So are mechs technically this game's version of mythic?


Mech

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"CR: Mechs are powerful. PCs that are operating mechs appropriate for their level have an Average Party Level 3 levels higher than normal. This allows them to overcome stronger threats as a result, with a few considerations"

Because I like the idea that in scifi fantasy setting, the way pcs fight cr 26-30 foes isn't by becoming borderline demigods but by science and mecha :D


I don't think so...

When running a mythic campaign in Pathfinder, you needed all players to be mythic, as well as the encounters.

Mechs are just vehicles, or more powerful items. You don't need to give mechs to your opponents, except when you want to :P


That and you can have your players steal a mech, get into a mech fight, then force them to abandon it and continue the campaign with normal gear.


Garretmander wrote:
That and you can have your players steal a mech, get into a mech fight, then force them to abandon it and continue the campaign with normal gear.

Given their size it is something you can let them have fun with in outdoor areas but if your objective is inside a building/base/tunnels normal adventuring locations your mecha ain't going to fit and you have to hoof it on foot.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
JiCi wrote:

I don't think so...

When running a mythic campaign in Pathfinder, you needed all players to be mythic, as well as the encounters.

Mechs are just vehicles, or more powerful items. You don't need to give mechs to your opponents, except when you want to :P

To clarify, I meant in sense of them allowing PCs to fight encounters that would normally be way too powerful for them to fight.

Whether its innate power up or special type of equipment or vehicle, its still a subsystem that allows you to do that.


CorvusMask wrote:
JiCi wrote:

I don't think so...

When running a mythic campaign in Pathfinder, you needed all players to be mythic, as well as the encounters.

Mechs are just vehicles, or more powerful items. You don't need to give mechs to your opponents, except when you want to :P

To clarify, I meant in sense of them allowing PCs to fight encounters that would normally be way too powerful for them to fight.

Whether its innate power up or special type of equipment or vehicle, its still a subsystem that allows you to do that.

Yes it is that. Bonus: unlike mythic, you can take it away from them without too many complaints.


CorvusMask wrote:
JiCi wrote:

I don't think so...

When running a mythic campaign in Pathfinder, you needed all players to be mythic, as well as the encounters.

Mechs are just vehicles, or more powerful items. You don't need to give mechs to your opponents, except when you want to :P

To clarify, I meant in sense of them allowing PCs to fight encounters that would normally be way too powerful for them to fight.

Whether its innate power up or special type of equipment or vehicle, its still a subsystem that allows you to do that.

Well, mechs are like vehicles and starships. Mechs also scale with levels and can cost a LOT of credits to upgrade, so it doesn't look like a broken item. Finally, it's only +3 for encounter levels, it's not that much ;)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
JiCi wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
JiCi wrote:

I don't think so...

When running a mythic campaign in Pathfinder, you needed all players to be mythic, as well as the encounters.

Mechs are just vehicles, or more powerful items. You don't need to give mechs to your opponents, except when you want to :P

To clarify, I meant in sense of them allowing PCs to fight encounters that would normally be way too powerful for them to fight.

Whether its innate power up or special type of equipment or vehicle, its still a subsystem that allows you to do that.

Well, mechs are like vehicles and starships. Mechs also scale with levels and can cost a LOT of credits to upgrade, so it doesn't look like a broken item. Finally, it's only +3 for encounter levels, it's not that much ;)

Hey I'm using that as positive thing ;p Also +3 encounter levels would be enough. That would make CR 23 average difficulty, 24 challenging, 25 Hard and 26 epic. While that might not be enough to justify CR 26-30 monsters depending on how you think of it, it would still be helpful in making CR 21-25 more easier to use. Like CR 24 and 25 are rulewise "impossible" encounters, so mech system allows them at least be used in combat normally. While I'm not sure if 4 levels if "Impossible" foes would be wroth it, it would still make CR 26 for weaker demigod level foes be possible in starfinder.

Like another good thing about this is that I don't think mythic's "the pcs are super mega special super duper heroes who can punch enemies to orbit" really fit Starfinder's setting and themes as well. Like sure mythic in Pathfinder also was change of theme, but I think mythic heroes fit fantasy easier than scifi.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I look sadly at Thor Ragnarok style adventures through a rainspattered starship window.

Sure... Science Fantasy doesn't need Mythic... sure...

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I look sadly at Thor Ragnarok style adventures through a rainspattered starship window.

Sure... Science Fantasy doesn't need Mythic... sure...

Just saying, it would feel weird in setting where gods are considered less relevant to play a character who could be worshiped by entire Absalom Station at end of campaign ;p


Who said the gods were less relevant in the setting?


The setting.

Wayfinders

Well, other than Triune. Without them, you would just now be getting rules for ways to move around between planets and systems

Wayfinders

Oh, and Abadar, who has a major corporation, Asmodeus, who has taken up book burning as a full time pastime, and Iomedae, who has some of the fanciest ships around. Modern human biases aside, the gods are as relevant as the players and GM decide they are.


Triune gifted the drift engine, or something, and... that was it.

Abadarcorp yeah.

But other than a few aesthetics here and there I haven't seen anything to do with Asmodeus or Iomedae.


Give them more time.

Dead Suns had a write up about The Devourer.
Dawn of Flame had Sarenrae.
Attack of the Swarm! had Hylax.

This is the same setup for the 1e APs when they began to introduce the Golarion gods.

A Gods & Monsters book is bound to show up later.


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Setting aside the absurdity of "One of the gods literally created the FTL mechanism that makes the entire setting possible" being treated as some kind of sidebar, as opposed to 'The entire setting literally revolves around this one god and what they both did and are still doing'. . .

-Iomedae is the patron of all the refugees of Lost Golarion, who are a not insignificant cultural force in the setting. Also, one of the two giant "might as well be a nation state" militant orders, the Knights of Golarion? Basically hers.

-Hylax is the patron of multiple entire civilizations of insect life, including specifically the Shirren, one of the primary PC races.

-Sarenrae's followers are the dominant governmental and social force in the sun and its habitats.

-Yaraesa is one of the primary gods of the Lashunta, probably one of the top five dominant civilizations in the Pact Worlds. And also is the Goddess of Science in a sci-fi setting. Seriously.

-Desna is the goddess of "traveling places by the stars" and "punching eldritch abominations in the face", in an era where everyone is traveling the stars and there are tons of eldritch abominations needing punching.

-Abadar literally runs the biggest megacorporation in the entire setting, AbadarCorp, as a combination business and church.

-Talavet is the primary deity of the Kasatha, one of the main PC races ( if, admittedly, somewhat iffy in total population count, ahem )

-Pharasma is the Goddess of Death. People still die. Their souls still get judged and sent to various extra planar fates.

-Triune is, as I mentioned, literally the entire reason the setting can exist. Not only did she/they create FTL, and presumably the entire plane by which FTL functions, but their ongoing activity in creating drift beacons is how it continues to expand in function. Oh, and Triune is also the primary deity of the Anacites, who are only probably the single most powerful civilization in the setting that isn't a multi-system empire, what with being Non-Evil Borg.

-Besmara is the Goddess of Space Pirates. There are tons of space pirates. They worship her, explicitly.

-Oras is the God of Mad Science. There is a lot of mad science in the setting. Also an entire network of mini-god trees doing Avatar style biotech stuff.

-Damoritosh is the dominant religion of the entire Veskarium, a multisystem empire. Not just in that he is the most commonly worshipped, but that pretty much the entire culture is designed to revolve around Damoritosh's ideals and doctrines.

-Lao Shu Po is the primary patron deity of the Ysoki, one of the most common species in the setting and a primary PC race.

-Nyarlathotep pretty much runs Aucturn, an entire terrifying eldritch horror planet, and is the most active/comprehensible of the outer horror deities in a setting where outer horror deities are much more prominent and active.

That's just the really big and obvious cases, where the deities explicitly have dominion over either big societal elements like major interstellar organizations or planetary societies, or else domains of existence with really obvious importance in sci-fi space opera life. Most of the primary deities I didn't mention probably have similar scope, they just tend to be new and not have as much stuff written for them yet. And that's excluding *other* deities, who are "not major deities" in the sense of getting to be part of the Core 20, yet still have things like giant militant orders and entire planetary societies under their control ( *coughAsmodeuscough* ).

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I mean yeah they exist and have influence. But devs and setting themselves treats them as less important plot wise, they've stated that as reason why god book is less likely in starfinder than in pathfinder(since they don't have as much mechanical effects either)

Like I said, having literal quasi deities as pcs would feel weirder in comparison unless they suddenly want to make starfinder more into different type of scifi setting.


Metaphysician wrote:
Setting aside the absurdity of "One of the gods literally created the FTL mechanism that makes the entire setting possible" being treated as some kind of sidebar, as opposed to 'The entire setting literally revolves around this one god and what they both did and are still doing'. . .

Yes, the campaign revolves around Drift travel, it does not revolve around Triune or Triune priests, you don't need or invoke either when Drifting.

Outside of the backstory for the setting mentioning them gifting the drive how else or often are they involved?

I'm not saying the gods don't exist, they're just not as relevant in SF as they are in PF.

Pharasma is the goddess of death. Okay. How often is she or her priests actually relevant or show up? From the meta viewpoint she and Triune are relevant to the setting, but from a campaign standpoint they're not even though death and drift are prevalent.


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The gods are as relevant in your SF campaign as much as you want them to be.

In Dead Suns,
- you visit a fallen temple to Ibra in book 2.
- you meet a priest of Talavet in book 4.
- the god-realm of Triune is in book 4, in a back article.
- the divine servitors of the Devourer is encountered in book 5 and another one is stated up in book 6.

In Attack of the Swarm!, Hylax plays a major role in the AP.

In Dawn of Flame, the big bad's motivations is to become a god.

So the gods play as much of a major role in the APs as much as they did so in 1e Golarion APs. As much as the DM wants them to be involved.


Counterpoint to the god discussion, Thor gets captured and forced to fight in an arena. In this setting, you can have mythic characters also not be treated as gods. Maybe I want to kick a space rock at a ship and other crazy stuff.

On the actual topic of the thread, I don't think mythic and mechs are that comparable. They are both big boosts in power and capability, but the mechs don't reflect the actual character's skills quite as much as mythic does.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm still having pipe realm of CR 26-30 monsters with mech rules available(hey before mech rules we had CR 24 and CR 25 despite pcs being rulewise unable to fight those, so if they did CR 27-28 to have two extra CR for mechs as well... ;D) but I do realize its unlikely that we will get even CR 26 just because of mechs since I can see why they might find idea of "CR 24/25 are impossible without mechs, but with level 20 mech CR 25 is hard difficulty" as the "max difficulty cap" appealing.

But I do hope that post mech rules we get more CR 21-24 creatures in Alien Arhchive 5 :p


Huh.... I thought these older playtests were locked!

but Mechs come out later this year, so we'll see

Scarab Sages

Zwordsman wrote:

Huh.... I thought these older playtests were locked!

but Mechs come out later this year, so we'll see

As this has been resurected and constantly hovering on my new posts check I'll give in and say . . ..

1) I agree with Albatoonoe that in a massive sci fi setting you can have super powerful mythic characters still treated as pretty much a "Yeah you're a god so what you're a puny god." because the universe is immense with a great many powerful beings and forces. Loki and Thor both were treated like this at various times. As there is a sliding scale from mortal to immortal to mythic to divine. With divisions in those categories.

2) I like the mental image of Baba Yaga piloting a mech upgraded chicken hut.


Senko wrote:
2) I like the mental image of Baba Yaga piloting a mech upgraded chicken hut.

Don't give them any idea XDD

Horizon Hunters

I had seen it on the paizo panel about the release of this book and this last blog just made me more interested in joining starfinder. I have a campaign idea in mind, but I need to know one thing beforehand (I don't know if the Mechs info came out on an old blog) are Mechs available to characters since level 1?

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