Just rebuilt my rogue as an eldtrich trickster, and I'm trying to figure out the spells. First off, do I get anything other than the Dedication for free? Secondly if I take the next tier up (Basic), do I get more than one spell per day to cast of each level? Or do I get 2 1st level spells at 6th when I get my first 2nd level spell? I'm not quite sure if I'm reading this correctly.
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The Racket itself only gives you the dedication feat, which gives you a pair of cantrips and Trained proficiency when casting.
Going forward, you only get what the actual archetype feats give you:
Cantrip Expansion (Feat 04): Each of the caster classes offers this 2nd level feat, which adds two cantrip slots (You actually take an Archetype feat that lets you take this level 2 class feat).
Basic Spellcasting Feat (Feat 04): One 1st level slot, one 2nd level slot, and one 3rd level slot
Breadth (Feat 08): This feat gives you one addition spell slot of each level you can cast except for your top two spell levels
Expert Spellcasting Feat (Feat 12): Expert proficiency when casting, one 4th level slot, one 5th level slot, and one 6th level slot
Master Spellcasting Feat (Feat 18): Master proficieny when casting, one 7th level slot, and one 8th level slot.
So, you don't really get a lot of spells from a caster archetype, and very few actually work with Sneak Attack.
It's really not good.
Better if going Eldritch Archer tbh.
The only route for this is expecting to use attack Cantrips w/ Sneak Attack, so you'll need help making enemies flat-footed (at range) or need to go in to melee to cast while flanking (which will be deadly vs. opponents with AoOs). 4th level Invisibility is likely your best friend, though regular use of that will have to wait awhile.
And your proficiency will be behind a regular caster whose spell attack bonus is usually behind a ranged martial's ranged attack bonus (due to lack of item bonus to attack).
So um, yeah, not that good unless you're facing a lot of enemies with Weaknesses you can exploit for extra damage. Though you can get a variety of buffs and spell utility, the number of uses is minimal until the highest levels, where it's still limited enough to need other options too.
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Tbh, eldrich(arcane) trickster always were specialized in utility spells, that helped him greatly in "social" situations. Thievery, spying, sabotage, etc.
In combat magic also (used to be) supported him with utility spells like (improved) invisibility.
They never meant to be "better arcane artillery".
Except the PF1 version had much more magic available, both in slots and in the way wands (et al) worked. It was a legit 2/3 caster (as opposed to whatever you'd call an MCD caster in PF2, ramps up to 1/3?)*
With touch spells or ranged touch spells, they could count on contributing in combat (even more so if they could get that Sneak damage).
Hopefully nobody's thinking in terms of artillery here, but generally one imagines more than Cantrips and a modest set of limited use tricks. I guess once the Staves, Wands, & Scrolls are factored in, maybe there's more significance to the Racket. But it seems a Gnome or Elf w/ some Ancestry Cantrips could do nearly as well, and choose a better Racket.
*Not that I mind that, since the Rogue chassis remains at nearly full ability.
It's probably better to be a master mind rogue with a wizard dedication at 2nd level. That way you can render an enemy flatfooted with your recall knowledge. You do miss out on spell casting till level 2, and sneak attack with spells till level 4 though. Your first 6 levels of feats might be:
1st: whatever, maybe nimble dodge
2nd: wizard or witch dedication
4th: magical trickster
6th: basic spell casting
Then you can consider various options:
8th: rogue feat or enhanced familiar (if witch) or extra cantrips
9th ancestry (if human or halfling): extra spell casting archetype (witch or wizard)
10th: rogue feat or spell casting breadth or basic spell casting for new archetype.
12th: expert spell casting
14th: rogue feat or expert spell casting for new archetype
16th: rogue feat
18th: master spell casting
20th: rogue feat
I just realised that you hide only gives flat footed to Strikes.
But feint + produce flames will work.
Also, nothing stops you from just stabbing someone and using the cantrip for utility. Ghost sound to distract some guards while you sneak pastm
And as you level, you can get animate dead to get a flanking partner. Or true strike to help get a crit.
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A Dread Striker could work, it's all attacks, not just Strikes, especially for the guy upthread suggesting using a Bard. Though the composition isn't until 12th, all nearby enemies susceptible to fear would be flat-footed to your spell attacks.
And Charisma works best IMO because of innate spells.
Get Electric Arc (or another save Cantrip) early, then pick up the spell-attack Cantrips for Magical Trickster later. Of course you're fairly far behind for Bard (and the proficiency you want from it) if you take Dread Striker too, so I'm not sure I'd try for all this (not at the expense of all those beautiful Rogue feats).
Might need to take that Racket so then after Magical Trickster (2nd) and Dread Striker (4th) get the spells (6th), Breadth (8th), Dirge (12th), spells II (14th), spells III (18th). Leaves some room for Rogue feats, though you could maybe pick up some more Cantrips. Your proficiency is behind a normal caster's, yet Frightened helps and you'll get plenty of Sneak Attack damage stacked on top. Before Dirge, Demoralize & Surprise Attack should work on most creatures, with Electric Arc for when it doesn't.
I'd go Gnome for the Str. dump and the access to Ancestry Cantrips, so you could begin with several damage types. It's not the best spells build, but you're also getting all those Rogue skills & skill feats on top.
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Yeah, I'm going utility on her. I have all of two attack spells, and with my ancestry getting a charm person 1/day. It's less useful that 1st Ed Arcane Trickster, but for the particular character, it works well. Lots of scrolls and eventually wands.
id never waste my actions on as a non spell caster on a cantrip unless its via eldritch shot currently the way the math works in this game.
at least with a caster base trying to make a martial attack you only use up one action.
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The only route for this is expecting to use attack Cantrips w/ Sneak Attack, so you'll need help making enemies flat-footed (at range) or need to go in to melee to cast while flanking (which will be deadly vs. opponents with AoOs). 4th level Invisibility is likely your best friend, though regular use of that will have to wait awhile.
Sneak attack with spells isn't great. Really, Eldritch Trickster is best viewed as an alternative to taking the normal multiclass Dedication feat as one of your Rogue Class feats at Level 2. Basically, all you're doing is trading your "racket" ability (Thief Dex for Damage, Ruffian Medium Armor and sneak attack with Simple Weapons, etc.) for a free Multiclass Spellcaster Dedication Feat and getting it at Level 1. The Magical Trickster feat is in my mind irrelevant as I wouldn't even bother taking it as I wouldn't build the character around using spells to sneak attack.
You'd probably use your spells for buffing, utility and the occasional attack (ranged, or specialty - like using Produce Flame to set something on fire).
The only route for this is expecting to use attack Cantrips w/ Sneak Attack, so you'll need help making enemies flat-footed (at range) or need to go in to melee to cast while flanking (which will be deadly vs. opponents with AoOs). 4th level Invisibility is likely your best friend, though regular use of that will have to wait awhile.Sneak attack with spells isn't great. Really, Eldritch Trickster is best viewed as an alternative to taking the normal multiclass Dedication feat as one of your Rogue Class feats at Level 2. Basically, all you're doing is trading your "racket" ability (Thief Dex for Damage, Ruffian Medium Armor and sneak attack with Simple Weapons, etc.) for a free Multiclass Spellcaster Dedication Feat and getting it at Level 1. The Magical Trickster feat is in my mind irrelevant as I wouldn't even bother taking it as I wouldn't build the character around using spells to sneak attack.
You'd probably use your spells for buffing, utility and the occasional attack (ranged, or specialty - like using Produce Flame to set something on fire).
Precisely what I'm doing. Her attack spells are Ray of Frost and Shocking Grasp. And most of the time the 1st level spell will be Comp Languages or Longstrider. 2nd level so far is Invis or Darkvision. I expect to have no other attack spells, maybe scrolls or wands. Utility and personal spells all the way.
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Precisely what I'm doing. Her attack spells are Ray of Frost and Shocking Grasp. And most of the time the 1st level spell will be Comp Languages or Longstrider. 2nd level so far is Invis or Darkvision. I expect to have no other attack spells, maybe scrolls or wands. Utility and personal spells all the way.
Don't forget heightening. Take longstrider as a Level 2 spell and it lasts 8 hours. Take Darkvision as a level 5 spell and it lasts until the next time you prepare spells. Take invisibility as a level 4 spell and it only lasts 1 minute, but you can attack and not lose it.
Precisely what I'm doing. Her attack spells are Ray of Frost and Shocking Grasp. And most of the time the 1st level spell will be Comp Languages or Longstrider. 2nd level so far is Invis or Darkvision. I expect to have no other attack spells, maybe scrolls or wands. Utility and personal spells all the way.Don't forget heightening. Take longstrider as a Level 2 spell and it lasts 8 hours. Take Darkvision as a level 5 spell and it lasts until the next time you prepare spells. Take invisibility as a level 4 spell and it only lasts 1 minute, but you can attack and not lose it.
Yep. And I bought a staff today. Sure, it's a crappy staff of fire, but gives me some options. And since I can get a free scroll each adventure, I still get some AoE spells.
I'm thinking that Witch, for the Shield cantrip and the familiar, or Bard for the Shield cantrip and martial weapons, is the way I would go.