're shaping magical energy into meteors and then dropping it on your enemies, not pulling a meteor that was cruising through space down to earth.
Well, you deal nearly double the damage to a single target with Meteor Swarm. So that's a clear thing it's better at.
Someone already did the analysis above, and said you need 7 targets for horrid wilting to deal as much damage as meteor swarm.
Honestly, I'd rarely consider horrid wilting worth bothering with since it does so little damage to each individual target, and against an on level target you're going to 25% or less of their health.
It's really not that good IMO.
Not to rank it above Meteor Swarm.
They both do different things, and are different enough that I feel like it's not a problem.
Actually, the damage is 50% more and that's only for the inner radius. Meteor Swarm in fact does less than Horrid Wilting if you're not getting the bludgeoning damage. The adventurer can't use Meteor Swarm a lot of the time because you can't choose targets. With Wilting you can use it nearly anywhere.
hat's all it does. Anything about it crashing into dungeon ceilings or not reaching villains inside of castles is something being made up that doesn't conform to the rules of the effect. You're not literally pulling meteors out of space; it's an evocation effect.[
The reason why you can't use Swarm in a dungeon most of the time is the size of effect and cramped space. Most encounters are close. If I have 4 enemies before me in the dungeon I can cast Wilting but you can't use Swarm without hurting you, your comrades, or most importantly, their treasure that you need to take.:) You can't use it in town unless you want to kill innocents either.
Actually, the damage is 50% more and that's only for the inner radius. Meteor Swarm in fact does less than Horrid Wilting if you're not getting the bludgeoning damage. The adventurer can't use Meteor Swarm a lot of the time because you can't choose targets. With Wilting you can use it nearly anywhere.
That is still 4 targets.
How many enemies do you expect to face?
Actually, the damage is 50% more and that's only for the inner radius. Meteor Swarm in fact does less than Horrid Wilting if you're not getting the bludgeoning damage. The adventurer can't use Meteor Swarm a lot of the time because you can't choose targets. With Wilting you can use it nearly anywhere.That is still 4 targets.
How many enemies do you expect to face?
I don't know. That's why I'm bringing Wilting with me. ;)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The reason why you can't use Swarm in a dungeon most is the size of effect and cramped space. Most encounters are close. If I have 4 enemies before me in the dungeon I can cast Wilting but you can't use Swarm without hurting you, your comrades, or most importantly, their treasure that you need to take.:) You can't use it in town unless you want to kill innocents either.
Incorrect. Read meteor swarm again-
"Each meteor deals 6d10 bludgeoning damage to any creatures in the 10-foot burst at the center of its area of effect before exploding, dealing 14d6 fire damage to any creatures in its 40-foot burst. The meteors' central 10-foot bursts can't overlap, and a creature takes the same amount of fire damage no matter how many overlapping explosions it's caught in."Meteor swarm will never damage the treasure because it only affects creatures. And you can drop the meteors wherever you want, as long as the central 10-foot bursts don't overlap; you can lob some meteors into the corner, down the hallway you just came through, etc. very easily (and that's before getting into why you're even using a wide-range AoE spell if you're only fighting 4 enemies to begin with). Yeah, you'd be "wasting" those meteors, but you're also wasting all that potentially affected area from horrid wilting. The upside to meteor swarm is that you might get lucky with some of those tossed aside meteors and damage an invisible enemy that horrid wilting might not have affected at all.
And if you want to cast meteor swarm in town, don't target your meteors at areas where they'll hit innocent bystanders. Detonate them in the air, the middle of large groups of enemies, etc. Just like there are dozens of creatures at all kinds of levels who won't be affected by horrid wilting at all, there are situations where meteor swarm won't be the right tool for the job. A wise caster will probably try to have both plus some spells with a bit more finesse besides.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Horrid Wilting is a nice spell, but it's primarily valuable in situations where you're dealing with a huge number of enemies... which isn't really a normal circumstance in Pathfinder.
It has really good targeting, but does significantly less damage than Meteor Swarm, even when heigthened.
IDK that seems like a trade off to me. That's fine.
The reason why you can't use Swarm in a dungeon most is the size of effect and cramped space. Most encounters are close. If I have 4 enemies before me in the dungeon I can cast Wilting but you can't use Swarm without hurting you, your comrades, or most importantly, their treasure that you need to take.:) You can't use it in town unless you want to kill innocents either.
Incorrect. Read meteor swarm again-
"Each meteor deals 6d10 bludgeoning damage to any creatures in the 10-foot burst at the center of its area of effect before exploding, dealing 14d6 fire damage to any creatures in its 40-foot burst. The meteors' central 10-foot bursts can't overlap, and a creature takes the same amount of fire damage no matter how many overlapping explosions it's caught in."Meteor swarm will never damage the treasure because it only affects creatures. And you can drop the meteors wherever you want, as long as the central 10-foot bursts don't overlap; you can lob some meteors into the corner, down the hallway you just came through, etc. very easily (and that's before getting into why you're even using a wide-range AoE spell if you're only fighting 4 enemies to begin with). Yeah, you'd be "wasting" those meteors, but you're also wasting all that potentially affected area from horrid wilting. The upside to meteor swarm is that you might get lucky with some of those tossed aside meteors and damage an invisible enemy that horrid wilting might not have affected at all.
And if you want to cast meteor swarm in town, don't target your meteors at areas where they'll hit innocent bystanders. Detonate them in the air, the middle of large groups of enemies, etc. Just like there are dozens of creatures at all kinds of levels who won't be affected by horrid wilting at all, there are situations where meteor swarm won't be the right tool for the job. A wise caster will probably try to have both plus some spells with a bit more...
I'm using a wide area AoE in this case because I want to do good damage and choose my targets.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm using a wide area AoE in this case because I want to do good damage and choose my targets.
Right, but if it's a wide open square, then meteor swarm does more damage and can still be strategically positioned within the area; it's not going to be at much of a disadvantage unless the enemies are taking hostages. If the enemies are blending in with the crowd you might not be able to target them with horrid wilting at all and neither it nor meteor swarm are a good choice.
If it's a crowded square with walls, carts, alleys, etc., then horrid wilting only works on enemies you've detected. An enemy wizard who turned invisible before Sneaking away would be "immune" to horrid wilting, as would be any undetected rogues, thieves, assassins, etc. hiding in wait. With meteor swarm you could still assume with some certainty that the aforementioned wizard is within 30 feet of the last place you saw them and drop a meteor, still damaging them.
The point isn't really that one of these is better than the other, but that they're both very comparable with significant strengths and weaknesses. Horrid wilting doesn't work on creatures you don't know are there, undead, constructs, 75% of all elementals, a variety of outsiders, etc., but it does let you target pretty precisely in a wide area against creatures who don't fall into an unaffected category. Meteor swarm does more damage, can affect a wider array of creatures, and can still damage enemies you can't detect, but it's targeting is in 40-foot bursts and it's harder (not impossible) to leverage in tight spaces or combats where the allies and enemies are mixed together. It's very worth having both of these spells memorized for the situations where one will be more efficient/useful than the other, which is basically what you want to see.
Sometimes dealing a bit of damage to your party in order to absolutely nuke the enemy force is absolutely the right thing to do. Meteor Swarm has a one-up on Fireball in that at least you can make sure your allies are not taking the big bludgeoning damage hit on top of the fire (sure does seem likely that they'll be caught in the fire damage, though... Sucks to suck if you have a high level Wizard or Sorcerer in your party and you don't have a Ring of Fire Protection though, amirite?).
On a completely different note, I find threads like this fascinating as it's a window into how different groups use the rules and play. If area or splash damage broke equipment, that would certainly change the way you go about things.
I myself never give pristine armor to a party if they loot it off of a dead body. It's always broken armor, on account of the fighter drove their axe through the armor and killed the creature inside...
...though I do stop short of breaking the armor of a PC who gets the Dying condition...
Speaking of targeting creatures only, is there any instance of a spell specified to target both creatures and non-creatures (like objects)?
Speaking of targeting creatures only, is there any instance of a spell specified to target both creatures and non-creatures (like objects)?
eclipse burst
A globe of freezing darkness explodes in the area, dealing 8d10 cold damage to creatures and objects in the area, plus 8d4 additional negative damage to living creatures. Creatures and objects in the area must attempt a Reflex save.