Simple quick question. Do Nets with the returning enchantment drag the entangled target? I would assume not, but I keep seeing it pop up as a good thing to put on Nets.
No, just the weapon returns to the hand that threw it. And only if that hand is in the same square as when the returning weapon was thrown. It says it is ready to use when it returns... which would not be the case if there was still something ensnared in the net.
I don't think returning would activate if you held onto the rope. The weapon remained in your hand, so there's no need for it to return. Returning also requires that you be able to catch it, a feature that would render most nets useless. And the enchantment doesn't mention returning with anything stuck onto nor within the weapon, so your returning net won't return with your target anymore than a returning dagger would.
That said, I'd let it half work. Nets are sort of garbage, and an enchantment that lets you use them once per turn is fine as a +1. Letting returning also drag an opponent without making a drag combat maneuver is a bit too much though.
You should take a pass at net vs. deflect arrows while you're working through net rules.
I don't think returning would activate if you held onto the rope. The weapon remained in your hand, so there's no need for it to return. Returning also requires that you be able to catch it, a feature that would render most nets useless. And the enchantment doesn't mention returning with anything stuck onto nor within the weapon, so your returning net won't return with your target anymore than a returning dagger would.
That said, I'd let it half work. Nets are sort of garbage, and an enchantment that lets you use them once per turn is fine as a +1. Letting returning also drag an opponent without making a drag combat maneuver is a bit too much though.
You should take a pass at net vs. deflect arrows while you're working through net rules.
Well I know Greater Distracting nets just end casters since they A have low strength and B entangled forces a concentration check making the whole thing effectively DC 25 + Spell level. Slap Impervious on that sucker and they can't cut their way out either.
Well I know Greater Distracting nets just end casters since they A have low strength and B entangled forces a concentration check making the whole thing effectively DC 25 + Spell level. Slap Impervious on that sucker and they can't cut their way out either.
That must have been a proud moment for the Grippli Rogue...
@ErichAD, Deflect Arrows requires the attack to originate from a Ranged Weapon... which the Net is in the Ranged weapon category, so what's the issue? Was there a ranged attack? Yes. Deflected.
If you can deflect every arrow fired as part of a Manyshot attack, you can probably slap a blanket out of the air, too.
The other interpretation is this.
Deflect Arrows allows you to deflect a ranged weapon so that you take no damage. Nets cause no damage, so they aren't adjusted further by deflect arrows.
The other interpretation is this.
Deflect Arrows allows you to deflect a ranged weapon so that you take no damage. Nets cause no damage, so they aren't adjusted further by deflect arrows.
But the feat does not state that it has to be an attack that is going to deal damage. It says when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon attack, you can deflect it. Once per round, no unusually large projectiles, blah blah blah.
It does say that you deflect it so that you take no damage, sure. But it isn't worded in such a way that damage being imminent is a prerequisite for you to deflect the projectiles.
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The other interpretation is this.
Deflect Arrows allows you to deflect a ranged weapon so that you take no damage. Nets cause no damage, so they aren't adjusted further by deflect arrows.
But the feat does not state that it has to be an attack that is going to deal damage. It says when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon attack, you can deflect it. Once per round, no unusually large projectiles, blah blah blah.
It does say that you deflect it so that you take no damage, sure. But it isn't worded in such a way that damage being imminent is a prerequisite for you to deflect the projectiles.
I would consider a net an unusually larger projectile
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For whatever reason, all I can think of is Kung Pow, and the guy getting pinned by a net the size of a handkerchief...
It does say that you deflect it so that you take no damage, sure. But it isn't worded in such a way that damage being imminent is a prerequisite for you to deflect the projectiles.
The feat says you deflect the attack so that you take no damage. There isn't a list of other things prevented by the deflection, only damage. So, assuming you deflected a weapon that did no damage, you wouldn't have altered the attack at all.
There's been a few faqs over the years on the topic. At first it was clarified that deflected attacks weren't treated as a miss, then later clarified that rider effects were canceled as well. But since the primary effect of the net is non-damaging, there's no clear ruling on whether or not deflecting a net does anything.
Name Violation is probably right: Treating nets as unusually large is probably the easiest solution.
Are Small nets still too unusually large for a Medium creature to deflect? I'm actually serious.
Grippli are Proficient with nets. So, naturally, they are the only ones who will use nets because nets suck and nobody is willing to spend a feat on the stupid things.
That being said, arrows are specifically called out in the feat. And arrows, themselves, are projectiles. Projectiles are objects. The feat deflects objects... not the conceptualized result of the objects hitting you (in this case, damage).
Nets are objects. Objects can be deflected by the feat.
If you are immune to nonlethal damage, and someone shoots nonlethal arrows at you... the feat doesn't care that they won't hurt you. You can still deflect them.
So now the real question is, if you take focused weapon from the fighter AWT or go warpriest does your net start doing damage?
Nets are objects. Objects can be deflected by the feat.If you are immune to nonlethal damage, and someone shoots nonlethal arrows at you... the feat doesn't care that they won't hurt you. You can still deflect them.
Right, you can deflect them. Maybe I've missed a more robust definition of deflect somewhere else in the rules, but all I can find for it is in this feat. You deflect it so it does no damage. If there's more to deflecting I appreciate being pointed toward it.
A returning net would be kinda terrible. You would throw it, entangle someone, then right before your next turn, the net would come off of them and fly back to you.
Nets are just terrible. Whether they return, or not, is irrelevant to how terrible they are.
A returning net would be kinda terrible. You would throw it, entangle someone, then right before your next turn, the net would come off of them and fly back to you.Nets are just terrible. Whether they return, or not, is irrelevant to how terrible they are.
Why are nets terrible? I've never tried to use one on a character, but entangled seems like a decent debuff...
Why are nets terrible? I've never tried to use one on a character, but entangled seems like a decent debuff...A returning net would be kinda terrible. You would throw it, entangle someone, then right before your next turn, the net would come off of them and fly back to you.Nets are just terrible. Whether they return, or not, is irrelevant to how terrible they are.
Debuffing is in general a weaker strategy in pathfinder compared to battlefield control and raw damage. Nets are a debuff item that requires attack rolls, close range, and an exotic weapon proficiency feat.
Greater distracting impervious nets are rock solid for use against humanoid level based casters. They only work on large or smaller creatures though, so the minute the huge monster comes in your investment in the net is useless.
And thus the Greater distracting and impervious rope of entanglement was invented.
So now the real question is, if you take focused weapon from the fighter AWT or go warpriest does your net start doing damage?
Well I believe Gloves of Deliquescence add damage so I don't see why not. Kind of messed up to think about, I mean your throwing an acid soaked net on someone, but anytime you use Acid is messed up.
And thus the Greater distracting and impervious rope of entanglement was invented.
You forgot to tie the other end to an Immovable Rod.
You can catch incorporeal creatures with a +1 Ghost Touch net. Since they have poor strength, they cannot easily escape.
I agree that Returning defeats the reason for a net: capture/entanglement.
Called might be better.
/cevah
If you just wanted returning, maybe "training:net adept" would be better. You aren't shooting into melee anymore, and you aren't taking the refolding penalty.